Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

[Spagetti69]

What wheel settings you using for shift Seth?

 

[ceth]

GT3RS:
FFB 33%
Rotation, mainly 360

Game:
FFB 60%
Steering Sensivity 50 (considered linear but still unconfirmed by devs)
Speed sensitive steering 0%
Wheels max angle (car setup): 30°

 

[Spagetti69]

GT3RS:
FFB 33%
Rotation, mainly 360

Game:
FFB 60%
Steering Sensivity 50 (considered linear but still unconfirmed by devs)
Speed sensitive steering 0%
Wheels max angle (car setup): 30°

FFB 33% ? Hmm I'm using a GT2 and the increments are in stages of ten.

Anyhow.

My wheels settings for XBox are.

Degrees rotation 900.
FF 80
Shock 30
Drift 2 (makes the steering lighter)
Abs 85
Spring 2.

All others at 0

Try adding drift to ease your steering woes.

 

[Fanatec...]

@left888
Not sure about your case as I dont have any details but you always had the chance to cancel the order and get an immediate refund. So if we really told you that we would ship within one week and we did not do it, why did you not complain right away and ask your money back instead of waiting for several months?

@ceth
The SDK is really overdue but our development ressources are limited so we make our preferences depending on potential sales. And to be honest we could not refuse to make the FM wheel. The good news is that the SDK is almost ready now and we have one developer working fulltime on it. And we also have a fix for the Shift 2 problems in the works.

 

[331 LX]

FFB 33% ? Hmm I'm using a GT2 and the increments are in stages of ten.

Anyhow.

My wheels settings for XBox are.

Degrees rotation 900.
FF 80
Shock 30
Drift 2 (makes the steering lighter)
Abs 85
Spring 2.

All others at 0

Try adding drift to ease your steering woes.

Gonna save these for when my Wheel Arrives.

Fanatec- Can you look at my last few posts in the thread and help me out if at all possible?

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5473113#post5473113

 

[ceth]

@ceth
The SDK is really overdue but our development ressources are limited so we make our preferences depending on potential sales. And to be honest we could not refuse to make the FM wheel. The good news is that the SDK is almost ready now and we have one developer working fulltime on it. And we also have a fix for the Shift 2 problems in the works.

Really good things

Can you tell us if the SDK will be made available to the end users or only game developpers ? (fingers crossed )

Also very happy you are working on fixing Shift2 problems, that's awesome ! Thank you !
edit: I just realised we are on a console oriented forum. So I guess your fix is for console only and not PC ?

And... you still don't want to tell us if the new Elite base is meant to be the clubsport base (I know, it isn't named clubsport but well, it looks like clubsport quality level )


@Spagetti69: GT3RSv1 don't have those extra settings (spring, abs etc.). Also FFB increments are off 33% 66% and 100%

About drift mode, as already said above I don't like it due to overshoot (= the motors make you steer further than you really want. Of course the wheel becomes very light with this helper, but the precision suffers it too much. And if for any reason your car starts swaying, then you enter hell nightmare as the ffb motor will amplify it)

 

[sandboxgod]

This is a good decision.

I cannot comment on sandboxgod well argumented post as I haven't had the chance to try the T500RS (but I would never buy it because of the fixed shifting paddles 👎 and because there is no way to buy the wheel only 👎 or at least use their pedal separatly so I could sell them as I keep my CSP), but I will go in his direction when talking about Fanatec flaws (= area of improvements, as a manufacturer / reseller):

Thomas, you just told you will take orders only if products are on the way from China in the futur, and as said above I think this is good.

You also tell wheels that were to be shipped in May have been shipped in June and that it is not that much a delay, and with this I can agree.

Now what about the SDK that we are waiting for for years now ? Do you think this is acceptable ? To me this is not serious at all from a company. You used those features (CSP vibration, wheels' display) to advertise your products (on your webshop descriptions, on your blog, and in your videos) and those features are still restricted to 1 or 2 games after years now.

That's the main thing I will blame you. Starting too many projects (new products) before what was promised before is finished. By the time you first talked about the CSP vivration, the LCD display, and the according SDK to make them work, you made the gt3rsv2 (v1 too ? idk if turbo S was the 1st or not), the CSP color kit, the shifter paddles kit, the GT2 wheel with xbox compatibilty, and now another huge products line extension with nothing less than 2 new wheels, one with a complete new base, an improved shifter, a clubsport shifter, a clubsport handbrake, a new set of pedals and... still no SDK to make the old gt3rs / turbo S display datas from games and the CSP vibrates on wheels locks... This isn't serious at all if you ask me. I will even say this is disrepectful as it was used to advertise your products, to help you SELLING them.

