DTM V - Race 7 - Suzuka - 03/01

[jnrbshp]

For the clks just use a power or weight penalty...forget about pp

..they have more downforce so take away horsepower or add weight...

Of course you're going to have to test to see what is an acceptable penalty but that would make it the most fair

 

[RaciGManiac]

Pre-Season Races did go well for me some good battles here and there , can't wait for the 1st race of the season in my BMW M3 GTR!

 

[Goruk]

Ok guys, this gonna bite me in the future but anyway this series is about fairness and honesty so here we go.

Yesterday I was using DF at 37/57 engine upgrade 3 and hight rev turbo running 498cv and 600pp if I recall correctly.

I believe that if we go for PP limit and PP penalty the CLK will not have the same advantage as if we go with Weight/power only, the same aplies to the BMW and his insane Torque.

If we go for Weight/Power with weight penaltys, a easy way of checking the DF at the CLK is to see how many PP it would lost and then checking it when entering track.

I' gonna regret this

 

[SymP]

I think that's not possible in every situation (besides more extra work for the host)

Let's say we have a TT-R with 1190 kg and a CLK with 1170 kg, then:
1 - host sets minimum weight on 1190 kg
2 - TT-R enters the track (1190kg / 592PP)
3 - host sets minimum weight to 1170
4 - CLK enters track (1170kg / 591PP)
5 - host sets min. PP to 591PP
TT-R gets kicked out

It's possible to go on though (TT-R is not allowed to enter setup after getting kicked out)

6 - host sets min. PP back to 598
7 - TT-R re-enters the track
and so on...

But it can all become very complicated...


I don't see any other way to solve this issues than using the PP system. Otherwise we just have to accept that the CLK's have a technical advantage...

 

[SymP]

Pre-Season Races did go well for me some good battles here and there , can't wait for the 1st race of the season in my BMW M3 GTR!

Hope we can get these M3's to the top this season! 👍

(you should read "Chapter 04: Pit Etiquette" of the GTP OLR Rules once again though because I have seen some peculiar moves from you entering the pit)

 

[djdaveyp85]

Why change the rules. The racing was really close with the rules last season. I think the advantage the CLK has is minimal. I was able to match greens pace in it last season and beat the other clks in my humble m3. ANyway there was a gentlemans agreement to keep the pp down and you could police it by doing random checks every now and again.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

 

[Goruk]

Well Davey, your humble M3 with Weight/Power regs have an advantage as well, it have massive torque, the thing is, with PP you will have to cut on the power to get the car inside regs. If I was you, I wouldn't like that either....

 

[Green]

I think that's not possible in every situation (besides more extra work for the host)

Let's say we have a TT-R with 1190 kg and a CLK with 1170 kg, then:
1 - host sets minimum weight on 1190 kg
2 - TT-R enters the track (1190kg / 592PP)
3 - host sets minimum weight to 1170
4 - CLK enters track (1170kg / 591PP)
5 - host sets min. PP to 591PP
TT-R gets kicked out

It's possible to go on though (TT-R is not allowed to enter setup after getting kicked out)

6 - host sets min. PP back to 598
7 - TT-R re-enters the track
and so on...

But it can all become very complicated...


I don't see any other way to solve this issues than using the PP system. Otherwise we just have to accept that the CLK's have a technical advantage...

Symp you would just pp check everyone 1st then do weight checks for everyone. yes it will take a little longer than doing pp and weight but not much longer. Or just do it the way we did it last year because I think the CLK will gain more of an advantage from it being 600pp than adding a few DF clicks when its got weight.

Thats my view but I never seen the pre season so I don't how close it was at 600pp I've only had few practice session to base my opinon on, but I don't think the 600pp has solved any of the problems that we need it to solve.

 

[SymP]

Symp you would just pp check everyone 1st then do weight checks for everyone. yes it will take a little longer than doing pp and weight but not much longer. Or just do it the way we did it last year because I think the CLK will gain more of an advantage from it being 600pp than adding a few DF clicks when its got weight.

With the experience of last seasons with people going into setup during the track entrance procedure or showing up late I'm not looking forward being the host then. DJ?

But I was aiming for a less complicated process, having cars more equal (at least theoretically) and I also liked the infinite penalty idea. The whole idea about the regs and weight penalty is to have the sum of car and driver equal to each other to create more close competitive racing. I think we realized that already more or less but we must always try to reach perfection.

Anyway, I sense there's no majority to change the current regs so I guess we'll stick to the old rules then.

So let's move on. How about the tracks and team formations JT?

 

[GTP_J_Turner]

Something in there^ just made it click for me. The PP penalty system will even most people up by 2 or 3 races. I think we should try it for this season and see how we go.
I'll do an update tonight, teams, tracks etc.

