F.I.T.T 2000 Shootout

[NEWDRIVER2]

Hey NEWDRIVER, first you tune faster then me, and now you're trying to take my crown as the double post king?

Okay, on a serious note, I will be posting my times tomorrow, with feeback I hope. Sorry for the delay. Great cars, great tuners, great shootout. Having alot of fun

Haha I'm a follower of Clueless garage boss and I'm trying to be like him in every thing
And you already the king of our garage 👍
Ok then lets wait for tomorrow .

The scoring is actually 2/3 lap time and 1/3 driver's choice. I did notice that some people scored all cars between 4 and 5 while most others did a range from 2 to 5.

I have noticed that driver's choice most often mirrors the order of lap times. Sometimes, it gives the tester a way to reward someone who developed a very good tune on a less than optimal car choice.

Points updated.

Is this score between 4 to 5 effecting the result . Sorry if I didn't understand the score well should I fix that .?!

Well unless average driver choice ranks are all within 0.2, then its weighted towards driver rank. It looks to me like the final results could be no different to how average driver scores rank.

Most of the cars is good and the deferent between them is the lap time . That's why I score them like that . I think 3 of the tester do the same what I did and the other do from 2 to 5 .

 

[Motor City Hami]

Is this score between 4 to 5 effecting the result . Sorry if I didn't understand the score well should I fix that .?!

Driver's choice is really up to the test driver. If you felt all tunes were really good, then the scores you and Praiano provided are appropriate.

I do think we should come up with a FITT standard for driver's choice points.

Either a ranking like this...
1 favorite = 5 points
2nd = 4 points
3rd = 3 points
4th = 2 points
5th = 1 points

Or provide an actual score like this...
- Score between 1.0 and 1.9 = This tune did not match my driving style in any way.
- Score between 2.0 and 2.9 = Likeable tune, but a bit average.
- Score between 3.0 and 3.9 = Very good tune but needs one or two adjustments to be elite.
- Score of between 4.0 and 4.9 = I would happily race this tune today with a few minor changes.
- Score of 5.0 = Perfect tune. I cannot think of a single adjustment.


Without a FITT standard, it leaves things open for test drivers to rank on different scales. Some will be much more generous with their scores and others will spread points across the full range.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Double post, but they are two very separate topics.

I tested three more cars at LaSarthe; Praiano, XDesperado and Theo777. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=7800930#post7800930

Will test the final three Saturday night.

 

[NEWDRIVER2]

Driver's choice is really up to the test driver. If you felt all tunes were really good, then the scores you and Praiano provided are appropriate.

I do think we should come up with a FITT standard for driver's choice points.

Either a ranking like this...
1 favorite = 5 points
2nd = 4 points
3rd = 3 points
4th = 2 points
5th = 1 points

Or provide an actual score like this...
- Score between 1.0 and 1.9 = This tune did not match my driving style in any way.
- Score between 2.0 and 2.9 = Likeable tune, but a bit average.
- Score between 3.0 and 3.9 = Very good tune but needs one or two adjustments to be elite.
- Score of between 4.0 and 4.9 = I would happily race this tune today with a few minor changes.
- Score of 5.0 = Perfect tune. I cannot think of a single adjustment.

Without a FITT standard, it leaves things open for test drivers to rank on different scales. Some will be much more generous with their scores and others will spread points across the full range.

I think the second option is the best for scoring the car . 👍 that's in my side .
As its gives a full rang of understanding the cars how she is in tester hands .

 

[macdog54]

I think the second scoring option posted by MCH would be a better way as well,for me there were seven cars to rate from favourite to least favourite, a score of 2 does not sugest that the car is crap, the Honda's you could drive all day without breaking a sweat, where the others needed a lot more concentration and throttle control , with option two the scores for me would have been 3.5 and upwards.

