Do you still have respect for Kazunori Yamauchi? (poll)

[Michelin Man]

I'd say I respect Kaz for his work and what he has done and achieved, and I respect him both as a games developer and a racing driver. Although, in recent times I admit that level of respect I have for him has been challenged what with the squiffy nature of the the last two installements (although personally I enjoyed GT5, but that's personally opinion).

He has always seemed to be passionate about what he does whether it be on the track or in the studio, and I definitely admire that. One thing I will say is that Kaz certainly has a long way to go to regain the trust of many disappointing GT fans, and we'll just have to wait and see if GT Sport can go some way to achieve that.

Personally, as I've mentioned before, I'm remaining relatively optimistic about GT Sport, and am actually looking forward to it somewhat. But I'll remain coy until it's released and judge it in full when I get the day it's released.

 

[Silver Arrows]

I respect him, to a point, but I increasingly think that Kaz and Polyphony Digital as a whole are getting caught within tectonic shifts in the racing genre that have really accelerated in this console generation. And that they've also found themselves lagging behind their competition immensely, which also says that they expected the genre to be monopolized by them, at least on console.

You look at the GT series on the PS1 and hell, even on the PS2, there wasn't much competition aside from TOCA that did what GT did, on console. Eventually, Microsoft saw the potential to rival GT with Forza, and by now developers were starting to see the larger processing power on the PC as a way to rival and even surpass GT.

Now we move onto the seventh generation of consoles, and I still firmly believe that PD was very much hurt by the fact that the PS3's processing power and system internals were a pain to develop on. By now, more developers have started to get into the fight, and Forza is looming ever larger in terms of market share. By the time GT5 has come out, more sim games then ever are being released, plus Forza is a solid #2 in terms of sim market share, hell, could even be #1.

Now we skip to the eighth generation of consoles. Now, we are spoiled for choice when it comes to sim racing games on console alone. Forza, Assetto Corsa, Project CARS. Don't even have to mention the smaller, more niche sims on PC like Raceroom Experience, Simraceway, and the like.

I think the problem is, is that GT as a whole is really lost in terms of what identity it wants to set. Looking at GT Sport alone, I get mixed messages on what they want to do. They want to focus on the burgeoning E-Sports market, but they also want to court the old school GT fan with a deep career mode, and they want to continue providing the graphical fidelity that recent GT games are known for. But at the same time, it all feels so half baked, and coming off the Jekyll and Hyde experiences of GT5 and 6, I feel burned. By now, I've moved onto other sim racing experiences on console. Each which offer it's own cool things.

It's easy to see that Kaz is a visionary man, and he truly loves cars and racing as a whole. The thing is, I honestly believe he is increasingly out of touch with what gamers want. And as such, it's leading to a lot of fan apathy within the GT community, having moved onto to other sim racing games on console and on PC. It also doesn't help that the arcade racing side of the market, once having the lion's share, has essentially evaporated, NFS and Forza Horizon (Even though I hesitate to call it arcade) the only big series still running as a whole.

 

[ALB123]

Is Polyphony Digital going to be the Research In Motion of console games? Is Gran Turismo going to be the Blackberry of the sim racing world?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I respect him, to a point, but I increasingly think that Kaz and Polyphony Digital as a whole are getting caught within tectonic shifts in the racing genre that have really accelerated in this console generation. And that they've also found themselves lagging behind their competition immensely, which also says that they expected the genre to be monopolized by them, at least on console.

You look at the GT series on the PS1 and hell, even on the PS2, there wasn't much competition aside from TOCA that did what GT did, on console. Eventually, Microsoft saw the potential to rival GT with Forza, and by now developers were starting to see the larger processing power on the PC as a way to rival and even surpass GT.

Now we move onto the seventh generation of consoles, and I still firmly believe that PD was very much hurt by the fact that the PS3's processing power and system internals were a pain to develop on. By now, more developers have started to get into the fight, and Forza is looming ever larger in terms of market share. By the time GT5 has come out, more sim games then ever are being released, plus Forza is a solid #2 in terms of sim market share, hell, could even be #1.

Now we skip to the eighth generation of consoles. Now, we are spoiled for choice when it comes to sim racing games on console alone. Forza, Assetto Corsa, Project CARS. Don't even have to mention the smaller, more niche sims on PC like Raceroom Experience, Simraceway, and the like.