 

[SymP]

^ Great to hear! 👍

To give you some help. I filtered out the people who did not register or won't participate from the track vote:

F1 tour A: 11 votes
F1 tour B: 5 votes
European tour B: 4 votes
European tour A: 3 votes
US tour: 2 votes
Japanese tour: 2 vote

F1 Tour A
Circuit De Spa-Francorchamps (Weather)
Road Course – Indianapolis
Suzuka Circuit (Weather)​

F1 Tour B
Autodromo Nazionale Monza (Weather)
Fuji Speedway F
Côte d’Azur​

If you plan Monaco on the 22nd this month I will be a happy man. I won't be able to race that day

 

[pipi_r6]

If you plan Monaco on the 22nd this month I will be a happy man. I won't be able to race that day

Smart Symp LOL.

I i'll be sick that day. loooooooool

 

[aBrick]

Try PP for a season, however will the weight still be the same (1120kg + penalties?).

Also was thinking, why are the Alfa, Calibra and the 190E not used?? could they not be used as the privateer teams?? (think someone mentioned this earlier)

Just a thought!

 

[GTP_J_Turner]

I'll update all the rules tonight but weight will be MINIMUM 1120kg. You can add more weight so that you can add more power or downforce. But you cant decrease it. Penalty Performance Points will replace penalty weight.
Schedule will be random. I'll sent symp a list of tracks and someone else a list of 1 to 6. That person will choose the order without knowing which track corresponds to which number. All i will say is Cote dAzur willnotbe the final race of the season. Could be too much riding on it. If it is picked as the last race it will swap with race 5. Also need to find out if we want a SpecialStage

 

[SymP]

Lol You always surprise me with your creativities! I'm waiting for the numbers...

About the SS. Absolutely! The same format as DTM4 please. Think we need a track with space and not much grass on the side...

 

[GTP_J_Turner]

Sent a msg to pipi when he was online but now he is not, so, sent the same msg to some other senior DTM member. Who ever posts first is the schedue we will go with. Hopefully it will be soon so i can sort it out...

A Special Stage means the season final race will be 27th of December. Or we fit it in between races..

 

[pipi_r6]

4,6,3,1,5,2

Done

 

[Goruk]

Damn!!!!

 

[GTP_J_Turner]

4,6,3,1,5,2

Thats my lottery6 numbers picked for the weekend....

4 Côte d’Azur
6 Suzuka Circuit (Weather)
3 Circuit De Spa-Francorchamps (Weather)
Special Stage
1 Road Course – Indianapolis
5 Autodromo Nazionale Monza (Weather)
2 Fuji Speedway F

Thanks Pipi, unlucky Goruk. Too slow (on this occasion)

 

[pipi_r6]

Damn!!!!

Scary, uuuuuuhhhhh

 

[djdaveyp85]

Guys. Thanks but I'm going to give it a miss. Don't like the rules. Good luck and I hope you all have a good season.

 

[SymP]

Oh dear, race 1 Monaco and now I'm gonna miss Suzuka. You're always that good with number picking Pipi?

So what are the laps and pit windows for:
- Monaco
- SPA (needs a little bit more than this week I think)
- Indianapolis
- Fuji

 

[anastasis14]

Are we gonna vote for special stage???

 

[IMMORTALPILOT]

i want to join is a place free??

 

[GTP_J_Turner]

Opening post updated. Rules to follow.

Also, although i would love to have it, i think we need to ditch the weather races. Too much, too soon. GT5DTM not ready for it i would say. Something for future maybe...

Rules Updated

If everyone can go over them and let me know if i have missed anything or if something is not right. Thanks.

 

[Goruk]

Just one question JT, there's no limit to the amount of penalty PP a Driver/car can be given?

 

[GTP_J_Turner]

Internet usage about to run out so i'll make it quick.

Cote d'Azur Lap is about 1:30 to 1:40 i think. Need some testing.
So provisionally
Laps: 40 +1 Formation Lap
Pit window 1: 9->16
Pit window 2: 25->32

May change after testing though.

 

[GTP_J_Turner]

^^5 x 3. Minimum would be 585PP. If someone wins 5 races in a row then they will prob still win race 6 with 15PP less than everyone else. BTW no one will start a race with more than 600PP just to clear that up too.

See you next week, my time is up....

 

[Green]

Opening post updated. Rules to follow.

Also, although i would love to have it, i think we need to ditch the weather races. Too much, too soon. GT5DTM not ready for it i would say. Something for future maybe...

Rules Updated

If everyone can go over them and let me know if i have missed anything or if something is not right. Thanks.

rules look fine JT, are you wanting me to take your a4 ? I never got a reply..... and who picked Monaco and Fuji 👎 I could actually live with monaco but I can't stand Fuji lol

 

[GTP_J_Turner]

Im going to keep the A4 as i dont want to use the Opel. Like the sound of the A4 so at least if im at the back i will still have nice sounds in my ears.
My best time from a quick test at Cote last night was 1.31.7xx on softs. Dont know if symps lounge was fully setup with race rules though.