Do you believe in God?

[BayConRong]

Keeping in mind that each thing has an "opposite". Look at it as a Yin-Yang sort of thing.

There is also a devil. He has "dominion" over "earthly things".
He is who "inspired" Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Mengele, and others to do the rotten, hate-filled **** that they did.

Alright. but isn't it God who created them in the first place? if so why would he create people capible of such malace?

 

[Sage]

It was men who ordered and performed these vile acts

About half the things I mentioned are orders from God from the Bible. E.g., egyptian pharoah pisses off God, God goes “Screw the egyptians”, and orders all the first-borns killed. Swell guy.

I don't think you really mean the last statement.

Absolutely 100% totally completely I do. A world with a Judeo-Christian God is a world built on fear of reward and punishment, a world where we are not in final control of our environment and destiny. A world without God is a world of hope, a world where human beings can have a final say in their destiny – a world where you’re not doomed for believing in the wrong thing, not doomed because you stick your ding-dong in the wrong place, not doomed because you’re a rebellious child, not doomed because you’re not allowed to use stem cell research, not doomed because you were born to the wrong racial group, not doomed because of some “plan” by a being who could help you but instead doesn’t and prefers that you suffer. There is nothing more beautiful than the fact that there is no God, because it means hope for mankind to vastly reduce human suffering, because instead of dealing with the horrific laws of God, we only have to deal with the laws of nature.

 

[Joey D]

Alright. but isn't it God who created them in the first place? if so why would he create people capible of such malace?

Going by the Bible and Christian beliefs, God gave his creation free will which means if they wanted to follow a path of evil then they were able to do so.

 

[YSSMAN]

However, this is not to say I don't believe in forces at work in the universe. I'm not really going to get into the specifics but I almost take a Jedi outlook on everything with good and evil forces at work throughout the universe.

Take a look at my facebook profile and my religion is listed as Jedi. When people ask me, "do you believe in God? You must, because you go to a Catholic [not really] school..." I repeatedly say that I believe in a force, that there is something out there that guides us, penetrates us, surrounds us. That is not to say that it is a direct actor in determining our decisions on the human level, but that it most-certainly plays a role in the overall nature of man and the way in which we are able to react with one another. There is dark, there is light, but to say that one absolute power has total control over everything in the world... I just find that to be flat wrong.

 

[Sage]

I totally do not understand this “force” thing that many soft atheists talk about. If you’re just talking about the laws of nature, then what more is there to say? And if not, then what in the name of trees are you talking about? Mysticism is either true or not – there’s no in-between.

 

[Rusty*]

That brings up a good Emo Phillips joke though:

“When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn’t work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.”

I do believe as a moderator you are responsible for upholding a good example regardless of what the topic is, your post is simply defamatory and offensive to religion.👎
Your 'joke' was not called for as I'm sure you would have known it would have been offensive to some member's.
And yes I am Christian, as much, I respect the free right to believe in whatever you feel like, and you should not be joked at or insulted because you believe in something.
Faith is believing without seeing or knowing better.
Therefore I challenge all to ask yourself the question:
Do I not believe in Religion because science has shown us differently (Big Bang, long-age etc.)?? If so then:
The scientists today talk about Million's of years and a GREAT deal of there theory is simply guessing, (and also noted fraudulent activities).
Unless you know otherwise you have to have faith in what there saying is true, so either way you go you have to have faith in something.
For those of you who find religion('s) confusing, how much time have you actually spent genuinely trying to find the truth?
As my opinion...modern science can be undertood to a much greater depth in one is to look at the Christian Bible. However as I said everyone is entitled to there own believe's, and I will not insult anyone for because of this; regardless of how wrong they are, I should only hope they genuinely have some understanding of Christianity before they make up there decision on what they shall follow.
Also note that the Bible is a record of history as much as a believe, by reading the Bible you are reading about history, and by reading about history you will see how obviously correct and accurate it is.👍
Note for Sage: If you have any issue's regarding my post, please PM rather than posting here again.
Peace,
Rusty*

 

[Wolfe]

The difference between faith in science and faith in religion is that in just one of the two cases, there are centuries of mathematical work and a wealth of data and hard, physical evidence to support the conclusions made about the universe we live in. You're free to believe whatever you like, but good luck trying to use logic to debunk logic.

