Drugs

  • Thread starter Danoff
  • 900 comments
  • 44,474 views
RandomHero
You know that's surprising considering how many people i know (including myself) have done pot and would never think twice about doing a harder drug, then again i know many people who have done harder drugs and for some meraculous reason haven't done it since.

Statistics speak for themselves. The number of people you know is irrelevant.

You use methanol in your street car?! Gasoline considered alchohol?!

Not methanol -- ethanol. Most refineries add about 5-10% in their gasoline. Methonal will cause more problems in the engine/fuel system than ethanol (though too much ethanol will cause problems too).
 
ledhed
I am still waiting for someone to justify why alcohol and cigarettes are legal and pot is not.
Or is that way too logical a question ?
I offended some people in here, last time, but my take on this is still the same. Like MrktMkr, I don't see why not ban all three. It's the minuses(-)outweighing the pluses(+) for me. If you disagree(I think most of you will), I understand. It's just my personal opinion.;)

My argument for not legalizing marijuana would be the affect it will have on our brain. Most smokers will experience forgetfulness and spacing out and stuff like that(permanently, even after you quit). We get that way, when we are sixty anyway, why hurry? Another thing I've noticed about my friends who smoked is, they've experienced depression after quitting. I don't want to get into it, but it got little bit ugly with one of my buddies. :guilty:
 
RandomHero
You use methanol in your street car?! Gasoline considered alchohol?!


Gasoline isn't methanol. Some cars drive on gas, methanol which is a type of alcohol, but toxic and can't be used for consumption. The alcohol in a bottle of vodka is ethanol. It means it has an extra C and H particle if I remember my chemistry classes correctly. :yuck:
 
MrktMkr1986
Statistics speak for themselves. The number of people you know is irrelevant.



Not methanol -- ethanol. Most refineries add about 5-10% in their gasoline. Methonal will cause more problems in the engine/fuel system than ethanol (though too much ethanol will cause problems too).

Could you provide a link of said statistics (maybe i missed it).

And i would suppose there would be statistics showing how cigarettes & alchohol are more addictive and harmfull, not to mention more of a gateway drug than marijuana alone?

[off topic] The 1%, 10%, or 15% (lllinois-Iowa) does not justify it as 'alchohol' since just a portion of it is, after all. I know about methanol considering my racecar uses it and we have to clean the fuel nozzles (hillborne mechanical injection) every few weeks. Some of the other engines in the series i run with use pure ethanol aswell. [/off topic]
 
smellysocks12
Gasoline isn't methanol. Some cars drive on gas, methanol which is a type of alcohol, but toxic and can't be used for consumption. The alcohol in a bottle of vodka is ethanol. It means it has an extra C and H particle if I remember my chemistry classes correctly. :yuck:

If the alcohol in the bottle of vodka is ethanol, then that is the same alcohol that is in your gas tank... that should be its only purpose. What car companies need to do is learn how to adapt cars to run ONLY on alcohol -- just like the alcohol-powered drag race cars.
 
MrktMkr1986
Statistics speak for themselves. The number of people you know is irrelevant.

The statistics might be right, but the conclusion you draw from it can be wrong. "The average amount of people who smoked pot before and used harder drugs later is higher than out of a sample of which people haven't used pot before." If that is what the statistics show, then that can't be denied. I don't know whether you can make a causal link between pot and the harder drugs though. Maybe the people who tried pot before are more likely to experiment with things, and people who didn't are not. That might be the cause of it, they don't experiment because they smoked pot before but because they were less hesitant to try something that affects their mental state. So the cause is the personality, not the effect weed had on them.
 
smellysocks12
So the cause is the personality, not the effect weed had on them.

There are the not-so-bright or uninformed individuals out there though that may think if pot is illegal and it doesn't hurt me, then why not try...
 
smellysocks12
The statistics might be right, but the conclusion you draw from it can be wrong. "The average amount of people who smoked pot before and used harder drugs later is higher than out of a sample of which people haven't used pot before." If that is what the statistics show, then that can't be denied. I don't know whether you can make a causal link between pot and the harder drugs though. Maybe the people who tried pot before are more likely to experiment with things, and people who didn't are not. That might be the cause of it, they don't experiment because they smoked pot before but because they were less hesitant to try something that affects their mental state. So the cause is the personality, not the effect weed had on them.