Beside this, another improvement I would like at Fanatec is a closer work with game developpers. I will speak about shift2, for example, with which Fanatec wheels offer a poor FFB. This is also what makes (or breaks ! ) the renown of your products Thomas. How good the support of your wheels is in various games. I know game developpers have their hands not free because that's the publishers who pay and decide. And I know people using wheels are the minority, thus getting less love than gamepads when games are developped. But I whish you push more about the support of your wheels in the futur. The most you can. Trying to get alpha/beta versions, testing them internally, and pointing developpers the bugs and improvements areas concerning the support of your products.

And last point, I would say communicating. You come on forums to talk with the community, and have also 911wheels to talk with us and make announcements and that's all good. But sometimes, I don't understand your communication. The post you made to ask us our wishes for a clubsport wheel for example. And now we see this new Elite wheel base that really sounds like it is the clubsport base So what's going on ? Is this the clubsport base or you plan something even better for the clubsport wheel you asked us about our whishes ?

Don't take it bad. I like your products, I like the way you try to get the best price / quality ratio by selling directly to customers, I never suffered the lack of customer service (yet), even if my CSP was received broken and I ended repairing it myself, and I like you ask your customers about their wishes for the products being developped, but I feel the need to point you out the main flaws I see at Fanatec, hoping it will help to improve our satisfaction as customers / players, resulting in an improvement of Fanatec's image. The above flaws I raise are from me but not only, that's also what I frenquently read on the french forums (and english ones too).

I enjoyed reading your post. I just want to briefly comment on one or two things:

* The T500Rs pedals can be used separately. This guy at iRacing / ISR forums figured out a way to get it to work using a Bodnar box, etc. So what iRacing fans do is get the T500rs + CSPs then sale their T500rs pedals it looks like. but I agree, unlike Fanatec's CSP out-of-the-box it's not meant to be used apart. This is why I wrote my post earlier Fanatec products have major advantages over T500rs on paper. I should clarify though. Most of these hardcore sim fans already had a gt3rsv2 + CSP. they seem to be selling their GT3RS wheels and keeping their pedals for use with the T500rs. Some claim though they just stiff brake mod their t500rs pedals and that gets them by (havent tried yet myself). I still suspect CST or CSPs would be what most would prefer for more realism

* For a strong, fast wheel like the T500rs I would think you'd want the fixed paddles. The T500rs has a 16+ pic on it already. If you make those paddles attached with all this wheel torque man I see a lot of fingers getting seriously injured by those whirling steel blades. I'd be interested in seeing someone mod their T500rs to make them attached (which can be done) and stick their fingers in there to prove me its safe.

So I wonder how that CSR Elite will work with attached paddles. If it's fast like the T500rs then I want to see what happens to people's fingers. It's bound to happen. Thrustmaster insured they would not get sued for missing limbs by the fixed paddles. But I wish they would explain why.

I love my fixed paddles though. Notice not much interest by seasoned t500rs owners to go attached paddles here or at iRacing forums

I also agree about that CSP kit. Somehow both iRacing and rFactor have the ability to vibrate the pedals if plugged in via USB I've read but he still hasn't made that kit public

Interesting, so its smooth nice. Your saying then the 120W reported at CES is dual 60W motors though. If the T500RS was 65W then your Elite is almost double T500RS?

Huhhh huhhh, I like it....

I am still a little skeptical ISR needs to come out with the E3 Special. Cause in all the CSR Elite vids so far I see no FFB happening. Like ziltch. Everyone just freely move their wheel around like it's turned off. Try doing that in GT5 with the T500rs in the x1 prototype with FFB at 1. You should still have a fight on your hands

So either FM4 FFB code is unfinished which worries me a little at this late juncture or the Elite's FFB motors are not fully functional. Fanatec put some sort of gag order on the press? Engadget not talking bout the FFB and ISR hasn;t even mentioned it at all (I refer to Darrin's teasing information about the FREX comparisons)

common sense tells me it should be god-like strong but then why are the paddles attached??? No fear of missing limbs? hehe

 

[ceth]

Not to mention the iRacing plugin was made by a player who got his hands on the SDK (to beta test it by the meantime).

Anyway it's a good news if it is close to be released. I just hope the end users will be able to use it as this would be the best way to have plenty of plugins. If it was for games developpers only, then we would still depend on the good will of publishers to pay development for those features, and I am sure they wouldn't pay. We already have hard time to get proper FFB (and even proper settings options in the worst case).

