Drugs

[emad]

Why do you guys continue to say "ban them all"?

I'll ask this question yet again why not decriminalize it? That 5 years of jail time means YOU have to pay to put that person on trial through taxes. YOU are paying for that person's 5 years in jail, and that person is only learning how to better avoid getting caught. Why not legalize this so that the war on drugs can be fought against the drugs that can truly damage your body. I'm sure Ledhed can bring up volumes of data more on the detrimental effects of so called hard drugs like heroin and cocaine than anyone can provide for marijuana. So based on that alone, why not target the dealers that sell those and merely fine the people who are caught carrying them? Not only does it save you tax money, but it will give this war on drugs a slightly better chance of doing something useful.

Keep this in mind - it doesn't matter what you're talking about. If someone wants something bad enough, chances are, other people want it too. If other people want it, that means there's an established market and someone is going to find a way to profit from it. This goes for the food you buy, the clothes you wear, to toys, to harmful things like banned firearms, drugs, etc, etc.

@ MrkMkr on the topic of you saying ban it all including alcohol - you of all people should realize the HUGE detrimental impact prohibition would have on US economy today. Millions of people are work for the tobacco and alcohol industries and each of those millions would instantly be jobless if you were to ban these substances. Put them out of their jobs and the US economy suffers, they can't pay their taxes meaning the government loses more money. If the government goes broke, you'll eventually have anarchy. It's an extreme example, but I think it fits.

Ledhed - I love you maan. I step away for 2 hours and you throw in nothing but valid points 👍
By the way, would you have any info on the harmful chemicals contained in the plant and thc itself? After all, many people make brownies or cookies out of it and it's not too difficult to separate the THC from the plant itself.

 

[slowman]

Those who were participating in Famine's "Smoking" thread are familiar with my viewpoints on marijuana usage. To add to this, I don't think any other drugs should be legal.

Gateway Drug - No. I'm happy with my pot.

Medical Use - I don't know about this... I don't have glaucoma, cancer, or anything else. It does help when I have bad headaches though. Tylenol (and the like) doesn't really work for me .

It's extremely selfish and irrisponsible to use in the house (or at all really) if you have children, or a spouse that doesn't share your interest. I also think that anyone that is offended by it should not have it pushed on them nor should it be used around them.

Health detriments - Yes I know its bad for me. So are cigarettes, alcohol, twinkies, microwaves, not washing your hands, sharing silverware or pop bottles with other people, standing water, dirt, car exhaust, smog, putting pen caps in your mouth, biting your nails, extreme heat or cold, dying, and living. What's your point?

And I know MrktMkr1986 made the point to me (in Famine's "Smoking" thread) that no matter how you try to justify it, it's illegal. Have you ever gone even 1mph above the speed limit, spit on the sidewalk, swore in public, sped up to make it through a yellow light, chirped your tires (even by accident? It's still illegal!), not stopped completely at a stop sign, followed anybody too close on a road, not allowed a pedestrian the right of way, downloaded music from a P2P program, copied a CD for someone, or even let your dog poop in a park and not pick it up?

I don't want to hear anybody say that they've NEVER broken ANY laws EVER.

And my last point to the people that "just don't like it". Don't do it. It's that simple. I'm not pushing "smoke pot" on you, don't push "don't smoke pot" on me.

After all, many people make brownies or cookies out of it and it's not too difficult to separate the THC from the plant itself.

Exactly. This works out well for people that don't want the smoke, but want the THC. One of the best ways to do this is with a device called a "vaporizer'. It heats the plant material just enough to allow the THC to be released, but not enough to make smoke. It's not quite as efficient as just smoking, but it works. You can cook with THC oil as well. It's very easy to make an oil that is 70% (or more!) THC. This can be cooked into brownies or cookies or... anything really. Anything that requires cooking with oil.

 

[PS]

Cookies?! Crap, I never even thought of cookies! Cake is great too! God, it goes in everything.