Not necessarily. It's only normal that people who've done freaking heroin and cocaine (the baddest of the bad) have also done pot. Just like people who drink lots of vodka have obviously drank beer before.
 
PS
Not necessarily. It's only normal that people who've done freaking heroin and cocaine (the baddest of the bad) have also done pot. Just like people who drink lots of vodka have obviously drank beer before.

Yeah, and what does this counter anything I just said? You're practically confirming what I said. In a world without pot or beer the people you are referring to would probably have tried heroin/cocain or vodka eventually as well. It's because these people aren't afraid to try anything new, to bring them to another mindstate.

I don't believe that pot would make anyone try a different drug. Pot makes you calm and relaxed, cocain and heroin make you freak out. The effects can't be compared. I think the step from vodka to heroin makes more sense than a step from weed to heroin.


The only thing that makes liquor not a hard drug is because it is accepted by society.
 
RandomHero
Technically liquor & cigarettes are "hard drugs" as previously stated by eMad.

Exactly, so why would pot be a drug from which people might start using heroin and cocain as well, yet you don't see anyone say the same about smokers and drinkers? It just doesn't make sense. Any government that bans weed because it affects the user's health, yet collects taxes on cigarettes and alcoholic beverages is hypocrite.... which is practically any government in the world.
 
smellysocks12
Yeah, and what does this counter anything I just said? You're practically confirming what I said. In a world without pot or beer the people you are referring to would probably have tried heroin/cocain or vodka eventually as well. It's because these people aren't afraid to try anything new, to bring them to another mindstate.

I don't believe that pot would make anyone try a different drug. Pot makes you calm and relaxed, cocain and heroin make you freak out. The effects can't be compared. I think the step from vodka to heroin makes more sense than a step from weed to heroin.


The only thing that makes liquor not a hard drug is because it is accepted by society.

What the hell are you trying to say? I was defending pot and the way you worded it, you made it seem like everyone who's tried pot moves on to much harder substances.
 
smellysocks12
Exactly, so why would pot be a drug from which people might start using heroin and cocain as well, yet you don't see anyone say the same about smokers and drinkers? It just doesn't make sense. Any government that bans weed because it affects the user's health, yet collects taxes on cigarettes and alcoholic beverages is hypocrite.... which is practically any government in the world.

👍 👍

Pot is the only one proven to have medical advantages aswell.

What i don't get is everyone saying how pot causes depression, anxiety, etc. when either coming off the drug or quitting for periods of time. First of all it has been proven to help people with depression and stress. It can only cause a person to be addicted if they let themselves become addicted (i.e. mental addiction) so they are causing this "depression" or "anxiety" to themselves. And let me tell you that i have repeatedly gone months withought touching the stuff and have never experienced any of these effects.
 
Same here, I know tons of people who never go into withdrawal, depression, or anything like that and yet they still go "So?! doesn't mean it don't happen..."


I really should stay away from these opinions threads, they're the source of my postwhoreism.
 
RandomHero
👍 👍

👎 👎

Pot is the only one proven to have medical advantages aswell.

No... MARINOL is the only drug proven to have medical advantages. Stop deluding yourself.

What i don't get is everyone saying how pot causes depression, anxiety, etc. when either coming off the drug or quitting for periods of time.

That's a fact.

First of all it has been proven to help people with depression and stress.

Who told you that? :odd: Who says it's "proven"?

And let me tell you that i have repeatedly gone months withought touching the stuff and have never experienced any of these effects.

Oh wow... so just because you and whoever you smoke with don't experience any effects, EVERYONE is suppose to feel the same way... got it. :dopey:
 
RandomHero
👍 👍

Pot is the only one proven to have medical advantages aswell.

What i don't get is everyone saying how pot causes depression, anxiety, etc. when either coming off the drug or quitting for periods of time. First of all it has been proven to help people with depression and stress. It can only cause a person to be addicted if they let themselves become addicted (i.e. mental addiction) so they are causing this "depression" or "anxiety" to themselves. And let me tell you that i have repeatedly gone months withought touching the stuff and have never experienced any of these effects.


