Europe - The Official Thread
- Thread starter Touring Mars
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Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
Not a bad guess! Trotsky did preach something like the notion of "permanent revolution". But I think that particular political philosophy has been appropriated by the neocons and neoliberals as a systematic destruction the existing class, commercial and nation/state order as cover for authoritarian globalism.Is that by Leon Trotsky?
- 3,070
- Norway
Not a bad guess! Trotsky did preach something like the notion of "permanent revolution". But I think that particular political philosophy has been appropriated by the neocons and neoliberals as a systematic destruction the existing class, commercial and nation/state order as cover for authoritarian globalism.
The late Irving Kristol, dubbed "the godfather of neo-conservatism", was in fact a Trotskyist.
His son, William Kristol, was a co founder of PNAC.
I tend to agree with your analysis.
- 31,701
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
Wallonia just pretty much killed the trade agreement between Europe and Canada, CETA, by keeping their foot down and saying no. The Belgian PM has said that he noe can not agree with the plan.
Now we wait if this has any effect on our spineless piece of **** PM Rutte, and see if it finally pushes him into accepting the no the Netherlands voted on in the Ukraine agreement.
Now we wait if this has any effect on our spineless piece of **** PM Rutte, and see if it finally pushes him into accepting the no the Netherlands voted on in the Ukraine agreement.
- 7,177
- Lisboa
- FLAT_TWELVE
First, to say that I have no side in this, I have no idea if the EU - Canada trade agreement is good or bad or what consequences come from this "veto" from a region within a country.
Second, to say that this is the cost of democracy lived to its full in the European Union, and we have to accept it.
I think the doubters will never be convinced, and "Brussels" will always be a good excuse for incompetent politicians and sensacionalist tabloids. But there you go, Wallonia - probably without reason but that doesn't matter now - had the power to stop a trade deal between economic and political giants.
Second, to say that this is the cost of democracy lived to its full in the European Union, and we have to accept it.
I think the doubters will never be convinced, and "Brussels" will always be a good excuse for incompetent politicians and sensacionalist tabloids. But there you go, Wallonia - probably without reason but that doesn't matter now - had the power to stop a trade deal between economic and political giants.
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I think this is a very significant moment for the EU, and it doesn't bode well for the UK's chances of negotiating a favourable deal with the EU post-Brexit... but, I don't think this is as much of a problem for the UK as it potentially is for the EU - if the EU cannot agree a trade deal with Canada because a region of one member state scuppers it, then what are the chances the EU will agree useful trade deals with anyone?
As a Remain voter, I made this point several times - that there are too many vested interests in the EU for the UK to successfully negotiate a decent trade deal after Brexit - and the Canadian trade deal disaster is strong evidence of this; if anything, the UK faces considerably more disagreement and hence a trade deal will probably not happen. But, with the UK free to make trade deals with whomever it wants (not possible before) and EU member states hamstrung by each other, then does this not put the UK at a considerable advantage over, say, Germany... and what does Germany do when it becomes obvious that a trade deal between the UK and Germany would be to our mutual advantage, even if the people of Wallonia, Catalonia or wherever might decide they don't like it?
Don't get me wrong though - I think the inability of the EU to do a trade deal with the UK will be to the detriment of everyone, and it is going to hurt the UK (possibly a lot)... but, surely the EU cannot go on like this when major economic powers like Germany are essentially having their international trade deals scuppered by other EU member states.
As a Remain voter, I made this point several times - that there are too many vested interests in the EU for the UK to successfully negotiate a decent trade deal after Brexit - and the Canadian trade deal disaster is strong evidence of this; if anything, the UK faces considerably more disagreement and hence a trade deal will probably not happen. But, with the UK free to make trade deals with whomever it wants (not possible before) and EU member states hamstrung by each other, then does this not put the UK at a considerable advantage over, say, Germany... and what does Germany do when it becomes obvious that a trade deal between the UK and Germany would be to our mutual advantage, even if the people of Wallonia, Catalonia or wherever might decide they don't like it?
Don't get me wrong though - I think the inability of the EU to do a trade deal with the UK will be to the detriment of everyone, and it is going to hurt the UK (possibly a lot)... but, surely the EU cannot go on like this when major economic powers like Germany are essentially having their international trade deals scuppered by other EU member states.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
If that were true, then you'd think general economic activity would slow and growth would shrink. That would then seem to imply either a currency/banking crisis as interest on debts comes due, or at least severe constraints on national budgets.
But that seems to be happening anyway, Brexit or not. Perhaps it's better to suffer bad economic times by having more local control?
