Eminem: As bad as 50 cent

[Swift]

And recreated his album.

Oh wait my sister did get me the G-unit album which includes 50 cent.

Did YOU pay for the downloaded music?

 

[Young_Warrior]

No but at the end of the day it all comes out of the same pocket. Why did she get me it? Cause she knew that I like them.

What music do you listen to btw?

 

[Swift]

No but at the end of the day it all comes out of the same pocket. Why did she get me it? Cause she knew that I like them.

What music do you listen to btw?

That's not the issue. The issue is that your defending an artist in which you steal from. I guess you have a few songs legally, but it sounds like the majority of the songs from 50 cent that you have are downloaded. So to me, your entire argument is moot because you won't even support an artisist that you feel is extremely talented.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

That's not the issue. The issue is that your defending an artist in which you steal from. I guess you have a few songs legally, but it sounds like the majority of the songs from 50 cent that you have are downloaded. So to me, your entire argument is moot because you won't even support an artisist that you feel is extremely talented.

One could argue that theft is a form of flattery.

 

[Young_Warrior]

That's not the issue. The issue is that your defending an artist in which you steal from. I guess you have a few songs legally, but it sounds like the majority of the songs from 50 cent that you have are downloaded. So to me, your entire argument is moot because you won't even support an artisist that you feel is extremely talented.

Because I know millions of others will.

The only time I do buy an album is that of the likes of upcoming british artists such as kano even though I prefer 50 cent.

 

[Dave A]

A couple of people here who dislike 50 cent but who like hip hop have themselves said that 50 cent unlike many other rappers doesnt talk about killing and shooting people anywher as much as you would like to think. Infact hes probably on par with eminem.

And did you guys not say rap is crap because everyone talks about killig and shooting yet you guys like eminem cause he doesnt do it alot.

1st off, can you quote someone else besides yourself saying that, I must have missde it.

2nd, prefer is different to like, and theres been a few reasons people have said they prefer Eminem, sure I think a single member has said they don't like 50 cent but they "like" Eminem or something to that extent, but thats it.

 

[F1GTR]

One could argue that theft is a form of flattery.

I think if an artist is good enough, you should buy their album.

 

[Dave A]

The only time I do buy an album is that of the likes of upcoming british artists such as kano even though I prefer 50 cent.

So your racist then .

Thats a joke btw.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

So your racist then .

That's not racism. That's class warfare. 50 Cent is rich and I think it's safe to assume that "up-and-coming" artists are not...

 

[Swift]

One could argue that theft is a form of flattery.

Or laziness.

 

[Dave A]

That's not racism. That's class warfare. 50 Cent is rich and I think it's safe to assume that "up-and-coming" artists are not...

Up and coming BRITISH artists, as in not American, or anywhere else, he specifically said British, either way it was intended as a joke however there is something in that comment regarding twisting of words.

 

[Dave A]

One could argue that theft is a form of flattery.

In a sence, however pirate downloads require pretty much no effort and very, very, very low risk, planning to steal the Mona Lisa has a certain risk and effort value attached to the job, downloading the new 50 cent album doesn't. By downloading the album your saying it's not worth out for.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Yeah british but mainly UK garage artists who are going commercial. However rolldeep and wiley they wouldnt get any of my money. They changed their image too much but I wish them all the best.

 

[James2097]

Im not painting anyone as anything but instead I was merely asking.I never once called anyone racist or anyhting close of the sort.

Its a fine line. Its called inference. You bring up the race issue over and over. This could be constrewed as having a chip on your shoulder, even though you frame the question in a relatively non-accusational way. You do subtly paint people as a bit racist (or at least a bit xenophobic) whether you are aware of it or not. Maybe you just have a slight issue about it in the old subconcious. Its a common occurence on these forums (seen it more than once or twice) and its quite annoying for other users regardless of what you feel you really say. Its really not a big issue, but you should be aware of it.

So you guys dont own 50 cent albums but some of you own eminem albums. Yet you all claim (well most of you except for the few honest ones) that 50 cent has done more violent songs than eminem. How can you come to that conclusion when you dont even own a 50 cent album. A couple of people here who dislike 50 cent but who like hip hop have themselves said that 50 cent unlike many other rappers doesnt talk about killing and shooting people anywher as much as you would like to think. Infact hes probably on par with eminem.

We don't need to own any rap albums. Everyone has valid perceptions of artists and are usually spot on if we hear (and more importantly are forced to listen to) their work regularly. This is all that's required to have a meaningful opinion. You have strong opinions about plenty of music (rock for instance) and you wouldn't own even the tiniest percentage of it (even as illegal downloads).
Personally, I can analyse music very quickly, music is something I really have a strong interest in. In fact I only need to listen to a song once to permanently remember I've heard it, and can usually recall exactly how it goes later on. A very annoying skill given the sheer dire-ness of much pop music these days. Your opinion is NO more special than anyone else's. If you're going to debate the entire validity of everyone else's opinions, you can close the thread now.