Nice too hear the T500RS pedals can be used separately. The problem is the Bodnar box cost lowering the price you can hope getting from selling the pedals. I'm sure Thrustmasters would sell more wheels only by making those pedals USB complient out of the box.

About the injuries issue with paddles attached to the wheel rim on a wheel that has a strong FFB, I never thought about that (and it's even the 1st time I see someone pointing to this). I admit this could be a potential issue. Now all depends how the paddles are. If it is plates that are away from the wheel rim then yes, possible injuries is a valid concern. But if it is like on the GT3RS for example, with plastic spacers getting into the wheel rim (to push the contactors) and small metal plates mounted on it, I guess it would be less likely to cause injuries.

Now even if I never tested fixed paddles, just looking at videos makes me thinking to myself I wouldn't like it at all. Also I am more after a precise FFB than a strong FFB. So there wouldn't be any injury risk for me with paddles attached to the wheel rim.

Btw, that's a question I have asked sometimes to TR500RS users an never got the answer: are the TR500RS FFB effects more precise (compared to its fanatec competitors) even when the FFB is set to be light ? As said in the previous post about shift2, I set my FFB at 33% only, and even often lower it in the game settings too. So I wonder if with such a light FFB setting the precision of the T500RS FFB effects would still remain notably superior to the competitors wheels effects (?)

 

[Fanatec...]

We will release the SDK to the public and I hope that the community will make good use of it.

About CSR E at E3: We actually had an issue with the temp sensor sending wrongvalues so the FF was reduced to a very low level. This is why we took off all CSR E on the second and third day of the show. But SRT have a prototype so they now what it feels.

 

[ceth]

Thanks for the answer Thomas. Be sure we will make good use of it !
Looking after the SRT preview now (for both the E base and the CSS !)

 

[Sele1981]

Hi Thomas,

I ordered the GT2 on friday. Just only want to know, do you have the wheel on stock or are there waiting times? On your website there is nothing about waiting time, so I ordered it.

Thanks.

 

[sandboxgod]

We will release the SDK to the public and I hope that the community will make good use of it.

About CSR E at E3: We actually had an issue with the temp sensor sending wrongvalues so the FF was reduced to a very low level. This is why we took off all CSR E on the second and third day of the show. But SRT have a prototype so they now what it feels.

Thanks for clarifying that issue then that puts that matter to rest.

@left888, I was forced to cancel my gt2 order back in April or something as well. In fanatec's defense I was expecting it in May like the site said. So worse case I actually expected it around late May / early June. But I just couldnt bare the wait since I lacked a wheel. I think you know my story already right heh. But my point is I got my money back in like asap as soon as I sent the message using their form onsite. You should PM Fanatec your order # and workout the GT2 arrival details cause seems like every is getting their wheels.

@Ceth, like many t500rs users I turn my FFB up a bit (like in shift2 I run at 75%). If you refer to subtle FFB effects not showing up if I understand your query then I personally would lack the expertise to go into detail. I personally like medium range FFB (GT5 at 8, iRacing around up to 25 or so now, rFactor + realFeel cranked up high, etc). I have heard belt driven wheels don't handle subtle effects as well as it should from others. I think this is what the FREX wheels, etc did better than T500rs (just from opinions I've seen). I suspect the new CSR Elite wheel is more along the lines you are after (attached paddles, component architecture, handles subtle FFB with greater precision). that's just my guess of course. This is a common topic on iRacing boards only because they have access to top tier wheels to compare (ECCI, FREX) and even some prefer lower tier (DFGT) claiming it handles subtle ffb better. But I cannot verify their claims

 

[sandboxgod]

Latest info from virtual, go there to see their new pics

Source: http://www.virtualr.net/fanatec-forza-motorsport-csr-wheels-e3-hands-on/

Last week, Fanatec unveiled their brand new Forza Motorsport CSR & CSR Elite Wheels. As usual, the SRT guys were on site to give the prototypes a try and Darin Gangi is sharing his initial impressions of the wheels below.

By: Darin Gangi
As usual, Thomas Jackermeier the CEO of Fanatec had some big surprises in store for us this year at E3. I had actually heard about the CSR Elite wheel months ago as Thomas and I talk frequently. Not only had I heard about this wheel, I tried a prototype of it last year while he was here for E3 2010. He brought a version of it for us to evaluate and test for him. (I hope I don’t get in trouble for saying that)

The wheel is not going to come cheap. We tried to squeeze a price out of Thomas, but he wouldn’t give an exact figure. If I had to put a price tag on it, I would say at least $500 for the wheel by itself without pedals. There was a mention of $700 on the show floor, but that was not confirmed and may have included pedals and a shifter.
The build quality is amazing and so is how it looks esthetically. The main shaft mechanism is very similar to what you would find in a Frex wheel and it’s referred to as a worm drive. The biggest difference between this CSR Elite and the Frex wheel is the size.. Fanatec is doing it in half the size with the same amount or maybe more precision.
It’s branded in Forza motorsport colors and is Xbox 360, PC and PS3 compatible. It has a joystick and all the buttons you would find on an Xbox controller. The wheel is approximately 13’ in diameter with wheel that’s made of a hard plastic with rubber grips at the points that you would normally handle a wheel.

