Drugs

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I'm against the legalization of illegal drugs. Most of the members here are worried about people on drugs, driving around under influence. Isn't that just one of many negative effects, legalizing drugs will have?

Pro legalization in this thread makes it sound like, people are capable of making perfect, sound judgement about everything and therefore, they will be able to control their habit. That is not the case, especially with the crowd that does drugs. I know, that's kind of hard to believe. But most grownups can and will still make mistakes, especially after using drugs. Just wait 'til it becomes an habit.

Yes, alcohol and tobacco are legal, but they don't affect your mind and body, the way some illegal drugs do. They are also, a lot less addictive. We've all seen, what drunks can do. As long as your argument is "we allow drinking, why not illegal drugs!" or "people drive while drunk, they can drive while on acid too!", they will not be legalized.

I think Duke suggested this. If you're guilty of a crime, while under influence, you do double the sentence. What good is this? In many states, prisons are full. Where I live, many criminal go in, come right out. Some don't even make it to prison. Many people will end up being robbed and killed by the addicts.

Finally, to those who believe that by legalizing illegal drugs, people will do less drugs. You are dead wrong, IMO. Those who do drugs now, will keep on using them. Many people(mostly kids), who were taught not to do drugs will start experimenting with them. Why not? they are legal! they are no worse than drinking or smoking, right?
 
I agree with Brian and I am opposed to legalization of drugs. The Canadian government has been considering, it seems will, decriminalize possession of small amounts of marijuna, the result of which would mean that those found in possession would be ticketed with no criminal record. I'm not entirely convinced that this is the best strategy because it sends a message of acceptance and giving up the fight by government. Police boards and unions are furious because of the reasons given by Brian above, but supporters claim that police rarely charge anyone anyways, and this will further free up resources for other crimes. The Toronto police force refused to charge anyone while the law was up in the air last year leading to some people smoking right in front of the headquarters.
Another concern is the influx of American tourists who would come to Canada to smoke legally in public, while this is not a major concern given that trafficing would remain a criminal offense, it begs the question of why would Americans travel across the border to smoke in public when undoubtedly they are already using in the privacy of their own homes.

I might point out that the East end of Vancouver BC has safe injection facilities staffed by nurses, counsellors and social workers. The facility allows herion and other IV drug users to come in, obtain free needles and inject their drugs supervised by health care workers. Users also get counselling on the dangers of IV drug use and some have quit using. The goal of the publicly funded facility is to reduce the rate of transmission of HIV/AIDS and other IV diseases. It's estimated that if 6 people are prevented from acquiring HIV alone by the facility than it will have paid for itself in future reduced health care costs and reduced future productivity (measured by average productivity, which admittedly many chronic IV drug users do not operate at, however those infected may infect people who have average of above average productivity). The facility is only available to chronic users who are known to reside in the area. Many users are sex workers. Stopping the spread of HIV/AIDS is particularly important for such workers given their contact with members of society.
 
MrktMkr1986
MrktMkr's 9 FACTS About Drug Legalization​
  1. The United States has made a lot of progress in fighting drug trafficking and use. Abandoning all efforts now would be disastrous.
  2. Prevention, law enforcement, and treatment and rehab programs are instrumental in the fight against drugs.
  3. Illegal drugs are illegal not only because they are harmful, but they pose societal risks as well.
  4. Smoking marijuana is NOT the same as medical marijuana (Marinol).
  5. Drug control spending is a minor portion of the US budget at least in comparison to the social costs.
  6. Legalization will lead to INCREASED use and INCREASED levels of addiction. Legalization HAS been tried before in the United States and it has FAILED MISERABLY.
  7. Drugs, violence and crime are ALL inextricably linked.
  8. Europe's more LIBERAL drug laws cannot and will not work in the United States.
  9. Most non-violent drug user get treatment, not jail time.

Limited to these facts, I dare someone to argue with me. :crazy:
Alrighty then, lets begin, shall we?
1) There has been little progress in the war on drugs. Hell, the prices have DROPPED more than 90% over the past 30 years. In addition, the substances are now close 100% pure and far more potent than they ever were. For every drug op that gets shut down, a new one is opened up. It's just far too profitable for the government to do anything to stop these people.