It is known that after long-term use people will feel paranoid and depressed more every time they get high, the good feeling that weed gave them at first will change in a more negative sense. That's why most people stop smoking pot after several years of smoking daily.
 
smellysocks12
Any government that bans weed because it affects the user's health, yet collects taxes on cigarettes and alcoholic beverages is hypocrite.... which is practically any government in the world.
Hey, this thread was good for something! If you study history, you'll learn this is the case with 99% of the governments(or any ruling party)............. Hypocrites! :)
 
MrktMkr1986
This thread is unbelievable... :boggled:

Anyone who promotes drug legalization is either short-sighted or EXTREMELY selfish -- PERIOD.

That is what the majority in the American government said as well during the period 1910 - 1920 when alcohol and gambling were illegal. The legalization of both alcohol and gambling solved a lot of problems, crime ratios went down, organized crime lost income sources, the products offered are more safe now (no more methanol mixed in your vodka, quality checked, and gambling dens (aka casinos) don't have people killing each other over gambling debts), taxes are being made over gambling and alcohol revenues.... and more. Making something illegal doesn't stop people from using it or participating in it.


Legalizing softdrugs and government controlled distribution of harddrugs to addicts when they participate in rehab projects will reduce crime, it will make life easier for drug addicts since they don't have to pay loads of cash for their next hit, it will free up time the police spends on harassing junkies so they can spend that in other areas, taxes being drawn from pot sale can be used to fund these rehab projects for the heavily addicted.

Legalization doesn't mean that it should be in every supermarket and being advertised on tv. If you don't understand that legalization will bring all these benefits then I think you are the one being short sighted and selfish, since you aren't the one living in a neighborhood with a lot of junkies trying to make money for their next hit.


I have yet to see a good argument that is against legalization. Arguments starting with "In the bible I says...", or contains anything saying that it is bad for your health aren't valid.
 
MrktMkr1986
A hypocrite is someone who says we should legalize marijuana and then asks why alcohol and tobacco are illegal.

No, I questioned why marijuana is banned in so many countries for certain reasons, while alcohol and tobacco are legal, yet the reasons why marijuana is banned are also relevant for alcohol and cigarettes. I never said that alcohol or tobacco should be illegal, so that doesn't make me a hypocrite. I just questioned why the government is measuring with 2 different measures.


Besides that moderate use of marijuana has yet to be proven to be harmful. Just like moderate use of alcohol and cigarettes won't leave permanent damage.
 
smellysocks12
The legalization of both alcohol and gambling solved a lot of problems, crime ratios went down, organized crime lost income sources,

That assertion is incorrect. Organized crime did not lose income -- they simply moved on to other illegal substances to sell. Therefore, the only way to TRULY get rid of drug-related organized crime is to do one of two things. Make all illegal drugs legal to everyone (including minors), or eliminate drugs altogether.

the products offered are more safe now (no more methanol mixed in your vodka, quality checked, and gambling dens (aka casinos) don't have people killing each other over gambling debts),

Except in the case of marijuana which has become more potent over the years.

taxes are being made over gambling and alcohol revenues.... and more. Making something illegal doesn't stop people from using it or participating in it.

You're right -- so eliminate it altogether.

Legalizing softdrugs and government controlled distribution of harddrugs to addicts when they participate in rehab projects will reduce crime, it will make life easier for drug addicts since they don't have to pay loads of cash for their next hit, it will free up time the police spends on harassing junkies so they can spend that in other areas, taxes being drawn from pot sale can be used to fund these rehab projects for the heavily addicted.

That's only going to PROMOTE drug use.

Legalization doesn't mean that it should be in every supermarket and being advertised on tv.

Obviously not.

If you don't understand that legalization will bring all these benefits

Benefits from drug legalization?!

then I think you are the one being short sighted and selfish, since you aren't the one living in a neighborhood with a lot of junkies trying to make money for their next hit.

Don't you realize that by legalizing the drug, you're going to have even MORE junkies trying to make money for their next hit?

I have yet to see a good argument that is against legalization.

Short-sightedness aside, you haven't been reading any of my posts.