And did you guys not say rap is crap because everyone talks about killig and shooting yet you guys like eminem cause he doesnt do it alot.

We never said we liked Eminem, quite the opposite, as we've CLEARLY said. Over and over. Please, everyone else is not quite as black and white about things. We say one thing, you shouldn't infer the opposite. We don't think Eminem is quite as crap as 50 cent. Both are akin to doggy excrement. We've given reasons why Eminem had an influence on the genre in a slightly original way, something 50 cent simply hasn't done in a musical sense. If you want to contest this fact, you'll just get laughed at really hard. By EVERYONE.

You're just hugely blinkered because you like 50 cent. A lot.

Well tehre are plenty of rappers out there who are popular who dont do it at all.

We are directly analysing the work of Eminem and 50 cent, in regards to their perceived difference and musical quality among the general populace (in this case GTPlanet members). Any other rappers are irrelevant to the discourse partaken in regards this thread. As I summed up in my little rap. I thought it was quite good actually, as far as someone who has never rapped before. Its very easy to make it flow well, can't see any real skill there.

Got what Im sayin now James2097?

Please try to work out why you've no idea how to debate in an intelligent or productive manner. Being wrong doesn't really help your position I might add.

There is a reason everyone is frustrated with you, or just laughing generally (me).

 

[Young_Warrior]

Thats all very nice TBH im tired of debating but this thread never started as a eminem vs 50 cent. It first started as a 50 cent genius or no genius and then mutated into that rap music is crap and requires no talent butalot of you gave props to eminem for not talking about shooting and killing and guns and woman when he did somethin in which you are now seemingly evading.

The thing is lets looks athe the type of people in the opuions forum. 98% of the people here dont listen to rap music or hi hop for that matter. If I was to take this thread over to where there are people more like me this thread would have turned out very different.

You guys dont listen to rap yet you hate it.
I dont listen to rock pop or grunge because I dislike it yet I never denounce people who do like it.

As for talent required between rap music and rock the argument is invalid. Who chooses what exactly is talent. At the end of the day each artist is out there to get as many fans as possible. And who decides what goes into rap music or hip hop music? If an artists wants to they could start out witha rock song which they made and then decided to put some hip hop beats along with it and make it a hip hop track. Does that have less or more talnet than rock?

 

[Dave A]

Thats all very nice TBH im tired of debating but this thread never started as a eminem vs 50 cent. It first started as a 50 cent genius or no genius and then mutated into that rap music is crap and requires no talent butalot of you gave props to eminem for not talking about shooting and killing and guns and woman when he did somethin in which you are now seemingly evading

Respectively Eminem doesn't rap about that stuff as often as 50 cent, no ones avoided that issue, it's just been covered so theres no need to carry on about it.

The thing is lets looks athe the type of people in the opuions forum. 98% of the people here dont listen to rap music or hi hop for that matter. If I was to take this thread over to where there are people more like me this thread would have turned out very different.

This is a international forum full of random people from all over the world, thats a pretty big sweeping generalisation about the people on this site. Not bashing you for it, just pointing out, you made a genalisation after telling me that was a bad thing to do.

You guys dont listen to rap yet you hate it.
I dont listen to rock pop or grunge because I dislike it yet I never denounce people who do like it.

We've all listened to it, the reason we don't actively listen to it is becasue we don't like it, if we liked it we'd buy the albums. Were hardly going to tune into RAP FM if we don't like rap.

As for talent required between rap music and rock the argument is invalid. Who chooses what exactly is talent. At the end of the day each artist is out there to get as many fans as possible. And who decides what goes into rap music or hip hop music? If an artists wants to they could start out witha rock song which they made and then decided to put some hip hop beats along with it and make it a hip hop track. Does that have less or more talnet than rock?

Talent - Someone who has) a natural ability to be good at something, especially without being taught.

The better a type of talent is depends on how difficult the task is. Ie, you have more talent being able to cook a sunday roast well than to microwave some McKanes microwave chips.

 

[Young_Warrior]

So doesnt say like Dr.Dre have immense talent to be one of the best producers in the world which is backed up by the fact that hes one of the most powerful men in music or did a couple hundread million people just have bad taste in music and the odd tens of million people who like rock have good taste?

 

[James2097]

You guys dont listen to rap yet you hate it.
I dont listen to rock pop or grunge because I dislike it yet I never denounce people who do like it.

We never denouced people that are into rap. Only that we didn't like rap. You are VERY free and easy with inferring rubbish we don't say.

