Do you believe in God?

[squadops]

...Is that really the accepted view by Christians?...

I hope not, it might be the new trend with those hell bent on scientifically proving the validity of their religion.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Which was exactly my point. SCJ was attempting to use logic to explain God's behaviour, I was pointing out that logic doesn't work on a being that is illogical.

Yes.

I sense moving goalposts.

So when you say "omnipotent", you don't actually mean omnipotent, you just mean much more powerful than you?

How about you say that then, instead of using language that is misleading.

Thus far, to my knowledge the references of the three Os to God in the Bible are as it pertains to his Creation and our existence and not necessarily upon any imaginitive scenario.
Now you could argue that does not meet the definition of particularly Ominipotent, but as I sought to describe, it is really only relevant to that application as far as we are concerned.

Except I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. I'm trying to point out that the way you operate, it is impossible for God Almighty to convince you otherwise.

Yes I think I've been accused of that before.

Tell me, what hypothetical scenario would convince you that you were wrong?

As of yet, none that I am aware of.

And as I pointed out, you immediately rule invalid any experience that would not fit with your conclusion.

Thats because I do not know how one can deny a reality.
Reality supercedes a conclusion.

What if I'd been to the same establishment, and found that it was a daycare centre and that they don't even serve drinks?

Well there must have been a failure to communicate properly somewhere.

The problem is, you're not willing to listen to anyone whose experience is different to yours. Your answer is "come back when you've seen what I've seen". That's not helpful.

I think you are making an assumption there.
I most assuredly listen to what is being said.
Agreement is where the conflicts more than not seem to arise.
Sorry, helpful is not always as simple a proposition as it sounds.

Did I say otherwise?

If I am not mistaken you said "objective evidence".

How about I acknowledge that you can go 🤬 yourself?

If you're going to keep decrying me as a servant of Satan, I've got nothing more to say to you. You come back to me when you're willing to admit that maybe I'm not a pawn of evil, and maybe we can have a rational discussion. As long as you're going to treat me as some lackey doing the bidding of your great deceiver, I see no point wasting my time on you.

Easy there Imari, you have my sincerest apologies if you were offended.
Perhaps I should have seen that coming.
If you would please allow me to elaborate, perhaps you will realize what I was attempting to get across.

First, which I thought I answered adequately, I do not believe you are a conscious servant of Satan.
I did not intend to insinuate that you were, although perhaps in hindsight I did.
According to the Bible all of us without exception, are born under Satan's influence through the Fall of Adam and Eve. (They obeyed him instead of God)
And it is for that reason, Jesus said you must be born again, or born of God's spirit.
Accordingly that is the only way to get out from under that influence.
That is what, as poorly as it might have been injected, I was referring too.

Just as we keep asking you for directions to receiving the Holy Spirit - but, rather selfishly, you won't share them.

We can no more just randomly wander about and stumble upon this establishment with the fabulous drink than we can randomly wander about and stumble upon God. Show us where it is and we can do it easily - or give us clear directions and we can get there ourselves. Keep it secret and there's no chance.

Since I am not familiar with the establishments in your location, I can only provide the qualifications to look for.
Jesus said that where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I will be in the midst of them.
Thats the first perequisite of the establishment you need to look for.
The second would be wherein among that group the impartation, signs and gifts of the Holy Spirit are believed and practiced.

Thats the establishment you are looking for that has the drink.

... which again assumes that it is his work and not Satan's...Did Satan write a Satanic Bible?

Assumptively, yes.
Unless of course, it's a forgery.

 

[nascarfan1400]

Wow, are you tempted by other guys?

Most every straight guy I know is not.

My sexuality is none of your business, friend.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

My sexuality is none of your business, friend.

I think the comment was directed at Rotorist, not you. And I agree with you 👍

 

[Imari]

My sexuality is none of your business, friend.

True.

He makes a good point though, a guy who is tempted by other guys is not straight.

Not that most of us have any problem with that, but for people like Rotorist for whom homosexuality is a horrible sin, for him to describe it as "temptation" probably reveals more about him than he wanted to share.

 

[Mike458]

True.

He makes a good point though, a guy who is tempted by other guys is not straight.