 

[ledhed]

Who are they ? As in " they should ban them all " Who are they that are so much better that they can decide things for me. The same people I gather who will decide what freedoms I and others should be " limited " to . Hitler made sure the Germans had limited freedom . Stalin made sure the Russian people had limited freedom. So who will decide what freedoms we will be limited to ? I am just dying to meet this class of super human who will decide whats right for all of us..they being so much better and all .Next thing you know " they " will decide that eating too much is banned because its harmfull..or would you like to see what comes up under health risks , when you google "obesity" ? Again you have those that would save us from ourselves...much like the Spanish missionaries saved the Native Americans.."they" thought they new better also. People are too stupid to decide what to do with thier own bodies ...so I know !... we must ban ownership of ourselves and leave it to OTHERS to decide what we do with ourselves . I just cant wait to meet them ..maybe "they" will let me join the club !

 

[a6m5]

Who are they ? As in " they should ban them all " Who are they that are so much better that they can decide things for me. The same people I gather who will decide what freedoms I and others should be " limited " to . Hitler made sure the Germans had limited freedom . Stalin made sure the Russian people had limited freedom. So who will decide what freedoms we will be limited to ? I am just dying to meet this class of super human who will decide whats right for all of us..they being so much better and all .Next thing you know " they " will decide that eating too much is banned because its harmfull..or would you like to see what comes up under health risks , when you google "obesity" ? Again you have those that would save us from ourselves...much like the Spanish missionaries saved the Native Americans.."they" thought they new better also. People are too stupid to decide what to do with thier own bodies ...so I know !... we must ban ownership of ourselves and leave it to OTHERS to decide what we do with ourselves . I just cant wait to meet them ..maybe "they" will let me join the club !

I'm sorry if I offended anybody with my post, ealier. I was just saying, I wouldn't be against banning marijuana, alcohol and tobacco.

P.S. Let us smoke pot or you're a Hitler is a bit much, IMO.

 

[ledhed]

I'm sorry if I offended anybody with my post, ealier. I was just saying, I wouldn't be against banning marijuana, alcohol and tobacco.

P.S. Let us smoke pot or you're a Hitler is a bit much, IMO.

Not the point . If you get on the slope of "limiting freedoms" as I have seen in other post , you put yoursellf on the same slope as those esteemed leaders.
you either have freedom or you have no freedom except .......... what " they " allow you.

 

[a6m5]

Not the point . If you get on the slope of "limiting freedoms" as I have seen in other post , you put yoursellf on the same slope as those esteemed leaders.
you either have freedom or you have no freedom except .......... what " they " allow you.

I do understand your concern. However, government banning use of marijuana, due to its' side effects doesn't limit our personal freedom, IMO.

 

[ledhed]

I do understand your concern. However, government banning use of marijuana, due to its' side effects doesn't limit our personal freedom, IMO.

Only if they catch you

 

[a6m5]

Only if they catch you

 

[K_Speed]

Drugs should defenetly not be legalized. I think weed should be ok though.
I think the laws in the netherlands for drug usage are fine! Smoke weed in youre home or "certain" bars. If I had children now, I would of course let my kids go out to party. But not if I have in mind that all hard drugs are legalized.

I wouldnt compare Alcohol to other drugs like Ecstacy. The E can make you addicted after the first try, but Alcohol has a long period till it does. Im 17 and I go out to party with my friends. We drink Vodka, Beer etc. etc. but its not like were addicted to it now. We sometimes feel like "No, Im not gonna drink today!". Or just have a beer or 2. Alcohol in Europe is a culture anyways, just like other parts of the world.

IMO:

Alcohol--Yes
Cigarettes--Yes
Marijuana--Yes, with limitation (Holland)
Other Hard Drugs--No (let them be illegal, makes it more fun )

 

[ledhed]

In a Nutshell
Yes
No
YES
The drug generally isn't more harmful than alcohol or tobacco if used in moderation.
Limiting the use of the drug intrudes on personal freedom.
Legalization would mean a lower price; thus, related crimes (like theft) would be reduced.
There are medical benefits such as the those for cancer patients.
Street justice related to drug disputes would be reduced.
It could be a source of additional tax revenues.
Police and court resources would be freed up for more serious crimes.
Drug dealers (including some terrorists) would lose most or all of their business.
The FDA or others could regulate the quality and safety of drugs.
Drug busts often trap young people in a flawed system that turns them into lifelong criminals.
NO

Marijuana is often used as a stepping-stone drug, leading to heroin, cocaine, or other harder drugs.
Stoned driving and other dangers would be increased.
Some consider use of the drug as morally wrong.
Legalization would increase the chances of the drug falling into the hands of kids.
Physical damage would be done to users that abuse the drug.

