Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

[Wardez]

Yeah that kind of goes without saying, no one's assuming it's a load cell that works off of a hydraulic mechanism, the hydraulic is all for feel.

 

[Raitziger]

Fanatec's in a league of their own

Correction, the Japanese Modder is League of his own.

 

[Mr Latte]

Correction, the Japanese Modder is League of his own.

I think we are entering a new phase in the market.
For instance Mr Speares (sorry to mention again) sells a 12bit controller with gain control load cell for under $50. So how long will it be before someone rather clever comes up with a new pedal design incorporating lets shall we say "real" motorsport type components not parts from RC cars?

Perhaps I'm wrong but V2 while looking good and great value (will likey still buy one myself) could have potentially some serious competition with a more "hardcore" competitor within the year. Their is good business potential I believe for such a product and if Fanatec don't accommodate it I'm willing to wager someone will.

That's what annoys me too, Fanatec could easily of adopted 12bit resolution for the V2 and maybe that is an oversight? It makes me also worry just how good the upcoming and long awaited shifter will be.

The V2 kinda looks like a report card that says "Could Do Better" but let's see how well it is received by the community.

 

[LogiForce]

I think we are entering a new phase in the market.
For instance Mr Speares (sorry to mention again) sells a 12bit controller with gain control load cell for under $50. So how long will it be before someone rather clever comes up with a new pedal design incorporating lets shall we say "real" motorsport type components not parts from RC cars?

Perhaps I'm wrong but V2 while looking good and great value (will likey still buy one myself) could have potentially some serious competition with a more "hardcore" competitor within the year. Their is good business potential I believe for such a product and if Fanatec don't accommodate it I'm willing to wager someone will.

That's what annoys me too, Fanatec could easily of adopted 12bit resolution for the V2 and maybe that is an oversight? It makes me also worry just how good the upcoming and long awaited shifter will be.

The V2 kinda looks like a report card that says "Could Do Better" but let's see how well it is received by the community.

In contrast the same could be said for the new iPad. So not every product update has to be a complete redesign.

What I personally miss more currently is the gear grinding feel in a shifter and feeling then engine and gearbox revving through the lever. I find this to be more of a missing thing in the whole simulation aspect of sim racing then the load cell vs hydraulic debate. Personally shifting on sound alone makes me respond less quickly on a missed shift to be honest, thus losing valuable time. Of course I know most Americans who drive (semi-)automatics don't give a damn but as a European who loves a manual gearbox I do.

 

[superbike81]

Mr Latte: there are already hydraulic pedals that use real race car parts on the market. Derek Speare should be releasing his own pedals very shortly as well. But you can expect double the price of these CSP V2‘s

 

[amar212]

But you can expect double the price of these CSP V2‘s

And they will not work with the consoles, which is pretty important *thingie* to reconsider.

Same as majority of such *hard core PC* gear which is suited for and functional only on PC.

Which should be added into any discussion when Frex, ECCI or similar manufacturers are mentioned IMO

 

[Mahnegold]

And they will not work with the consoles, which is pretty important *thingie* to reconsider.

Same as majority of such *hard core PC* gear which is suited for and functional only on PC.

Which should be added into any discussion when Frex, ECCI or similar manufacturers are mentioned IMO

I shouldn't write that on a GranTurismo forum because it's a console game, but the very high end hardcore equipment does not need to be compatible to consoles. Because you will not find proper games for that hardware. These hardcore simulations are exclusive to PC's.

But that's only my personal opinion.

 

[Richvw]

That's the guy who Fanatec was talking with to get ideas for the CSP V2's. He's also done a clutch mod, which we will get in the V2 as well as the shock on the brake pedal.

Exactly, that's why I said "Could this be CSP V3 in the making ?"

I'll translate the info from his blog to English.

Thanks, makes so much more sense than Google translate 👍

 

[K_Soze]

I shouldn't write that on a GranTurismo forum because it's a console game, but the very high end hardcore equipment does not need to be compatible to consoles. Because you will not find proper games for that hardware. These hardcore simulations are exclusive to PC's.

But that's only my personal opinion.

I am only a console "sim" racer because I do not find that the PC sims are what I am looking for. I love GT5 or FM4 because it is really fun to try and choose in a huge cars list. I do not / can not wait for only online races and am not at all interested in Nascar/Indycar vehicles (I do not say these categories are better or worst than european races, I am french and love drive streets legal german or italian supercars for exemple).

I will love a GT7 or FM6 with laser scanned tracks and a more realistic physic engine (but FM4 use some Pirelli data, does iRacing got such a tyre model ??? ).

