Explosion in Manchester UK

[Dave A]

I have seen the layout recently in the media coverage for this attack, it might be more challenging then some venues but certainly not impossible.

Only where the bomb went off was not inside the arena, it was in a public place between the arena, Victoria Station and an NCP car park. I know this arena well, I've been several times. The security for the concert would have no business checking or screening people in this area, only those actually going into the arena.

 

[Liquid]

One thing doesn't add up to me, some of the witnesses that were interviewed claimed they heard two explosions, a smaller one then a much bigger one. The statement from the Daesh said he planted bombs, as in plural, implying more than one was planted, which seems to back up some of the witnesses statements, but most of the coverage I have seen since describes only one bomb being detonated by a suicide bomber.

Seems like Daesh might be talking nonsense. It's not beyond them to take credit for an attack like this even if they had very little, if anything, to do with it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Seems like Daesh might be talking nonsense. It's not beyond them to take credit for an attack like this even if they had very little, if anything, to do with it.

Absolutely. We need to wait to see what links they may or may not have had with the dick and his "network".

One thing doesn't add up to me, some of the witnesses that were interviewed claimed they heard two explosions, a smaller one then a much bigger one.

It was a warm humid night. Those who know the area will know it's very flat with few properly-tall buildings. An intense frequency sound could well bounce back to some listeners and sound more direct than the initial explosion. That's a phenomenon that's quite common when witnesses describe the number of bomb blasts or gunshots that they hear in any given event.

Spoiler

 

[Dotini]

The NY Times (neoliberal establishment organ with CIA connections?) reports the bomber was a "mule" recently recruited by a Manchester-based organization to carry out the attack. Their reporting further links him to ISIS .

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/24/world/europe/manchester-bomber-salman-abedi.html?_r=0
the French interior minister, Gérard Collomb, said on Wednesday that Mr. Abedi had “most likely” gone to Syria and had “proven” links to the Islamic State.

 

[Dennisch]

had “most likely” gone to Syria

Hurrdurr, A lot of people travel to Syria. Hurrdurr.

 

[ryzno]

I suspect if the point of discussion was about gun control (you'd have to change very few words of this post) you wouldn't be so cavalier about what the obvious solution is.

I missed your post sorry. I do not get your gun control reference. Can you explain?

 

[MCFerocious]

Dear friends, so here we are again then.

Oh yes this attack was just very Islamic wasn't it? Pffffffffft.

I write to express my utter, utter DISGUST with this absolutely disgusting human being who felt the need to go and kill TOTALLY INNOCENT human beings. As a Muslim I follow my religion properly. I do my prayers, I fast in the month in Ramadan and I believe that there is only God, the most awesome ultimate creator and sustainer of the Universe. If a religion encourages the killing of innocent human beings then this is just so against the basic principle of natural justice that it cannot be a true religion. Islam strongly encourages loving thy neighbour, harming anyone even a little is a big sin. The verses in the Quran which morons cling onto to justify their disgusting actions were very context specific - in place of war self defence is permitted and encouraged obviously.

Never judge a religion by its followers my dear friends. The followers may be utter fools with no knowledge of the religion as is plainly the case with this appalling individual.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Following press leaks on the evening of the bombing by US intelligence agencies with whom the British had shared privileged information more details have appeared in the US press today. These include pictures taken by police of evidence at the scene. Police chiefs and politicians alike have voiced their concern, particularly as some of the leaked information could have been able to forewarn suspects of what the police knew.

V troubled by US leaking intelligence UK has given them in middle of live investigation where public safety at risk. What is going on?

Spoiler

This BBC link contains the photos in question, you may find them gruesome. British press are now carrying them given that they have been made available worldwide by the US press.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40038630

 

[DDastardly00]

Dear friends, so here we are again then.

Oh yes this attack was just very Islamic wasn't it? Pffffffffft.

I write to express my utter, utter DISGUST with this absolutely disgusting human being who felt the need to go and kill TOTALLY INNOCENT human beings. As a Muslim I follow my religion properly. I do my prayers, I fast in the month in Ramadan and I believe that there is only God, the most awesome ultimate creator and sustainer of the Universe. If a religion encourages the killing of innocent human beings then this is just so against the basic principle of natural justice that it cannot be a true religion. Islam strongly encourages loving thy neighbour, harming anyone even a little is a big sin. The verses in the Quran which morons cling onto to justify their disgusting actions were very context specific - in place of war self defence is permitted and encouraged obviously.