 

[XDesperado67]

On the occasions that I have tested for Shootouts I've tried to give the drivers choice points based on something similar to MCH second option although I've never really broke it down the way he has here. Think instituting a scale like this would be a good thing for F.I.T.T. events as it provides a framework for the testers to use other than straight lap times and leaves things open enough to account for the fun factor of the cars. I might tune a car that is the fastest in lap time but it could be totally boring to drive while another tuner had a slower car but it was a blast to drive. Giving a basic framework for scoring the drivers choice section and having it as a standard that we post in F.I.T.T. should help improve our events and encourage tuners to not only look for the fastests cars but the ones that can be most entertaining as well.👍👍

 

[Motor City Hami]

On the occasions that I have tested for Shootouts I've tried to give the drivers choice points based on something similar to MCH second option although I've never really broke it down the way he has here. Think instituting a scale like this would be a good thing for F.I.T.T. events as it provides a framework for the testers to use other than straight lap times and leaves things open enough to account for the fun factor of the cars. I might tune a car that is the fastest in lap time but it could be totally boring to drive while another tuner had a slower car but it was a blast to drive. Giving a basic framework for scoring the drivers choice section and having it as a standard that we post in F.I.T.T. should help improve our events and encourage tuners to not only look for the fastests cars but the ones that can be most entertaining as well.👍👍

I also like option two, but think we need to have more discussion about the verbage for the scale. Also, I think we should consider how much Driver's Choice should be of the total scoring. In this competition it is 1/3 of the total. Maybe we write a guideline and allow the host to decide? Driver's choice can be 1/3, 1/2 or 2/3 of the final scoring.

Also, should we move this discussion over to the FITT thread?

One more... if anyone wants to adjust their driver's choice for this competition, please update in your test post and let me know that you have made a change.

 

[praiano63]

Group B 460PP Grand Valley Testing
DS3, ABS 1, Manual, Grip Real, 5 laps each


Praiano63 Toyota Celica 2000GT-Four ’86 – 416.589 – 4 of 5 – 179 mph top speed
Overall, a very nice tune and will surely be among the fastest lap times. Since I had driven Theo’s entry first, and it was so good through the corners, I can’t help but to compare the other tunes to it. I just cannot be as aggressive with Praiano’s tune as I could with Theo’s. There is some mid-corner understeer present and most noticeable in the higher speed sweeping S curves. Maybe more front camber or more front negative toe or higher front LSD settings/lower rear or maybe a torque split adjustment?

Thanks for the review, 👍, i just did not spent more than 2 laps on Le Mans with this car, impossible for me to be "agressive with this kind of cars ,on this track, even more "no chicane".... I was almost sleeping during the test, thinking to something else during the straight, sometime i've forgot to brake or turn at the end........ Perhaps that's why the car is not so good there.
Thanks for your time and comments.👍

 

[krenkme]

Sorry about the slow times and if I don't have the feedback up soon, and you need to know about your car, feel free to PM me and I'll try and tell you about it 👍

DS3, ABS-1, old man

Times

tronrider345 - Le Mans - 4:23.652 GVS - 2:09.143
MrGrado - Le Mans - 4:23.156 GVS - 2:09.549
Motor City Hami - Le Mans4:22.532 GVS - 2:08.688
NEWDRIVER2 - Le Mans - 4:21.562 GVS - 2:10.231
ACSR421 - Le Mans - 4:22.097 GVS - 2:10.102
moparisgod - Le Mans - 4:37.783 GVS - 2:11.532
CyKosis1973 - Le Mans - 4:26.676 GVS - 2:10.622



Drivers Choice

tronrider345 - Le Mans-3 GVS- 3
MrGrado - Le Mans- 4 GVS- 3.5
Motor City Hami - Le Mans- 4.5 GVS- 4.5
NEWDRIVER2 - Le Mans- 4.5 GVS- 3
ACSR421 - Le Mans- 4.5 GVS- 3
moparisgod - Le Mans- 3GVS- 4
CyKosis1973 - Le Mans- 4 GVS-5


Comments

(coming soon...I hope)
tronrider345
MrGrado
Motor City Hami
NEWDRIVER2
ACSR421
moparisgod
CyKosis1973

 

[NEWDRIVER2]

I also like option two, but think we need to have more discussion about the verbage for the scale. Also, I think we should consider how much Driver's Choice should be of the total scoring. In this competition it is 1/3 of the total. Maybe we write a guideline and allow the host to decide? Driver's choice can be 1/3, 1/2 or 2/3 of the final scoring.