And I am looking for the more realistic experience so I am waiting for the most versatile high end pedals

And as a video game programmer, I am quite sure than Turn10 or PD physics programmer can do a lot with the 360 and the ps3.

This is why I choose an Elite instead of a ClubSport Wheel : the console "sims" get bigger developpement budget than PC ones because they are Sony and Microsoft best sellers...

 

[Mr Latte]

And they will not work with the consoles, which is pretty important *thingie* to reconsider.

Same as majority of such *hard core PC* gear which is suited for and functional only on PC.

Which should be added into any discussion when Frex, ECCI or similar manufacturers are mentioned IMO

Personally I agree with your comment and that the console compatibility is important. Their is no doubt going to be lots of V2 sold. Fanatec cover the low and mid range price points well with the option to buy pedals seperatly.

However how many console only players/owners do you see buying a CSW?
It is entering the "big boy" terrority of the fairly serious or dedicated players.
I would however estimate that the vast majority of CSW buyers already have other wheels or pedals. Are the V2 in their eyes a big enough upgrade if they already own the CSP? What if a 3rd party mod appears for current owners, some think this is likely.

With the CSW product really I think the V2 falls a bit short as a match for the CSW customers desire. Their seems currently nothing in the market that exceeds the CSP yet below the high end models like CST, ECCI etc.

People that can afford a 700 wheel, plus additional rims, some costing more than the V2 pedals should IMHO have no issues wanting and buying a set of pedals in the 400-500 range and I think Fanatec are bonkers not to cater for this price point.

 

[Aiobhill]

And as a video game programmer, I am quite sure than Turn10 or PD physics programmer can do a lot with the 360 and the ps3.

This is surprising me, as I always thought that rather hardware specs than customer demographics were limiting console racers.

I was actually hoping next generation consoles racing titles would bring the realism to levels at least cloose if not identical to what we see in rfactor2 and pcars (never played iracing so cant comment on that).

 

[lemansfanatic]

Of course I know most Americans who drive (semi-)automatics don't give a damn but as a European who loves a manual gearbox I do.

Man,maybe one day we too as Americans will get the opportunity to drive one of these fabled how-you-say "manual gearboxes", they sound like a hoot! hmmm... Am i missing something here?

 

[LogiForce]

Man,maybe one day we too as Americans will get the opportunity to drive one of these fabled how-you-say "manual gearboxes", they sound like a hoot! hmmm... Am i missing something here?

If you don't feel like you are missing anything, then you don't.
I just like to drive with a "standard transmision"/"manual transmission"/"manual gearbox" in my car, like many fellow Europeans. Most Americans like to drive full automatic cars. It's a fact. Renting a car with manual transmission for example is as good as impossible there, although I am sure there are some companies who have a few.

Oh yeah, wait... I forgot sim racing should be a purely American thing now so how manual transmission is simulated hardware wise doesn't matter much.

Sorry but in the end the stuff needs to be as general as possible but as real as possible so that it is enjoyable for everyone around the globe.

On another note I am kinda starting to get sick of the atmosphere on this forum. So after I post my CSW review I reckon I'll move along. Sorry guys, but the hostility is not my thing when I want to enjoy something. Sim racing and talking about it is still something I do for my pleasure, but the enviroment has to be fun. Like going to your favorite bar, if the atmosphere is bad there over a long period of time it is time to look for something new.

 

[Spagetti69]

To much ego boosting around here.

Boys and there toys lol.

 

[tribolik]

Man,maybe one day we too as Americans will get the opportunity to drive one of these fabled how-you-say "manual gearboxes", they sound like a hoot! hmmm... Am i missing something here?

Yeah the joy of short shifting or brake with the engine into a corner or ear the engine screaming when you have to downshift for an overtake and hit the red lines doing it... I honnestly couldnt drive automatic... not even cruising... maybe when I am an old man but even then I doubt it.

Basicly your missing the entire sport style driving... as far as I know there isnt any motorsport with automatic gearboxes.

But to be honnest and thoughIve never tryed it IRL the gearbox type I like the most is with the sequencial stick shifter and only clutch to downshift (like last year DTM and GT1).

 

[RReed43]

The combination of clutch feel, gear shift feel, and sound leave then clutch simulation well short of real life. My IRL car is a six speed so I know what they're like.

I use manual paddle shifters for sim racing and am not sure I would move to a clutch and H shifter even if they were greatly improved. That's just me and will await for reviews on how the sim hardware advances.