As for talent required between rap music and rock the argument is invalid. Who chooses what exactly is talent. At the end of the day each artist is out there to get as many fans as possible. And who decides what goes into rap music or hip hop music? If an artists wants to they could start out witha rock song which they made and then decided to put some hip hop beats along with it and make it a hip hop track. Does that have less or more talnet than rock?

As an example, Jimi Hendrix had far more talent than any rapper. Part of talent is that no one can easily copy what that supremely talented person can do, because its really really hard to do. One should have a sheer sense of awe and amazement when seeing a genuinely talented person perform or hearing his or her music. It should also sound unlike anyone else, to be supremely original.
Real talent makes people stand out above the crowd, far into the future. Not many rappers have achieved this level of lasting affect so far in a really breakthrough way. I know you'll debate this, but you have to realise you think everyone is a genius.

Other than that, what liveforspeed said. 👍

 

[Flame-returns]

Jimi Hendrix had far more talent than any rapper. Part of talent is that no one can easily copy what that supremely talented person can do, because its really really hard to do. One should have a sheer sense of awe and amazement when seeing a genuinely talented person perform or hearing their music. It should also not sound like anyone else, to be supremely original.
Real talent makes people stand out above the crowd, far into the future. Not many rappers have achieved this level of lasting affect or stand out above the crowd in a really breakthrough way of late.

Other than that, what liveforspeed said. 👍

Try singing verse 2 of Hold Ya Mouth (by Dizzee Rascal) it require amazing talent to sing without geting complketely tounge twisted, even if you can sing it chances are you can't sing it anywhere near as fast as Dizzee Rascal.

 

[Danoff]

Try singing verse 2 of Hold Ya Mouth (by Dizzee Rascal) it require amazing talent to sing without geting complketely tounge twisted, even if you can sing it chances are you can't sing it anywhere near as fast as Dizzee Rascal.

Did you ever see the micro machines commericals? That one guy who talked really really fast? Ever been to an auction? This is not impressive.

 

[Dave A]

Try singing verse 2 of Hold Ya Mouth (by Dizzee Rascal) it require amazing talent to sing without geting complketely tounge twisted, even if you can sing it chances are you can't sing it anywhere near as fast as Dizzee Rascal.

Thats true, but the same can be said about getting the right tones and notes when singing or playing an instrument. If your rapping to a beat you're only doing half of what Hendrix did, hedidn't rap but he sang and played at the same time. With regards to just singing and rapping, it would depend on the lyrics, tones and speeds ect of the lyrisc, but rapping doesn't require as much talent as singing AND playing an instruemtn or two (Bob Dylan).

 

[James2097]

Try singing verse 2 of Hold Ya Mouth (by Dizzee Rascal) it require amazing talent to sing without geting complketely tounge twisted, even if you can sing it chances are you can't sing it anywhere near as fast as Dizzee Rascal.

Its not about whether I could personally rap as well, its about the fact that many more people on the planet could copy Dizzee than copy Hendrix. Hendrix is infinately harder to pull off. If you doubt this, take note that there is no one on Earth (including every famous guitar player since Hendrix's death) that can copy Hendrix well, and believe me, everyone's tried very hard.

 

[Young_Warrior]

We never denouced people that are into rap. Only that we didn't like rap. You are VERY free and easy with inferring rubbish we don't say.

After several of your generalisations about what we have been talking about in this thread I have deduced that you obviously havent read all of it. There are lots of people who outright have come out and said its crap.

As an example, Jimi Hendrix had far more talent than any rapper. Part of talent is that no one can easily copy what that supremely talented person can do, because its really really hard to do. One should have a sheer sense of awe and amazement when seeing a genuinely talented person perform or hearing his or her music. It should also sound unlike anyone else, to be supremely original.
Real talent makes people stand out above the crowd, far into the future. Not many rappers have achieved this level of lasting affect so far in a really breakthrough way. I know you'll debate this, but you have to realise you think everyone is a genius.

[/QUOTE]

TUPAC!!!!!!!!!!!
As for hendrix santana could rival him. But back in the day look at all the people who were announced as geniuses but up against some of todays artists they wernt all that good. The pedastal has been highered over time like everything else.

Plus how can you say hendrix had far more talent than any rppper when they were in different categories. Thts like saying My motorbike is better than your car.
My enzo is better than your maybach.

Crap argument.

 

[Dave A]

After several of your generalisations about what we have been talking about in this thread I have deduced that you obviously havent read all of it. There are lots of people who outright have come out and said its crap.

Yes we have, but we never said anything bad about anyone who likes rap, which you inferred we did.

As for hendrix santana could rival him. But back in the day look at all the people who were announced as geniuses but up against some of todays artists they wernt all that good. The pedastal has been highered over time like everything else.