 

[K_Speed]

In a Nutshell



Marijuana is often used as a stepping-stone drug, leading to heroin, cocaine, or other harder drugs.

All teachers on here say that. But its not that true imo. I have friends who almost regularly smoke it but would never do heroin or cocain. First of all because they only "love" their weed, second out of a certain boundary for them.

Legalization would increase the chances of the drug falling into the hands of kids.
Physical damage would be done to users that abuse the drug.

I am not sure about this. Here in europe we have experienced that, where marijuana is legal, people use it less. Its not worse in Holland or Switzerland than it is in Germany or the US. In fact, its a lot worse in germany than in holland.

Its like, you know in Holland that you could legally smoke a joint, so you dont have to worry about getting stuff for yoself. So you just walk into a cafe and smoke one their and maybe take a lil home. But in germany for example people greedily buy the weed.

Hard topic really, I mean, I wouldn legalize weed in the US but I would legalize in a smaller country like Austria or Luxemburg.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

All teachers on here say that. But its not that true imo.

That's like saying, "all teachers here say hydrochloric acid burns -- but is not that true imo."

I have friends who almost regularly smoke it but would never do heroin or cocain.

... Oh please...

First of all because they only "love" their weed, second out of a certain boundary for them.

Apparently, they've already stretched the boundary...

I am not sure about this. Here in europe we have experienced that, where marijuana is legal, people use it less.

WRONG! The Netherlands has led Europe in the "liberalization" of drug policy. "Coffee shops" began to open throughout the Netherlands in the 70s, where marijuana products were for sale. Possession and sale of marijuana are not legal, but coffee shops are allowed to operate and sell marijuana under certain restrictions, including a limit of no more than 5 grams sold to a person at any one time, no alcohol or hard drugs, no minors, no advertising etc. In the Netherlands, it is illegal to sell or possess marijuana products. So coffee shop operators must purchase their marijuana products from illegal drug trafficking organizations anyway! Due to public dissatisfaction with the government’s policy, the Dutch government began scaling back the quantity of marijuana available in coffee shops from 5 to 3 grams.

Its not worse in Holland or Switzerland than it is in Germany or the US. In fact, its a lot worse in germany than in holland.

Drug abuse has increased in the Netherlands. From 1984 to 1996, marijuana use among 18-25 year olds in Holland increased twofold. Since legalization of marijuana, heroin addiction levels in Holland have tripled and perhaps even quadrupled by some estimates.

Switzerland has some of the most liberal drug policies in Europe. In late 1980s, Zurich experimented with what became known as Needle Park, where addicts could openly purchase drugs and inject heroin without police intervention. Zurich became the hub for drug addicts across Europe, until the experiment was ended, and "Needle Park" was shut down. Drug legalization DOES NOT WORK. It was tried in Alaska as well -- as I mentioned before -- AND IT DOES NOT WORK.

Its like, you know in Holland that you could legally smoke a joint, so you dont have to worry about getting stuff for yoself. So you just walk into a cafe and smoke one their and maybe take a lil home. But in germany for example people greedily buy the weed.

Hard topic really, I mean, I wouldn legalize weed in the US but I would legalize in a smaller country like Austria or Luxemburg.

NO LEGALIZATION PERIOD! ANYWHERE!!!

Many proponents of drug legalization or decriminalization claim that drug use will be reduced if drugs were legalized. However, history has not shown this assertion to be true. According to an October 2000 CNN report, marijuana, the illegal drug most often decriminalized, is "continuing to spread in the European Union, with one in five people across the 15-state bloc having tried it at least once."

It’s not just marijuana use that is increasing in Europe. According to the 2001 Annual Report on the State of the Drugs Problem in the European Union, there is a Europe-wide increase in cocaine use. The report also cites a new trend of mixing “base/crack” cocaine with tobacco in a joint at nightspots. With the increase in use, Europe is also seeing an increase in the number of drug users seeking treatment for cocaine use.

