Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

[mrbasher]

Contacted CS over the phone. Issue handled immediately. Replacement CSW base and replacement CSPv2 throttle sensor on the way. Pretty easy.

For those that have trouble contacting Fanatec CS over email, I have yet to have a phone call not solve my problem.

You should call them back and ask if it has the new motors.

 

[RacerXX]

Another issue could be that the motors are being run from a single driver and mosfet.

Well these devices use the H Bridge concept. The four solid state switches form the corners of the H with the motor forming the cross if you make a diagram, hence the nickname. So there is not one mosfet, there are four. Two chips per circuit board on CSRs, each chip with two mosfets. Two mosfets (an N and a P) are used for each direction the motor can turn. The other two handle the other direction.

I have not seen a CSR-E board in person, but the mosfets would be located under the silver heat sink. Is there a four mosfet bridge, or two bridges (one bridge per motor)?

How is it that Logitech can drive two motors in parallel from one drive circuit containing four mosfets (two chips with two mosfets apiece), use no special motor alignment, and not run into the problem you claim for Fanatec?

And how would you know it is only the pole alignment that could be the issue, if there is an issue besides an unfortunate batch of motors? For sure some other wheels can lock left at full force which would break parts. I avoid that by not leaving the wheel on and unattended.

If the motors in an Elite / CSW need to be precision aligned with one another as you claim, then how would that be maintained given that ribbed and not cogged belts are used? If either motor ever slips the slightest amount, or if the external belt tension adjustment allen bolts are reset then your alignment would be off, yes?

Let's see some more information from you on why the pole alignment is the core issue.

 

[RacerXX]

You should call them back and ask if it has the new motors.

The motors have a part number as well as a lot/batch number. It might be easiest to review those. What were the lot number(s) of the motors you examined that failed due to pole misalignment WRT each other? Also, what were the Fanatec serial number(s) on the failed devices with those misaligned poles?

On this CSR motor, the first line is the Mabuchi part number and the last line is the lot number:

 

[mrbasher]

Edit: I changed my mind... I'm not going to try to explain this further. I will however leave what I have stated below. I am not interested in trying to prove what I do and do not know about the issue. I am simply interested in bringing the situation to light and lending some actual experienced knowledge to the situation at hand. I leave some info out of my posts because it would not be pertinent to folks that simply want a working wheel and are not interested in details such as the package type used in the mosfets, what an H-Bridge is, etc. These are basics that anyone with some technical background will understand. However, they are beyond the scope of what the general public can make use of.

How many CSR (not elite) or other current single motor Fanatec wheels have you read about that have motor failures? Motors like these are purchased by the hundreds or thousands. It's not as though there were 20 bad ones in a batch. Thus, it stands to reason that some of these bad motors should have ended up in wheels other than the Elite and CSW as well. I have yet to read about any of these having similar issues.

If the motors in an Elite / CSW need to be precision aligned with one another as you claim, then how would that be maintained given that ribbed and not cogged belts are used? If either motor ever slips the slightest amount, or if the external belt tension adjustment allen bolts are reset then your alignment would be off, yes?

It would not be maintained indefinitely. You did read what I posted before, correct? Where I stated that it would probably not stay aligned? Sorry, I can't really tell where you are coming from here...

 

[mrbasher]

I apologize for this RacerXX, but if you would like to discuss the technical details regarding this I would be happy to via PM.

I am not interested in posting (edit: technical) facts, figures or otherwise on this thread as it simply confuses the primary issue of there being a problem with the two wheels.

Furthermore, I do no appreciate this little "call out" on your part:

"Let's see some more information from you on why the pole alignment is the core issue."

You're welcome to look up the information for yourself. You seem to be technically inclined enough to understand the concepts involved.

 

[RacerXX]

The driver is the H bridge circuit, thus, the motors share the driver. Optimally there should be two H bridges, one for each motor. This is not likely to be the primary cause for the issue, only a contributor, especially if there really was a bad batch of motors.