Never judge a religion by its followers my dear friends. The followers may be utter fools with no knowledge of the religion as is plainly the case with this appalling individual.

I know Muslims who would give me the shirt off their back if I needed it. Thank you for your post.

We should never seek to divide ourselves by race, economic status, religion or political views but rather we should vow to stand together in unity against all forms of terrorism and extremist views. The love and unity of the majority will conquer the hatred of the few.

 

[Dennisch]

I think the British government should be angry at those who leaked the pictures to the press, and not at the press for releasing them.
That is what those rats do.

The police is to blame here.


I missed a key element of the post!

 

[TenEightyOne]

The police is to blame here.

Did you read the article?

The police passed the photos to British national security agencies (or those agencies took the original pictures). That information was shared with Britain's most important intelligence partners - that includes the US. Despite the US already having leaked information to the US press on the eve of the bombing that would have alerted the dick's cronies to his identity being known, and despite the US having taken a phone bollocking for that act, this second batch of information was also leaked into the US press.

 

[Dennisch]

Did you read the article?

I, ehm, completely missed the link that was spoilered.

My bad.

 

[ryzno]

Ah, American leakers are now a problem!

 

[TenEightyOne]

Ah, American leakers are now a problem!

It seems so. First Israel and now the UK.

 

[ryzno]

It seems so. First Israel and now the UK.

So Trump leaked this info too?

 

[JKgo]

Ah, American leakers are now a problem!

....Of course it is. Leaking "in" public is a punishable offense, you know.

 

[TenEightyOne]

So Trump leaked this info too?

You could try reading the link.

 

[Dotini]

Get used to it, this is the new normal. The US face of BBC tells influential liberal host of America's #2 network, MSNBC.

https://pjmedia.com/video/bbc-host-europe-is-getting-used-to-attacks-like-this/

BBC Host: 'Europe Is Getting Used to Attacks Like This'

https://pjmedia.com/video/bbc-host-europe-is-getting-used-to-attacks-like-this/
BY PJ VIDEO MAY 23, 2017

BBC host Katty Kay told MSNBC's Mika Brzezinski that "Europe is getting used to attacks like this, Mika. We have to because we are never going to be able to totally wipe this out. As ISIS gets squeezed in Syria and Iraq, we're going to see more of these kinds of attacks taking place in Europe." Kay also described Manchester: "It has, of course, as do most British cities, a large immigrant and large Muslim population."

 

[BobK]

Following press leaks on the evening of the bombing by US intelligence agencies with whom the British had shared privileged information more details have appeared in the US press today. These include pictures taken by police of evidence at the scene. Police chiefs and politicians alike have voiced their concern, particularly as some of the leaked information could have been able to forewarn suspects of what the police knew.

Spoiler

This BBC link contains the photos in question, you may find them gruesome. British press are now carrying them given that they have been made available worldwide by the US press.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40038630

What information was leaked? All I saw in the cited article was a reference to some pictures published by the NY Times.

So Trump leaked this info too?

You can be sure that's how some will attempt to spin it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

What information was leaked? All I saw in the cited article was a reference to some pictures published by the NY Times.

Leak 1. Leak 2.

 

[Scaff]

What information was leaked? All I saw in the cited article was a reference to some pictures published by the NY Times.

Photos of evidence that has not been made public by the police and security services in the UK, but was supplied to the US government as part of intelligence sharing agreements.

Given that it then appeared in the US media would seem to indicate that it came from a US source.

Hence the reason why the Manchester Met has said it will not be sharing any more info with the US.

You can be sure that's how some will attempt to spin it.

Quite literally the only people I have seen making such a claim are pro-Trump!

Do you have anything to show that's not the case?

 

[Dotini]

@BobK
@Scaff

The leaks came through the intel community, presumably the CIA. Trump has appointed the new head of the CIA, Mike Pompeo, so maybe Trump can be blamed for the leaks, even though much of the intel community is at war with Trump.

In any case, the leaks are strongly in the interest of the US, as Trump is touring the world trying to recruit foot-dragging allies to show more gumption and more cash in the fight with ISIS.

 

[BobK]

Quite literally the only people I have seen making such a claim are pro-Trump!