I think the problem is, is that GT as a whole is really lost in terms of what identity it wants to set. Looking at GT Sport alone, I get mixed messages on what they want to do. They want to focus on the burgeoning E-Sports market, but they also want to court the old school GT fan with a deep career mode, and they want to continue providing the graphical fidelity that recent GT games are known for. But at the same time, it all feels so half baked, and coming off the Jekyll and Hyde experiences of GT5 and 6, I feel burned. By now, I've moved onto other sim racing experiences on console. Each which offer it's own cool things.

It's easy to see that Kaz is a visionary man, and he truly loves cars and racing as a whole. The thing is, I honestly believe he is increasingly out of touch with what gamers want. And as such, it's leading to a lot of fan apathy within the GT community, having moved onto to other sim racing games on console and on PC. It also doesn't help that the arcade racing side of the market, once having the lion's share, has essentially evaporated, NFS and Forza Horizon (Even though I hesitate to call it arcade) the only big series still running as a whole.

How exactly are they courting the old school GT fan with a deep career mode when there is no deep career mode in the game, as it stands? So far, to me at least, the vision for GTSport is crystal clear and it's focused on online racing and the entire offline racing portion of the game is focused on training you and preparing you for that experience. In fact, it's probably the most focused full game of the entire series.

 

[CSLACR]

I respect what Kaz has done overall, it's a shame to see the series going the way it has been though, with the last full game that didn't need years of patchwork being almost 15 years ago.

I'd like to say "oh Kaz is just making sure it's perfect", but that wasn't the case for either of the last massively delayed and unfinished games, so it's most likely not the case now.
(insert gt6 wasn't officially delayed remarks here)
But it's not hard to release an unfinished game on time. Or late.

Every day the "ps5 will be here before GTS" jokes gain credibility, and while some people find reason to believe it isn't laugh worthy, it really truly is.

You would think PD was mastering quantum physics for a PS9 while other games simply master basic addition and subtraction for Atari the way games are coming out...(or not)

 

[I6sexus]

I respect what Kaz has done overall, it's a shame to see the series going the way it has been though, with the last full game that didn't need years of patchwork being almost 15 years ago.

I'd like to say "oh Kaz is just making sure it's perfect", but that wasn't the case for either of the last massively delayed and unfinished games, so it's most likely not the case now.
(insert gt6 wasn't officially delayed remarks here)
But it's not hard to release an unfinished game on time. Or late.

Every day the "ps5 will be here before GTS" jokes gain credibility, and while some people find reason to believe it isn't laugh worthy, it really truly is.

You would think PD was mastering quantum physics for a PS9 while other games simply master basic addition and subtraction for Atari the way games are coming out...(or not)

So very true.

They seem to become incompetent after the PS2 era, now most developers struggled on PS3 they could some what be forgiven. But the entire industry went full throttle on the PS4, now 3+ years into a gen not even a demo been released. Even more shameful 3 Forza games released in the same time frame, one biging a launch title.

PD and KAz have lost all credibility, honestly if not tied to Sony and the mass success of the Playstation. They would have been out of business already.

 

[Samus]

It is also hard to totally respect someone who doesn't seem to respect you. One large example of this is PD/Kaz asking GTP to set up a Q&A forum for fans to ask him questions, we all spent a lot of time and care crafting messages and he didn't even bother to turn up. It made Jordan look foolish but it also lowered the respect for Kaz, that he couldn't even be bothered after all the time and effort put into it.

 

[ALB123]

It is also hard to totally respect someone who doesn't seem to respect you. One large example of this is PD/Kaz asking GTP to set up a Q&A forum for fans to ask him questions, we all spent a lot of time and care crafting messages and he didn't even bother to turn up. It made Jordan look foolish but it also lowered the respect for Kaz, that he couldn't even be bothered after all the time and effort put into it.

I had forgotten all about that. That was a good one... 👍 But didn't he go on Reddit and answer like 6 questions?

 

[super_gt]

he didn't even bother to turn up.

Instead of him @OFFICIAL Kaz showed up.

 

[Dave A]

I think he has to be respected but I think he's been given too much freedom and I don't think he can reign himself in enough to meet his professional responsibilities. He's a perfectionist, nothing wrong with that, but sometimes you need people next to you to kerb that a little so you don't lose too much time. When you're the guy at the top you only get those people next to you if you're humble enough to accept you need them.