Not that most of us have any problem with that, but for people like Rotorist for whom homosexuality is a horrible sin, for him to describe it as "temptation" probably reveals more about him than he wanted to share.

But then again, this raises another question: Should we let religion determine who we are? Should we force ourselves to be something that we aren't?

 

[Imari]

But then again, this raises another question: Should we let religion determine who we are? Should we force ourselves to be something that we aren't?

The obvious answer would be no, but then Christians of the sort that object to homosexuality seem to often be of the opinion that the gays would be better off dead.

If the choice is between being something you're not and being a corpse, I can see the argument for pretending to be straight.

 

[squadops]

If one's daily life is at insurmountable odds with their religion the better argument would be to abandon the religion.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

My sexuality is none of your business, friend.

I quoted him quoting you. I was replying more to him. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Rotorist]

Basic logic problems in many comments about my posts, so let me make some things clear as some judge others from their position as non believers and will fault in judgement eternally .

1) For me to say that homosexuality is both a terrible sin and a temptation from devil is absolutely normal and logical from my aspect as a believer in Jusus Christ and his Word. If it wouldn't be a temptation, how would it be a sin that could lead someone to eternal hell? And after all, who goes with a woman without having the temptation to do it? Similar actions, similar motives. Why is it so hard for some of you here to get it?

As for my personal taste, no problem to say that I like women enough to be my biggest temptation since my teenage. Much more than cars. Money and glory were never temptation to me.

2) About Scaff's who keeps asking about genoside. What else do you need to know? Flood was a God's action. Sodomma's and Gomorra's extinction too. The God's order to Jewish people to slaughter the prople living into the land they would get wasn't executed, so? God has fobidden to kill anyone, moreover a whole city or nation in his 10 orders given to Moses. So, God only will tell when and what something happens against those orders who are stable except for some cases God has told too. And that's it for OT. In NT, murder is totally forbidden as Jesus ordered only to love and forgive. But this change in His Law happened because He was killed for us even if He was without any sin at all.

About the Flood some not so old articles below having scientific value and even evidence:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/storms/great-flood.htm

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ev...t-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533

And newest studies indicate that beneath land there is much more water than in the oceans in underground lakes. That is the answer about where so much water was gone after the Flood. Just Google it.

 

[Danoff]

As for my personal taste, no problem to say that I like women enough to be my biggest temptation since my teenage.

Lucky for you your religion doesn't send you to hell for giving in to your biggest temptation.

 

[nascarfan1400]

Basic logic problems in many comments about my posts, so let me make some things clear as some judge others from their position as non believers and will fault in judgement eternally .

1) For me to say that homosexuality is both a terrible sin and a temptation from devil is absolutely normal and logical from my aspect as a believer in Jusus Christ and his Word. If it wouldn't be a temptation, how would it be a sin that could lead someone to eternal hell? And after all, who goes with a woman without having the temptation to do it? Similar actions, similar motives. Why is it so hard for some of you here to get it?

As for my personal taste, no problem to say that I like women enough to be my biggest temptation since my teenage. Much more than cars. Money and glory were never temptation to me.

2) About Scaff's who keeps asking about genoside. What else do you need to know? Flood was a God's action. Sodomma's and Gomorra's extinction too. The God's order to Jewish people to slaughter the prople living into the land they would get wasn't executed, so? God has fobidden to kill anyone, moreover a whole city or nation in his 10 orders given to Moses. So, God only will tell when and what something happens against those orders who are stable except for some cases God has told too. And that's it for OT. In NT, murder is totally forbidden as Jesus ordered only to love and forgive. But this change in His Law happened because He was killed for us even if He was without any sin at all.

About the Flood some not so old articles below having scientific value and even evidence:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/storms/great-flood.htm

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ev...t-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533

And newest studies indicate that beneath land there is much more water than in the oceans in underground lakes. That is the answer about where so much water was gone after the Flood. Just Google it.

How is it a sin to love someone? What is gender but the difference between a testicle and a uterus?

 

[Jet Badger]

For me to say that homosexuality is both a terrible sin and a temptation from devil is absolutely normal and logical from my aspect as a believer in Jusus Christ and his Word.

Imagine how logic and normal for a believer in Jesus' word would it be to say homosexuality is a terrible sin if Jesus had said absolutely nothing about it altogether.