2) Of course they are. But shouldn't this war be targeting the drugs that are truly of no use in society - drugs that can actually kill you? ie, hard drugs like cocaine, heroine, etc

3) The only physical harm smoking marijuana does is to your lungs and the carcinogens released by the smoke. You can, if you're an absolute idiot, take a quarter ounce and survive with no problems. There is no such thing as a marijuana overdose and it's not addictive chemically like nicotine is. That's why it's classified as a "soft drug". Cigarettes are far worse than you, they've got countless harmful additives, and to top it off, they're addictive chemically which makes it extremely difficult to stop using. As for societal risks, alcohol puts you in an altered state of mind where you have little control over your actions. At least with marijuana you have a degree of control over your mind and body. It's hard drugs that are dangerous. They're the ones that people are willing to risk getting aids for by sharing needles. Those are the ones that people are who are addicted enough willing to make themselves bankrupt for.

4) Marinol is merely synthetic THC. The effects of THC are what people use marijana for. Unfortunately, since Marinol is synthetic, a lot of people tend to get a not so good high off of it. Marinol is in fact administered only where marijuana is banned. The natural stuff is more potent and has a better overall effect.

6) when was legalization tried in the US? As far as I know, it's never been legal in north america other than on a state to state basis for medicinal use.

7) grow operations and hard drugs and crime are typically related. No doubt. But then again, a 16 year old in my town was stabbed to death last summer because of a dispute with his friends over a pack of cigarettes.

8) You're probably right there. Too many closed minded people, and too many poorly educated high school kids. It depends on how the process is done in the end

I disputed that as best as I could.

Here's a point I'd like to add on anti-drug education.

At least once a week ever since I was in like 4th grade till the time I was in 10th grade, we "learned" all about the horrors of drug abuse. I believed almost all of it. From the all out bull**** arguements against drugs like "just one toke of marijuana can kill you" to "xxxx drug will make you lose all inhibitions and can potentially make you dumb enough to think a train can't harm you." Of course, you can't forget the absolute classic "Marijuana is a gateway drug." Almost every word of it, we took in and believed. As we grew older, my peers started experimenting. Of course, they started on weed or alcohol - almost everyone starts on weed or alcohol. Of course, after they had the weed, they realized it doesn't kill you, it didn't make them jump in front of oncoming trains. They figured based on that that everything the teachers said was crap. So they started experimenting with other stuff - ecstacy, shrooms, whatever. The weed didn't convince them to try the harder substances. Hell most people stay on weed and never do anything else. It was the half-truths we were told in our drug education classes that convinced them to try the stuff that actually can kill.

By demonizing one, they created the gateway drug. Not the other way around.

Some of these drugs have extremely useful and extremely powerful medicinal properties. Chemicals from opium for example are extracted for use in pain killers. A variation of cocaine is used in morphine. The list goes on. It's these drugs that should be controlled. These are the ones that'll kill if there's an overdose. Not the soft ones.

While I agree that soft drugs should be legalized or at the very least decriminalized, I also think the war on drugs should continue for the harder substances. The only problem is that there is no way to test a person who has THC in their body. Urine samples for example retain traces of THC for weeks at a time. Hair samples will hold it for months if you use it often enough. Saliva is also inacccurate as a saliva test will find traces of THC from as much as 48 hours prior. There are similar problems for testing people on other drugs as well.

edited for formatting
 
You start out by saying mj is not a gateway drug, then recount anecdotes of it leading to use of "harder" drugs. That's the definition of gateway drug.

I'd also like to point out whenever you purchase anything off the street you never know what exactly you're buying, if you buy pot laced with something you can die off it.
 
dbartucci
You start out by saying mj is not a gateway drug, then recount anecdotes of it leading to use of "harder" drugs.
I also mentioned that they led to harder drugs based on the lessons they learned at school. Kids are taught in school that every drug is equally bad for you, each of them is equally dangerous and every drug will kill you if you OD and every drug can be laced. In the end, what happens is people realize that the stuff on marijuana was all a lie. They automatically assume that it's a lie for everything else as well. After all, if your teacher lied to you to such a drastic extent about one drug, would you believe him/her about everything else?

