Do you believe in God?

[DCP]

This thread is why the world is doomed. How about you guys do something useful rather than debate if an imaginary man in the sky some dude claimed was real 2000 years ago exists.

The world is doomed because that same Man in the sky told us it would be the case. I wonder what the scientists 500 years ago were thinking the world would be like today? Still death, pain and suffering. Hmm

So all the 'gay' animals also lustfully choose to be gay as well then, if being gay is a choice?

So by that line of thinking there's no real difference between man and beast. Which can only mean that humans are not some specially created-by-god lifeform separate from animals.

People, unlike you and those who believe they came from animals, have absolute moralities, and a conscious.
Animals do not. The animals were cursed because of your sin, and mine, to not leave you alone.
Animals don't have to answer to God, and you think you don't either, because you are animal like.
The perfect substitute to continue walking after your own lust, dismissing God.

Not true. Incorrect. False. Wrong. Falsch. Mal. Errado. Sbagliato. Forkert. Feil. Anghywir.

Any of those work for you?

These ones do. It doesn't matter. You still got to stand before the Judge, because of your crimes, whether you believe it or not, want to believe it, try to believe it, or write it off completely. Your choice is exactly that, yours. Blaming anyone else will just make it worse for you.

I'll pile on because why not.



I have a gay sister who has always been christian (I myself am a heterosexual who has always been godless). When she came out to me, we reconstructed that I had known she was gay before she knew she was gay. How is any of that even possible in your world?

Most gay people go through a denial stage where they try to convince themselves that they're heterosexual just like everyone else. In my sisters case her closest friends asked her if she was gay, and her family members knew she was gay, years before she was willing to admit it to herself. She eventually came to terms with the fact that she was born that way.

Then you both have serious problems. There is One who can help yous though, but you got to put your pride, lust and worldly desires aside, and call on Him. If not, it's perfectly fine, because you prefer the best choice for your lives.
The Judge will reveal her heart to her, and she will be made known where, why, how and when she went wrong, and also the times she had been given the convictions to give it up, yet she still wanted it that why. No man knows the next mans heart, but only the One that created that heart.

To properly explain and understand human sexuality requires the complex interplay of many scientific disciplines - psychology, sociology, psychiatry, anthropology, gender studies, genetics, neuroscience etc.

Why do I get the feeling that DCP is not an expert in any of those topics?

Don't need to be. I just need to know the truth. The fear of God, is the beginning of wisdom.
If man can fear people like Isis, or try to hide from family because of doing things that shame them, how much more should they fear the one that they cannot hide from?
It's very simple, accepting that there is no God, doesn't make Him go away. You still have to face Him when you die, why, because you are going to die, no matter what you think science is doing to change that.

There are many instances in the bible where your god did deceive people. Jeremiah 20 is but one example.

As for "God is love", tell that to the innocents who died in your god's flood, people, animals and plants worldwide. Tell that to the firstborn children in Egypt who were slaughtered by your god because of a disagreement between him and the Pharaoh. Tell that to the children in Jeremiah 2:30. Tell that to the wives in 1 Peter 3:1.

Really, this "God is love" declaration is getting a bit old. The bible is rife with god's hate, injustice, violence, cruelty and murder.

Wake up DCP, stop posting and actually read the word of god. Then come back and rejoin as an informed participant in the discussion.

Postscript on love: Genesis 17:14 "And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant."

Did i ever mention before that sin before a Holy Creator is a massive crime?
Well lets try again. Sin before a Holy Creator is a serious crime, like a criminal standing before a Judge.
If not for Jesus, I assure you, Genesis 17:14 would be in full force today.
Thankfully and gratefully, our Loving God sent His Son and a substitute for the sins of this fallen world, so that through Him (Jesus), would a man be saved from the judgment against sin.

As I said above, you read that God destroyed all sin by the flood, and you should be concerned that He is going to do it again, in a city near you. This time though, you have a chance for your fine to be paid for in full, in the court room.
The choice, free will, or lustful desires of this world, is totally and only your choice alone.