First off, Santana was good, not as good as Hendrix, not close. Anyone who plays a guitar well or understands how to play well will tell you that.

Plus how can you say hendrix had far more talent than any rppper when they were in different categories. Thts like saying My motorbike is better than your car.
My enzo is better than your maybach.

Crap argument.

It's like doing a Lasagne or bacon balm, both are cooking but the Bacon balm is easier to do, it requires less talent. They're still different Lasagne is a meal and a bacon balm is a snack but you still know which takes more talent to do.

 

[Danoff]

But music isn't about talent and never will be. That's why I'm not impressed when someone says they can rap really fast. It's also why I'm not a big fan of dream theater. Sure those guys are super talented, but music is about a lot more than that.

Think of it like art. The best painting isn't necessarily the one with the most detail (talent). It's the one that speaks to people. That touches them on an emotional level and/or makes them think.

The reason hendrix was great wasn't because he was technically talented, it was because his playing had a raw emotional quality that touched people. If he didn't have all of the talent he had, he would never have been able to play like that - but the talent is only a means to an end, not an end in and of itself.

I was watching the Pasadena Pops not long ago play some classical pieces. During part of the show they were featuring some talented high schoolers.

One guy got up on stage and did a violin solo, and he was very talented. The conductor announced that he was 16 years old (or something like that) and the audience gasped. You could hear people "oh my gosh, can you imagine? He's only 16 and he plays so amazingly".

Personally I wasn't impressed. The kid did a lot of flashy stuff and played a lot of notes - a technically hard piece. But his performance was dry, it had no heart. It wasn't a moving performance, it was talent for talent's sake. The kid had a lot to learn, it sounded like a talented 16 year old, not like a pro.

Musical performances have several aspects. They require sufficient talent so that the artist isn't hindered. They typically require good poetic writing. But that isn't the meat of the performance. The meat is in the tune... again think of it like a painting. Is it beautiful in its way? Does it speak to people? Is it emotional?

For this reason rappers cannot hang their hats on lyrics - there are many better writers. They cannot hang their hats on talent - there are many far more talented people. Musicians have to hang their hats on their sound - and rap has none. A beat is the most basic aspect of most modern music- this and fast talking is all that rap has - which is why I don't consider it music and I don't consider rappers musicians. They're entertainers, but not musicians. Much like a bowler is not an athelete and gymnastics is not a sport.

 

[Dave A]

Thats a superb post Danoff.

 

[James2097]

After several of your generalisations about what we have been talking about in this thread I have deduced that you obviously havent read all of it. There are lots of people who outright have come out and said its crap.

I never generalise. All my opinions are informed, otherwise I would not give them. You still haven't read what I've said. People have said rap is crap, but they haven't said everyone who listens to it or are into it are (crap). You have deducted pure rubbish.

TUPAC!!!!!!!!!!!
As for hendrix santana could rival him. But back in the day look at all the people who were announced as geniuses but up against some of todays artists they wernt all that good. The pedastal has been highered over time like everything else.

Plus how can you say hendrix had far more talent than any rppper when they were in different categories. Thts like saying My motorbike is better than your car.
My enzo is better than your maybach.

Hendrix is known for being talented, a true genius. Groundbreaking beyond belief. Perhaps more so than any pop musician ever, and certainly more than any rock guitarist ever. If you can't hear the absolute magical domination of his guitar playing, too bad. He's pretty much known as one of the very greatest ever figures in music (in general). Any musicologist would laugh pretty hard if you mentioned Tupac or Santana were even on the same planet as Hendrix in terms of sheer talent. You can compare talent across these different genres if the disparity (difference) in talent is so completely VAST.

Crap argument.

Its like debating a child.



Edit: Great post danoff, I agree 100%.

 

[Swift]

I KNOW this thread isn't really 20 pages long with almost 400 replies, is it?

 

[Young_Warrior]

Well I agreed with you untill your last paragraph.

It is like art. the most detailed isnt the best but instead the one which appeals most to the public and creates some kind of emotion inside them that they enjoy.

Rap music mainly makes people laugh and dance. And so its puprose is fulfilled and rap music is good. It does what it says. Its like crunk music. No lyrical talent in it but crunk music is pretty much dance music and thats the whole point of it and so its succesful.

One could argue that 50 cent is more talented than because he has managed to make his chosen genre one of the most succesful in the world whilst rock isnt.

 

[Young_Warrior]

Its like debating with a child.

Ditto


So you say a music specialist would laugh at my opinon well who exactly made them the boss to decide whats good and what isnt?

Its not a democracy and at the end of the day people choose and sales speak alot more than some toffy nosed man born in the 60's.