I'd also like to point out whenever you purchase anything off the street you never know what exactly you're buying, if you buy pot laced with something you can die off it.
For marijuana at least, it's not possible to lace it. It costs more to lace than it does to grow a more potent strain. They also know that if the quality is low that nobody will buy it. The dealers are in fact business people. If their product causes harm to their clients, they lose money. It's not in their interests to do something like that. Besides, most users can tell a bad plant just by the smell and appearance of it.

Harder substances however, *can* be laced, but again, if it ends up hurting someone, people won't buy from that particular seller.

That said, i'm not saying for everybody to go out and get high. That's your decision to make. If you choose to do anything, know ahead of time what it's effects and potential side effects are. Then if you still want to use it, use it responsibly.
 
Hmmm... i must say this topic brings a lot of mixed ideas into play. I think that all drugs should be legalized with laws in place to keep people from shooting up in restaurants. Heavy taxes so that when people wish to harm their bidies... they arew also paying a hefty premium for it. Maybe that'll give them some insight on what's right/wrong.
 
standard235
Heavy taxes so that when people wish to harm their bidies... they arew also paying a hefty premium for it. Maybe that'll give them some insight on what's right/wrong.
I was thinking of this too, but if they didn't see anything wrong with breaking laws, I doubt taxing drugs will help their "insight".
 
emad
Alrighty then, lets begin, shall we?
1) There has been little progress in the war on drugs. Hell, the prices have DROPPED more than 90% over the past 30 years. In addition, the substances are now close 100% pure and far more potent than they ever were. For every drug op that gets shut down, a new one is opened up. It's just far too profitable for the government to stop this so called war.

Little progress?!

fig2.gif


On the demand side, the U.S. has reduced casual use, chronic use and addiction, and prevented others from even starting using drugs. Overall drug use in the United States is down by more than a third since the late 1970s. That’s 9.5 million people fewer using illegal drugs. We’ve reduced cocaine use by an astounding 70% during the last 15 years. That’s 4.1 million fewer people using cocaine.

If that's not progress, I don't know what is.

Want more facts:

The number of new heroin users dropped from 156,000 in 1976 to 104,000 in 1999, a reduction of 33 percent.

To put things in perspective, less than 5 percent of the population uses illegal drugs of any kind. Think about that: More than 95 percent of Americans do not use drugs.



2) Of course they are. But shouldn't this war be targeting the drugs that are truly of no use in society - drugs that can actually kill you? ie, hard drugs like cocaine, heroine, etc

It is. What makes you think it's not?

3) The only physical harm smoking marijuana does is to your lungs and the carcinogens released by the smoke. You can, if you're an absolute idiot, take a quarter ounce and survive with no problems. There is no such thing as a marijuana overdose and it's not addictive chemically like nicotine is. That's why it's classified as a "soft drug". Cigarettes are far worse than you, they've got countless harmful additives, and to top it off, they're addictive chemically which makes it extremely difficult to stop using. As for societal risks, alcohol puts you in an altered state of mind where you have little control over your actions. At least with marijuana you have a degree of control over your mind and body. It's hard drugs that are dangerous. They're the ones that people are willing to risk getting aids for by sharing needles. Those are the ones that people are who are addicted enough willing to make themselves bankrupt for.

All drugs are harmful. Even OTC can be harmful. Marijuana is illegal in the US because it is harmful and poses risks to society. It is also a gateway drug. Marijuana is far more powerful than it used to be -- that is something you need to take into account. In 2000, there were six times as many emergency room mentions of marijuana use as there were in 1990, despite the fact that the number of people using marijuana is roughly the same. In 1999, a record 225,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana dependence, second only to heroin—and not by much.

Also, while were on the topic of weed studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.” Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including the most harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. For example, smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette. These are COLD HARD FACTS. PERIOD.


6) when was legalization tried in the US? As far as I know, it's never been legal in north america other than on a state to state basis for medicinal use.

The Alaska Supreme Court ruled in 1975 that the state could not interfere with an adult’s possession of marijuana for personal consumption in the home. The court’s ruling became a green light for marijuana use. Although the ruling was limited to persons 19 and over, teens were among those increasingly using marijuana. According to a 1988 University of Alaska study, the state’s 12 to 17-year-olds used marijuana at more than twice the national average for their age group. Alaska’s residents voted in 1990 to recriminalize possession of marijuana, demonstrating their belief that increased use was too high a price to pay.