What a crazy idea.

 

[Scaff]

2) About Scaff's who keeps asking about genoside. What else do you need to know? Flood was a God's action. Sodomma's and Gomorra's extinction too. The God's order to Jewish people to slaughter the prople living into the land they would get wasn't executed, so? God has fobidden to kill anyone, moreover a whole city or nation in his 10 orders given to Moses. So, God only will tell when and what something happens against those orders who are stable except for some cases God has told too. And that's it for OT. In NT, murder is totally forbidden as Jesus ordered only to love and forgive. But this change in His Law happened because He was killed for us even if He was without any sin at all.

Quite a biy mixed up in here. so lets start with your acknowledgement that God both committed genocide and ordered others to commit genocide; as such your instruction to us of .....

"If we mimiced God and his love for us (he let us crucify His Son to clear us all who would believe in Jesus from our uncountable sins), our freedom would have transformed the planet to paradise."

...would mean that a path to paradise lies (among other means) in genocide.

Now you also state that the Ten Commandments say not to kill, that's a poor translation of the original Hebrew text (and one that annoys Jews), as it should be thou shall not murder. Killing (up to and including genocide if Gods tells you to) is fine.

About the Flood some not so old articles below having scientific value and even evidence:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/storms/great-flood.htm

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ev...t-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533

And newest studies indicate that beneath land there is much more water than in the oceans in underground lakes. That is the answer about where so much water was gone after the Flood. Just Google it.

You do realise that none of that supports the Biblical myth of a world wide flood, oh and none of its peer reviewed either. The sources it does cite that are worth a damn all cover local floods.

Oh and your water in the Earth's mantle, its not in big lakes, sorry but you might want to actually read the data behind your finds next time.


Nor have you answered this question yet (which I have asked three times now):

Now what about my question, which NT verses say you can't be a member here?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Am I the only one confused why the religious come in here and throw around the word "logic"? Logic and "God" just don't go together.

 

[nascarfan1400]

I quoted him quoting you. I was replying more to him. Sorry for the confusion.

Ah. My apologies

 

[Mike458]

Basic logic problems in many comments about my posts, so let me make some things clear as some judge others from their position as non believers and will fault in judgement eternally .

1) For me to say that homosexuality is both a terrible sin and a temptation from devil is absolutely normal and logical from my aspect as a believer in Jusus Christ and his Word. If it wouldn't be a temptation, how would it be a sin that could lead someone to eternal hell? And after all, who goes with a woman without having the temptation to do it? Similar actions, similar motives. Why is it so hard for some of you here to get it?

So why ARE there gay couples then? If God created the world, he shouldn't have made us like the same sex. As humans are part of nature, gay couples are also part of nature. So why is it a sin to participate in that behavior?

As for my personal taste, no problem to say that I like women enough to be my biggest temptation since my teenage. Much more than cars. Money and glory were never temptation to me.

And yet money makes the world go round. And you liking women is just a natural instinct to the environment. Humans and all other life were made to reproduce and carry on their genetic material to the next generation. So the question I have for you is this: What do you really live for?

2) About Scaff's who keeps asking about genoside. What else do you need to know? Flood was a God's action. Sodomma's and Gomorra's extinction too. The God's order to Jewish people to slaughter the prople living into the land they would get wasn't executed, so? God has fobidden to kill anyone, moreover a whole city or nation in his 10 orders given to Moses. So, God only will tell when and what something happens against those orders who are stable except for some cases God has told too. And that's it for OT. In NT, murder is totally forbidden as Jesus ordered only to love and forgive. But this change in His Law happened because He was killed for us even if He was without any sin at all.

So therefore the Holocaust, Joseph Stalin's massacres, 9/11, and the Syria chemical weapons attack are all justified if they say that it was for God?

About the Flood some not so old articles below having scientific value and even evidence:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/storms/great-flood.htm

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ev...t-flood-noahs-time-happened/story?id=17884533

And newest studies indicate that beneath land there is much more water than in the oceans in underground lakes. That is the answer about where so much water was gone after the Flood. Just Google it.

To believe in the Great Flood requires you to believe that God created entire universe in SIX days, most of which was spent on Earth, a human female was created with the rib of a male, animal abuse is justified in Genesis 1:31, plenty of pointless murders, rape, and genocides, and more? I don't see that as a credible conjecture at all.

