And as good as some things forza might get, it just doesn't compete when it comes to sheer quality. the attention to detail (and budget) in the GT series just blows forza away.
I agree with a lot of the points you made, but I don't think you're giving enough credit to Microsoft and the work they have done on Froza 2, especially compared to Forza, but even to GT4.
Yes, FZ2 is by no means a perfect sim racing game and there are several short comings.
While it maybe true the AI driver's aren't as "smart" as one might like to see, they are a good deal more aware of the other cars than in GT4 which act as nothing more than drone cars - great for accurate testing, lousy for realistic racing environment.
While not perfect, the driving physics of FZ2 seem largely a step up from the previous game. As objective as some try to be, it's very hard to avoid subjective opinions when it comes to "accurate car physics", so that's one debate I personally try to avoid as it's hard to actually prove. That said, from my own experience playing FZ2 and GT4 I think they both offer an overall very satisfying driving experience for most of the cars I have driven in.
While the damage effects in FZ2 are still largely aesthetic and not terribly realistic, you absolutely have to give MS & FZ2 extra credit for it's multi-level damage options, allowing the player to select how real they want the damage to impact their car. That alone is a reason to play FZ2 over any current GT game. 👍
While it's true, FZ2 still has a very limited selection of cars, especially classic cars
, you have to give it credit for including an advanced livery editor, allowing players to customize the "look" of most of the cars in the game. OK, maybe for some that's a bit hokey, but I like the idea of offering players some individuality.
While it maybe true the whole "auction" thing is a bit gimmicky, personally I think it's a great concept, and a great way to add a whole new element to the game, much in the way photo mode did when GT4 came out. That said, the FZ2 auction house is not without its own set of problems, but MS deserve serious kudos on thinking outside the box and adding a very nice optional feature to the series.
While it is also true that some of FZ2's options cannot be enjoyed by all 360 owners, like being able to watch replays, participate in the auction house, and race online. However, unlike GT4, at least FZ2 allows for online racing for up to 8 players, yes at a cost, but still. No amount of money will ever allow you to play GT4 online
(LAN doesn't count 
) .
Now before you say,
"Hey, it's not fair to compare a game that is 2 1/2 years older and programmed for a console that is over seven years old to a game that is brand new and designed for a "next-gen" console. " Let me just say that it is fair only so it can be pointed out how much effort Microsoft has put into FZ2 as compared to what they had before and what other similar games that are already out offered. 👍
When you consider it in those terms, you must admit that FZ2 is a significant step in the right direction, and thus deserves credit, and shouldn't be so easily dismissed by suggesting that the GT series just blows Forza away.
i'm not saying Forza sucks. i'm saying they are in a different league because they are. GT is far more known wordlwide than forza is.
The fact remains, if you ask people about Forza chances are outside the US they don't even know what it is.
But there's a very good chance they'll know what GT is.
Excellent point. Of course, part of the problem has been the lack of acceptance of the 360 in some international markets, most notably Japan, but I also believe FZ2 is doing a lot to change this, at least in many parts of Europe.
People keep pointing at forza as if PD is scared to death of it... When in japan most people don't know what Forza even is.
When Kaz was asked how Forza's online features compare to the ones in GT he replied "i wouldn't known, i haven't played forza"
If he really said that, and he really was speaking the truth, then shame on him!
It's important for everyone in the industry to know what their competition has done and is working on, so that they can not only learn from other developer's mistakes as much as their own, but so that they can also incorporate and enhance excellent new ideas and features.
Arrogance and stubbornness to not recognize what your competitors are doing that works and that customers enjoy means gamers suffer because a developer doesn’t want to look like they are just copying a feature in another game. The only people that suffer from this are the gamers. If some new idea or feature works, then by all means developers should embrace it no matter who came up with it first.
Frankly though, I just don't believe he either said that, or if he did, he was telling the truth. If anything, like GT4 was to FZ2, it would be a huge mistake for PD not to evaluate each feature in FZ2 as a potential feature in GT5 assuming market research shows these features to be extremely popular among potential customers.
Acting all high and mighty, and pretending that your game is the greatest and has no competition worthy of even looking at will lead to disaster!
Yeah... he sounds really worried to me.
It's not about being worried about your competition though. It's about having respect for your competition, and always knowing as much as you can on what they are doing and what they are offering so that you are always putting yourself in a position to give consumers more of what they want, and not just simply something "different".
Why don't we see GT vs other games in all those discussions?
I'll tell you right now, cause it's ALL FANBOYS, most of those people aren't even real sim fans.
Why don't we see 20 pages threads about "GT vs Enthusia" (which by the way, i consider to be, at this time the best of the 3 when it comes to the simulation, by quite a bit.)
Or why don't we see 20 pages threads in other website about "GT vs rFactor" or "Enthusia vs Forza" or any other sim comparos for that matter?
Actually I see plenty of those threads... but if you are looking for them here in the Gran Turismo 5 forum that maybe why you are having a hard time finding them.
All this is, is a Xbox vs playstation argument, no matter how much people try to debate otherwise, if it wasn't we'd see 20-30 pages threads on other simulation comparos, and we don't.
While I agree many people will make bias judgments on both Forza and GT based on their "allegiance" for one console over another, I think you'll find many people will gladly offer objective analysis of games no matter what console they may happen to be exclusive for and no matter which console they might have a preference for.
And again, the reason i consider GT *is* on a league of it's own is because they got an unmatched budget, and while the simulation still has a lot of room for improvement, there is a few departments where no other game touches it.
I'm not going to try and disagree with you, but how do you know for a fact that PD has a larger budget to work with than Microsoft. After all, as much as it pisses me off as an investor, MS has shown time after time they are more than happy to dump a lot of cash into their Xbox division, now maybe much of it isn't going to development as much as marketing, exclusivity deals, and service repairs/replacements, but I expect MS considers Forza to be a very important franchise, not as important as Halo, but still important enough to warrant a generous developmental budget don't you think?
The polish in the GT series is not only not equaled by any other franchise, there's no games that pay as much attention to detail as these guys.
From playing GT:HD and what I've seen of GT5
you may be right, but GT4 was not without its fair share of blemishes, some very annoying blemishes at that. Blemishes that I'm sure Microsoft wisely learned from PD's mistakes and improved upon in FZ2. Sure FZ2 also has its fair share of blemishes, and hope fully PD will also learn from those mistakes as well.
As gamers, we want developers to not only learn from their own mistakes, but to learn from the mistakes of others as well. If all developers ignored what their competition was doing, we would see the same mistakes repeated over and over again, and see a good deal less innovation and enhanced features.
You can debate all you want about it, but all you have to do is look at forza's graphics in comparasion to GT5, The xbox 360 is capable of much more than what the Forza guys pushed it for, there's framerate issues evry now and then (in GT they are SUPER rare) and the shaders in Forza just plain suck.
Well I think its WAY to early to try and make any fair comparisons between FZ2 and GT5, but I do understand what you are saying, and I agree with some of your points.
GT is a world known franchise, Forza is not. deal with it.
I have to disagree with you there. Even in Japan I'm sure Forza is well known, and certainly in parts of the world where the Xbox and 360 have sold well. GT and Forza are not like some fan based arcade game. I suspect the core user base are true fans of automobiles, and sim driving games, and thus would be well aware of all games that fit that category... as there aren't many console games that do.
As someone who just wants to see these types of games flourish, I certainly hope Sony, Microsoft, and 3rd party developers are paying very close attention to what each other are doing so that instead of repeating the same mistakes, or not utilizing the same excellent features, they all work at making the best possible games that we consumers want to play. 👍👍
Are you saying Forza is chessy or cheesy?