There is no need to explain an H bridge to myself or the group as it is irrelevant and more information than is necessary. This is unless you would simply like to exhibit your knowledge on the subject. As well, it is the standard method for driving a DC motor in two directions and braking... If you asked someone that knew a little about driving DC motors how the wheel was driving them, they would undoubtedly state that it was using an H bridge of some type.

I have no explanation as to why the Logitech wheels do not exhibit this same behavior as frequently. They do however have issues with the mosfets and motors on occasion. (people have pages set up explaining the procedures for their replacement) I would need to take my G27 apart in order to look and see how it is configured. However, it is quite possible that the gearing is such that no matter how the motor is inserted, it's poles are aligned. If they were not, the cogging would be far less apparent.

As for the bad batch of motors or some other cause... I do not know the reason for the failures. I can only make statements regarding what I have personally seen and based on the knowledge I have of the issue. Motors should be aligned when directly coupled, it's a given. As well, they should be driven from isolated sources when paralleled.

How many CSR (not elite) or other current single motor Fanatec wheels have you read about that have motor failures? Motors like these are purchased by the hundreds or thousands. It's not as though there were 20 bad ones in a batch. Thus, it stands to reason that some of these bad motors should have ended up in wheels other than the Elite and CSW as well. I have yet to read about any of these having similar issues.

Lastly, I don't need to prove anything... It's not my product. There is an issue, undoubtedly, and it seems rather wide spread. If indeed this is a bad batch of motors, then hopefully the new ones will fix the issue.



It would not be maintained indefinitely. You did read what I posted before, correct? Where I stated that it would probably not stay aligned? Sorry, I can't really tell where you are coming from here...

Umm, you are the one with the claims. They caught my interest hence I asked you for some more information as to how you came to your conclusion. Your conclusion may be correct, I do not know. If you don't care to elaborate I understand. It's necessary to discuss the drive circuit / motor subject in this subtopic since it is the specific subject which you brought up.

Below is a Logitech drive picture. The two motors are apparently in parallel (can you confirm?) and are driven by one drive circuit using a four mosfet H Bridge with two chips each containing two mosfet elements. The L motors are loaded in with no particular pole alignment! This conflicts with your claim that it is imperative that each motor is driven by it's own H Bridge mosfet circuit or that the motor's poles must be aligned. The Logitechs are fed with less current but the same voltage as the Fanatecs. If your pole alignment theory is correct, perhaps it only becomes critical if the motors are driven harder, as Fanatec does.

You suggested aligning the poles of the two Elite/CSW motors in a design whose belt drive prevents maintaining sync between the two motor poles, hence you seem to suggest that only a dual drive circuit should be used? Given various other things that can harm a motor or drive circuit I am wondering how you were able to separate those factors from the pole alignment concern you've noted in order to come to your specific conclusion.

 

[mrbasher]

As I stated before, you are welcome to PM me and we can discuss the technical details that way. Maybe between the two of us we can figure out what is going on. However, I do feel it simply confuses the thread and the point of the discussion, thus I have already made the necessary edits to my previous post. (I see you have quoted it, leave it if you wish)

I should note that RacerXX is correct in his assertion that I do not know for sure that the misalignment is the cause of the issue or that the way they are being driven is the cause of the issue. I apologize if I seem to have misled anyone in this respect. I do not believe I stared it WAS the cause... I stated that I believe it may be.

That said, I will stand by what I have stated with regard to the optimal configuration.

 

[JogoAsobi]

I smell trolls in disguise...

Good ones too, suck you right into the vortex...

...just don't feed 'em folks...

 

[HoiHman]

It is not a design flaw. It was a batch of motors which had a high defective rate. I can confirm that there was this We can now replace those motors which are manufactured well and will last for sure.

Good to know

 

[mrbasher]

I would still like to know from Fanatec when these new motors started being used in replaced and new wheels.

Also, why does this issue not rear it's head in the CSR wheels?