 

[Exorcet]

Thats because I do not know how one can deny a reality.
Reality supercedes a conclusion.

And yet you do deny reality by mistaking your experiences for it. No one experiences reality directly. It's easy enough to see just by looking up optical illusions on images searches.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

How is it a sin to love someone? What is gender but the difference between a testicle and a uterus?

Well now that you mention it, it is not a sin to love someone, but there are different types of love.
To love someone of the same sex in a sexual way is a sin because you were created for a different purpose.
Sin is really nothing more than a form of abuse.
For example, would you take a Super car designed and purposely built for tarmac and go four wheeling with it.
Of course not. I would venture to say there are quite a few car guys that would call that a sin.
I think I would have to agree with them.
Not to mention, it's pretty obvious woman was made for man, not man for man or woman for woman.
Pro creation is naturally a big part of that as well.
Most importantly the First blood covenant of only three, God claims to have instituted, is between man and woman.

And yet you do deny reality by mistaking your experiences for it. No one experiences reality directly. It's easy enough to see just by looking up optical illusions on images searches.

You sound as if you are a "perception is reality" man.
BTW, the reality is not optical.

 

[The McMerc]

Well now that you mention it, it is not a sin to love someone, but there are different types of love.
To love someone of the same sex in a sexual way is a sin because you were created for a different purpose.
Sin is really nothing more than a form of abuse.
For example, would you take a Super car designed and purposely built for tarmac and go four wheeling with it.
Of course not. I would venture to say there are quite a few car guys that would call that a sin.
I think I would have to agree with them.
Not to mention, it's pretty obvious woman was made for man, not man for man or woman for woman.
Pro creation is naturally a big part of that as well.
Most importantly the First blood covenant of only three, God claims to have instituted, is between man and woman.

Why would God make is into something we weren't meant to be? The bible says that God made us in his image, but it's clear his image is not for us to be gay.

 

[nascarfan1400]

Well now that you mention it, it is not a sin to love someone, but there are different types of love.
To love someone of the same sex in a sexual way is a sin because you were created for a different purpose.
Sin is really nothing more than a form of abuse.
For example, would you take a Super car designed and purposely built for tarmac and go four wheeling with it.
Of course not. I would venture to say there are quite a few car guys that would call that a sin.
I think I would have to agree with them.
Not to mention, it's pretty obvious woman was made for man, not man for man or woman for woman.
Pro creation is naturally a big part of that as well.
Most importantly the First blood covenant of only three, God claims to have instituted, is between man and woman.



You sound as if you are a "perception is reality" man.
BTW, the reality is not optical.

You're telling me that you will look a homosexual straight in the eye and tell them that they are unnatural for whom they love? Ill assume you also take it that LGBT's chose their way of life?

Are you ignoring data that science has given us, showing that homosexuality is prevalent in hundreds of species you claim a man created? If its so unnatural then why has it been happening for all these years in all these species?

 

[ImaRobot]

Well now that you mention it, it is not a sin to love someone, but there are different types of love.
To love someone of the same sex in a sexual way is a sin because you were created for a different purpose.
Sin is really nothing more than a form of abuse.
For example, would you take a Super car designed and purposely built for tarmac and go four wheeling with it.
Of course not.

So if someone loves someone in a sexual way, as well as a love them as a person does that cancel out sin?

If that person wanted to do something what is essentially theirs and theirs alone, I have no problem with it. I don't get to dictate what someone gets to do with what they have.

I would venture to say there are quite a few car guys that would call that a sin.
I think I would have to agree with them.
Not to mention, it's pretty obvious woman was made for man, not man for man or woman for woman.
Pro creation is naturally a big part of that as well.
Most importantly the First blood covenant of only three, God claims to have instituted, is between man and woman.

My heart is for anyone that I want to have it, as well as anyone who wants to take it. For this matter, it would have to be my Fiance, but that wouldn't change my view even if it was a male either.

BTW, the reality is not optical.

How would you know what reality is if you cant even see it?

 

[Famine]

Since I am not familiar with the establishments in your location, I can only provide the qualifications to look for.