- 29,919
- Bratvegas
- GTP_Liquid
If Walloonia is able to veto a EU-wide deal pretty much on its own then Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland need to up their game.* It kind of makes the whole "England dominating the Union" look quite ridiculous when Walloonia is deciding something for 27 other countries.
*Especially Wales.
*Especially Wales.
- 29,353
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Belgian law clearly operates more like the EU than the UK - but that poses a serious problem for the EU when it comes to agreements that require all member states to approve them, which is the case for the trade deal with Canada. In effect, Belgian law (that requires all of its regions to agree on a proposal before it can be ratified) gives individual Belgian regions a veto on EU law - imagine if that were the case in every EU member state... it's bad enough that certain aspects of EU law require all member states to agree, but if it required every region of every member state to agree it was take decades for anything to happen - and in this case it has taken many years of (no doubt very expensive) negotiation to result in nothing.
I wonder if this will provoke the EU into insisting that member states cannot allow regions to hold a veto and require a qualified majority on big EU-related decisions like international trade deals...
I wonder if this will provoke the EU into insisting that member states cannot allow regions to hold a veto and require a qualified majority on big EU-related decisions like international trade deals...
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
It's an interesting question, Wallonia would like to be a "country" in its own right, it arguably already is in form if not in acceptance. The powers of the different parliaments/regions within the EU constituency is something that needs ratification - that'll surely be to the benefit of some and to the detriment of others.
- 2,745
- Italy
- Yellohead
- Clydeyellow
It's funny how the EU is working nowadays... A single Belgian region can veto a trade agreement, Hungary can take billions in European contributions and then willfully ignore its role in the Union, but a country like Italy can't raise their budget deficit face emergencies without being reprimanded by Bruxelles, while France can to essentially put in place the first building blocks of a police state and Germany isn't doing worse than both only because it uses the reputability of its banks to keep the cost of its debit low.
Maybe we should veto the neoliberal agenda out of the palaces of power and start working again on the idea of a united, federal Europe now that the Brits are finally packing up and leaving. Or else we may face a very cold winter with a very short blanket when the real Crisis To End all Crises comes. But who am I kidding, the European Union has become the biggest example in the world of "too-big-to-fail and therefore not-subject-to-scrutiny".
Maybe we should veto the neoliberal agenda out of the palaces of power and start working again on the idea of a united, federal Europe now that the Brits are finally packing up and leaving. Or else we may face a very cold winter with a very short blanket when the real Crisis To End all Crises comes. But who am I kidding, the European Union has become the biggest example in the world of "too-big-to-fail and therefore not-subject-to-scrutiny".
- 4,722
- United Kingdom
I've just caught up with this thread but an article I read in early September makes CETA sound like the kind of deal that we are starting to see proposed these days, similar to TTIP. Removing governments' ability to regulate by opening them up to lawsuits for potentially affecting companies' profits.
Many people may be happy for that to happen but many too, are not. CETA and TTIP both appeared to have been attempted to be pushed through quietly but enough people were paying attention to make details more well known.
I'm not surprised that there was a veto because the proposal was controversial.
Many people may be happy for that to happen but many too, are not. CETA and TTIP both appeared to have been attempted to be pushed through quietly but enough people were paying attention to make details more well known.
I'm not surprised that there was a veto because the proposal was controversial.
- 29,353
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
For those who enjoy watching the interaction of fecal matter with rotating arrangements of vanes or blades designed to create air flows, then this might be right up your street. Italy is holding a referendum on whether or not to give the Italian government more power(s) that once looked like a shoo-in, but now looks like it might end in a defeat for the Italian Prime Minister and bring about a swift collapse of the government, followed by a collapse of the banking system, followed by a Eurozone crisis on a scale far greater than that precipitated by the Greek debt crisis, posing a significant threat to the existence of the Eurozone itself.
Italy's debt and banking sector crisis poses a massive headache for the EU as it is, and arguably it is simply awaiting a trigger - and Sunday's referendum could well be it.
Italy's debt and banking sector crisis poses a massive headache for the EU as it is, and arguably it is simply awaiting a trigger - and Sunday's referendum could well be it.
- 29,353
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AFAIK, Italy's parliament is like the UK's with an upper and lower house and this referendum is designed to make it easier for laws to be passed by the lower house and take more power away from the upper house, with the backdrop being the Italian government's desire to restructure the beleaguered banking sector and to sort out the national debt situation. If the vote goes against the government, the PM has said he will resign and that could trigger a constitutional and banking crisis.