 

[fatkrakr]

Logi you should check your facts before you start talking like you know American drivers. About half the vehicles sold in America have a manual transmission. As a matter of fact more cars have them now then 20 years ago. As for renting a car here, (Which is obviously the extent of your USA car knowledge) they are mostly auto trannies because they are for tourist who either dont want to be bothered with or have the experience (foriegn tourist) to drive a manual. Long live the T56!!!!

 

[Spagetti69]

Half hmm. Interesting.

 

[fatkrakr]

Should of checked my facts first looks to be about about 20% of new car sales.

 

[superbike81]

Just to go along with the current topic of discussion, here's my thoughts.

If I'm going to buy a sports car from this decade, it's not going to be a traditional manual, I buy a new car for the latest in high tech so the only options are dual clutch paddle shift, semi-manual gearbox, or Ferrari (F1) style single clutch.

But this is what a 2nd/3rd/4th car is for. If I was going to buy a car from the 90's or older, it would have to be a traditional manual.

Manuals are legacy and belong in legacy cars, not in brand new cars. Just my opinion though.

 

[LogiForce]

Logi you should check your facts before you start talking like you know American drivers. About half the vehicles sold in America have a manual transmission. As a matter of fact more cars have them now then 20 years ago. As for renting a car here, (Which is obviously the extent of your USA car knowledge) they are mostly auto trannies because they are for tourist who either dont want to be bothered with or have the experience (foriegn tourist) to drive a manual. Long live the T56!!!!

Should of checked my facts first looks to be about about 20% of new car sales.

Most cars I have seen when I was there were still automatics though, and yes of course I only hired a car since I was there for only three weeks. On that note I will accept your explenation (including the 20% manual tranny sales) and stand correct. Still in my circle of friends who aren't into racing they tend to still prefer an automatic car. Those that are most often don't though.
And yes, I know American drivers... just not all of them... not by far.

 

[Spagetti69]

On a seperate note a rich tea biscuit has just fallen in my tea.

 

[LogiForce]

Let's just watch this for a bit to end the discussion.

 

[Aiobhill]

Manual transmission - to me - does not represent legacy technology but represents the fact that I as a driver can decide what rpm I want in the current situation as opposed to the car or the engineer who designed it.

That said, I see no intrinsic value in using a clutch, so halfautomatics are perfectly fine, as long as they shift as quickly and as smoothly as an experienced driver. And in bread and butter cars, we aren't there yet.

 

[bobbyknc]

Who really cares whether the majority of American drivers use an automatic. I has more to do with the wide variety of people who drive here and the distances we drive and the amount we drive because we don't have the same extent of public transportation as Europe. Also here in America, people more into the "sport" of driving rather than it just being transportation do like manual transmissions.

But it comes down to the US and Europe are different car cultures and I'm not judging one better than the other like some others across the pond seem to be doing.

But none of that has to do with real racing or sim racing.

 

[superbike81]

Manual transmission - to me - does not represent legacy technology but represents the fact that I as a driver can decide what rpm I want in the current situation as opposed to the car or the engineer who designed it.

That said, I see no intrinsic value in using a clutch, so halfautomatics are perfectly fine, as long as they shift as quickly and as smoothly as an experienced driver. And in bread and butter cars, we aren't there yet.

Not sure what you mean by "bread and butter" cars, but dual clutch transmissions shift MUCH faster and more accurately than any human ever could, and they allow you to select what gear and RPM you want to be at instantly.

 

[superbike81]

Let's just watch this for a bit to end the discussion.

So you pick a video to "end the discussion" which has a guy who isn't accustomed to the characteristics of that particular PDK transmission (which BTW has received several major upgrades since that video) to prove that manuals are faster?

I guess you might want to ignore just about EVERY OTHER test done recently, because almost all of them give the advantage in overall lap times to the dual clutch transmissions.

 

[LogiForce]

Ah whatever... I hadn't watched the video at the time I posted it. But as you can see, the manual seems more fun even though the automatic is faster (especially in newer cars). The semi automatics give the control of a manual... almost. As the clutch can still be used for control as well.
I like to do things by myself as I have more connection with the car. I don't care if it's slower. To go faster doesn't mean it will be more fun by definition. I drive for my own pleasure in the way I can amuse myself the most, in real life and in a game.

 

[amf7]

On a seperate note a rich tea biscuit has just fallen in my tea.

Get a spooooooooooooooooooooooooon!!

 

[amf7]

So you pick a video to "end the discussion" which has a guy who isn't accustomed to the characteristics of that particular PDK transmission (which BTW has received several major upgrades since that video) to prove that manuals are faster?

I guess you might want to ignore just about EVERY OTHER test done recently, because almost all of them give the advantage in overall lap times to the dual clutch transmissions.

Guess you don't know who he is.