@DCP If the bible told you that two plus two equals five, would you believe that or use your own hands?

We are long gone from ifs and butts in the Bible. We know the destiny of this world, and we do not want to be a part of it. I thank God for creating my hands though, thanks. While you guys climb your mountain of searching for the truth, by the time you reach the top, you'll find the Born Again Christian there.

DCP Keeps dodging our questions because he knows that we have him cornered.

Cornered? By the same scoffing questions with ifs and buts. I really hope and pray it's not the case, but that word cornered will have a serious meaning one day.

I have no words for how stupid this can possibly be.

So basically if God told you to kill yourselves for God, would you do it? If God told you to stone atheists and anyone who didn't believe in your god, would you do it?

If He did I would do it, but then I would be a Christian. I would be following false gods invented by single men.
Don't be ignorant. We don't say that we will kill ourselves for God.
We "KNOW", we are going to die, it's a banker, so we know how to prepare our hearts, and our relationship with Christ.
If this means anything to you, Born again Christians are only here for a season.
If it doesn't, then you must know that atheism is a small dog with a big bark, amplified by it's godless media.

 

[TenEightyOne]

We are long gone from ifs and butts in the Bible.

Fnarr.

While you guys climb your mountain of searching for the truth, by the time you reach the top, you'll find the Born Again Christian there.

I hope he isn't using one of science's oxygen bottles, that'll teach him.

 

[huskeR32]

People, unlike you and those who believe they came from animals, have absolute moralities, and a conscious.

Non-Christians aren't people? Certainly, you're not going that far...

Also, neither you nor any of your friends have demonstrated yet that morality requires religion. Care to take a crack at it?

Animals don't have to answer to God, and you think you don't either, because you are animal like.

Oh. You were going that far. Well then. You're quite an 🤬

 

[ImaRobot]

Honestly, How can one who claims he is good and trying to live his life without sin and do good by his neighbors be such an asshole. You're view on homosexuality is not only disgusting, but quite literally goes completely against the loving nature you seem to act like you portray. You're a very hateful and spiteful person(like so called Father, like son, no?) no matter how much you try to disguise it.

This adds nothing to the discussion, I know, and might possibly get me in trouble but god damn the way you act towards this trump's anything that the "Devil" is doing. You sound evil, atleast in my opinion and probably most anyone that doesn't follow your religion. I have many homosexual family members and friends, and your view is disgusting, so much so that it offends me to this point. I'm sure if they could not be "converted" to be straight, you wouldn't care less if homosexuals get wiped from this planet.

I have to add; I think it was @Famine who brought up the theory of the Devil writing the Book, and what if he did? This religion seems to bring out a lot of hate in its followers, that seems to be overshadowed by the "good" teachings in it.

 

[Famine]

People, unlike you and those who believe they came from animals, have absolute moralities, and a conscious.

[Citation needed], particularly on the part where people who don't believe in evolution are the only ones with "a conscious" (I presume you mean "conscience"...).

 

[Jet Badger]

People, unlike you and those who believe they came from animals, have absolute moralities, and a conscious.
Animals do not. The animals were cursed because of your sin, and mine, to not leave you alone.
Animals don't have to answer to God, and you think you don't either, because you are animal like.

Sometimes debating with a stray dog is a lot more productive and enjoyable than debating with some people. I'm now sure of it.

 

[squadops]

@Mike458, well I guess I stand corrected

If He did I would do it, but then I would be a Christian.

 

[Danoff]

Then you both have serious problems. There is One who can help yous though, but you got to put your pride, lust and worldly desires aside, and call on Him. If not, it's perfectly fine, because you prefer the best choice for your lives.
The Judge will reveal her heart to her, and she will be made known where, why, how and when she went wrong, and also the times she had been given the convictions to give it up, yet she still wanted it that why. No man knows the next mans heart, but only the One that created that heart.

How about you just answer the question...

How is any of that even possible in your world?

 

[dylansan]

@DCP

When is the last time you decided to be aroused?

