- 1,300
- CZE
- novcze
If you're not a socialist at twenty you have no heart ... you know how this saying continues ;-)
Europe - The Official Thread
- Thread starter Touring Mars
- 2,132 comments
- 115,218 views
If you're not a socialist at twenty you have no heart ... you know how this saying continues ;-)
mister dog
(Banned)
- 8,396
- Spain
- misterdog
- misterdog7
- 31,499
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Press release from the ECB.
6 July 2015 - ELA to Greek banks maintained
ELA can only be provided against sufficient collateral.
The financial situation of the Hellenic Republic has an impact on Greek banks since the collateral they use in ELA relies to a significant extent on government-linked assets.
In this context, the Governing Council decided today to adjust the haircuts on collateral accepted by the Bank of Greece for ELA.
The Governing Council is closely monitoring the situation in financial markets and the potential implications for the monetary policy stance and for the balance of risks to price stability in the euro area. The Governing Council is determined to use all the instruments available within its mandate.
So, for now no extra money for the Greek banks. Which means that they will run out of money soon.
6 July 2015 - ELA to Greek banks maintained
- Emergency liquidity assistance maintained at 26 June 2015 level
- Haircuts on collateral for ELA adjusted
- Governing Council closely monitoring situation in financial markets
ELA can only be provided against sufficient collateral.
The financial situation of the Hellenic Republic has an impact on Greek banks since the collateral they use in ELA relies to a significant extent on government-linked assets.
In this context, the Governing Council decided today to adjust the haircuts on collateral accepted by the Bank of Greece for ELA.
The Governing Council is closely monitoring the situation in financial markets and the potential implications for the monetary policy stance and for the balance of risks to price stability in the euro area. The Governing Council is determined to use all the instruments available within its mandate.
So, for now no extra money for the Greek banks. Which means that they will run out of money soon.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
Russia actually has the cash to buy all 300 billion of Greek debt. But it would blow their entire wad.If it was the corporate world, Russia Inc. would take over the insolvent Greece Inc., assuming all ownership of assets and debts.
Ta da! Russia now has a Mediterranean port, and can leave Ukraine alone
They already have a small naval base in Syria. If they really wanted another, this would probably be cheaper than a war with NATO.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
Fortunately, no.
But they do have an agreement to put in a new pipeline to Greece and make Greece their energy distribution hub for Europe, bypassing Ukraine completely. Greece will benefit greatly, but it will take a few years. Expect a greater Russian naval and air presence in the Mediterranean.
mister dog
(Banned)
- 8,396
- Spain
- misterdog
- misterdog7
Apparently the European politicians (i hate the word leaders), were not impressed with the Greek PM today, they didn't come with a single proposal for reforms by themselves after voting 'no' this weekend...
Promised to write something up by tomorrow though
Promised to write something up by tomorrow though
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
They had a 47 page plan for reforms submitted a few days ago which were dismissed without reading. With the new finance minister, the Greek proposal was only that 47 page plan plus a few tweakings by the new FM. It doesn't technically satisfy the ECB, but its Merkel and very few others who will decide. They are still reeling in confusion, but they must act within days, and they will.
- 29,063
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
I certainly hope for the sake of the Greek people and my Greek friends that their government and PM etc. are not waiting on the EU to craft a 'rescue' plan that is going to solve Greece's debt issues once and for all, without any substantive reform of the way Greece runs her financial affairs - because it ain't going to happen.
Considering Greece have had years to address this issue, and are in more dire need of assistance than ever before, it is quite astonishing to see just how intransigent Greece's leadership are being, and how much they are gambling on the EU (collectively and separately) caving in and basically rewriting the rules on how the entire European apparatus is supposed to work, simply to accommodate a basket case economy that has shown little to no sign of trying to help itself.
If they are not careful (and they have showing little sign of it thus far), Greece will find itself in a situation where the EU cannot help any more - it is simply not the case that it is for Merkel, Germany or anyone else to simply change their minds and decide to start being nice to Greece, despite what some of the more deluded commentators (esp. in Greece) seem to think. Apart from anything else, it is not merely the fate of Greece, but the fate of all Eurozone economies that must be taken into consideration - hence why Greece are playing a very dangerous game in presuming that they can make whatever demands they want on the European and international institutions.
- 29,063
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
- 15,994
- United Kingdom
- haitch40
- Xbox?
You all missed the point.
This Greek thing is interesting. Europe are now in a position of bail out Greece under Greek terms or kick them out the Euro. If they kick them out the Euro then the Euro will tank and 🤬 everyone over. Basically Greece played this very well.
This Greek thing is interesting. Europe are now in a position of bail out Greece under Greek terms or kick them out the Euro. If they kick them out the Euro then the Euro will tank and 🤬 everyone over. Basically Greece played this very well.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
I take it this means I'm winning my bet!
- 29,063
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Nope... the situation is exactly the same as it was before. You forgot the most likely option - that the Greeks will accept reality and agree to the terms of her creditors - they basically have to.