I really don’t have enough time with the wheel to give a proper evaluation of it.. I can say this.. It is one of the smoothest steering mechanisms in all of sim racing. The Force Feedback is very strong while being precise. The location of the paddle shifters were placed in close proximity to your hand for positive shifts and are similar in size to what you might find on a G27. One of my complaints with the current Fanatec line of wheels is the paddle shifter or button,. This is no longer the case. This wheel and the standard CSR have a much better paddle shifting system.

We will have more on this wheel and the rest of the line up in our E3 Fanatec special report that will be out by the end of this week. It will include an interview with some tech guy at Fanatec named “Mr T”. He was quiet a character. Jessica ran into him at the Codemasters booth while we were checking out F1 2011. Besides the interview, our crew captured some never before seen footage of something that will shock many sim racers. We also got to see the first images of the Clubsport Shifter that we will share with everyone as well.

I’ve included some images from our time with the CSR Elite at E3. Some are 1920 x 1080 and the others aren’t as large unfortunately because I captured them from footage we have of the wheel. We’ll have more on this wheel, the CSR, Clubsport Handbrake and Shifter as well as a special surprise that you’ll have to watch our Fanatec E3 special

I must have too much free time on my hands. Last night I thought about Darrin's initial impressions / thoughts on the CSR Elite and recalled something odd- he already tried the CSR Elite prototype a year ago which matches up with what Thomas was saying this wheel was in the works for a long time 👍

Its little details like that I think Fanatec should stress when they launch a marketing campaign (extensive R&D). A lot of people feel like this wheel came from nowhere since it was worked on in secret. Additionally, I still think Fanatec needs a stronger presence at iRacing forums if possible. Granted we all know PC sims get way less attention and money than console games but a direct presence there seems needed in their Fanatec support thread

 

[left888]

If I just got 1 straight answer from Fanatec it wouldn't be so bad. Instead they gave me a host of different excuses and then they down right lied. I've requested a refund last week but have yet to hear from them.

I was forced to cancel my gt2 order back in April or something as well.

 

[ceth]

Thanks for the answer sandboxgod. I did not refer to subtle effects especially, but effects in general. How they kick in / kick out, the precision of the effects (quality), how they scale.

About specific effects (that I don't know if you would consider them being part of what you call subtle effects or not) I could talk about grip loss/recovering. Also kerbs vibrations.

And there is one specifically I never felt realistic in any game I have played: engine vibrations.
This one is always a terrible huge vibration like if you were driving a tractor or lawnmower

I really think this one would deserve a dedicated system to get proper high frequencies vibrations like a real car makes you feel. I already have thought about a system similar to the ones making phones vibrating, but with several weights rotating at various changing speeds to try to replicate what we feel at various RPM stage, with those high and very subtle frequencies mixing up with each others, sometimes the whole vibration even disappearing as the sub-frequencies counteract each others.

That's the most subtle effect I could think about and that I have never felt even barely right yet (maybe for a clubsport wheel ? )

 

[Mr Latte]

Ceth engine vibrations can easily be achieved in a cockpit.

Particulary so if connecting a tactile device to a "CENTER" channel (as this handles most engine audio) from surround sound. The drawback is that as an engine tone reaches higher frequencies it will lessen in strength of tactile. Id recommend the Clarke TST209 for this role or an Aura Pro.

You could connect an equaliser between the amplifer and the tactile and you have a high level of control now over how the vibration feels. Of course installation/positioning/volume/source and materials used all have an effect to how it will feel in general.

Parts express also do mini tactile devices if your a bit of a hobbyist.

Many guys on the forums are getting into tactile.

 

[left888]

I am not sure why I even bother trying to get a honest answer from Fanatec, they have selective hearing. As long as they have your money their stories and lies will continue.

When I ordered my product your website indicated the product was in stock and delivery would be 1 to 2 weeks. I am still waiting, in fact I have requested a refund plus interest.

... but by the time you ordered the product we already told you that we will ship the wheel in May. This was clearly mentioned in the product description.