 

[Dan]

Don't need to be. I just need to know the truth. The fear of God, is the beginning of wisdom.

How can you be so sure that "God's" word is the truth? Satan is the "Great Deceiver" after all.

We are long gone from ifs and butts in the Bible. We know the destiny of this world, and we do not want to be a part of it. I thank God for creating my hands though, thanks. While you guys climb your mountain of searching for the truth, by the time you reach the top, you'll find the Born Again Christian there.

ARE! YOU! KIDDING! ME!

 

[Touring Mars]

I just need to know the truth.

There are hundreds of thousands of people who work very hard to "know the truth", and dedicate their lives to addressing key questions. And yet people like you come along and casually dismiss science in its entirety and falsely claim to know 'the truth' about subjects you actually know absolutely nothing about. Surely even you can appreciate why so many people find that infuriating.

 

[JKgo]

I just need to know the truth.

I just need to know the truth.

I just need to know the truth.

.........Oh goody, I get to use this meme again.

Oh wait, maybe.....

 

[Mike458]

If He did I would do it, but then I would be a Christian. I would be following false gods invented by single men.
Don't be ignorant. We don't say that we will kill ourselves for God.
We "KNOW", we are going to die, it's a banker, so we know how to prepare our hearts, and our relationship with Christ.
If this means anything to you, Born again Christians are only here for a season.
If it doesn't, then you must know that atheism is a small dog with a big bark, amplified by it's godless media.

Erm... right... Let me make one thing clear...

You. Have. Not. Answered. My. Question.

Let me rephrase what I said down below here...

So basically if God told you to kill yourselves for God, would you do it? If God told you to stone atheists and anyone who didn't believe in your god, would you do it?

this way...

Would you justify your every action, even as far as murder, if it was "for god?" Imagine that you murdered an atheist. Would you say that this is "cleansing" the world? Seems like it because of this line here:

If He did I would do it, but then I would be a Christian.

So the answer is yes.

Let's keep going with this:

Did i ever mention before that sin before a Holy Creator is a massive crime?
Well lets try again. Sin before a Holy Creator is a serious crime, like a criminal standing before a Judge.
If not for Jesus, I assure you, Genesis 17:14 would be in full force today.
Thankfully and gratefully, our Loving God sent His Son and a substitute for the sins of this fallen world, so that through Him (Jesus), would a man be saved from the judgment against sin.

And how can you prove that Genesis 17:14 ever existed?

Then you both have serious problems.

So serious problems for a kind, accepting, rational view on the world?

There is One who can help yous though, but you got to put your pride, lust and worldly desires aside, and call on Him.

So basically turn a blind eye to the world and turn to a storybook to help?

If not, it's perfectly fine, because you prefer the best choice for your lives.

Well, at you least understand some form of reality.

The Judge will reveal her heart to her, and she will be made known where, why, how and when she went wrong, and also the times she had been given the convictions to give it up, yet she still wanted it that why. No man knows the next mans heart, but only the One that created that heart.

No idea what you are trying to say here.

We are long gone from ifs and butts in the Bible.

Facepalm/facehoof imminent.

So before you make any radical claims...

PROVE IT.

We know the destiny of this world, and we do not want to be a part of it.

Well, you don't. Please state how the world is going to end and how you actually KNOW what is going to happen. If you're a psychic, please say the last car I drove on GT6 today. If you can't answer that, then how are you going to know how the world and when the world is going to end?

I thank God for creating my hands though, thanks. While you guys climb your mountain of searching for the truth, by the time you reach the top, you'll find the Born Again Christian there.

Facepalm imminent.

Don't need to be. I just need to know the truth. The fear of God, is the beginning of wisdom.
If man can fear people like Isis, or try to hide from family because of doing things that shame them, how much more should they fear the one that they cannot hide from?
It's very simple, accepting that there is no God, doesn't make Him go away. You still have to face Him when you die, why, because you are going to die, no matter what you think science is doing to change that.