Arguments starting with "In the bible I says...", or contains anything saying that it is bad for your health aren't valid.

I never mentioned the Bible in any of my posts in this thread. That quote must be in reference to someone else.

Besides that moderate use of marijuana has yet to be proven to be harmful. Just like moderate use of alcohol and cigarettes won't leave permanent damage.

Wrong... marijuana smoke contains over 400 different chemicals. It is 3x more dangerous than cigarettes because the THC is fat-soluable. Not to mention the fact that marijuana has more tar than cigarettes are well. Alcohol = brain damage and liver damage. Cigarettes = lung cancer

And if you don't think the damage is permanent, you are deluding yourself as well.
 
You don't get it do you?


You're right -- so eliminate it altogether.


How do you think you can do that? By waving a magic wand? By putting anyone participating in it onto an electric chair? You CAN'T eliminate something just like that. That was the idea behind making alcohol illegal in the USA... trying to eliminate it, but that failed incredibly.

Don't you realize that by legalizing the drug, you're going to have even MORE junkies trying to make money for their next hit?

No you don't, you idiot, read what I said, controlled distribution for addictive drugs. Marijuana isn't addictive, so that shouldn't only be available through prescription... that should be sold in liquor stores next to the vodka and whiskey, only after legitimating oneself so minors can't get it.

Controlled distribution makes it that the prices will be no higher than the production costs, so it will be affordable to get their hit. Making something illegal incredibly inflates prices, since the supply is small and risky to make.


That's only going to PROMOTE drug use.

No it isn't going to promote it. Making something illegal, that makes teenagers want to try it out.

Except in the case of marijuana which has become more potent over the years.

More potent doesn't make something more dangerous. Vodka is more potent than beer and isn't more dangerous if you drink it moderately. Making weed legal would make it possible to exactly measure the amount of THC (the effective substance that makes you high) in it, and put that on the label. This makes it possible to use the perfect dosage. With illegal weed you don't know how much is in it, so then danger exists that you might take more than you want to. You also don't know the quality, a dealer might have put rat poison in it... if you buy it from a respectable store those risks are gone.

I never mentioned the Bible in any of my posts in this thread. That quote must be in reference to someone else.

I was anticipating towards anyone who might start to type any of those replies in this thread.

Wrong... marijuana smoke contains over 400 different chemicals. It is 3x more dangerous than cigarettes because the THC is fat-soluable. Not to mention the fact that marijuana has more tar than cigarettes are well.

People who smoke weed don't smoke it as often as people who smoke cigarettes. I'm sure regular tobaco contrains over 400 different chemicals as well, the regular air you breathe as well.

Alcohol = brain damage and liver damage. Cigarettes = lung cancer

When you are an alcoholic and your use of it is extremely high, then it causes permanent damage. Drinking too much water can also kill you, just like eating too much. One glass of wine every day actually increases your health, that has been proved by medical research. Sure, some brain cells die off, but you have more than enough and only use 20% of your brain capacity. Older cells that die off will be replaced by previously unused ones. If you stop smoking one year from that moment 90% of the tar in your lungs is gone, a few years means that your lungs are practically clean. So if you stop smoking there is no damage after a couple of years, no permanent damage.

And if you don't think the damage is permanent, you are deluding yourself as well.

I'm not deluding anyone, I don't smoke anything and drink a couple of beers weekly. I read articles and one of my friends who is studying to become a doctor would confirm this.


I said it once, I'll it again:

I can read... repeating, capitalizing, making bold and increasing the size of what you said in an earlier post, won't really do anything but making you look like a stubborn activist who can't find relevant arguments to counter what I said.




By the way, I just see that you are from New York. Weed is illegal there, harddrugs are illegal there. Go outside, take any underground train to Brooklyn and count the amount of addicts you run into, that should display that making drugs illegal isn't the solution.

I'm sure that in New York the ratio of people who smoke marijuana regulary is higher than the ratio of people regulary smoking marijuana in the Netherlands, while over here marijuana is legalized. As a matter of fact I think the ratio of people who live in Amsterdam and smoke pot is even lower than the ratio of people who live in New York and smoke pot. Most people you see smoking pot in Amsterdam are tourists, Americans, British, Germans, who think it's cool to smoke pot because they can finally smoke it legally. As a matter of fact, if marijuana would have been legal worldwide most coffeeshops in Amsterdam would run out of business.
 
smellysocks12
No you don't, you idiot, read what I said, controlled distribution for addictive drugs.