By 1979, after 11 states (don't remember which exactly) decriminalized marijuana and the Carter administration even considered federal decriminalization, marijuana use INCREASED DRAMATICALLY among teenagers. That year, almost 51 percent of 12th graders reported they used marijuana in the last 12 months. By 1992, with tougher laws and increased attention to the risks of drug abuse, that figure had been reduced to 22 percent, a 57 percent decline.

7) grow operations and hard drugs and crime are typically related. No doubt. But then again, a 16 year old in my town was stabbed to death last summer because of a dispute with his friends over a pack of cigarettes.

Sorry to hear that. But such events are rare in comparison to illegal drugs.
 
Yeah... another point I was trying to make is that people who want to hurt them selves knowingly, then they wouldn't have a problem stealing the stuf either.
 
dbartucci
You start out by saying mj is not a gateway drug, then recount anecdotes of it leading to use of "harder" drugs. That's the definition of gateway drug.

I'd also like to point out whenever you purchase anything off the street you never know what exactly you're buying, if you buy pot laced with something you can die off it.

***Edit*** Wow I type a lot slower than other people... :dunce:

I think his point is that MJ has become a gateway drug because typical drug education teaches that it as bad as any other drug. Since it is much more readily available that other drugs it is the first illegal drug that many people have the opportunity to try. Once someone tries MJ and realizes they were lied to about the effects, they figure that the rest of the typical drug education info in BS too and begin experimenting with harder stuff that can be much worse.

I have smoked and/or known people who smoke MJ for 15+ years. I have never heard of anyone getting MJ that is "laced" with anything else, without being told it is laced with something else, and paying more for it. Why would someone lace a $20 bag of MJ with a more expensive drug?

I've never known anyone who has ever started a fight, committed a violent crime, robbed anyone, jumped in front of a train, tried to kill themselves, etc. under the influence of MJ.

Also only an idoit buys MJ off the street. You buy from someone you trust, someone who has a steady connection or grows it themselves.

MJ should be legalized and taxed. It would be an excellent crop for tobacco growers to switch to when smoking becomes outlawed in public places and falls out of public favor. A pack of MJ cigs could be sold for much more than a pack of tobacco cigs is and taxed at a much higher rate. The revenue could go towards treatment of health and societal problems caused by all the "hard' drugs/ tobacco/ alcohol.
 
Pot should be legal . If you can buy beer or wine or any other kind of alchoholic beverage then you should be able to buy pot . Gateway drug ? Budwiser is a gateway drug just as much as Pot . Rehab ? Go check an AA meting ...should be easy to find within walking distance of most Churches . THC is the active inebriating ingrediant in pot THC IS NOT ADDICTIVE . So who are these POT ADDICTS ? The government has been lieing about drugs and the effect of drugs since they got into the prohibition business . Nothing published about drugs by the government should ever be taken seriously ..unless of course you like to read bullchips . This is not to say that some of what they put out is not 100 % true ..its a shame that you just have to search hard for the true parts .
 
bfifteenv
I think his point is that MJ has become a gateway drug because typical drug education teaches that it as bad as any other drug. Since it is much more readily available that other drugs it is the first illegal drug that many people have the opportunity to try.

Which is why it is illegal and should remain that way.

Once someone tries MJ and realizes they were lied to about the effects, they figure that the rest of the typical drug education info in BS too and begin experimenting with harder stuff that can be much worse.

They weren't lied to about the effects! What are you talking about?!

I have smoked and/or known people who smoke MJ for 15+ years.

QUIT!!! And tell everyone else to do the same!!! Run while still have a chance!!! :crazy:

I have never heard of anyone getting MJ that is "laced" with anything else,

Doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I've never known anyone who has ever started a fight, committed a violent crime, robbed anyone, jumped in front of a train, tried to kill themselves, etc. under the influence of MJ.

That's not the point.

Also only an idoit buys MJ off the street. You buy from someone you trust, someone who has a steady connection or grows it themselves.

That's funny... that really is quite amusing.

MJ should be legalized and taxed.

It's been tried before -- AND FAILED!!!