What? It's your establishment and you had the awesome drink - therefore you can tell me where to find it.

Jesus said that where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I will be in the midst of them.
Thats the first perequisite of the establishment you need to look for.
The second would be wherein among that group the impartation, signs and gifts of the Holy Spirit are believed and practiced.

Thats the establishment you are looking for that has the drink.

I've been to loads of those. I was even Christened in one. Jesus didn't appear.

Do you have better directions?

Assumptively, yes.
Unless of course, it's a forgery.

I'm only familiar with one Satanic Bible and nowhere in it is it claimed that it's the Word of Satan. It was written in the 1960s by a not-especially original author.

I see you cannot laugh at reminding of Sodoma's and Gomorra's event.

I can laugh at anything. No idea what that has to do with anything...

And to laugh at Revelation, a book of NT which was written by one of Jesus Apostole's

Actually, I was just laughing at the concept of you using a book written 60 years after the death of Jesus as a rebuttal of my point about Jesus saying nothing about homosexuals during his lifetime, but I can laugh at Revelations too. I mean, for a start, it reads from beginning to end like a trip on mushrooms (largely due to the fact it is)...

But then there's the claim it was written by John the Apostle - something once posited but long since rebutted to the point of not even Bible scholars claim it any more...

is the same as to laugh at the whole NT, so you really don't want to discuss seriously about...

I discuss a great many things seriously here - and as I said earlier I can laugh at anything. So your premise is false.

 

[Smurfybug]

I think it's just based on Religion and if you believe it or not.

 

[Exorcet]

Well now that you mention it, it is not a sin to love someone, but there are different types of love.
To love someone of the same sex in a sexual way is a sin because you were created for a different purpose.

Assuming we were created and God wanted us to do something, why would not doing that be a crime? Creation of something inanimate implies ownership, but people are not such things. Unless God feels the need to be a slave owner, he is pretty far out of place for "punishing" people who do not do what he wants.

Sin is really nothing more than a form of abuse.

There is zero abuse in a normal, loving homosexual relationship.

For example, would you take a Super car designed and purposely built for tarmac and go four wheeling with it.
Of course not.

I think that would have to do more with the fact that you're likely to sustain injury or vehicle damage doing so. There is nothing wrong with it though and to label it wrong is to show massive bias.

Not to mention, it's pretty obvious woman was made for man, not man for man or woman for woman.

What is obvious? Two men/women can do everything a subset of heterosexual couples can except directly conceive (not something all hetero couples can do). This includes having a relationship, sexual pleasure (I don't see how there is any evil in that at all), raising children, caring for each other, etc.

Not being able to have children is a very distinct advantage at times, because unchecked population growth can be a major problem and there are situations that would just be miserable to be born into.

Most importantly the First blood covenant of only three, God claims to have instituted, is between man and woman.

Unless a person signed this directly, they can partner with whoever they want. Else it's God trampling on free will.

You sound as if you are a "perception is reality" man.

That's almost the opposite of what I said. Perception is all we see of reality. We do not see reality itself ever, "see" referring to any sense.

 

[Mike458]

Before we go too far off topic, I would like to post a couple of links, the first regarding gay marriage:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/young-people-who-believe-marriage-should-be-between-a-man-an

I don't know why this is even an issue anymore, moreso a sin (if sin exists, which it most likely doesn't).

The second link is also related to gay marriage: http://www.buzzfeed.com/tommywes/14-students-voting-against-marriage-equality#.ldJEV2bmE

This is utterly ridiculous. I don't know how people can be this bigoted and this discriminating to others!

Back on topic, if you click both links, they're all relating to religion and god's position of homosexuality. If religion didn't exist, most likely none of this would have happened!

 

[nascarfan1400]

If religion didn't exist, most likely none of this would have happened!

If I had a nickel for every time this was the case. The fact is it is here, and I don't mind religious people so long as they let people live their lives how they want.

 

[jimipitbull]

You sound as if you are a "perception is reality" man.
BTW, the reality is not optical.

Reality is an illusion caused by
a) absence of god
b) lack of drugs

 

[JKgo]

....Did this guy just compare gay folks to a car?

 

[Mike458]

....Did this guy just compare gay folks to a car?

View attachment 355562

Wait, what?