As for your response to Sage's joke -- chill, please. Quoting a joke is not blasphemy by any sane man's standards.

 

[Sage]

Okay, here’s a good atheist joke:

A young woman teacher with obvious liberal tendencies explains to her class of small children that she is an atheist. She asks her class if they are atheists too. Not really knowing what atheism is but wanting to be like their teacher, their hands explode into the air like fleshy fireworks.

There is, however, one exception. A beautiful girl named Lucy has not gone along with the crowd. The teacher asks her why she has decided to be different.

"Because I'm not an atheist."

Then, asks the teacher, "What are you?"

"I'm a Christian."

The teacher is a little perturbed now, her face slightly red. She asks Lucy why she is a Christian.

"Well, I was brought up knowing and loving Jesus. My mom is a Christian, and my dad is a Christian, so I am a Christian."

The teacher is now angry. "That's no reason," she says loudly.

"What if your mom was a moron, and your dad was a moron. What would you be then?"

She paused, and smiled. "Then," says Lucy, "I'd be an atheist."

 

[Rusty*]

The difference between faith in science and faith in religion is that in just one of the two cases, there are centuries of mathematical work and a wealth of data and hard, physical evidence to support the conclusions made about the universe we live in. You're free to believe whatever you like, but good luck trying to use logic to debunk logic.

As for your response to Sage's joke -- chill, please. Quoting a joke is not blasphemy by any sane man's standards.

I was simply pointing out that his 'joke' could and very likely would be taken as an un-called-for and disrespectful comment.
If you can not see how this is so then clearly you do not care for religion or the right to believe in something without having your belief 'joked' at.👎
As for your hard evidence...how do you explain that evolutionists are constantly changing there theory to make other bits 'fit in' and to help make it all seem...logical?? Also scientists have reported on numerous occasions that they have been out by millions of years on there evidence...millions of years. That's a long time to be out by, shows how definite there first 'educated' guess was.
What is written in the King James (KJV) Bible regarding evolutionists:
Romans 1:22- Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools...
Rusty*

 

[V1P3R]

Faith is believing without seeing or knowing better.

You mean hope? and then you realize how much of a lost cause it is...

 

[Wolfe]

I was simply pointing out that his 'joke' could and very likely would be taken as an un-called-for and disrespectful comment.
If you can not see how this is so then clearly you do not care for religion or the right to believe in something without having your belief 'joked' at.👎

No, I don't believe in "the right to believe in something without having your belief joked at." It's called free speech. You can make fun of the fact that I doubt the existence of a god but cannot deny it for lack of proof. See if I get insulted.

As for your hard evidence...how do you explain that evolutionists are constantly changing there theory to make other bits 'fit in' and to help make it all seem...logical??

Changing your mind because of new, contradicting evidence is logical, yes. Stubbornly maintaining your original position no matter what evidence anyone shows you to the contrary is foolish.

 

[Famine]

As for your hard evidence...how do you explain that evolutionists are constantly changing there theory to make other bits 'fit in' and to help make it all seem...logical?? Also scientists have reported on numerous occasions that they have been out by millions of years on there evidence...millions of years. That's a long time to be out by, shows how definite there first 'educated' guess was.

We've an entire, existing thread for this but, please, read the whole thing before you post - your questions have been covered at quite some length therein.

I dont get you

So... you don't "get" how your babbling story would in any way make other members of your religion embarrassed of you?

Oh and also I'm not Christian, I'm Catholic

Belief in Christ as the son of God = Christian. You've chosen a sect thereof (because not all Christians believe in the same Christ).

 

[V1P3R]

because not all Christians believe in the same Christ

💡 Soooo, are they going to hell then...?

 

[TheCracker]

It was men who ordered and performed these vile acts. Dear Sage, we all must die somehow, but if life is eternal, then suffering in this world is but a pin prick to your finger in comparison. And, God became a man and suffered more than anyone ever did.

Hitler killed over 10 million. Stalin: 20 million, and Mao Zedung: 70 million. Why? I don't know, but I don't blame God. If you blame Him for every innocent death, you must not forget to give Him credit for giving life to every human who ever lived.

God must really suck at Age of Empires.

 

[Joey D]

I totally do not understand this “force” thing that many soft atheists talk about. If you’re just talking about the laws of nature, then what more is there to say? And if not, then what in the name of trees are you talking about? Mysticism is either true or not – there’s no in-between.