 

[left888]

Good luck, I've been waiting nearly 6 months, when I ordered they said the products were in stock and will be delivered in 1-2 weeks. I still have not received my order.

Hi Thomas,

I ordered the GT2 on friday. Just only want to know, do you have the wheel on stock or are there waiting times? On your website there is nothing about waiting time, so I ordered it.

Thanks.

 

[Pdreams]

Just wanted to bring this thread nearer to its title...

"Where is the CS shifter?"

Still nothing from ISR or any other website.

Is it because no one drives stick anymore?

 

[Crispy]

Hmm, I say we should re-name the Thread Title to something that more supports the discussion going on. Any suggestions?

 

[Raudi]

@left888
Not sure about your case as I dont have any details but you always had the chance to cancel the order and get an immediate refund. So if we really told you that we would ship within one week and we did not do it, why did you not complain right away and ask your money back instead of waiting for several months?

@ceth
The SDK is really overdue but our development ressources are limited so we make our preferences depending on potential sales. And to be honest we could not refuse to make the FM wheel. The good news is that the SDK is almost ready now and we have one developer working fulltime on it. And we also have a fix for the Shift 2 problems in the works.

Thomas - can you elaborate on what the specific fixes are for Shift 2 that you have in the works and any ETA?

I have PC and XBOX 360 versions of Shift 2 and the XBOX version is the only one giving me issues: My major problem is that my Turbo S wheel constantly loses center spring FFB - almost 100% of the time after you reset the car from a crash, between races etc. In single player you can get it back some times by changing settings or forcing a controller reset - but you can't fix it at all in the middle of an online multiplayer race! (deal breaker for me)

Note: The FFB issue got 100X worse on XBOX after SMS / EA released the last patch (so please make sure your dev/testers go on xbox live so the game is updated with the patches when testing)

Thanks for any info you can share with us - definitely looking forward to CS shifter and CSR Elite wheel for FM4!

 

[left888]

I did complain right away, that's when all the stories from Fanatec started. The first time I complained fanatec blamed the Chinese, then I was promised early May from fanatec, then late May, then early June I was promised by fanatec. Now we are approaching the end of June, still no product.

But I am not alone, fanatec makes a habit of not telling the truth, just look online, I have found hundreds of people that get tired of all the BS from fanatec.

So as you say, I always have a chance to cancel and get a refund. I have done just that, but behold, no reply from fanatec.

BTW, I do apologize for not staying on topic here. I am rather frustrated of getting the run around from fanatec and I have been posting in threads where fanatec has been posting in the hopes of getting some answers.

@left888
Not sure about your case as I dont have any details but you always had the chance to cancel the order and get an immediate refund. So if we really told you that we would ship within one week and we did not do it, why did you not complain right away and ask your money back instead of waiting for several months?

 

[Fanatec...]

@left888
Instead of complaining several times about the same thing and spamming this thread it would be a good idea to send me a PM with your full contact and order details so I can follow up.

 

[Mr Latte]

While I have not been without my own issues relating to Fanatec dispatch/service and vented my own frustration in the past.

I don't think anyone can criticise a CEO from a company putting so much effort into public forums. While some processes take time they do endeavour to sort any customer issues and I've not once read of someone wanting a refund and not getting it when they were entitled to one.

I totally agree the delays are not a nice experience but being an early adopter of having first batch on several products I'm totally aware of peoples anger/annoyance.

At the same time when delays are unavoidable people have always been notified in forums like this and made aware of the situation. I get a feeling some on the forums are thinking they want to cancel their current orders not received to then get refunded and order one of the new products.

I do know one thing, these forums would very much miss Thomas/Fanatec if he wasn't around.

 

[ceth]

 

[Spagetti69]

Thomas your bonkers.

Nice touch on the shades when talking to Jessica though.

Edit nice wig too.

 

[KashunatoR]

i now think that that csr elite will be better than t500rs. i wonder if any of those pedals are better than the current csp pedals. this will be some combo. i want to know more about this products since it either this or the t500rs package

 

[left888]

I have sent an email to fanatec last week, still waiting ...

@left888
Instead of complaining several times about the same thing and spamming this thread it would be a good idea to send me a PM with your full contact and order details so I can follow up.

 

[fatkrakr]

Im liking these wheels alot but thats alot of money for a company with there track record. Ill be watching them and hopefully they do get customer support workrd out. Should be needing a new wheel by the end of the year.

 

[AGP5000]

@left, That is the CEO of Fanatec. So, you can trust him. Sorry to broadcast that Thomas, but I have offered my help too, to be told to shoo off when I can actually help out.