Also, should we move this discussion over to the FITT thread?

One more... if anyone wants to adjust their driver's choice for this competition, please update in your test post and let me know that you have made a change.

I made the changes in my post 👍
It's good to have also systems for DC to be follow by the drivers .

 

[CyKosis1973]

Also, should we move this discussion over to the FITT thread?

I think we leave this Shootout as Option 1, for now and move the converstation up to the FITT thread. I like Option 2 the most and this is how I normal go about my choices. I appreciate there is usually a relastionship between DC and the fastest time, if people are able to blitz the opposition, then they'll likely favour the car. I have, however, rewarded cars that I really enjoyed driving, but wasn't necessarily that fast in. Krenkme's road going Renault 5, if I remember rightly, was one such car.

On the subject of Krenkme, thanks for the laps and DC, I'm guessing you didn't find the old bucket too objectionable. Decent times too, I'm not sure it had much more to give 👍

{Cy}

 

[Theo777]

Theo777 Nissan Skyline HT 2000 Turbo RS ’83 – 417.840 – 5 of 5 – 173 mph top speed
Theo has made one of the smoothest tunes that I have ever driven. I could do anything I wanted with this car and it would deliver. Corner entry, mid-corner rotation and on-power to the exit are all fantastic. I even drove one lap intentionally trying to turn any tire red and I could not do it. I couldn’t wait to get off the track and crack open this tune to find Theo’s secret. And what did I find when I cracked open the bonnet? Meh. Nothing stands out as that one thing that put this tune over the top. Mad praise on the LSD settings as they look to be in order. Average amount of camber, arbs, toe and brake balance. Heavy springs and dampers for a car of this size. Nothing stands out to me. I would love to hear from Theo’s perspective as he went through the settings that landed on this wonderful tune. Nice work.

I can only add small suggestions for potential improvement. You might be able to get more out of 2nd gear. Try giving 2nd gear more torque and lengthen 3rd and 4th a bit. I would also be curious to see how this car would do with less ballast.

Oh, more good feedback! Thanks Hami! It sounds like I really need to scutinize 2nd and 3rd gears in addition to raising the camber settings.

As far as tuning goes... It was a case of one stubborn tuner's attempt to get this car to reduce understeer and improve braking. I was especially focused on tuning after testing(crashing) an early version of it online. The ballast improved rear traction for corner exits and also allowed for an extra 5-6mph in top speed at LaSarthe with the addition power. In early tuning, I used lower values for the spring rates and only 50kg or so ballast which had much better low/mid speed acceleration but would lose ground on every straight compared to the heavier tune. A lighter version of the car would be better for a tighter track like Autumn Ring. For this shootout it seems the Clarkson Solution was a good way to go. Powerrr!!!

 

[krenkme]

On the subject of Krenkme, thanks for the laps and DC, I'm guessing you didn't find the old bucket too objectionable. Decent times too, I'm not sure it had much more to give 👍

{Cy}

I have a feeling that you saw I was testing, and made this car for me . Sooo easy to drive, and ever so enjoyable. Racing cars on the edge and achieving feats that are amazing is all well and good, but your car was a joy to dive, and that is why I like it as my DC. Simple, easy, fast, and fun. Some cars I struggled making my laps, but with yours, I could do the 24hrs of La mans in.... I'd finish last, but still .

So yes I enjoyed your tune, as well as many of the others. Thus has been a fun shootout 👍. Thanks Sam

 

[NEWDRIVER2]

I have a feeling that you saw I was testing, and made this car for me . Sooo easy to drive, and ever so enjoyable. Racing cars on the edge and achieving feats that are amazing is all well and good, but your car was a joy to dive, and that is why I like it as my DC. Simple, easy, fast, and fun. Some cars I struggled making my laps, but with yours, I could do the 24hrs of La mans in.... I'd finish last, but still .

