Did You See Anything Good Today? [Read First Post]
- Thread starter GilesGuthrie
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Is 'Slow, unreliable, old trash. Crap.' for the Alfa????
Is Alfa old trash?
Alfa Romeo made Ferrari and you call it crap? OK, sorry for the directness of my speech, but you are totally wrong.
Ferrari had a close association with Alfa early on, but I'm fairly sure Alfa Romeo never made Ferraris. Both Alfa and Ferrari are owned by Fiat, but I'm not sure that Alfa has a hand in Ferrari development. I could be wrong, though - I don't know much about the Alfa brand.
Either way, there's no getting around Alfa's reliability issues. Google "Alfa Romeo reliability." It's rampant.
- 9,089
- Scotland
Well.
Land Rover is owned by Ford Motor Company, but everyone uses that synonymously with "Ford," the brand. Technically it's incorrect but in my mind, it's splitting hairs. Indeed, Fiat SPA owns both Alfa and Ferrari, and the Fiat brand, but again, to me - splitting hairs.
- 23,963
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
That's a very uneducated and nieve view for someone so obsessed with cars.
Alfa may have had their reliability and build quality issues, but that's only been an ongoing thing since the early 80's. Up until this point Alfa's held the sort of high esteem that modern BMW's do these days - only with more style
- 708
I say Alfa made Ferarri, because ..... just read this.(sorry for the off-topic)
http://www.exoticcarrental.com/FerrariHistory.htm;)
http://www.exoticcarrental.com/FerrariHistory.htm;)
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
Agreed. It's also rampant for old MGs, Triumphs, Fiats, Sunbeams, Datsuns, and anything else sold between 1960 and 1972 that was NOT made in Detroit and NOT powered by a small-block V8.
So what? It doesn't invalidate their existence as cars.
If you are enslaved to reliability, then there's no reason you would understand owning a car like that one, and therefore no reason to consider owning one. But that still doesn't make them crap.
- 708
Ok , i think we should stop this conversation here, it's not going to lead anywhere. Everyone has his opinion , and every opinion is acceptable. I think old alfas were great cars, you think they were crap. Ok. I think old Bmw's (before e36)
had terribly bad handling and traction, you think exactly the opposite. We both support a car maker and this is our problem.
had terribly bad handling and traction, you think exactly the opposite. We both support a car maker and this is our problem.
- 23,963
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Did I mention slow? Old Alfas suck. They were all powered by miniscule engines ("but they handle so well!"), they don't excel at anything except having pompous owners who think their cars are Italian, and therefore special.
The picture says it all.
"All Volvo drivers are ugly dykes"
The picture says it all
- 24,344
- Midlantic Area
- GTP_Duke
Having personally driven an Alfa Spyder exactly like the one in that picture (except in red) on numerous different occasions, I'm here to tell you you're full of crap yourself, Doug. Yet again you are letting your holy paper analysis of automobilia prevent you from seeing something that is not quantified with numbers.Did I mention slow? Old Alfas suck. They were all powered by miniscule engines ("but they handle so well!"), they don't excel at anything except having pompous owners who think their cars are Italian, and therefore special.
The picture says it all.
Even though cars are the product of engineering, driving one is still an experience that goes FAR beyond the stopwatch, the g-meter, and the measuring tape. Robots do not drive cars. People drive cars and therefore there is an element of human emotion that is invovled that goes outside the absolute performance figures or service intervals.
If this wasn't true, there would be no car enthusiast forums except Consumer Reports, debating which Toyota Appliance Hybrid looked better in Retirement Gold: the Large, the Medium, the Small, or the new Xtra-small model recently released from the JDM model for the youth market.
You may not realize it yet, but some people actually enjoy tinkering with cars and view owning an old Alpha or Triumph as a hobby in itself. I have a friend with an MG that has 3 carbuerators - no, it's not a three-deuce setup; it's got one on the car, one in a box waiting to go on the car when this one breaks, and a third one waiting to get rebuilt. He swaps between them when he changes his oil. It's part of what he enjoys about owning the car.
And if you want something modern that doesn't need to be puttered with continually, consider the first-gen Miata. It makes no rational sense whatsoever: tiny, not cheap when new, slow, simple, no features to speak of. Unmitigated crap, by your standards (saved only by being relatively reliable crap). Yet it manages to perfectly capture the joy of driving a simple car with an engaging soul.