On the contrary, Sweden, Finland, and Greece have the STRICTEST policies against drugs in Europe. Sweden’s "zero-tolerance" policy is widely supported within the country and among the various political parties. Drug use is relatively low in the Scandinavian countries.

Hopefully, the following mini-essay will put an end to this discussion:

The use of illegal drugs is illegal because of their intoxicating effects on the brain, their damaging impact on the human body, their impact on behavior, and potential for abuse. Their use threatens the safety, welfare, and health of ALL people -- both user AND non-users.

Legalization would decrease prices and subsequently increase availability of the drugs. Availability is THE leading factor associated with increased drug use and abuse. Increased use of addictive substances leads to increased addiction. As a public health measure (that means ASIDE from crime statistics), statistics show that Prohibition was a tremendous success; it reduced the consumption of alcoholic beverages by 50%, and as a result reduced cirrhosis of the liver by 63%, mental hospital admissions for alcohol psychosis by 60% and arrests for drunk and disorderly behavior by 50%. No assertions, no conjecture... plain and simple facts.

Many drug users commit murder, child and spouse abuse, rape, property damage, assault and other violent crimes whilst under the influence of drugs. User, many of whom are unable to hold jobs, commit robberies not only to obtain drugs, but also to purchase food, shelter, clothing etc. Increased violent crime and increased numbers of criminals will result in even larger prison populations (i.e. LESS freedom for Libertar -- never mind )

Legalizing drugs will not eliminate illegal trafficking of drugs, or the violence associated with the illegal drug trade. A black market would STILL exist REGARDLESS of circumstances -- that is unless ALL psychoactive and addictive drugs in ALL strengths were made available to ALL ages in UNLIMITED quantity.

Drug laws deter people from using drugs. Surveys indicate that the fear of getting in trouble with the law is a major reason why most people choose not to use drugs.

A study of international drug policy and its effects on countries has shown that countries with weak drug law enforcement have had an INCREASE in drug addiction AND CRIME. On the other hand, those with strong drug policies have reduced drug use and enjoy low crime rates. Period.

NO LEGALIZATION OF DRUGS! DOWN WITH THE NORML!!! 👎

 

[Danoff]

Many proponents of drug legalization or decriminalization claim that drug use will be reduced if drugs were legalized. However, history has not shown this assertion to be true.

...and your point is? Drugs are bad mmmmkay?

Making it illegal isn't necessarily right if it'll decrease usage. The ends don't justify the means.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

...and your point is? Drugs are bad mmmmkay?

Making it illegal isn't necessarily right if it'll decrease usage. The ends don't justify the means.

Yes they do... read the edit, please.

 

[emad]

Drug abuse has increased in the Netherlands. From 1984 to 1996, marijuana use among 18-25 year olds in Holland increased twofold. Since legalization of marijuana, heroin addiction levels in Holland have tripled and perhaps even quadrupled by some estimates.

What's your point? Between 1992 and 1997, drug use amongst high school seniors in the USA has gone from 22% to 49% - that's based on a government study. Same sized leap, but in the US it's illegal. This increase in drug use is merely a trend. Look at and compare to numbers of other countries where it's banned. You'll see what I mean.

I mentioned that statistic before, but you completely skipped over it. Why?

Switzerland has some of the most liberal drug policies in Europe. In late 1980s, Zurich experimented with what became known as Needle Park, where addicts could openly purchase drugs and inject heroin without police intervention. Zurich became the hub for drug addicts across Europe, until the experiment was ended, and "Needle Park" was shut down. Drug legalization DOES NOT WORK. It was tried in Alaska as well -- as I mentioned before -- AND IT DOES NOT WORK.

legalizing hard drugs does not work. That's because they're chemically addictive. Heroin addicts have a slim to no chance of being able to quit because their body's chemical balance gets thrown off to such an extent that the withdrawal symptoms are extremely painful.

Many proponents of drug legalization or decriminalization claim that drug use will be reduced if drugs were legalized. However, history has not shown this assertion to be true. According to an October 2000 CNN report, marijuana, the illegal drug most often decriminalized, is "continuing to spread in the European Union, with one in five people across the 15-state bloc having tried it at least once."