It would be really great if you would get your facts straight before making an egregious claim like that.

Do you have anything to show that's not the case?

Well, me. I am by no means pro-Trump. Just because I'm not virulently anti-Trump does not mean I'm a Trump supporter.

 

[Scaff]

It would be really great if you would get your facts straight before making an egregious claim like that.


Well, me. I am by no means pro-Trump. Just because I'm not virulently anti-Trump does not mean I'm a Trump supporter.

How so?

You didn't say it.

However you do seem to agree with it, so who are these that will try and spin it that way?

 

[Dotini]

so who are these that will try and spin it that way?

Teresa May will hold Trump responsible.
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-...ut-at-us--leaks--over-manchester-inquiry.html

 

[Scaff]

@BobK
@Scaff

The leaks came through the intel community, presumably the CIA. Trump has appointed the new head of the CIA, Mike Pompeo, so maybe Trump can be blamed for the leaks, even though much of the intel community is at war with Trump.

In any case, the leaks are strongly in the interest of the US, as Trump is touring the world trying to recruit foot-dragging allies to show more gumption and more cash in the fight with ISIS.

How would a reduction in intelligence sharing be in anyone but terrorists interest?

Teresa May will hold Trump responsible.
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-...ut-at-us--leaks--over-manchester-inquiry.html

No she will discuss the issue with him, but unless you have her saying he's directly responsible you're making quite a leap.

It suggests that she may hold him responsible for solving the issues, but it doesn't come close to saying she holds him responsible for being the cause or source of the leak.

 

[Dotini]

How would a reduction in intelligence sharing be in anyone but terrorists interest?

Almost the entire UK is outraged about the leaks, or at least the authorities and establishment. They are outraged because the US leaked the name and identity of the bomber, as well as the fact he was not a lone wolf or Ukipper, but merely a mule who carried a bomb for a large, indigenous, organized network of radicals embedded in your society, still at work. This disrupts the narrative that would be preferred to comfort the afflicted and the worried within your society. So a reduction in intelligence sharing, at least as a temporary palliative or placebo, will soothe British anger, and yet have little effect on the ongoing efforts of terrorists. There is nothing much more that can be done about them anyway, under the present reality which has taken so long to accrue. It is an unhappy situation all around.

Trump wants more allies and money from the Euro and Middle Eastern victims of terrorism, as we are tired of leading the fight. What else is he to do but push it in your face?

 

[Scaff]

Almost the entire UK is outraged about the leaks, or at least the authorities and establishment. They are outraged because the US leaked the name and identity of the bomber, as well as the fact he was not a lone wolf or Ukipper, but merely a mule who carried a bomb for a large, indigenous, organized network of radicals embedded in your society, still at work. This disrupts the narrative that would be preferred to comfort the afflicted and the worried within your society. So a reduction in intelligence sharing, at least as a temporary palliative or placebo, will soothe British anger, and yet have little effect on the ongoing efforts of terrorists. There is nothing much more that can be done about them anyway, under the present reality which has taken so long to accrue. It is an unhappy situation all around.

So you don't see how sharing that they know the identity, that a cell is operating or that they know means and methods used would impact on catching the rest of that cell?

Seriously.

Its also has the issue that some people might get carried away with the narrative as well, and then going around making claims not supported by it such as describing the cell as large, when its actual size is unknown.

Trump wants more allies and money from the Euro and Middle Eastern victims of terrorism, as we are tired of leading the fight. What else is he to do but push it in your face?

Then he's going about it in a very odd way, alienating allies and reducing the level of intelligence sharing is not going to achieve anything of that sort.

 

[ryzno]

It seems so. First Israel and now the UK.

So Trump leaked this info too?

You could try reading the link.

Quite literally the only people I have seen making such a claim are pro-Trump!

The only reason I made that question was Tens' wording. Who allegedly leaked Israels info? It's very easy to get his one line misinterpreted.
So, excuse me for not reading the link in a spoiler... Or even clicking the spoiler...

 

[TenEightyOne]

They are outraged because the US leaked the name and identity of the bomber, ....this disrupts the narrative that would be preferred to comfort the afflicted and the worried within your society.

Bollocks. It's because it increases the risk to the lives of police women and men who are tasked with capturing a now-forewarned enemy. It's beyond a schoolboy error, it's just stupid.