It would be an excellent crop for tobacco growers to switch to when smoking becomes outlawed in public places and falls out of public favor.

That's nonsense.

A pack of MJ cigs could be sold for much more than a pack of tobacco cigs is and taxed at a much higher rate. The revenue could go towards treatment of health and societal problems caused by all the "hard' drugs/ tobacco/ alcohol.

Don't even think about using that as a justification for doing drugs. :crazy:


ledhed
Pot should be legal . If you can buy beer or wine or any other kind of alchoholic beverage then you should be able to buy pot . Gateway drug ? Budwiser is a gateway drug just as much as Pot . Rehab ? Go check an AA meting ...should be easy to find within walking distance of most Churches . THC is the active inebriating ingrediant in pot THC IS NOT ADDICTIVE . So who are these POT ADDICTS ? The government has been lieing about drugs and the effect of drugs since they got into the prohibition business . Nothing published about drugs by the government should ever be taken seriously ..unless of course you like to read bullchips . This is not to say that some of what they put out is not 100 % true ..its a shame that you just have to search hard for the true parts .

OMG! What are you doing?!
:banghead: :boggled: :odd: :nervous: :scared: :ill: :crazy:
 
MrktMkr1986
All drugs are harmful. Even OTC can be harmful. Marijuana is illegal in the US because it is harmful and poses risks to society.
Alcohol is equally harmful and has greater risks in society. It is more commonly used and it's effects remain in your body for far longer. Why isn't it a banned substance?

It is also a gateway drug. Marijuana is far more powerful than it used to be -- that is something you need to take into account. In 2000, there were six times as many emergency room mentions of marijuana use as there were in 1990, despite the fact that the number of people using marijuana is roughly the same. In 1999, a record 225,000 Americans entered substance abuse treatment primarily for marijuana dependence, second only to heroin—and not by much.
It's more potent, so you smoke less. At least that's the idea there. Marijuana dependence as well as the claim of it being a gateway drug is a laugh IMO. The substance has nothing in it at all that's chemically addictive. A far above average user (ie at least 0.5 grams a day) can go without it with very few complaints. It's psychological - people come back to it because they enjoy the feeling. Not because it's a chemical that has been so deeply spread through their body that they crave it constantly.

Also, while were on the topic of weed studies show that someone who smokes five joints per week may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day.” Marijuana contains more than 400 chemicals, including the most harmful substances found in tobacco smoke. For example, smoking one marijuana cigarette deposits about four times more tar into the lungs than a filtered tobacco cigarette. These are COLD HARD FACTS. PERIOD.
A person who smokes five joints per week is needs to go find help. A half joint is all it typically takes to get a very long high. As for the tar in the lungs, it is a by-product of burning plant matter. You'll get similar amounts of tar if you were to burn one of the flowers growing in your front yard. You don't have to smoke weed. THC is soluble in both fat and alcohol. Many people will cook it into brownies or whatever in order to get the very same high without any smoke or carcinogens.


The Alaska Supreme Court ruled in 1975 that the state could not interfere with an adult’s possession of marijuana for personal consumption in the home. The court’s ruling became a green light for marijuana use. Although the ruling was limited to persons 19 and over, teens were among those increasingly using marijuana. According to a 1988 University of Alaska study, the state’s 12 to 17-year-olds used marijuana at more than twice the national average for their age group. Alaska’s residents voted in 1990 to recriminalize possession of marijuana, demonstrating their belief that increased use was too high a price to pay.

By 1979, after 11 states (don't remember which exactly) decriminalized marijuana and the Carter administration even considered federal decriminalization, marijuana use INCREASED DRAMATICALLY among teenagers. That year, almost 51 percent of 12th graders reported they used marijuana in the last 12 months. By 1992, with tougher laws and increased attention to the risks of drug abuse, that figure had been reduced to 22 percent, a 57 percent decline.
While that's nice, the percentage of high school seniors in the US who had smoked marijuana in 1997 was 49.6%. Over the past 8 years, I can almost guarantee you that the number has risen well above that number.
 