Not every car has to be a CL65 to be worthy.
- 7,153
- killermrk
- KillerMRK2
Wow, what and incredibly thick headed and piggish thing to say. They were perfectly quick little cars. They didn't need large engines like the american counterparts of the day because they didn't weigh two tons.
You just made every damn american on this board look stupid. Thanks alot.
- 3,534
- London
The coolest thing was in my rear view mirror this evening......a FERRARI ENZO!
At first I thought it was a Lambo Gallardo but the windscreen was a lot narrower. As it got closer I realized what it was. I was sooo busy staring in the mirror that i didn't realize i was doing 30 on a 50 road and the Enzo started horning(the Enzo's horn is pants btw) so i put my foot down and accidentally hit the rev limiter because i was too busy staring into the mirror watching it!
Its unbelievably low, i could hardly see it at times.
At first I thought it was a Lambo Gallardo but the windscreen was a lot narrower. As it got closer I realized what it was. I was sooo busy staring in the mirror that i didn't realize i was doing 30 on a 50 road and the Enzo started horning(the Enzo's horn is pants btw) so i put my foot down and accidentally hit the rev limiter because i was too busy staring into the mirror watching it!
Its unbelievably low, i could hardly see it at times.
- 40,801
I'd imagine something like this doesn't enough engine to make up for the fact that it plows more than a Cadilac Deville:
Also, lest ye forget, um...this. And this. And this. And this. And this. And this. And this. I could go on.
You make it sound like that only applies to Italian cars. Good show.M5Power
And perhaps they want cars to have fun in?
- 1,579
Depends on how 'good' you think a pink caddy is?
Oh, I don't think it's all that 'good', but I thought it might have been rare. I try not to post too many repeats (too many M5's or E55's, for example), so I keep looking for other stuff. And don't knock pink Cadillacs...at least, not too much.
It wasn't too bad...45 years ago....
Duke
M5Power
It was the right color, and had the MARY KAY logo right on the side, just like when I saw it at NYIAS, and the woman getting out was stereotypically Mary Kay material.
I think I'll feel a bit queer if I keep talking about pink cars that aren't from some Japanese tuner.
Duke
Nuts, isn't it? I don't want to embarrass myself and tell you how many years I've watched go by, but I've only taken cars seriously (beyond the odd Porsche or Ferrari) in the last 15 years or so. Car-spotting is something I took up only after I got my first digital camera, when they were finally good enough. That leaves me about 3-4 years of realizing what that "ugly Beetle" is. And I always used to confuse Midgets with "some old MG", which I used to not have a proper appreciation for.
But it's amazing how much you can make up for lost years with intense reading. Amazing how little! Nothing beats first hand experience, much to my regret.
Okay, then what's this:
http://www.classicmotor.co.uk/alfarom.htm
http://www.practicalclassics.co.uk/vehicle/by-id/67/
They seem to claim it was around.
M5Power
That's one way of looking at it (and given how they hold up, I can't really argue). Another way of looking at it is a car with endless amounts of "charm". They do actually drive well (when they can drive), but so do most old British roadsters. They're not fast, but that's not really the point. They feel fast, and -- more importantly -- they have feel. That's what makes a good sports car: front engine, rear drive, two seats, open top, and a joy to drive. Nothing about maintentance in that definition.
ZukashiriEdit: On the highway if you were driving on it or at the highway if you were next to it.
What?
And for something completely different:
Mercedes-Benz E55 AMG
See? How special can something be when it's everywhere? Well, okay, it's still cool, but variety is spicy...or something.
Mercedes-Benz S600
Those wheels alone do it for me.
Lexus IS300 Sportcross
Funny, Subaru tried that same hatchy-backy thing with the Impreza and it doesn't look nearly as bad as this thing. Let's hope Lexus' L/F/# plans don't turn out like their attempts at "lifestyle" vehicles.
Are my posts too long? 👍 👎 These things are like epic poems. I love hearing myself talk, but others may not.
- 2,421
- Southern California
Dude, clean your windshield.
I need to start bringing along my digital camera again, this camera phone SUCKS.
ExigeExcel
Oh, and my ten zillion posts in which I rally around the Mazda Miata, destroyed because I think a ****ty car with poor resale value is a ****ty car with poor resale value? Please.