That's it? The number is closer to 1 in 3 for Canada and it's illegal here.

The use of illegal drugs is illegal because of their intoxicating effects on the brain, their damaging impact on the human body, their impact on behavior, and potential for abuse. Their use threatens the safety, welfare, and health of ALL people -- both user AND non-users.

So does alcohol, tobacco, and some OTC medications. Why are they legal?

Legalization would decrease prices and subsequently increase availability of the drugs. Availability is THE leading factor associated with increased drug use and abuse. Increased use of addictive substances leads to increased addiction. As a public health measure (that means ASIDE from crime statistics), statistics show that Prohibition was a tremendous success; it reduced the consumption of alcoholic beverages by 50%, and as a result reduced cirrhosis of the liver by 63%, mental hospital admissions for alcohol psychosis by 60% and arrests for drunk and disorderly behavior by 50%. No assertions, no conjecture... plain and simple facts.

Prohibition was a massive failure. It resulted in amateur homebrew ops which were even more dangerous and likely to be poisonous. Gangs and mafioso groups sprung up everywhere trying to supply illegal booze to those who wanted it.
Do a bit of reading. http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-157.html

Many drug users commit murder, child and spouse abuse, rape, property damage, assault and other violent crimes whilst under the influence of drugs. User, many of whom are unable to hold jobs, commit robberies not only to obtain drugs, but also to purchase food, shelter, clothing etc. Increased violent crime and increased numbers of criminals will result in even larger prison populations (i.e. LESS freedom for Libertar -- never mind )

You got that straight out of the movie Reefer Madness, didn't you?

Legalizing drugs will not eliminate illegal trafficking of drugs, or the violence associated with the illegal drug trade. A black market would STILL exist REGARDLESS of circumstances -- that is unless ALL psychoactive and addictive drugs in ALL strengths were made available to ALL ages in UNLIMITED quantity.

We've all agreed here that hard drugs shouldn't be legalized. Legalizing the soft drugs allows law enforcement people to divert their attention to more serious things like cocaine and heroin - both of which are used by less than 10% of the US population, and both of which are extremely harmful to the user and to those around them.

A "black market" exists for underage drinkers and tobacco smokers. The police crack down pretty hard on those groups - to the point where every convenience store in my area checks for ID if you even remotely look to be under the age of 25 even though legal age is 19 here. It's still better than having it completely banned which makes it readily accessible to anyone of any age group so long as they know who to go to.

Drug laws deter people from using drugs. Surveys indicate that the fear of getting in trouble with the law is a major reason why most people choose not to use drugs.

No they don't. If a person wants something, there isn't going to be much anyone else can do to stop them.

A study of international drug policy and its effects on countries has shown that countries with weak drug law enforcement have had an INCREASE in drug addiction AND CRIME. On the other hand, those with strong drug policies have reduced drug use and enjoy low crime rates. Period.

Could it be because the drugs are illegal and so people have to commit crimes to get access to them? Keep in mind that many grow ops are run by organized crime groups who don't do strictly drugs, but other crimes as well. That plays a huge role in crime rates for most areas.

NO LEGALIZATION OF DRUGS! DOWN WITH THE NORML!!! 👎

You have yet to provide a valid reason why.

Give people freedom of choice. Or would you rather our lives be controlled by people who claim to know better?

 

[MrktMkr1986]

What's your point? Between 1992 and 1997, drug use amongst high school seniors in the USA has gone from 22% to 49% - that's based on a government study. Same sized leap, but in the US it's illegal. This increase in drug use is merely a trend. Look at and compare to numbers of other countries where it's banned. You'll see what I mean.

Where did you get this statistic from?

I mentioned that statistic before, but you completely skipped over it. Why?

I don't remember reading that. I would not have skipped over it on purpose.

That's it? The number is closer to 1 in 3 for Canada and it's illegal here.

You act as if that's a small number... as it has no impact on society.

So does alcohol, tobacco, and some OTC medications. Why are they legal?

The only use for alcohol is in my fuel tank. I see no reason for tobacco either. OTC medications are meant to help, not harm, if used properly.

Prohibition was a massive failure.