So yes I enjoyed your tune, as well as many of the others. Thus has been a fun shootout 👍. Thanks Sam

Your welcome Team mate Not yet finish the fun still round two waiting for the announce of MCM as SVX maybe he can't make it . Let see .
Thank you also Adam for the car it's very fun to drive 👍 and all others cars for sure .

 

[Motor City Hami]

November 17 :Round 1 testing times and drivers choice posted

Today is the testing deadline for round one. Three testers with tests to complete.

MCH (me) with three cars to test. Finished
Ronald - you need to test Krenkme's car
Subie_SVX - to test all cars for both groups.

Let me know when everyone is complete and we will call round one to a close.

 

[XDesperado67]

Thanks MCH for the test.👍👍
Fairly certain that praiano's edge in top speed was due to the extra HP his car has.
While I'm fairly certain my car had a slight edge in lower speed acceleration the extra HP is better for top speed where the added weight isn't as big an issue as aerodynamics of the car . I'd originally started with a near full weight car, then decided that the slight loss of top speed on the Mulsane could be offset by improved low end ac celeration and cornering gains. Of course didn't expect my gearbox to be giving everyone fits so...

 

[Motor City Hami]

Newdriver - Are we almost ready to move to round two? Ronald has one more car to complete and he PM'd me that he would get to it after work today. I haven't heard from Subie_SVX and whether he was testing yesterday and today.

For round two, you listed Trail Mountain. How many cars from each group will make round two (two or three) and what are we allowed to change?

 

[tronrider345]

Newdriver - Are we almost ready to move to round two? Ronald has one more car to complete and he PM'd me that he would get to it after work today. I haven't heard from Subie_SVX and whether he was testing yesterday and today.

For round two, you listed Trail Mountain. How many cars from each group will make round two (two or three) and what are we allowed to change?

How many cars:

1- Group A first and second fastest car .
2- Group B first and second fastest car .

And you can only change final gear.

 

[Motor City Hami]

How many cars:

1- Group A first and second fastest car .
2- Group B first and second fastest car .

And you can only change final gear.

This is Newdriver's full post about round two.

"The two winners from each group will make it to the final round this maybe it will change as how many cars in each group
(first place and second place plus 3rd place if number of cars become more )

So last round will have 2 or 3 cars in each group . if there is round 2 it will be like this

the first winner from Group A and first winner from Group B they will be the winners for this shootout as :
1- Group A first and second fastest car .
2- Group B first and second fastest car ."

And, maybe I overlooked it, but I cannot find where he says that we can only change final drive. This is why I am asking for clarification.

 

[tronrider345]

This is Newdriver's full post about round two.

"The two winners from each group will make it to the final round this maybe it will change as how many cars in each group
(first place and second place plus 3rd place if number of cars become more )

So last round will have 2 or 3 cars in each group . if there is round 2 it will be like this

the first winner from Group A and first winner from Group B they will be the winners for this shootout as :
1- Group A first and second fastest car .
2- Group B first and second fastest car ."

And, maybe I overlooked it, but I cannot find where he says that we can only change final drive. This is why I am asking for clarification.

Well you better wait for Newdriver then lol.
About the gear box :

"9- Only final gear will be allowed to be adjusted for each track. But not the gear ratio or the tune on the car ." , he didn't specified for which round so I'm guessing it's for all rounds..

 

[NEWDRIVER2]

@ MCM thank you for your help Sir 👍
2nd round it will be 3 cars from each group .
Only final gear allowed not the gear ratio .
3rd post in first page show that 6 cars to go 2nd round .
@Tron thank you also 👍
Lets go for the 2nd round when Ron PM you .

 

[XDesperado67]

@Newdriver why the second round if the only change allowed is the final gear? With the point system the way it is you could name the winner based on the current results. Giving the tuners who qualify for the final round a chance to make some adjustments to the tune based on the feedback from the first round, could potentially scramble the results of the final round a bit more than you'll likely see just from a final gear change.

Just my thoughts on the matter though.

 

[tronrider345]

@Newdriver why the second round if the only change allowed is the final gear? With the point system the way it is you could name the winner based on the current results. Giving the tuners who qualify for the final round a chance to make some adjustments to the tune based on the feedback from the first round, could potentially scramble the results of the final round a bit more than you'll likely see just from a final gear change.