The inevitable delay every GT game goes through before its released don't do him or PD and favours. You look at Turn 10 and they're so well oiled they can churn out a proper Forza every 2 years. PD don't need to do that, and there are things that Turn 10 do that I don't like such as cars from 1 release being held back as DLC for the next game when it's the same assets. But PD could learn a lot from Turn 10 in managing time and expectations.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think he has to be respected but I think he's been given too much freedom and I don't think he can reign himself in enough to meet his professional responsibilities. He's a perfectionist, nothing wrong with that, but sometimes you need people next to you to kerb that a little so you don't lose too much time. When you're the guy at the top you only get those people next to you if you're humble enough to accept you need them.

The inevitable delay every GT game goes through before its released don't do him or PD and favours. You look at Turn 10 and they're so well oiled they can churn out a proper Forza every 2 years. PD don't need to do that, and there are things that Turn 10 do that I don't like such as cars from 1 release being held back as DLC for the next game when it's the same assets. But PD could learn a lot from Turn 10 in managing time and expectations.

IMO, perfectionist, when it comes to Kaz, is confused with "pushes the existing hardware over the limit and then struggles with compromising the game get it running well enough to release." Does a perfectionist release a game with lousy AI? Does a perfectionist release a game with seriously outdated car and track models just to pad the car and track count? Does a perfectionist release games with cars that can be confused with vacuum cleaners in a blind hearing test? Does a perfectionist release a simulation where camber doesn't work and ride height tuning is backwards?

A perfectionist would release a small, tight, well functioning game that is industry standard in as many areas as possible given the resources available, where everything is the same level of quality and anything that turns out to be not working as it should, has resources targeting it's resolution immediately. At least, that's how I see it.

 

[Samus]

Always makes me laugh when people say that, Kaz is not a perfectionist.

noun
noun: perfectionist; plural noun: perfectionists
1.
a person who refuses to accept any standard short of perfection.


I particularly enjoy that the dictionary definition uses the word standard. Because those are all the proof you need Kaz is not a perfectionist. A perfectionist would not have included those on PS3 under any circumstances.

 

[rogerthatone]

Him ? Yes. His advisors, Hell NO. $$$,$$$,$$$.$$ Note, respect goes both ways.

 

[Samus]

His advisors

Who are they and what do you think they advised him on?

 

[Dave A]

IMO, perfectionist, when it comes to Kaz, is confused with "pushes the existing hardware over the limit and then struggles with compromising the game get it running well enough to release." Does a perfectionist release a game with lousy AI? Does a perfectionist release a game with seriously outdated car and track models just to pad the car and track count? Does a perfectionist release games with cars that can be confused with vacuum cleaners in a blind hearing test? Does a perfectionist release a simulation where camber doesn't work and ride height tuning is backwards?

A perfectionist would release a small, tight, well functioning game that is industry standard in as many areas as possible given the resources available, where everything is the same level of quality and anything that turns out to be not working as it should, has resources targeting it's resolution immediately. At least, that's how I see it.

It depends on your definition of perfection, absolute perfection is impossible therefore if you apply the definiition literally, no one is a perfectionist because all things fall short. In terms of trying to push a system to it's limits, then in my opinion, Kaz is a perfectionist because it's what he seems to strive to do with every release amongst other things. You could easilly agrue that small, tight, well functioning game couldn't be perfect, because it's not big enough to provide as much enjoyment as a larger, longer game that perhaps has a few issues, but I'm digressing.

I don't dissagree with your points per se in relation to Gran Turismo being a flawed game, but to pick up on that single word from my post and nothing else is to miss the entire point I made. Which is not to argue whether or not Kaz is a perfectionist or what your or my definition of that label means in Kaz's case, but to raise a point about what he might, in my opinion, be a cause for the number of people who feel that thier expectations have not been met time and time again. Too much freedom and for whatever reason, not enough people close enough to him who have the power or confidence to reign him in.

 

[Tyrone B]

I often credit Gran Turismo for being the reason why I am so into cars today, so of course I respect Kaz. However, it is a great shame that Gran Turismo isn't better than it is.

 

[Fat Tyre]

Even more shameful 3 Forza games released in the same time frame, one biging a launch title.

They have actually released four games since then, also I bet that Forza 7 will be announced before we get GTS's release date.

 

[BoneSawTX]

I respect him for what he did early with GT, and if it wasn't for him I wouldn't have Forza Motorsport to enjoy.

 

[JakeMR2]

and if it wasn't for him I wouldn't have Forza Motorsport to enjoy

Well, we need to create the classic liveries from GT1 to 2. I have Forza Motorsport 2 and 4 they seem to rival GT pretty well.

 

[Imari]

He's a perfectionist...

He's pretty demonstrably not a perfectionist. A perfectionist doesn't design two games with standard cars, for starters.