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- Bratvegas
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Domestic member state but EU-related corruption
Slovakia, which has enjoyed the 6-month rotating EU Presidency from July-December of this year, is embroiled in a defraud* scandal. The Foreign Ministry and its related department for presenting Slovakia as EU 'hosts' has been accused of overcharging for its cultural presentations and orders. Staff were also encouraged to use firms with ties to the governing Smer party.
An ex-employee called Zuzana Hlávková signed a blog for Transparency International which made the claim on 20th November. The Foreign Ministry denies these claims but Prime Minister Robert Fico, who has a very strained relationship with the media, went a bit further than that in a press conference.
With Fico it's always a "No true Slovak" logical fallacy. You cannot ever accuse anyone of corruption lest you be demonised as anti-Slovak and anti-democracy.
English: http://spectator.sme.sk/c/20391398/ex-employee-points-to-overpriced-presidency-related-orders.html
*I'm not sure what the correct term is for overcharging on government projects so you can take some for yourself. I think it's defraud because it's specifically to do with money.
Slovakia, which has enjoyed the 6-month rotating EU Presidency from July-December of this year, is embroiled in a defraud* scandal. The Foreign Ministry and its related department for presenting Slovakia as EU 'hosts' has been accused of overcharging for its cultural presentations and orders. Staff were also encouraged to use firms with ties to the governing Smer party.
An ex-employee called Zuzana Hlávková signed a blog for Transparency International which made the claim on 20th November. The Foreign Ministry denies these claims but Prime Minister Robert Fico, who has a very strained relationship with the media, went a bit further than that in a press conference.
With Fico it's always a "No true Slovak" logical fallacy. You cannot ever accuse anyone of corruption lest you be demonised as anti-Slovak and anti-democracy.
English: http://spectator.sme.sk/c/20391398/ex-employee-points-to-overpriced-presidency-related-orders.html
*I'm not sure what the correct term is for overcharging on government projects so you can take some for yourself. I think it's defraud because it's specifically to do with money.
- 4,573
- Moscow
- Rage_Racer_VOLK
- RageRacer48
- 1,320
- CZE
- novcze
Yeah, elections are coming so Merkel is doing what she can. New Year's Eve gatherings will be heavily guarded in German cities and she already said that immigration of this scale can't happen again. Hope that German voters will not get fooled.
- 31,701
- Buckwheat City
- Dennisch
That's just great.
- 11,639
- Intercourse, PA
- Carbonox
Geoblocking to be removed in the EU?
My first reaction was basically amazement that such a good decision has been made. Then again, this is all about removing legislation and not adding more of it.
My first reaction was basically amazement that such a good decision has been made. Then again, this is all about removing legislation and not adding more of it.
- 29,353
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
German finance minister Wolfgang Schäuble has ruled out debt relief for Greece while they remain in the Eurozone, insisting that Greece must implement reforms or 'exit the euro'.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-as-political-tensions-heighten-business-live
This comes soon after Mario Draghi (president of the European Central Bank) made comments recently relating to what conditions must be met for a nation to leave the Eurozone (albeit in reference to Italy), but this is in stark contrast to comments made a few years ago designed to reinforce the view that leaving the Eurozone was not an option for anybody - clearly it is now.
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-as-political-tensions-heighten-business-live
This comes soon after Mario Draghi (president of the European Central Bank) made comments recently relating to what conditions must be met for a nation to leave the Eurozone (albeit in reference to Italy), but this is in stark contrast to comments made a few years ago designed to reinforce the view that leaving the Eurozone was not an option for anybody - clearly it is now.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
How long does the EU really look like it will last?
Even when it does go though, its likely to be come around again in another form, at the very minimum in some sort of trade partnership, the benefits where huge in that department and if any country feels pain from that they will be looking for some relief.
Even when it does go though, its likely to be come around again in another form, at the very minimum in some sort of trade partnership, the benefits where huge in that department and if any country feels pain from that they will be looking for some relief.
- 29,353
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
I can't see how it can work in its present form - it either fully integrates or it will disintegrate, and right now I can't see 'full integration' happening...
This is an interesting article about the role that Germany has played in the current Eurozone debt crisis - in short, Germany is acting in its own self interest and steadfastly refusing to take steps that might help alleviate problems in other EU member states. It is hardly surprising, since German politicians are voted in by German people to do look after German interests first and not, say, Greece's interests... this being the case, it is hard to see how 'full integration' can ever happen while maintaining a political and financial system that enables individual member states to behave in the way that their voters expect them to.
