Did You See Anything Good Today? [Read First Post]
- Thread starter GilesGuthrie
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- 23,993
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
The Alfa that Doug posted, the one that started all this fuss, was probably 40 years old. It was no worse than any normal car from that era. It's 106bhp engine won't set the world on fire these days but 40 years ago it was an M3.
- 23,993
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
You mean....
Zukashiri
...as in how does that car stand up compared to modern cars?
Well, like anything mechanical that's 40 years old, it's going to appear outdated. The motor industry would be in a sorry situation if the game hadn't moved on considerably in that period of time wouldn't it?
Like any 40 year old car it's going to need a little TLC every now and then. But i bet that unless you were stupid enough to use the car for your daily commute through the city, it would give you greater driving enjoyment than 90% of modern cars will allow.
Well, as far as I'm concerned, people buy cars for three reasons:
1. Because of their on-paper stats (90% of the world)
2. Because of their handling and drivability ("enthusiasts")
3. Because of how they look (emotional women and you)
As far as I'm concerned, if I were to buy a car as an enthusiast, I absolutely need both power and drivability. There's no way around it: there's really not that much joy in purchasing a car that's slower than every single minivan made since the fall of Communism.
daan
No problem. I don't expect you to explain it. Loving point one, by the way.
Exactly. Exclusivity. People want to say, "I have an Italian car." Pretty soon they'll have an Italian fireball. And does anyone want to respond to my comment about how unreliable the damn things are?!
Everyone here seems to want to discuss the mysterious qualities that make the '80s Alfa Spider better than a Miata (mysterious because the qualities listed were "It's an Alfa" and "it's not a Miata") but no-one's actually going to quantify this, nor are they going to discuss what happens when the thing's radiator falls off.
- 6,009
- Austin, Texas
- D-Nitrate / GTP_DNitrate
M5Power... if I may make a suggestion... stick to what you do best, and post pics of cars that you see on the streets... leave the car reviewing to others that might not be so caught up in their own personal stereotypes.
Or at least restrict your reviewing of the quality (or lack thereof) of cars in a more appropriate thread(s).
I enjoy seeing your pics of cars, but your tirade on Alfas, and stereotypical views on Alfa & Volvo owners is not only tiresome, but in my opinion, both objectionable, and wholly inappropriate... and no, I have never owned either.
Or at least restrict your reviewing of the quality (or lack thereof) of cars in a more appropriate thread(s).
I enjoy seeing your pics of cars, but your tirade on Alfas, and stereotypical views on Alfa & Volvo owners is not only tiresome, but in my opinion, both objectionable, and wholly inappropriate... and no, I have never owned either.
- 23,993
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
As far as I'm concerned, you obviously much prefere to stand outside hotels photographing cars than you actually do driving the things. If this wasn't the case then you'd realise that driving's all about feeling, communication and enjoyment, not about flat facts and figures. Car stats are fine in the playground but pretty secondary in the adult world.
Maybe it is in the US, but for Europeans at least owning an Italian car means sweet F.A. Any car can develop problems, whether its Italian, American, German or Japanese. Yes Italian cars do have a 'bit of a reputation' everyone knows this, yet Alfas, Fiats, Lancias all still sell by the bucket load. People don't care too much if they have a 10% chance of their new car braking down, they'll have it fixed on warranty.
They get it fixed at a garage - just like the MX-5 owner does when her radiator falls off.
- 36,692
- Scotland
- GTP_daan
I have an 8 year old Italian designed and built car. Its not shown any sign of spontaneously combusting yet, but I'll be sure to let you know when it inevitably does.
Alfa has history. It has heritage. It has soul. All things you cannot measure by stats and all things you don't care about. If it wasn't for the Lotus Elan, Alfa Spiders, MGs, etc, there wouldn't be an MX5. If they were so crap, why did Mazda resurrect, and bring up to date, the idea of a light, fun, RWD sports covertible?
You're measuring a 40 year old car against a new one. If the MX5 was designed 40 years ago, what would it be like now? Put an Alfa Spider up against an MX5 and it wouldn't stand a chance. But go back 40 years, (on the tight, twisty, European roads they were designed for) and its a completely different story.
Can you just explain how I'm giving stereotypes here?
CAN ONE PERSON ADDRESS THE VEHICLES' RELIABILITY ISSUE???
TheCracker
You don't know me. Don't pretend like you do. I enjoy driving more than anyone here. You're talking to someone who put 32,000 miles on a car in one calendar year despite not having a job to commute to. I like how everyone takes the holier-than-thou attitude that they're "true drivers" and that they never look at statistics before buying a car. Obviously if that were true you'd ALL be driving old Alfas: they're fashionable, and fun to drive. No statistics involved in that decision. So why aren't you guys? Hmmmmm.... daan
Let's try to grasp the concept of relevance here daan. What part of Alfa-Romeo was Peugeot?
Did you not see the ten zillion Google results on Alfa reliability, none of which were good? All right daan - since statistics don't trouble you, how about you go and purchase a car that shows it? Buy a convertible, like all other Brits - and buy a two-seater. And be sure to buy one with history. And heritage. And soul. You didn't mention "passion" but I presume you need that too.