The reality is that he's just like every other designer, he has his priorities and he makes compromises to meet them to the standards he desires.

 

[Dave A]

He's pretty demonstrably not a perfectionist. A perfectionist doesn't design two games with standard cars, for starters.

The reality is that he's just like every other designer, he has his priorities and he makes compromises to meet them to the standards he desires.

He always tries to push the console to it's limits, that's one way of striving for relative perfection. Whatver you'd label him though, him being a perfectionist or not wasn't the point of my post, it's that he has too much control to do as he wants and he's clearly not capable of managing the studio by himself. He needs someone above him to reign him in and make him work to deadlines and put his ideas into a certain order of priority, because he doesn't seem to be very good at that himself.

 

[GT6mebe]

He's without a doubt one of the best directors. GT has a lot of its distinction, uniqueness and ambition thanks to him.

 

[Imari]

He always tries to push the console to it's limits, that's one way of striving for relative perfection. Whatver you'd label him though, him being a perfectionist or not wasn't the point of my post, it's that he has too much control to do as he wants and he's clearly not capable of managing the studio by himself. He needs someone above him to reign him in and make him work to deadlines and put his ideas into a certain order of priority, because he doesn't seem to be very good at that himself.

I agree with your overall point.

I would like to continue with the perfectionist discussion though, because it's an attribute that's often assigned to Kaz and I think it really doesn't fit, in any form.

Pushing the console to it's limits isn't a form of perfectionism. It's something that every developer intends to do. Particularly AAA and first party studios, who exist in part to hype the system hardware.

Arguably, not pushing the console to it's absolute limits in order to have a stable, consistent experience is more indicative of perfectionism. In that case the developer will not accept any deviation from how the game is supposed to run, and will sacrifice other things to achieve that consistency of vision.

I think Kaz is visionary, in the sense that he has a lot of forward thinking ideas. I don't think he's visionary in the sense that he's necessarily ahead of the development curve and implementing features that will be standard in five years time. From all we can see, he's quite a long way behind at the moment.

And he's certainly not a perfectionist in any sense, his last two game have been sprawling sets of features of highly varying quality. Some were highly polished, some were very much not.

I think the closest you'll see to perfectionism in games these days comes from small indie developers who can take ten years to make everything exactly as they want. Big studios will never have that luxury, and a perfectionist director will have a hell of a time running one. See what happened to Kojima. Konami being douchenozzels aside, he took five years to make half a (very good) game. That's not acceptable, companies need return on investment more often than that.

In order to work with the big budgets one has to put aside the indie way of thinking and accept that deadlines are a thing, and plan accordingly. I think some of the auteurs that are attached to big studios have had a hard time making that transition from the times when a team was a couple dozen people at best working out of someone's basement.

 

[Samus]

Agreed. The thing with a perfectionist is that of course none of them can actually be perfect all the time, but the idea is is they constantly strive for it. In terms of games a true perfectionist is still going to release a game with flaws and imperfections, but they're things just out of control, despite all efforts, these imperfections remain.

Including PS2 models in PS3 games is not something out of the control of Kaz. A perfectionist would've brushed those aside as soon as they got PS3 dev kits, never to be seen again. A perfectionist would rather have less cars than a bunch of imperfect ones. There might still be flaws in some of the new PS3 models, they wouldn't be all perfect, but they'd be aiming for perfection.

Another key trait of a perfectionist is..

"You have an all-or-nothing approach. It’s either you do everything well, or you don’t do it at all. Everything in between is a no-go."

Again, plenty of evidence Kaz doesn't work this way with many things included in games that clearly weren't fully polished, they were thrown in because he wanted more "stuff". A perfectionist would wait to include them until they're totally ready.

In many ways GT5 Prologue is probably the game most like the result of a perfectionist. The others, not so much, and certainly not games a true perfectionist would allow out of the door.

 

[Dave A]

I agree with your overall point.

I would like to continue with the perfectionist discussion though, because it's an attribute that's often assigned to Kaz and I think it really doesn't fit, in any form.

Pushing the console to it's limits isn't a form of perfectionism. It's something that every developer intends to do. Particularly AAA and first party studios, who exist in part to hype the system hardware.

Arguably, not pushing the console to it's absolute limits in order to have a stable, consistent experience is more indicative of perfectionism. In that case the developer will not accept any deviation from how the game is supposed to run, and will sacrifice other things to achieve that consistency of vision.