Please prove that when we die we are going to face some magical sky-man that has committed mass murder, genocide, racism, sexism, and general prejudice. When we die, we are going to rot into the ground, decompose, and our cells are going to turn into basic molecules that will begin the cycle of life again. Nothing more.

Cornered? By the same scoffing questions with ifs and buts. I really hope and pray it's not the case, but that word cornered will have a serious meaning one day.

Oh no! Us atheists are soooooooo ignorant in the changing world! Sure! We should not mix fabrics, we SHOULD embrace apartheid and genocide, we SHOULD cling to a false knowledge. Your incredibly knowledgable mind has changed my perspective on religion all together! Creation good! Science bad!

(In case you didn't know, that last comment was sarcasm)

 

[Scaff]

@DCP Why will you not answer my question?

Which NT verses state that you, as a devout Christian (and that you have made abundantly clear) should not be a member here?

Its frustratingly puzzling that you either will not or can not answer this.

 

[Mike458]

How can you be so sure that "God's" word is the truth? Satan is the "Great Deceiver" after all.



ARE! YOU! KIDDING! ME!

Just go with the flow... this is entertainment! (Well, what @DCP said in your quote...)

 

[TheCracker]

People, unlike you and those who believe they came from animals, have absolute moralities, and a conscious.
Animals do not. The animals were cursed because of your sin, and mine, to not leave you alone.
Animals don't have to answer to God, and you think you don't either, because you are animal like.
The perfect substitute to continue walking after your own lust, dismissing God.

👍 Yup. That works fine for me.

Who is to say that animals don't have a conscious anyway? Can you say for certain that they don't?

 

[FoRiZon]

Oh yeah @DCP? I thought animals do have answer to god in their ways of speech.

So, did you just say animals go to hell? So whats Noahs purpose when he saved those damn animals?

 

[HP]

I've been absent from this thread for ages and after reading it for the last hour I remember why I left.... trying to reason with someone who blinds themselves to logic, reason and science is, well it's like doing this -->

One thing I will say though is this: the following video really says it all.... Might i suggest that those with a penchant for levels of ignorance that border on insanity don't turn down the volume, as Possum suggests, instead turn it up and do something that you clearly havent done in a while and open your bloody eyes!!

And where is the evidence that prayer has advanced modern medicine?



Just because some medical people also practice religion, doesn't mean religion should get the credit for scientific medical discovery. No doubt a few doctors play Gran Turismo, and based on your logic, we should be crediting GT with medical advancement.

Now back to the foundations of creationism, may I suggest this video. @DCP and @squadops , if you want to protect your belief system, you'll have to turn the sound right down to zero.

 

[Mike458]

One thing I will say though is this: the following video really says it all.... Might i suggest that those with a penchant for levels of ignorance that border on insanity don't turn down the volume, as Possum suggests, instead turn it up and do something that you clearly havent done in a while and open your bloody eyes!!

This.

 

[GBO Possum]

Oh yeah @DCP? I thought animals do have answer to god in their ways of speech.

So, did you just say animals go to hell? So whats Noahs purpose when he saved those damn animals?

That wasn't Noah's purpose, it was God's purpose. "God moves in mysterious ways"

Maybe God just wanted Noah to have a seriously long international trip visiting every continent and every tiny island on the planet. From the polar regions to the tropics. From the Rocky Mountains to the New Guinea Highlands. From Galapagos to Madagascar. That was some trip, and he did it twice, since he had to put the animals back in the right places.

Oh the stories Noah could tell!

Funny thing that he didn't bother telling these stories. You'd think he would have written down at least some anecdotes in his 950 year life, even though the flood didn't occur until he was 600. Maybe he was worried about the taxes he'd have to pay on the royalties of the books.

Who knows. Noah moved in mysterious ways.

On the other hand, a creationist website I just read suggested an alternative explanation.

The Flood story, however, is not merely natural, it involves the supernatural. The Creator was moving to preserve His creation. Might it not be appropriate to propose that, as the Flood was nearing, He instilled in a chosen pair of each "kind" a sense of impending doom and a desire to migrate to Noah and his Ark for preservation?