I was talking about overall health and safety statistics. I also said, I was not including the crime for reasons I will explain below.

It resulted in amateur homebrew ops which were even more dangerous and likely to be poisonous.

Good for them.

Gangs and mafioso groups sprung up everywhere trying to supply illegal booze to those who wanted it.

There were gangs and mafioso groups BEFORE Prohibition. Organized crime did become more prominent during Prohibition, but guess what:

Legalizing drugs will not eliminate illegal trafficking of drugs, or the violence associated with the illegal drug trade. A black market would STILL exist REGARDLESS of circumstances -- that is unless ALL psychoactive and addictive drugs in ALL strengths were made available to ALL ages in UNLIMITED quantity.

Do a bit of reading. http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-157.html

I will read it... then I'll edit the post with my thoughts.

You got that straight out of the movie Reefer Madness, didn't you?

Never heard of that...

We've all agreed here that hard drugs shouldn't be legalized. Legalizing the soft drugs allows law enforcement people to divert their attention to more serious things like cocaine and heroin - both of which are used by less than 10% of the US population, and both of which are extremely harmful to the user and to those around them.

Legalizing soft drugs will only ENCOURAGE people do hard drugs.

Could it be because the drugs are illegal and so people have to commit crimes to get access to them? Keep in mind that many grow ops are run by organized crime groups who don't do strictly drugs, but other crimes as well. That plays a huge role in crime rates for most areas.

If the cultivation and production of these drugs were to stop, THEN what? What if the remaining crops/labs etc. were destroyed and there are no more illegal drugs?

You have yet to provide a valid reason why.

Either you haven't been reading my posts, or you're trying to justify your own habits (past/present).

Give people freedom of choice.

Not if it destroys society. If there is no more society, what good is freedom?

Or would you rather our lives be controlled by people who claim to know better?

Is it better to live or die?

edit: That link you provided is complete and total BS. 👎 His assertions are illogical, and I wouldn't be surprised if those statistics were "altered for effect".

 

[emad]

Where did you get this statistic from?

This is a more up to date version of the same study. I lost the pdf for the one where I got the original reference from. The 22% I stated was from a statistic you yourself posted.
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/marijuana/index.html#availability

This quote from that site is even more interesting:
The Monitoring the Future Study also tracks trends in availability of drugs to youth. From the time the study began in 1975 to 2003, between 83% and 90% of every senior class have said that they could obtain marijuana fairly or very easily.
I can definately see that prohibition of marijuana has helped quite a bit.

You act as if that's a small number... as it has no impact on society.

Not a great impact. If you consider that most university students I know have either done it before or do it regularly and are still getting good grades (more than 3.0) in some of the hardest programs provided by their schools, I see nothing wrong with it.

Legalizing soft drugs will only ENCOURAGE people do hard drugs.

Prove it.
Keep in mind that Alcohol and Tobacco are both considered as hard drugs for their chemical properties.

If the cultivation and production of these drugs were to stop, THEN what? What if the remaining crops/labs etc. were destroyed and there are no more illegal drugs?

Then there will be a black market on illegally imported narcotics which will cost more and be of questionable quality. The higher cost will result in more crime. The questionable quality will result in more injuries and deaths related to the drugs.

Not if it destroys society. If there is no more society, what good is freedom?

Explain what you mean by destroying society.

Is it better to live or die?

Are you saying Marijuana will kill me? I'd like you to name one instance where marijuana was the sole cause of death.


In addition, I'd like to provide some usage charts in the for most drugs in the US from the 70's up to 2001.
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/druguse/index.html

 

[PS]

You act as if that's a small number... as it has no impact on society.

When 33.4% of Canada...CANADA...the WHOLE FREAKING COUNTRY...has smoked weed at least once, and yet we're the 3rd leading nation in most deisrable place to live, I don't really think it does have that much of an impact on society.

Pretty much everyone I know has smoked pot or had pot in another form at one time in their lives, and yet I only know like 5 or 6 people in my school who are in crime related activities. Although in a school of 1700 kids, I'm sure there's more, but those are just the people I'm really familiar with. I think the trend isn't "if you do drugs then...will happen" but more of a "if you drink alcohol...will happen", which fits better.