MrktMkr1986
They weren't lied to about the effects! What are you talking about?!
You don't remember the stuff taught in the DARE progam?
-Marijuana and all drugs can kill you
-They're all addictive - one use and you're hooked for life
-Marijuana makes you lose all inhibitions and control over your body
-My personal favourite - the video where they showed a group of actors smoking up and then proceeding to dance, hop around as though they had a major caffeine rush, and then someone pulled out a gun and shot at random people
-my other favourite anti-marijuana video:
actor 1: "hey, there's a train"
actor 2: "watch me stop it with my hands!!"

By demonizing and saying so many lies about the one kids are most likely to use, they cause kids to lose trust in the program. These anti-drug campaigns are the gateway drug. Not the drug itself.
 
I've seen what pot can do. All my friends who smokes pot got dumber. Not many of them, not most of them, All of them. Sometimes, they lose a train of thought in a middle of a conversation. It's like talking to an elderly at times, and my friends are teen to 33 years old. I've seen some middleaged stoners, and it ain't pretty. Even some brilliant ones turned into average or just above average minded people.

I've never smoked pot, so I don't know what's so great about them, but why legalize something that's gonna make you dumber?

P.S. Many friends and people I know seems to either quit, or tries to quit after they are in their late 20's, realizing the mistake. Unfortunately, their brains are in much worse shape by then, compared to before they started. Better late than never, I guess.
 
emad
You don't remember the stuff taught in the DARE progam?

Of course I do -- that's why I don't do drugs. I still have BOTH my DARE certificate and my DARE t-shirt from the 6th grade.

-Marijuana and all drugs can kill you

Never said that. They made it clear which drugs had what effects.

-They're all addictive - one use and you're hooked for life

Never said that. They made it clear which drugs were more addictive than others. That's beside the point anyway. Society as a WHOLE is more important than the INDIVIDUAL demand to get high/stoned/drunk whatever.

-Marijuana makes you lose all inhibitions and control over your body

NEVER said that. Where the hell did you get that from?

-My personal favourite - the video where they showed a group of actors smoking up and then proceeding to dance, hop around as though they had a major caffeine rush, and then someone pulled out a gun and shot at random people

How do you know they weren't smoking crack? How do you know it marijuana?

-my other favourite anti-marijuana video:
actor 1: "hey, there's a train"
actor 2: "watch me stop it with my hands!!"

Even if it that is a lie, it doesn't mean they lie about everything else -- and they have good reason to anyway.

By demonizing and saying so many lies about the one kids are most likely to use, they cause kids to lose trust in the program. These anti-drug campaigns are the gateway drug. Not the drug itself.

That is so WRONG it's not even funny. Kids don't lose trust in the program, they lose trust in the person that tries to offer them a joint -- hopefully. And if there are people out there, who despite the warnings and the laws etc., STILL do drugs, then they are ANTI-SOCIAL -- plain and simple.

a6m5
I've seen what pot can do. All my friends who smokes pot got dumber. Not many of them, not most of them, All of them. Sometimes, they lose a train of thought in a middle of a conversation. It's like talking to an elderly at times, and my friends are teen to 33 years old. I've seen some middleaged stoners, and it ain't pretty. Even some brilliant ones turned into average or just above average minded people.

I've never smoked pot, so I don't know what's so great about them, but why legalize something that's gonna make you dumber?

P.S. Many friends and people I know seems to either quit, or tries to quit after they are in their late 20's, realizing the mistake. Unfortunately, their brains are in much worse shape by then, compared to before they started. Better late than never, I guess.

I hope posts like these (thanks a6m5) are getting through to people.
 
I've never smoked pot, so I don't know what's so great about them, but why legalize something that's gonna make you dumber?

Because people want to do it.

Why legalize alcohol? Why legalize theme parks? Why legalize baseball or driving motorcycles? Why legalize bungee jumping or sky diving? Do they have to have reasons to be legal? I think they should have damn good reasons for being illegal.

I haven't seen any proof that marijuana makes people dumber, at least not perminently. But even if it did, is that grounds for making it illegal? Alcohol kills brain cells, high cholesterol foods cause heart attacks, should they be illegal as well?
 
Alright, maybe they've improved or it depends on the state and school you're in. But every school I've been to both in the US and here in Canada, it's been heavily demonized.