I can just see the marsupial mice of Australia making the trek across the oceans to Noah, can't you? Supernatural marsupials!

EDIT: and consider the plight of the antipodean Pitcairn reed warbler, unique to Pitcairn, and suddenly is able to literally travel half way around the world and back!

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Has Christianity influenced the world? Yes. Is it the primary influence? No.

As per Europe and as extended to the Americas it was undeniably the predominant influence for over a 1000yrs.
And is primarily responsible for the civil systems we live under today, which are based to a large degree on it's moral teachings.
Consequently, it's influence has formed much of the moral value system of society in general.

If you want to rewind to find where modern ideas of morality came from, you'd need to go back at least 3000 years as Greece contributed hugely to the modern world. You would need to go back even further to find the points in time when our underlying biology began to shape our modern moral views. Christianity is just a small slice of the pie, and honestly as civilizations have progressed its influence has waned. This has often had good results too, such as the end for burning people just because they speak the truth.

Undoubtedly, there are numerous contributing influences.
However, Christianity historically is the primary influence in Europe and the Americas.

A higher moral authority is what was used to justify these things. When everyone is on equal footing, slavery becomes impossible. Slavery requires that one person believes they are superior to another. We already agreed that this is a faulty belief.

In reality, quite the opposite.
It's only a faulty belief under the moral absolutes of higher moral authority.
On an equal moral footing, slavery as with any other moral decision is subject to the whim of self justification on any given day, individually or collectively.

The problem with the idea of being like God as an authority is that he is either arbitrary or redundant. There is either absolute morality or there isn't. If there isn't absolute morality, then God can't create it, and any laws he might make are subjective. In that case there is no reason to obey them, outside of the threat of violence from God. On the other hand if absolute morals exist, they exist without God.

Absolute morality is established by God.
Outside of that, morality is a moving target as explained above.
If he is who he says he is and created everything thus, he most assuredly can institute morality standards.
There are no moral absolutes otherwise for the very reason I have been contending.

It's completely relevant, because it shatters the idea that someone's beliefs can justify their actions. Believing that theft is right doesn't make it so.

Well, is it wrong because God says so or you say so?

This is going towards the Human Rights thread again. Morality is derived from logic. We know that wants and desire are subjective, so we can't actually label those things as being objectively good or correct. This isn't an issue where two wants don't conflict, but what about when they do? I want to live. Someone else wants to kill me. My being alive is a natural state. If the other person thinks it is fine to kill me, they are saying that they think it's fine for one will to overcome another. This can't be justified since all will is subjective.

Subjective or objective is irrelevant.
Both of you are mere men so in his eyes, his justification system is as good as yours.
Whatever that happens to be, again at any given point in time, since there is nothing higher upon which to base a code of moral absolutes.

What you observe is the chain of logic in action, where people respect the fact that what they want is subjective or they ignore that. You don't observe morality in the sense of the universe upholding what is right. The universe doesn't care about anything at all.

It's probably easier to think of the two sides of morality as justifiable or unjustifiable rather than good and evil.

Precisely. It's about justification, not logic.
Thats why logic may, or may not be a factor.
There is no good or evil without the higher authority of moral absolutes.

If it's subjective it isn't logic. We're back to your misunderstanding of objective and subjective again, years down the line.

I know what it is, but again it's irrelevant.
Apparently, like some others here you believe, the bottom line is objectivity.
When in reality, it's justification.

Dawkin's quote and your paraphrase of it, reinforces that.

Let me ask you another question.
Was Hitler and Hirohito challenged and overcome in WW2 with logic or belief in higher moral standards of righteous justification?

 

[GBO Possum]

Absolute morality is established by God.

Let me ask you another question.
Was Hitler and Hirohito challenged and overcome in WW2 with logic or belief in higher moral standards of righteous justification?

Hitler, an avowed Catholic Christian, had a great role model in God.