"All Volvo drivers are ugly dykes"
Yeah, but that's true.
Duke
I love the first-gen (and ONLY gen, if you ask me) Miata. The difference being that the Miata doesn't catch fire, and the Alfa does. Daily.
MatttheTurner
I like you Matt, but you're testing my patience. I've spoken up time and time again for underpowered cars that handle well. Rather than look at what I actually said and then what I said to defend it, you looked at the people who posted above you and towed their line to look smart.
Here's the deal: I have no idea why this is an "Americans love power" issue. I never said the thing was bad because it's underpowered - I called it slow, which it is - but my main point is that it's bad because it's unreliable. I then posted a photo of an Alfa-Romeo from the height of their reliability issues. People here think I'm mad. Get a Brit in this thread and he'll tell you just how ****ty Alfas are. You drive one and parts fall off. I'm not alone in this idea; JD Power consistently ranks Alfa-Romeo among the lowest brands in its customer satisfaction surveys, and the 156, which was its most popular model for several years, was ranked one of the least-reliable cars in Europe. Remember back when I told the Greek guy to Google "Alfa Romeo reliability"? Did anyone actually do that? These are the things that pop up:
"For the third year running, Alfa Romeo has one of the lowest average mileages and some of the youngest cars in this survey, yet it continues to sit near the bottom of the reliability table.
There is little improvement on its showing in last years survey, with just 0.1% fewer claims per 100 cars. Whats more, Alfas are among the most expensive and time-consuming cars to fix when things do go wrong, with an average repair cost of £423 and an average repair time of nearly four hours.
As far as individual models go, the 156 fares better than the 147, which only just escapes inclusion on the list of the bottom 10 cars overall.
Verdict: ** Another disappointing result from Alfa." (here)
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"BUYING an Alfa Romeo 20 years ago was a decision dictated by the heart, not the head. There's no denying the sort of passion, excitement and emotion the Italian carmaker generated in the days when the baby Alfasud was the king of European hot hatches.
Like most Italian machines of its time, the Sud was a rip-snorting baby car with all the style and flair the Italians are famous for. But it was also rocked by reliability troubles and prone to rust. " (here)
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" Full of character and passion. Alfa's executive model may fall short on quality and reliability, but who cares when the drive is this good? "
4car says:
Recommended. 'A real alternative to its German rivals in all but build quality.' " (here)
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"in the final years its sales were down due to Alfa Romeo's reliability problems that plagued the company through the late 1970s and early 1980s." (here)
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That's just the first page of results, for God's sake. Google "Toyota reliability" and you get eight pages about how incredible they are. Alfa Romeo products are absolute trash. They're even trashier in the United States, where they lost dealer support and therefore easy access to parts and skilled labor in 1995. They might handle well, but you can't argue with the fact that a new Civic is going to toss one off the line, and there's no question the Alfa is going to be about fifty times more expensive to run.
Toronado
I'd reply to this, but it's missing some sort of word.
No, they want to look like posers. Why else would you buy the '80s Alfa Spider? Seriously - give me one good reason why it's better than a Miata. One reason. Just one. And "exclusivity" doesn't count because that's exactly my argument.
- 36,652
- Scotland
- GTP_daan
And that, right there, is your problem. You like/buy cars because of what thay're like on paper, on stats and specs. Cars are so much more than that. A car enthusiast buys cars with his heart making most of the decisions. If everyone bought cars with their heads, we'd all be running about in Honda Accords or somesuch.
Why did I buy the 406 coupe I have when, in every group test I read, its beaten by the BMW 328? My head was saying, "it'll be expensive to run, its French so it'll breakdown, it'll drink petrol", to which my heart replied, "but just look at it." And I'm really glad my heart won. I know that on paper the BMW would have been a better buy, but I don't drive or live on paper.
But anyway, you probably wouldn't be able to get an old Alfa Spider with an automatic, so you don't need to worry about them.
It looks nicer. Its an Alfa.
I don't expect you to understand point 2
- 23,963
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Because it's not a Miata.
Miatas are great cars, don't get me wrong, i love them. But everyone and their dog has a Miata/MX-5. The original MX-5 was a great, modernised version of the classic european sportscar of the sixties. People bought them because it reminded them of the simpler joys of motoring where high performance, teutonic reliability and luxurious interior space are irrelevant factors when tootling around enjoying the journey.