I wouldn't consider myself atheist though, I subscribe to the idea of I just don't know meaning I'm agnostic. I guess it could be the laws of nature, I don't know. I believe in some sort of force in the universe, it's hard to explain.

 

[Rusty*]

To all the member's that have quoted me:
I understand and respect your decision to not follow a Bible-believing religion is entirely up to the indervidual. However for your own sake please make an educated decision(read the Bible) before deciding to 'write-off' Christianity as not for you.
A decent Judgement MUST ALWAYS see both sides of the story and make a decision without bias, making this decision will be the most important decision of your life.
You owe it to yourself to make an informed decision.
I will write no more in this topic, so if you wish to communicate with me please feel free to PM me.
Rusty*

 

[Famine]

I understand and respect your decision to not follow a Bible-believing religion is entirely up to the indervidual. However for your own sake please make an educated decision(read the Bible) before deciding to 'write-off' Christianity as not for you.

Similarly, I trust you've read the Talmud, the Qu'ran, the Baghavad Gita, the Principia Discordia, the Kitab-i-Aqdas, the Tipitaka, the Dasam Granth Sahib, the Avesta, the Tao Te Ching, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and every single version of the Bible (including the Book of Mormon) before making your educated decision which one of these faiths is for you.

 

[Joey D]

What Famine said. I all to often hear religious people tell me that in order to make an informed decision on the topic of religion I need to look at both sides, which I have in greater detail then many people. I've always wondered how much they've studied outside their own religion though. I mean you have to look everywhere if you want to make an informed decision right? It also continues to shock me how many religious people will denounce evolution without having the foggiest idea what it entails.

 

[Gil]

About half the things I mentioned are orders from God from the Bible. E.g., egyptian pharoah pisses off God, God goes “Screw the egyptians”, and orders all the first-borns killed. Swell guy.

Sage, my brother,
Thing is that this was the very last of ten "plagues visited" upon Pharoah by God.

At any time, Pharoah could have obeyed God and avoided the entire mess. But he did not believe in God, even after all sorts of bad **** started to happen to him and his people.

Remember, Pharoah was not exactly a sweet guy in this whole thing. He was holding the entire Hebrew nation as slaves. He also "taunted" God, by making the work done by the Hebrews harder by denying them supplies, but wanting the same amount of product. On top of that he was worshipping idols, and demanding the Hebrews to worship them also.

All he had to do was release the Hebrews from servitude, and NONE of the "plagues" would have been visited upon Egypt. Or, the plagues would have stopped at whatever point the Hebrews were released. But Pharoah thought he was stronger and smarter than the God of the Hebrews.

Now, I'm pretty stubborn in my own right. But I'd like to believe that if I had been Pharoah, and all the water of my desert kingdom had been turned to blood after my first refusal to release the Hebrews....

Not only would I have let them go, my soldiers would have been helping them pack for the trip! Then the Egyptian women would've been making sandwiches and snacks for the road, to get those people out of my 'hood, and my water back to normal.

The point is, Moses, as an emmisary of God, asked Pharoah to "let my people go". Pharoah didn't listen and he got punished. He made the Hebrews suffer. God made the Egyptians suffer.

As far as the death of the firstborn. This is the why the Jews celebrate the Passover. The Holy Spirit "passed over" any home that had the blood of the lamb painted over the door. ANY home, including the homes of the Egyptians, that painted over their doors, was passed over.

Also, before each plague, Moses warned Pharoah that he would be punished and the punishment would affect his nation also.

Pharoah did not get "jumped" by suprise in some back alley. He was publicly "called out" by God to do the right thing. Each time he failed to do it, his nation was punished.

Pharoah was supposed to lead and protect his people. He did, after all, fancy himself to be their "god"....
Yahweh was/is the God of the Hebrews and he protected them thru all the "plagues".

God is a "swell guy" to those that do what he commands.
Pharoah was not even asked to worship God. He was asked to release his Hebrew slaves. He didn't and it cost him and his people.

If you go back and read the accounts in the Bible, you should note that whenever God "lashes out" against anyone there is either some disobedience, or the people being lashed out against are enemies of the Children of Isreal.