Since almost everyone smokes weed, and only a few ever really get drunk, i find it's usually the ones who drink that actually commit any crimes. Why? Because it's a lot more intoxicating, much stronger (vodka, gin, whisky, rum, vermouth, rye, etc), but just as easy to come by. When you live in a country where 1/3rd of it has tried weed, and yet we're still in the top 5 most desirable places to live, I think that says something.

[edit]

Not if it destroys society. If there is no more society, what good is freedom?

Why do you think everything will destroy society? Society this, society that, I wouldn't be talking about society if I were an American; you're home to the most freely accesible weapons in the world.

I'd rather be getting high and damaging my lungs every now and then instead of living in fear for my whole life of a home invasion.

Not to mention the fact that alcohol is legal, 10x as worse, just as accessible, and it doesn't destroy society. What do you have to say about that?

 

[MrktMkr1986]

This is a more up to date version of the same study. I lost the pdf for the one where I got the original reference from. The 22% I stated was from a statistic you yourself posted.
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/marijuana/index.html#availability

OK

This quote from that site is even more interesting:
The Monitoring the Future Study also tracks trends in availability of drugs to youth. From the time the study began in 1975 to 2003, between 83% and 90% of every senior class have said that they could obtain marijuana fairly or very easily.
I can definately see that prohibition of marijuana has helped quite a bit.

That does not justify its legalization. Any idiot can say they can obtain pot easily. Hell, I can tell you I can obtain pot easily -- that is beside the point.

Not a great impact. If you consider that most university students I know have either done it before or do it regularly and are still getting good grades (more than 3.0) in some of the hardest programs provided by their schools, I see nothing wrong with it.

I knew of kids in my school that did "harder" drugs and still received higher grades. That does not justify the use/distribution of drugs -- hard/soft.

Then there will be a black market on illegally imported narcotics which will cost more and be of questionable quality. The higher cost will result in more crime. The questionable quality will result in more injuries and deaths related to the drugs.

Which is exactly why they should remain illegal -- with ever tightening restrictions.

Explain what you mean by destroying society.

Depends on YOUR definition of society...

Anyway, family, the community, local organizations etc. will all be negatively impacted with the legalization of drugs.

Are you saying Marijuana will kill me? I'd like you to name one instance where marijuana was the sole cause of death.

Drug-mixing is common occurence. There are plenty. Even still, that DOES NOT jusitfy the legalization of ANY illegal drug.

*be back later*

 

[PS]

That does not justify its legalization. Any idiot can say they can obtain pot easily. Hell, I can tell you I can obtain pot easily -- that is beside the point.

So when 90% of them say they can obtain pot easily, tyou're saynig that the government has made huge advances on the drug trade too?

I knew of kids in my school that did "harder" drugs and still received higher grades. That does not justify the use/distribution of drugs -- hard/soft.

True, but it goes to show that people can still maintain normal lives.

Which is exactly why they should remain illegal -- with ever tightening restrictions.

You're not looking at this logically. Pot does 1/100th the damage of alcohol and 1/10,000,000,000th the damage of cigarettes, and yet they're both legal. It's ridiculous. If cigarettes and alcohol were outlawed too, then they'd both become just a popular and accessible as pot (90%, remember?).

Depends on YOUR definition of society...

All social aspects of those around you.

Anyway, family, the community, local organizations etc. will all be negatively impacted with the legalization of drugs.

How so? Is smoking a joint alone in your room, or even with a few buddies in your room going to suddenly shut down factories in your city? Are old ladies suddenly going to be robbed?

Drug-mixing is common occurence. There are plenty. Even still, that DOES NOT jusitfy the legalization of ANY illegal drug.

I hope not, I haven't seen it yet. It's true of the hard drugs (E, crack, heroin etc), but noone in their right mind (which you can maintain on pot) would ever willfully do hard ones. You have to realize that just because someone smokes or does pot, doesn't mean they're unaware of the consequences of doing heroine or cocaine.

 

[ledhed]

I am still waiting for someone to justify why alcohol and cigarettes are legal and pot is not.
Or is that way too logical a question ?

 

[PS]

I am still waiting for someone to justify why alcohol and cigarettes are legal and pot is not.
Or is that way too logical a question ?