You don't do it because statistics factor into your decisions just as much as they factor into everyone else's. You just like to say they don't.
- 9,089
- Scotland
which part? alfa engines are rather good.the only problems with alfas are the electrics
you enjoy driving better than anyone here? how do you know that? you have an 850 which isnt exactly a "drivers" car
next time you come to this thread you might wanna bend down a lil so your ego can fit through the door.....
- 23,993
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
Britain probably has the biggest (per capita) classic car scene in the world even though our weather and road conditions really don't suit them. The UK also purchases the highest percentage of convertables of any European country, even though it's dull and rains every day of the year. We love this sort of car. We don't buy them and spend thousands of hard earned Pounds on them because it make any kind of sense - we do it because we really enjoy driving something that gives a totally different experience to driving a 'normal', sensible car. Like i've already stated, nobody buys a 40 year old car to use everyday. So comparing older cars to new cars is pointless - they are bought for completely different reasons.
I've just bought a new car myself. Not a new new car but a 'recent' one. I would have loved to spend that money on something fast and unpractical, something that i would really enjoy owning and driving. Because just like yourself i really love cars, but i didn't. I need my everyday car to be practical, so i bought a big, ugly, slow car that ticks all the important, but dull, boxes. So yes, statistics do matter when you buy cars - but not all cars should be bought with this in mind.
I don't have an 850.
Okay, I'm going to give it to you folks straight. The Mazda Miata and the old Alfa Graduate handle well. But my question is, why get something that handles well when you could have something that handles well AND is fast? Take the Honda S2000 and Nissan 350Z. Those are two fantastic roadsters: impractical, fast in a straight line, and extremely rewarding in curves. And their owners don't have to come up with adjectives like "soul" and "character" to describe the deficit in their vehicles' acceleration abilities.
My main issue is this: not only is the Alfa lacking in the power department, running the quarter mile probably a bit slower than a Prius would, but it's also lacking in the mechanical dependability deparment. So not only have you got a car that's slow ("soul!") you've got a car that's apt to catch fire at any moment ("character!"). Yes, it handles well, but so do a lot of cars that are both quicker and less apt to catch fire - and wouldn't it be more fun to drive a car that handles just as well and also accelerates better, in addition to the whole reliability thing? Of course. Hence, in my view, old Alfas are crap, in that there are a lot of vehicles that are better in every way except "being Italian."
Most things involve a trade-off: give up one thing to get another. With cars, you don't have to do that - you can have both fast and driveable - AND reliable. So why not get all of it?
Anyway, that's my opinion take it or leave it. Feel free to continue with your odd appeals to my personal life, like the jab daan inserted about me driving automatics (I can drive manual), the statement above about me driving an 850 (I don't), the earlier statement about how all Volvo drivers are weird old women (I agree), the fact that I don't enjoy driving (despite the 32,000 miles last year), or the fact that I'm a dumb American obsessed with power (evidently ignoring the previous 15,000 posts and the fact that I hate muscle cars even more than old Alfas), none of which were relevant to the thread in the first place. In order to return this thread to its normal operations, I'm going to refrain from posting on this subject and leave you all to your opinions - unless daan posts again, in which case I will reply since he's just wrong. Carry on!
- 36,692
- Scotland
- GTP_daan
Before I got the Peugeot, I went to look at an Alfa GTV, and would have bought one, but for one small reason. A very small reason...Obviously if that were true you'd ALL be driving old Alfas: they're fashionable, and fun to drive. No statistics involved in that decision. So why aren't you guys? Hmmmmm....
I needed a car with a biggish boot as I needed to carry ~14 laptops and a large box of training materials. The Alfa's boot would have taken 2 laptops. (The Alfa's spare wheel lives in the boot and is missing from that photo)
And the 406 boot. (pic is a saloon, but the Coupe's is roughly the same size)
And here's a picture just for you.
EDIT:
Oh, goody. Can't wait.
- 87,376
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Alfa Romeo's reliability record sucks. As hard as FIAT's and Land Rover's.
And, for that matter, Peugeot, Citroen and Renault's.
Interesting underlined part there. Are you pretending like you know everyone here?
Like me? Or my brother, for that matter (though "convertible" doesn't come into it when the car has no roof).
Race Idiot
(Banned)
- 11,439
- Sao Tome and Principe
Why don't you go write a massive boring blog about it on myspace. Oh wait....
Anyway I saw a Vauxhall Monaro today in Tescos. Every time I see a monaro i'm like 'BOOYA I JUST SAW A MONARO' because they are awesome.
- 40,832
You answered your own question, it seems. As you did here:
And here:M5Power
And here:M5Power
I could go on. It’s a 40 year-old car, and if you expect any 40 year old car to run like clockwork you are a fool, Alfa or not.M5Power
Do I really need to post that long list again (and allow me to laugh at you if you suggest the original Mini wasn't joy to drive)?M5Power
First of all, that is irrelevant anyways, as I'm sure 90% of cars built before 1980 fall under that standard. Second of all, since you seem to make it sound like the only joy from cars can be drag racing, you may be shocked to find that, in addition to twisty bits and the like, many people take joy out of their cars without even driving them. It does, however, explain your "stats first" rationale behind the joy of a car, because joy for you sounds like flooring it at a stop light and only that.