I think Kaz is visionary, in the sense that he has a lot of forward thinking ideas. I don't think he's visionary in the sense that he's necessarily ahead of the development curve and implementing features that will be standard in five years time. From all we can see, he's quite a long way behind at the moment.

And he's certainly not a perfectionist in any sense, his last two game have been sprawling sets of features of highly varying quality. Some were highly polished, some were very much not.

I think the closest you'll see to perfectionism in games these days comes from small indie developers who can take ten years to make everything exactly as they want. Big studios will never have that luxury, and a perfectionist director will have a hell of a time running one. See what happened to Kojima. Konami being douchenozzels aside, he took five years to make half a (very good) game. That's not acceptable, companies need return on investment more often than that.

In order to work with the big budgets one has to put aside the indie way of thinking and accept that deadlines are a thing, and plan accordingly. I think some of the auteurs that are attached to big studios have had a hard time making that transition from the times when a team was a couple dozen people at best working out of someone's basement.

For the sake of my throwaway comment I certainly won't dissagree with any of this. I will just reiterate that by the definition of "perfectionist" no one can be considered one, so the definition can't be taken literally.

You can strive for relative perfection in one area at the expense of others, it just depends how extreme you want the scope of that search for perfection to be, 1 thing, 2 things, 50 things, etc, no one will manage to strive for relative perfection in 100% of the things they do in thier lives so there has to be some sacrifice in order for the label to apply to anyone. Anyway, how you want to describe Kaz is up to you, I'm not going to argue that he is or isn't a perfectionist, it wasn't a key point in my post or something I intended for people to get caught up on.

 

[Toysuprahot]

For the sake of my throwaway comment I certainly won't dissagree with any of this. I will just reiterate that by the definition of "perfectionist" no one can be considered one, so the definition can't be taken literally.

You can strive for relative perfection in one area at the expense of others, it just depends how extreme you want the scope of that search for perfection to be, 1 thing, 2 things, 50 things, etc, no one will manage to strive for relative perfection in 100% of the things they do in thier lives so there has to be some sacrifice in order for the label to apply to anyone. Anyway, how you want to describe Kaz is up to you, I'm not going to argue that he is or isn't a perfectionist, it wasn't a key point in my post or something I intended for people to get caught up on.

A perfectionist does not let other areas neglected when doing a task, by definition he wants every single thing he does to be as perfect as possible, regardless of time or amount of assets that he will develop by doing so. Kaz has done the exact opposite throughout the last years by putting quantity above quality. If Kaz was a perfectionist, I can tell you the notion of "standard" cars wouldn't exist today. If Kaz had wanted to go the perfectionist way in GT5, a lot of things would have been different.
Every car would be premium, every track would have time and weather transition, sound of each car would be very good, physics engine would have had a much more important focus, online system would be way more stable, AI would have been much better, and etc..

A perfectionist does not tolerate something that comes incomplete or poor.

 

[Dave A]

A perfectionist does not let other areas neglected when doing a task, by definition he wants every single thing he does to be as perfect as possible, regardless of time or amount of assets that he will develop by doing so. Kaz has done the exact opposite throughout the last years by putting quantity above quality. If Kaz was a perfectionist, I can tell you the notion of "standard" cars wouldn't exist today. If Kaz had wanted to go the perfectionist way in GT5, a lot of things would have been different.
Every car would be premium, every track would have time and weather transition, sound of each car would be very good, physics engine would have had a much more important focus, online system would be way more stable, AI would have been much better, and etc..

A perfectionist does not tolerate something that comes incomplete or poor.

Then nobody in the world is a perfectionist.

 

[FoRiZon]

Then nobody in the world is a perfectionist.

Which is the point. It's a spectrum.

Imagine 0 as unorganized hell and 1 as perfect heaven. Anyone or everything can only attain at best between those numbers. In no way Forza or Driveclub for example are perfect. But relatively speaking they did something much closer to what fans want.

 

[Samus]

Then nobody in the world is a perfectionist.

There are. The difference is someone who constantly strives for perfection but sometimes fails and someone who doesn't even try to attain perfection, like Kaz. Kaz wasn't trying to attain perfection when he included PS2 cars on a PS3 game, he didn't try to be perfect and just fall short. He purposely included something he knew wasn't close to perfect.

 

[fggnb]

Kaz has a true passion of cars. You can feel it when you play GT. Musics, menus, light reflections on cars, atmosphere, fictional tracks, perfect mix of Kei cars, supercars, hatchbacks, race cars, concept cars ... This game is so romantic and refined, you have to like and respect this man. I played every track racing or simulation games and GT is the only where I find this sensation.