I can read... repeating, capitalizing, making bold and increasing the size of what you said in an earlier post, won't really do anything but making you look like a stubborn activist who can't find relevant arguments to counter what I said.

...and how do you think calling me an idiot is making you look...

At any rate, I'll be back tomorrow to counter what you said.
 
MrktMkr1986
...and how do you think calling me an idiot is making you look...

At any rate, I'll be back tomorrow to counter what you said.


Looking forward to it, the idiot was for disregarding what I said and simply repeating what you said before. Controlled distribution of harddrugs on doctor's prescription will NOT increase the amount of junkies. That's a fact, if you want to disregard facts then you're biased and have a subjective view on the topic. I shouldn't have said idiot, but that more or less rolled out without thinking about it.
 
MrktMkr1986
Wrong... marijuana smoke contains over 400 different chemical. It is 3x more dangerous than cigarettes because the THC is fat-soluable. Not to mention the fact that marijuana has more tar than cigarettes are well.
While cigarettes contain over 2000. What the hell is the point you're getting at? Marijuana doesn't have to be smoked. If you cook it or eat it, it's the exact same effect as taking marinol tablets - which you have already asserted to saying are safe.
Yes, THC is fat soluble. The only thing that means is it can be cooked into anything with a high fat content. The fat solubility of THC means absolutely NOTHING in terms of the effects on a person's body. Do your research before you come up with these wild claims.
Cigarette smokers also take far more puffs off their cigs. They also typically go through several cigarettes a day. Marijuana users will typically never have more than 1 joint in any given day. 2 or 3 in extreme cases. That's still far less tar intake than the 5-10 cigs per day that a cigarette smoker will take in. Furthermore, Marijuana can be taken with food rather than smoked. Thus avoiding any smoke in the first place.

And if you don't think the damage is permanent, you are deluding yourself as well.
No, he's probably not. The body can very easily restore itself of minor damage if it's given time. Light smokers who quit will soon find it easier to breathe and given time, their lungs will typically go at least close to the way they were before the person started smoking.

Anyone who promotes drug legalization is either short-sighted or EXTREMELY selfish -- PERIOD.
For an economics guy, you're the most short sighted person I've ever met. Do you have any idea as to the economic benefits to these things if they were legalized?


----

Anyways, I'm out of this arguement for a few days. I've had fun doing this, but it's not going anywhere, MrktMkr is just recycling the same select group of arguements over and over, and most of them are extremely short sighted - from the fact that you willingly want to limit people's right to choose, the fact that you don't see any of the economics related issues related to legalization as well as the fact that you have yet to provide any valid information on legalization's detrimental impacts on society. Of course, the lack of arguements is also causing the rest of us to regurgitate the same information to refute the same claims over and over.

If anyone would like to further comment on this topic, I'd strongly reccomend that you read the previous 5 or so pages of posts before you put in your input. If you have anything new to add, go for it. If anyone wants to help support MrktMkr by helping tossing in a greater variety of arguements against drugs/marijuana than has already been covered, that would be stellar.

Now, I'm off to study for my economics exam 👎
 
For an economics guy, you're the most short sighted person I've ever met. Do you have any idea as to the economic benefits to these things if they were legalized?

You call me short-sighted, yet you completely ignore the social impact of drug legalization. Why don't we leave economic gain out of this conversation and stick to correcting the potential PROBLEMS with drug legalization? Can't you people see that that's what I'm trying do?
 
MrktMkr1986
You call me short-sighted, yet you completely ignore the social impact of drug legalization. Why don't we leave economic gain out of this conversation and stick to correcting the potential PROBLEMS with drug legalization?
Again. You say social impact but you have yet to provide anything to even hint at proving the claim.

Can't you people see that that's what I'm trying do?
To be honest, no I don't. I tried looking at it from your viewpoint, but I still don't see it.
 
Back