I don't get it. You're saying the Alfa is less practical, so you went with a more practical car. That's my point exactly - people always factor in statistics before making decisions. You can't pretend you don't.
Famine
I'll put it to you this way, my boy: I've had sex, and I've driven a car. And the one I'd rather do doesn't involve a bed.
- 6,009
- Austin, Texas
- D-Nitrate / GTP_DNitrate
STEREOTYPE: a popularly held belief about object(s), type of person, or group of people which does not take into account individual differences.
(the uninformed comment from you that took this thread off course)
Did I mention slow? Old Alfas suck. They were all powered by miniscule engines ("but they handle so well!"), they don't excel at anything except having pompous owners who think their cars are Italian, and therefore special.
The picture says it all.
If you still don't get it... there isn't much point discussing it further.
- 87,376
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- GTP_Famine
I do wish you'd stop doing this. I'm older than you. The only way for me to be your boy is some freaky time-travelling thing.
Unless your aim is to sound like an arrogant, condescending muppet, which is most unbecoming of you.
You'll forgive me if I don't instantly take your word for either.
The women of Atlanta and Denver may rest easily at night in that knowledge.
But the way I figure it, why choose?
Though that wasn't the point. You said that you enjoy driving "more than anyone here", while at the same time railing against someone for presuming to know you - do you not see the irony of that part of your post?
Oh Famine.
Roo
Premium
- 7,443
- Hampshire, UK
- GTP_Roo
Cost? When the stastics condradict (cost vs speed), something's got to give. It's one of the main reasons I bought my first Mini (998cc, 0-60 in about half a minute, handles like a rally winner). It's all very well saying that old Alfas are crap - it's a personal opinion, with plenty of evidence to support it - but if everyone wanted cars for the same reason you or I do (fast, good handling, reliable etc.), we'd all be driving identical cars. Which would be very dull.
Old Alfa drivers like their cars for the exact same reason everyone else does - the experiences they've had in them. I could easily afford an MX5, or a 3 series BM, or maybe even an MR2, but instead I bought another Mini. Why? Because of the experiences I've had, the people I've met, the things I can do in a Mini that you can't in other cars (parking inside schools, for example). Most people (not necessarily on GTP, but generally, in the real world) wouldn't know a quick, sweet-handling, mechanically-faultless car if they found it in their bed. They love their cars because of the experiences they've had in them, not because of the number that appears between the words "Top speed" and "mph", to pick a random example.
No no no, I was highlighting the fact that 'people don't buy classic cars for a practical purpose.' The vast majority of which falling below today's standards.
Yes, because ONLY emotional women and daan buy cars because of how they look.
I beg to differ.You may say 'I was joking' but you meant something along these lines anyway- there's no worming out of it.
For god's sake people do not buy old cars because they think they're going to last a lifetime! (Unless they're delusional). When people buy cars like that, reliability has very little to do with it. And not all are posers either. Yes, I know a few personally. They're actually in love with these cars.
It's like stamp collecting. You're not gonna use them to send letters but you like them so you get them anyway.
Yeah hi. Stereotype- I'm a Brit, as are my friends and family- don't want a convertible and NOT necessarily because it's 'impracticle'. It's because I have different tastes. I'd rather get something else.
Is it not possible to buy a car that has lower reliability than another for the exact same price... simply because it looks better? Can you say on pain of a very painful death that you'd never even be tempted to do that?
I won't pretend I ignore the paperwork but I still want a car that I can actually enjoy being stuck in on a 13 hour drive.
Subject to opinion... based on experience.
Edit: And weren't you supposed to be keeping schtum?
Race Idiot
(Banned)
- 11,439
- Sao Tome and Principe
Yeah, I thought that until I gave up my car for eight months. I'm four months in - having sex, and desperately missing driving! So I decided I'd give up sex for the four months, gladly, if it means I could drive again.
Now admit it - many of you could give up sex for a few months. But could you give up driving?! I don't even need to drive - I just want to!
McLaren
Premium
- 45,560
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An arrogant fool once said,
Basically, this whole argument is pointless because the fact is that any car YOU DON'T LIKE is crap and just love to promote it as a fact. Just like the M6 debate. If that was pointless because of its price, so were a LOT of freaking cars (and I still find that whole "a Carrera S beats it" a load of bull**** b/c the M6 has set pars with the 575M.)
So just stop everyone b/c apparently guys, if M5 doesn't like it, it's automatically crap even if the "paper" agrees with him.
So quit acting like you've driven more than anyone here, like you've had more sex than anyone here.
Basically, this whole argument is pointless because the fact is that any car YOU DON'T LIKE is crap and just love to promote it as a fact. Just like the M6 debate. If that was pointless because of its price, so were a LOT of freaking cars (and I still find that whole "a Carrera S beats it" a load of bull**** b/c the M6 has set pars with the 575M.)
So just stop everyone b/c apparently guys, if M5 doesn't like it, it's automatically crap even if the "paper" agrees with him.
