...and I've always wondered why ECCI or Derek Speare for example, can't sell some kind of adapter and/or PCB to convert signal to work in tandem with GT5 or Forza?
Is it just impossible/too complicated to do, or what? Or even using the CSP V2's along with the T500 (my current wheel) and TH8 within GT5? Why can't that be accomplished? ... maybe a noob question.
I am not 100% sure, but I think it is somewhat complicated.
Thomas or Derek *could* probably give us a 100% accurate information on that, but I doubt they are willing to discuss it in public because of their logical business-related reasons.
What I have personally *connected* so far is how at some point in time (early 2000's) Logitech went into cooperation with the
Immersion Corporation company and took advantage of their licensed "
TouchSense" software which became the main "BIOS" for their complete wheel lineup, all up to the last model.
Also, as I do remember back in the days of 90's, the *old* Thrustmaster also was one of the licensors of Immersion Co. solution, especially the
"I-FORCE" force feedback technology, which I think was the *father* of the TouchSense.
However, here is where things become more complicated. During the PS/PS2/Xbox era (but mainly from 1999 to 2005) we got massive *outbreak* of devices that were using the Immersion Co. solutions, primarily the controllers with rumble and complete revolution in field of Force Feedback wheels, driven almost uniquely by Logitech/Immersion Co. that pretty much lead the whole FFB-revolution in the genre and made enormous penetration in the wider market through their wheel lineups from 2001 to 2004.
Even before the beginning of the current generation of consoles something went wrong in relations between Immersion Co. and both Sony and Microsoft - where Immersion Co. sued both of them for patent infringement for both their consoles and controllers and usage of their haptics-solutions. Microsoft
resolved the dispute early as 2003 (and opened a way to launch X360 with controllers that have rumble function), while Sony was going with long court-process that lead to launch PS3 without both support for rumble and FFB in the original Sixaxis controllers - while FFB effects for all driving games and wheels were non-existant.
Sony finally
settled the dispute in 2007 and since then grant the rights to present the DualShock3 controller and enable Haptic force feedback effects over HID-protocols in the PS3 console (many should remember
the day when FFB got restored in the GT:HD demo in 2007 and some other games too, primarily the Formula One Championship Edition as well as all PS2 games that were compatible with 60GB PS3 backthan).
So, this story tells us the following: it is not just *basic* HID-force feedback SDK that have to be built into wheel, it also have to be "supported" by actual consoles. And for that, we have stories (examples) from both camps:
Example #1: Microsoft Licensing for Xbox/X360
Although both generation of Xbox console have USB inputs and obviously are licensed for Immersion Co. TouchSense technology usage, it is deliberate decision of Microsoft to prevent plug-n-play usage of certificated HID devices because of the profits they obtain from licensing Xbox third-party devices.
We know that all manufactures of devices (wheels included) have to pay for the special license to support X360. Regarding steering wheels it is worth noticing is how Microsoft insists for usage of the "XID" force feedback protocols for Xbox/X360 instead of much more *standardized* "HID" which is used by PS2/PS3 and all PC basically.
For a wider perspective of XID/HID problems on X360 in the early days of Fanatec's development of MS-related solutions, please
check this link.
Example #2: Thrustmaster T500RS
Thrustmaster went very far and developed their own haptic-software solution, now called
HEART. However, their own solution lead to the fact how every game that *wants* to support T500RS have to have a support for it through programming a code up to prerequisites of the T500RS SDK. In short, at this point, just a very small number of PS3 games supports T500RS - with almost unbelivable fact how GT5, as the *official game* of the T500RS still does not support the sequential shifting for the TH8 shifter, which still blows my mind
Example #3: Fanatec wheels
With the every Logitech wheel-model that supports TouchSense solutions from Immersion Co. (from the very old Dual Force models up to latest G27), they are all supported to PS3 console by just plug-n-play, and also with every PC (after installing the drivers).
However, for using the Fanatec models on the PS3 (as far as those I owned are concerned, I do not know for older ones), you have to manually go into the "PS3" mode in order to use it in the games (console recognizes them in PC mode just for usage in the XMB menu). Despite PS3 console recognizes Logitech models out-of-the-box without need to change any *modes*, same kind of *instant recognition* is not granted to Fanatec.
So, with examples of T500RS and Fanatec I conclude that support for hardware must be granted by manufacturer of the platform and game developer and how only Logitech models so far are being *universal* solutions for PS2/PS3/PC, while there is no solution for Xbox platform without additional licensing (also being properly made only by Fanatec).
Also, very important thing to notice is how ALL OF THE WHEELS ABOVE are made to work as
"once device solutions" through only ONE USB PORT (you can opt to connect Fanatec's pedals as separate device on PC, but you can also use them with the wheel as a "router" in the console USB modes). However, it was also recently circumvented on the PS3 for TH8 so it also have something to do with the console firmware I presume.
I presume how inability (deliberate decision) to produce devices that have separate USB-connectors for every device (wheel, pedals, shifter, button box..) that all other manufacturers (those I called "PC only") pursue is the main reason of lack of their support at consoles.
Also, all above examples tells us how another obstacle *could* be related to actual firmware (SDK & software) that runs the wheels (either TouchSense, HEART of Fanatec own FW solutions) and support that some firmware(s) gets from Sony/Microsoft while others do not. But this last thing is something I can't know for sure, because I have no idea about what type of haptic-solutions (FFB firmwares) are used by either Frex, ECII or any other "PC-only" manufacturer - while I am almost 100% sure they are not using aither TouchSense, HEART or Fanatec FW.
It is a complicated situation this way or another
That probably has a lot to with why there is no "industry standard" on the console side to allow mix and match of lets say a Thrustmaster wheel with CSPs.
I just don't understand why someone swift with electronics/software can't make the proper signal conversion adapter, especially if they're running on the same resolution?
I think how problem with above is not in any "industry standard" but in the way how every wheel/pedals is constructed. We already witnessed that TH8 can be used with Fanatec wheels with custom-made solution, but main problem lays is way how pedal-input (signal) is being processed inside the particular hardware and delivered to HID-controller.
My tech-savy friend is currently testing something related to that and what I understood (and he's engineer so he's talking alien language as I am concerned) both Thrustmaster, Logitech and Fanatec have different way how pedals are "talking" with the wheels. And of course, each of them uses completely different type of input/output standards for connection of pedals with the wheels, which could also be deliberate decision by every of them made in order to maintain their integrity.