As for A6m's post, I can sympathize with you. I've got friends who've smoked themselves stupid, and i've got others who have been smoking occasionally for the longest time. From what i've seen with them, it's all in how often they take it and how long they go without it. The ones that are stupid from it usually tend to get much better after a month or two without taking any. The ones that have been doing it daily for years though, probably have little hope of fully recovering. But it was also their choice to smoke daily. Nobody told them to.

I still await a response to my question.
Alcohol is equally harmful and has greater risks in society. It is more commonly used and it's effects remain in your body for far longer. Why isn't it a banned substance?
If I can add to that as well.
Kids can easily steal it from their parents (my friends used to take some from their parents often enough)
It's readily accessible from any corner store, and hell, some convenience store owners don't even bother to check ID.

edit: removed non sensical statement
 
Who knows, maybe they were. I haven't known these daily smokers for very long. Usually my mind recovers after just a week or so if I find myself getting very spaced out from it.

Why is there almost no relevant information on drugs and their effects on the mind/body? And why is it that people are still opposed to using mj for medicinal purposes but they're totally ok with having opiates injected into them while they're at the hospital?
 
emad
Usually my mind recovers after just a week or so if I find myself getting very spaced out from it.

That's saying a lot.

Why is there almost no relevant information on drugs and their effects on the mind/body?

Depends on your definition or "relevant". I believe the information to be "relevant" enough for me to NOT do drugs.

And why is it that people are still opposed to using mj for medicinal purposes but they're totally ok with having opiates injected into them while they're at the hospital?

I'm against both -- and I'm not the only one. My Uncles friend crashed a street bike a 120mph -- lost his leg. The doctors wanted to give him morphine and do you what he said? NO!!! He didn't want to become addicted to it. I would do the same thing too. Unless your life absolutely depends on it (i.e. cancer + chemo etc.), there are no need for drugs -- period.
 
MrktMkr1986
That's saying a lot.
I should have added that that happens only after prolonged use. I'm not high, just spaced out for a few days - somewhat in the same way as I am on the days I have too much caffeine.


Depends on your definition or "relevant". I believe the information to be "relevant" enough for me to NOT do drugs.
More detailed information on the immediate, psychological, and long term effects would be a start. More information on the medicinal benefits of the chemicals contained within these drugs would help ease the lives of millions around the world. More information on the effects these things have on the brain could help to do wonders for the world. Just for example, the brain has THC receptors in it, however they're almost always off. Why? What is in THC or whatever that helps so many sicknesses? Is there a way to derive an opiate that has fewer harmful side effects? The list goes on.
 
danoff
Because people want to do it.

Why legalize alcohol? Why legalize theme parks? Why legalize baseball or driving motorcycles? Why legalize bungee jumping or sky diving? Do they have to have reasons to be legal? I think they should have damn good reasons for being illegal.

I haven't seen any proof that marijuana makes people dumber, at least not perminently. But even if it did, is that grounds for making it illegal? Alcohol kills brain cells, high cholesterol foods cause heart attacks, should they be illegal as well?
Comparing legaization of marijuana and alcohol is an good argument. Themeparks, baseball and motorcycles though? :confused:

If you've seen pot smokers before they started smoking and after, how can you not see the affects they have on the mind?
emad
I still await a response to my question.
Personally, I think alcohol should be banned. Nothing I hate more than putting up with a drunk. :D I'm not going to defend alcohol, but one thing I gotta say. Drinking casually will not affect your mind, smoking marijuana will. Danoff says that drinking will kill your brain cells. It must be in very small numbers, because I don't see my friends get dumber by drinking. :rolleyes:
 
I think you've misinterpreted the goal of drug education in schools. The goal is not to tell kids which drugs are worse than others and that pot isn't as bad as the anti-drug commercials make it seem or it actually better for you than cigarettes. The goal is to tell kids that drugs are bad for you and can pose serious health hazards. They do this by telling you what the effects of the drug, both the high, and the long-term health benefits.

The objective is discourage use in the first place, not to create a culture of acceptance for soft drugs.

Alcohol was banned very unsuccessfully in the US in the early part of the 20th century. It is currently one of the most highly taxed consumption goods, and numerous support programs exist, both publicly and privately (AA, MAAD) funded. Many studies have shown that drinking in moderation is healthy (red wine and heart studies) and positively correlated with income. Such studies on pot often reflect the ideals of the group who set to research them. Proponents of legalization produce studies which show pot is not addictive and is safe in moderation, government produces studies which show its a gateway drug and highly carcenogenic.