In Mein Kampf, he said "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.."

Of course, he was never able to kill on anything like God's scale, but he was certainly a moral person, following the Almighty's example of true morality.

 

[dylansan]

Subjective or objective is irrelevant.
Both of you are mere men so in his eyes, his justification system is as good as yours.
Whatever that happens to be, again at any given point in time, since there is nothing higher upon which to base a code of moral absolutes.

We derived all of mathematics without any help from the bible or god. Certainly, there is no mention in the bible about how to perform derivatives or integrals and what they mean, etc. Yet surely you would not say that any man's system of math is just as good as anyone else's. Someone claiming 2+2=5 does not have equal footing as anyone else, and the reason for that is very clear.


Edit: Only just caught this ridiculous mess.

It's very simple, accepting that there is no God, doesn't make Him go away.

Accepting there's no Santa doesn't stop him leaving presents under your tree. Accepting there's no unicorns doesn't stop them prancing and eating up your garden.

Stop trying to sound profound. You say things like they're common knowledge, but the slightest amount of thought makes it clear that it's nonsense.

I don't know why you want to tell us the good word. Probably because you're supposed to, not because you care. But on the chance that you do care, you may want to figure out what it means to be convincing. Hint: telling someone that something is true whether they like it or not, is possibly the most unconvincing way you can try to tell someone something.

 

[sammy neuman]

If He did I would do it, but then I would be a Christian. I would be following false gods invented by single men.
Don't be ignorant. We don't say that we will kill ourselves for God."

So @DCP, something puzzles me here. You say that you wouldn't kill yourself for God, but the first words in this passage are "If He did, I would do it." Which you say would make you a mere Christian following a false God. So you wouldn't do it in that case even if He told you to? Doesn't that mean that you would be disobeying God? Perhaps I didn't understand this correctly?

In the Lords Prayer, or if you prefer, the instructions concerning prayer given by the Lord, I am to ask God to treat me the way I treat other people. Which I do ask, sometimes. Usually I just ask Him to keep me from embarrassing myself. Do Born-Again Christians obey this same instruction?

Edited to get it sorted out.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Buddhism doesn't

It can be interpreted that way.

Why does it need the same time frame and how exactly has Christianity been such an influence when its in the minority? By that logic I could claim that secularism is actually the influence for the whole planet.

Because it would have to be embraced with the same degree of influence and time of influence as compared to Christianity.
That is the only way to determine what a comparison group would yield as far as moral predisposition.

Why? You keep saying this but you have not actually explained why?

And I just explained again above.

Not a theory and no you haven't.

By your interpretation I haven't.
By mine I have.

How do you know? What evidence outside of the Bible exists to corroborate this?

All we have is one source that says a man called Jesus was crucified by the Romans, doesn't say why and doesn't support any other claim.

Again that is not conclusive either way.

The evidence is that over 400 years after Jesus is supposed to have died new material got added to the Bible, its doesn't exist in any version of the Bible prior to that point and isn't supported by any other source or text.

You are ignoring that and simply going with "he said it because the copy I grew up with says he did", to argue that I am the one missing the point or ignoring it is ludicrous in the extreme.

I haven't ignored anything.
It doesn't exist in the Codex_Sinaiticus, but it does exist in later texts.
Here are my replies again I made to you concerning this:

None of that establishes or supports the conclusion that Jesus did not say it, and it was not ligitimately added later.
It only prompts the question of why it was not in the Codex_Sinaiticus.

Good question.
I have no idea who.
Any number of whos with any number of legitimate or illigitimate reasons.
Or perhaps the guy transcribing missed a line in the oldest copy.
IMO it is still consistent with the rest of his teachings and I believe it is likely legit.
Personally, I would rather err on the side of swallowing a gnat, as opposed to a camel.

I haven't a clue.
Perhaps inside information, a document available at the time and since lost.
Just one of many possibilities.
Since new discoveries are being made overtime, we may know the answer at some point in the future.