I've been wondering the same thing since last week.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

I am still waiting for someone to justify why alcohol and cigarettes are legal and pot is not.
Or is that way too logical a question ?

I want to reply to this post before I reply to Greg and Emad. In my opinion, neither alcohol or cigarettes have a place in our society. They should be JUST AS ILLEGAL as hard drugs. People have become too "accepting" of alcohol and smoking cigarettes (thanks to marketing...) -- that doesn't justify the legalization of other drugs. Rather, it shows that if ANY other drugs are legalized, the same "acceptance" will take place, and we'll have even more problems to deal with.

Why do you think everything will destroy society? Society this, society that, I wouldn't be talking about society if I were an American; you're home to the most freely accesible weapons in the world.

And Greg, your facetious remarks about America and guns was uncalled for. For the record, I do not own a gun. Stereotype = SMASHED.

 

[PS]

Stereotype = SMASHED.

Aww


check out the hobbies thread though, a lot of people do own and shoot guns.

 

[smellysocks12]

I am not sure about this. Here in europe we have experienced that, where marijuana is legal, people use it less. Its not worse in Holland or Switzerland than it is in Germany or the US. In fact, its a lot worse in germany than in holland.

Its like, you know in Holland that you could legally smoke a joint, so you dont have to worry about getting stuff for yoself. So you just walk into a cafe and smoke one their and maybe take a lil home. But in germany for example people greedily buy the weed.

Hard topic really, I mean, I wouldn legalize weed in the US but I would legalize in a smaller country like Austria or Luxemburg.

Yes, over here in the Netherlands they are only allowed to sell 5 grams to a person, and it is only legal to have 5 grams with you. More is illegal. Of course someone could buy weed in every coffee shop and have more, but that is his own responisibility, he won't be able to make profit of it anyway since everyone knows where to buy it for less.


Legalizing weed in the USA would be a good idea, half of the Americans already do smoke it and in most occasions they won't get arrested either if the police knows that they smoked it. Just like in the 1920's you saw how much good it did to ban alcohol (which is a worse drug than weed, since that is physically addictive) in the USA... organized crime made lots of money by having illegal breweries / casinos. Now alcohol is legal and nobody complains. If weed would get legalized in the USA now, the upcoming months people would massively buy it, but after that the demand for it will die off since the 'coolness' factor is gone.

 

[Zero]

This is my honest opinion.....Marijuana is not a drug for this reason alone. It is a plant that grows from the earth and is therefore living. There are no processes for changing the weed plant into what I and millions of others smoke. You simply take a nug off of the plant, break it down so that there are no stems and/or seeds (depending on the kind of weed you smoke) and then you pack it or roll it. That is it, that's the process. Cocaine comes from a plant as do the opium based drugs, but those drugs need a chemical process to change from a plant to what people use. Marijuana itself has never been the cause for one's death the user yes but not the plant. This is another of my own opinions....Alcohol should become illegal again here in the states because of all the alcohol-related deaths as should cigs but weed needs to take its place as a legal substance. WEED DOES NOT HURT ANYONE!

 

[Zero]

Yes, over here in the Netherlands they are only allowed to sell 5 grams to a person, and it is only legal to have 5 grams with you. More is illegal. Of course someone could buy weed in every coffee shop and have more, but that is his own responisibility, he won't be able to make profit of it anyway since everyone knows where to buy it for less.

I'm sorry but if I went to Amsterdam I would not be looking to sell any of the pot that I buy from there, it is all going in my lungs especially all the different kinds of purple weed

 

[smellysocks12]

Hahaha you stoner.



I am from the Netherlands, been to Amsterdam plenty of times, yet I never even smoked pot. A cruel world huh?

 

[RandomHero]

Where did you get this statistic from?
Legalizing soft drugs will only ENCOURAGE people do hard drugs.

You know that's surprising considering how many people i know (including myself) have done pot and would never think twice about doing a harder drug, then again i know many people who have done harder drugs and for some meraculous reason haven't done it since.

The only use for alcohol is in my fuel tank. I see no reason for tobacco either. OTC medications are meant to help, not harm, if used properly.

You use methanol in your street car?! Gasoline considered alchohol?!