Finally, I'm not sure that saying pot is safer than cigarettes is a good reason for legalizing pot as much as it is a reason to take the next step in Ontario (after we've banned it in bars, restaurants, offices, etc. for the health of other employees from 2nd-hand) and ban smoking in any public place.
 
emad
I should have added that that happens only after prolonged use. I'm not high, just spaced out for a few days - somewhat in the same way as I am on the days I have too much caffeine.

You should quit. Both whatever it is your "using" and trying to justify it (I'm referring to the caffeine reference).

More detailed information on the immediate, psychological, and long term effects would be a start.

Who says they're not detailed? Where are you looking?

More information on the medicinal benefits of the chemicals contained within these drugs would help ease the lives of millions around the world.

More justifications...

More information on the effects these things have on the brain could help to do wonders for the world. Just for example, the brain has THC receptors in it, however they're almost always off. Why? What is in THC or whatever that helps so many sicknesses? Is there a way to derive an opiate that has fewer harmful side effects? The list goes on.

Even more justifications...
 
MrktMkr1986
You should quit. Both whatever it is your "using" and trying to justify it (I'm referring to the caffeine reference).
Marijuana. The caffeine, i've cut back on heavily. The weed, I haven't done in over a month. Exams are #1 priority right now.


Who says they're not detailed? Where are you looking?
everywhere. The information is typically inconclusive from what I've seen or there's gaps and holes which could do with clarification.

More justifications...
Even more justifications...
So you'd prefer to hold back scientific and medicinal progress?
 
a6m5
Personally, I think alcohol should be banned. Nothing I hate more than putting up with a drunk. :D I'm not going to defend alcohol, but one thing I gotta say. Drinking casually will not affect your mind, smoking marijuana will. Danoff says that drinking will kill your brain cells. It must be in very small numbers, because I don't see my friends get dumber by drinking. :rolleyes:
Casual use of marijuana will also not effect your mind in any way. In the end, it all boils down to how responsible you choose to be with the substance you're taking
 
Rent the movie reefer madness ..or for real fun just put together a bunch of government propaganda films on Pot . They lied ..they got caught ...so now you have more than one gereration that thinks they are full of crap when it comes to what they say about drugs.
In the twentys and thirtys the government claimed that pot made black men rape white women. The fortys they concentrated on war and recovery . The fiftys saw the reefer madness years..the rock & roll causes sex crimes and communist behind every rock years.
In the sixtys the population pretty much decided that the government was full of it and it became the drug decade. And then came the cocaine scourge and the heroin invasion . So now we have prisons overcrowded with drug users and sellers learning to be more successfull at crime when they graduate from prison . Now its okay to put a 9 mm into someone for looking at you in a funny way . You say the government is winning the war on drugs ? 💡
I would hate to see what happens when they are losing . Cocaine is so cheap and available they had to use it to make crack . Heroin is so pure and available its popular to snort it. drugs fund most of the illegal guns available on the street and are the reason for or contribute to most of the violent crime in the US . Its been getting worse for DECADES ..I HAVE WATCHED IT . The drug policys are worthless and create an underclass and a large underground economy that is killing the values and the people of the US..winning my ass . They are losing bad . We all are.
But keep building them prisons and keep the criminals in business what a cycle .
You keep thinking that pots a " bad drug " while you suck down a martini .
The government has a long way to go to gain back its credibility . it would help if they learned from the mistakes of the past ...like PROHIBITION . Remember Al Capone ? Now we have dudes that make 'ol Al look like a *****. All getting rich off government policy. While generations sit in jail learning new skills 💡
 
emad
Marijuana. The caffeine, i've cut back on heavily. The weed, I haven't done in over a month. Exams are #1 priority right now.

Hopefully after the exams you'll realize you never really missed either. :)

everywhere. The information is typically inconclusive from what I've seen or there's gaps and holes which could do with clarification.

I disagree.

So you'd prefer to hold back scientific and medicinal progress?

I never said that. It just sounded like you were trying to justify its "use" for scientific purposes. I read wrong. You're right -- but that still does not justify its day-to-day use.
 
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