Ignoring the fact it is inconclusive as far as evidence and then insisting it is, is ludicrous as well.
It is by current available evidence an inconsistency.
And in terms of the entire text of the New Testament, a somewhat minor one at that.
As of yet, there is absolutely nothing to suggest it is anything beyond that.
Now for the second time, discovery at some point in time may show a logical and reasonable explanation for it.
Or it may not.
In the mean time, drawing conclusions on the available evidence, is purely speculative and assumptive.

The evidence that is to hand supports this being added by men centuries after any eye-witness would have died, until any other evidence comes to light the evidence supports the material being added by men and not being the word of Jesus.

Oh course if you have any evidence to counter this (aside from "I know because.....") then please do provide it.

Again under the circumstances, that conclusion is pure speculation and assumption.
We do not know what documents may come to light that could lend reasonable and logical explanation to this occurance.

Likewise if you have something conclusive, please provide it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It can be interpreted that way.

No it can't, Buddhism doesn't have a "God" or "Deity". Simple fact.

Overall you seem to take the line that some Christianity forms a majority "control group" (it doesn't), that we have no way of seeing the effects of secularism on large portions of populations (we do), and that the bibble is a contemporary document to the activities of Jesus that leads into 2,000 years of directed worship (it isn't).

Does it ever concern you that early bibles don't even have the bit with the bloke flying up in front of the crowds?

 

[Scaff]

It can be interpreted that way.

No it can't.

Because it would have to be embraced with the same degree of influence and time of influence as compared to Christianity.
That is the only way to determine what a comparison group would yield as far as moral predisposition.

That's a presumption on your part, one that you haven't supported at all.

By your interpretation I haven't.
By mine I have.

I see, so your happy with you're own explanation so screw anyone else.

Again that is not conclusive either way.

Given that a negative can't be proven (how many times does that have to be explained to you) its up to you to provide proof that it did occur. To date none exists.

I haven't ignored anything.
It doesn't exist in the Codex_Sinaiticus, but it does exist in later texts.
Here are my replies again I made to you concerning this:

I've read you replies and I've addressed them, you simply repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't change the facts.

Its also not the only thing missing from Codex Sinaiticus (I'm amazed at just how ignorant you are of the history of your own religious text), the evidence for them being added at a later point by men is present (unless you now live in a universe in which time is non-linear), no evidence exists to support a claim that these bits added in afterwards were the words of Jesus.

To claim they were (as you are doing) is an extraordinary claim, please support it with evidence.

Again under the circumstances, that conclusion is pure speculation and assumption.
We do not know what documents may come to light that could lend reasonable and logical explanation to this occurance.

And as and when new evidence comes to light I will be more than happy to re-evaluate it, that doesn't change the fact that you are ignoring the evidence that exists right now (because it doesn't support your beliefs) and pretending evidence exists that doesn't (to justify your beliefs)

Likewise if you have something conclusive, please provide it.

That burden would be yours not mine. The evidence in place already supports the words being added (and it goes well beyond just that line) by men over 400 years after the claimed death of JC.

You are the one claiming that these words added were spoken by JC, given that 400 years passed as a minimum that claim is going to need some significant evidence. Please provide it.

 

[HP]

Attention to all subscribers of the "Do you believe in God" thread.

Today I nearly had an aneurysm reading some of the nonsensical responses, from the 'you bet I believe in God, TESTIFY!' camp, and that near death experience lead me to the realisation that perhaps a more simplistic method of getting the argument across is needed.

So, I thought Pictures might work!!

There are some words involved but it's nothing overly complicated thankfully! I trust it's not too difficult to comprehend

From your friendly GTP Heathen!

 

[FoRiZon]

So, is this an opinions thread, or a conversion battle thread?

I found both sides baffling tbh atm.

 

[TenEightyOne]

So, is this an opinions thread, or a conversion battle thread?

I found both sides baffling tbh atm.

They're often the same thing, no? You were equally baffled by the Bali 9 (or 8, or 1) thread, or so you said. Just roll up your sleeves and dig in