 

[Duke]

I like how people blame suffering on god. God isn't there to end world hunger or suffering and make sure that everything is perfect. How we live our lives on earth determines whether or not we go to heaven, which is a perfect place.

Why?

 

[Skynyrd1977]

ok then out of idle curiosity, i'm not mocking your reasoning or anything, but if Mao killed all those people wouldn't it stand to reason that the reason Mao was created was to kill those people?

and if Mao was indeed created to kill why would he be punished?

No, I don't think anyone is created to dish out punishment. We are all given free will to make our own choices. God did not make us robots. We are all tempted, Mao could have also chosen to do wonderful things, but he chose to do pure evil.

Alright. but isn't it God who created them in the first place? if so why would he create people capible of such malace?

We are all capable of malice, look at how we write about "punters". It's the choices we make that matter, and we all know how hard it is to choose the right thing sometimes.

The difference between faith in science and faith in religion is that in just one of the two cases, there are centuries of mathematical work and a wealth of data and hard, physical evidence to support the conclusions made about the universe we live in. You're free to believe whatever you like, but good luck trying to use logic to debunk logic.

Not sure if you refer to science or faith as having centuries of evidence. Faith has 4,000+ years of repeated personal testimony, and more evidence than many here may have heard about. Many great scientists from history were Christian, and many today still are. 👍

 

[Sureboss]

My wife and I have lost 3 children through miscarriages. My 3rd son has had 26 surguries through his 13 years. Yes, it IS easy to question, I have. I think it is OK to question, thats how you get answers, if you are truely objective.

This isn't meant to be confrontational, just an honest opinion:

As a hard-boned atheist (brought up as Christian) I have a lot more respect for any religious person who constantly tests their beliefs, than someone who just accepts what they know, without testing it. In a way, that is quite similar to Science. Pushing the boundaries of your thought patterns.

 

[Danoff]

God did not make us robots.

Then how do you explain Al Gore?

Not sure if you refer to science or faith as having centuries of evidence. Faith has 4,000+ years of repeated personal testimony, and more evidence than many here may have heard about.

"Evidence", I'm not sure you understand what is meant by the word.

Many great scientists from history were Christian

Yea, seeing heretics burned at the stake will do that.

In a way, that is quite similar to Science.

In a totally non-substantive way. I commend religious people who question their beliefs. But if they questioned their beliefs to the degree that scientists question their findings, they would not have faith.

Before others come in and try to argue against what I just wrote there, let me point out that it's a tautology - don't bother.

 

[Sureboss]

I was careful not to say:

"OMG, it's exactly the same as Science. Lollerz!"

 

[daan]

I'm on a mission from Glod

 

[Wolfe]

Similarly, I trust you've read the Talmud, the Qu'ran, the Baghavad Gita, the Principia Discordia, the Kitab-i-Aqdas, the Tipitaka, the Dasam Granth Sahib, the Avesta, the Tao Te Ching, The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and every single version of the Bible (including the Book of Mormon) before making your educated decision which one of these faiths is for you.

Exactly; although I'll be reading (part of) the bible anyway, for a class on the history of western culture this semester, I don't need to do so to know it's not for me. I think women have the right to choose, that homosexuals have the right to live and marry, and that men and women alike can masturbate as much as they want. I think drinking and certain drugs are alright (as always, in moderation), the names of JC and the big G himself make satisfying expletives, I'm not getting up early on Sunday to listen to anyone, and considering the things you have to give up to supposedly get there, I highly doubt heaven would be an interesting place. Hell sounds like more fun.

Christianity opposes my own ideology on many subjects, enforces "rules" I don't agree with, and requires a commitment of time and activity I have no desire to engage in. No amount of reading is going to change that.

 

[TheCracker]

I'm on a mission from Glod

Glod sucks.

Zod's where it's at

 

[Pako]

I have an odd feeling that this might belong here maybe?


OT: I believe there is someone or something of a higher power watching over us

Yes, I have faith there is a God, and believe there is divine intervention in my life and others around me. From my own life and their testaments, my faith is strengthened. Through prayer and study, my faith is renewed. opendriver19a quoted the mega, unofficial "Does God Exist" thread so I will leave my debates for that specific thread.

 

[daan]

Glod sucks.

Zod's where it's at

Bod owns Zod.

 

[buickgnx88]

I tried praying to God, but all I recieved was his answering machine.