If they don't, Greece will collapse. The Euro will take a hit, but it will survive - the rest of Europe has no interest in ditching the Euro.
If the EU were to do what the Greek government are expecting it to do - basically write off their debt and bankroll them without any reform of the way Greece operates day to day - then the entire Eurozone would collapse. Furthermore, there is no mechanism or legal precedent that allows the EU to do this anyway - frankly, the Greek demands are (and have always been) completely unacceptable and bordering on the impossible.
Greece, on the other hand, does still have a choice, and to be fair the EU are leaving the door open as long as they can - but Tsipras and Syriza have frankly shown no appetite for real negotiation, and seem hellbent on clinging to the forlorn hope that somehow they can get it all their own way. They can't, and they won't.
I take it this means I'm winning my bet!
Err, hardly. Look at the news stories coming out of Brussels right now - are the EU looking more or less likely to yield to Greece? It's certainly not the former.
- 31,499
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Not really. The Euro and the Eurozone can handle it very well if Greece leaves/is forced out.
The EU just doesn't want a member to crumble, or give in to their terms of credit loans. If one country could get away with it, what's going to stop others from spending way beyond their capabilities, expecting the EU to bail them out on their terms?
Edit.
Tree'd. All the way from Mars.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
Yes, more likely.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33437797
Mr Hollande said on Tuesday the ECB would now ensure minimum liquidity for Greece until Sunday.
- 29,063
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
I don't follow...
The decision to maintain the ELA and prop up Greek banks for 4 more days is hardly a capitulation by the EU... on the contrary, Greece have until Sunday to detail what reforms they are going to implement in order to qualify for a new 1.5-2 year bailout or it is game over.
The decision to maintain the ELA and prop up Greek banks for 4 more days is hardly a capitulation by the EU... on the contrary, Greece have until Sunday to detail what reforms they are going to implement in order to qualify for a new 1.5-2 year bailout or it is game over.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
- 31,499
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Actually they have till Thursday to come up with their new demands, and it can't be a sheet of paper. It needs to be a well sorted plan. And then the EU have till Sunday (at the 28 country summit) to come to an agreement, or not.
Greece needs to pay 3.5 billion back to the ECB before the 20th, if they miss that payment, the ECB will stop liquidity to the Greek Banks.
I said it before, the EU and all its politicians now more than ever need to show their balls and stick with their plan. If they cave for Greece, it's the start of the end of the EU and Euro.
Greece needs to pay 3.5 billion back to the ECB before the 20th, if they miss that payment, the ECB will stop liquidity to the Greek Banks.
I said it before, the EU and all its politicians now more than ever need to show their balls and stick with their plan. If they cave for Greece, it's the start of the end of the EU and Euro.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
Prediction: The 47 page plan as submitted and tweaked will fly if Greek receives the boon of a 50% debt liquidation. Otherwise, Greece seeks alternative sources of credit/liquidity.
Haha. They have no balls; they are women or betas. If they don't cave for Greece, it starts the great unraveling, the taboo hanging over Merkel.
Last edited:
- 29,063
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
- 29,509
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
Monopoly is also a Greek word so they certainly do have a monopoly on political language. Maybe they ought to have a Greek Cognate Tax whereby you owe Greece money if you use Greek words or words of Greek origin. It will force linguistic purism on the rest of Europe, leading to a revival of traditional, folksy culture and then we'll all live happily ever after in our Druid mounds and neolithic forts.
No glossaries, no police, no phobias, no aeroplanes, no geometr, no atheists!
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
'Tis a democracy of pain, a crucifixion upon a cross of
- 29,063
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Very poetic but I completely disagree. Angela Merkel can only do a) what the German people and government allow her to do; b) what the rest of the EU agree with; c) what is legally possible and d) what is feasible within the timescales and frameworks in which she is compelled to operate. Merkel and the EU have made it clear from the outset what needs to be done - in contrast, Greek efforts have been persistently and deliberately vague, late and woefully unrealistic (not to mention morally and legally dubious).
- 23,800
- Philippines
Some local way is saying the Philippines should have gone Greek back at the collapse of the Marcos regime, because after capitulating to the IMF, our foreign debt is now $70b instead of just the $20b it was forty years ago.
Ignoring the fact that our debt-to-GDP radio is something like 30-ish percent and we've finally gone investment grade and are a net lender with the IMF instead of a net borrower... Yeah... Sure.
Greece, please let us know how well defaulting works in a few decades, a'ight?
Ignoring the fact that our debt-to-GDP radio is something like 30-ish percent and we've finally gone investment grade and are a net lender with the IMF instead of a net borrower... Yeah... Sure.
Greece, please let us know how well defaulting works in a few decades, a'ight?
- 31,499
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
I don't know if anyone has watched the meeting of the EP today, but Tsipras got burned by almost every speaker today.
He started out pretty confident when he walked in but as soon as the speeches started he started to shrink in his seat.
He started out pretty confident when he walked in but as soon as the speeches started he started to shrink in his seat.