Just my thoughts on the matter though.

I aprove this thought! 👍

 

[Ronald6]

+1 Despy

 

[Motor City Hami]

I also think you could allow unlimited changes to fit Trail Mountain. It would make test driving more fun.

 

[NEWDRIVER2]

You are write all of you done 👍 let's do it guys . Be sorry about that just I'm NEW .

ALL CHANGES ARE ALLOWED FOR THE SECOND ROUND GENTLE MEN'S .

 

[Ronald6]

Almost done testing. I didn't notice Krenkmes cars final gear was setup for La Sarth. I need to run GVS again with the proper final gear. About 23 minutes should do it.

***

OK, I'm done. Wow, did that change make a big difference in time. Even better throttle control!

 

[CyKosis1973]

I have a feeling that you saw I was testing, and made this car for me . Sooo easy to drive, and ever so enjoyable. Racing cars on the edge and achieving feats that are amazing is all well and good, but your car was a joy to dive, and that is why I like it as my DC. Simple, easy, fast, and fun. Some cars I struggled making my laps, but with yours, I could do the 24hrs of La mans in.... I'd finish last, but still .

So yes I enjoyed your tune, as well as many of the others. Thus has been a fun shootout 👍. Thanks Sam

Splendid, glad you enjoyed it that much. I knew I'd not keep abreast of the younger cars, but the final stages of tuning were done under competitive racing and I found it a robust car to drive. It can take a few knocks and hand a few out too. Thanks again for taking the time to run the old bucket 👍

{Cy}

 

[Motor City Hami]

Round one is complete. All scores have been updated in the Google docs linked below. Congratulations to the first round winners.

Group A
Motor City Hamilton – Honda S2000 Type V’03 – 14.778 points
NEWDRIVER2 – Toyota GT2000 – 13.902 points
MrGrado – Honda S2000 ’06 – 13.807
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Akr4MBOtjOcqdDdEdzFFWTJjX19ocHdEYWQzYjY1YWc#gid=0

Group B
Praiano63 – Toyota Celica 2000 GT-Four (ST165) – 14.375
Theo777 – Nissan Skyline HT 2000 RS-X Turbo C – 13.905
XDesperado67 - Toyota Celica 2000 GT-Four (ST165) – 13.578
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Akr4MBOtjOcqdE1LZlRPelJiell0RjJpaTJxVjRHcWc#gid=0


Round two will be driven on the Trail Mountain Circuit. The twisty rolling hills will provide an elevation change that wasn’t seen in the round one tracks. Tuners are allowed to make changes to their tunes based upon the tester feedback from round one. Tuners must retain the original PP from round one along with these rules.

1- All cars has over 320 km/200 miles on it
2- Fresh oil before it is placed on share (oil change, and/or overhaul).
3- Everything is allowed to upgrade the cars to 450/460 pp.
4- Power limitter allowed only to 5%.
5- Any amount of ballast is allowed.
6- Paint and Rims is allowed.
7- Aero kit not allowed.
8- Car will be tuned for offline mode.
9- Sport Soft tires

Deadlines – Newdriver, I am recommending to move things back one day due to the Thanksgiving Holiday in the United States.

Updated tunes due - Wednesday 11/21
Round two testing due – Sunday 11/24

Newdriver, you may also want to link to this post or copy this to the first page of the thread. I will make a new scoring sheet for round two. Also, let me know if you agree with the new deadlines. If not, I can make an edit to the above.

 

[NEWDRIVER2]

That's cool mate keep it like that 👍 I will link it to here in second post in front page .

CONGRATS FOR THE WINNER OF ROUND ONE 👍 👍

Good luck next time for the tuners who didn't make it to the second round 👍 👍

Thank you testers for your time testing our cars and those rates and good laps time

Edit :

Tuner :

All the new tune for the 2nd round should be post to the same post of the car for round one as a second tune option for Trail Mountain .
So we can keep the two tunes together both in one post .

thank you

ND