This isn't the time to fall silent Fanatec. You just stated that you put faulty motors into your wheels.

Thanks.

 

[Spagetti69]

I don't think your going to get a straight answer there Jon.

The moment Thomas says everything after date xxxxxx is fine. The proverbial will hit the fan.
Internet wildfire will consume the masses and people owning wheels prior to the date will start to lose hair.

Edit. Thomas you dropped a big one.

 

[mrbasher]

Agreed.

Seems odd to me though that they would continue to send out faulty units if they knew there was an issue with the motors. What would cost more? Replacing the motors with "new" ones or chance having to burn through 6 bases in some cases. (sorry for the pun) That's a heck of a lot of shipping charges...

I suppose we can assume that this was a recent discovery, otherwise they would not have repeatedly sent out bases that may have faulty motors.

 

[JogoAsobi]

Edit. Thomas you dropped a big one.

 

[wmsbill]

Hello everyone, I am from Brasil. I have purchased a CSW a few months ago.
I was able to get it because my friend in USA could send it to me since Fanatec does not ship here.

..but a few days ago, it quit working.
I have lost all FFB, and then it does not power up now. When I borrowed my friend's CSW PSU it will start, but no FFB.

I do not know what i will do, there is no Fanatec support in Brasil.

It will be very expensive for me to send it back to USA for repair.

Does Fanatec have some suggestion for me?

 

[AGP5000]

I have a beta CSW base, and all still feels pretty damn good here. I do have a slight "cogging" sensation while sitting still. This did NOT happen the first few weeks I had it. However, under FFB load in game though, NO issues to report.

Johannes said this "could" possibly happen, and to keep an eye on it IF it gets any worse. This was back in September, and NO issues to really report. My suspicion is 1 of the motors, but under FFB load in game, it does NOT cog, or feel notchy at all.

I put about +-10 hours per week on it MAX. I don't know if more use, or too much power on the FFB strains the motor or not, but all is well here on a BetaTester base.

 

[wmsbill]

I played 16 hours/Week of race games with my CSW. Some weeks with holidays, this number increased to 20, 24 hours.

 

[Carson79]

Hello everyone, I am from Brasil. I have purchased a CSW a few months ago.
I was able to get it because my friend in USA could send it to me since Fanatec does not ship here.

..but a few days ago, it quit working.
I have lost all FFB, and then it does not power up now. When I borrowed my friend's CSW PSU it will start, but no FFB.

I do not know what i will do, there is no Fanatec support in Brasil.

It will be very expensive for me to send it back to USA for repair.

Does Fanatec have some suggestion for me?

I actually feel worse for your situation mate, perhaps Thomas can offer some kind of compromise on the shipping costs involved. You should definitely get a replacement and as a good will gesture they could cover the shipping to you in Brasil and you could cover the return of the faulty CSW to the states

 

[Cote Dazur]

Hello everyone, I am from Brasil. I have purchased a CSW a few months ago.
I was able to get it because my friend in USA could send it to me since Fanatec does not ship here.

..but a few days ago, it quit working.
I have lost all FFB, and then it does not power up now. When I borrowed my friend's CSW PSU it will start, but no FFB.

I do not know what i will do, there is no Fanatec support in Brasil.

It will be very expensive for me to send it back to USA for repair.

Does Fanatec have some suggestion for me?

My suggestion to you is to address the issue with Fanatec CS, if it is not already done, this is a GT planet thread on some possible issue with CSR Elite/CSW feedback motors, not a help line to Fanatec!

 

[JogoAsobi]

My suggestion to you is to address the issue with Fanatec CS, if it is not already done, this is a GT planet thread on some possible issue with CSR Elite/CSW feedback motors, not a help line to Fanatec!

Dude you are WAY out of line here, other people are posting their similar issues.

He is non-native speaker of English in a country (Brasil) Fanatec DOES NOT SUPPORT.

Did you not understand that?

Fanatec drops in and "selectively" interacts on this thread, and the greater forum, hence it is a legit channel of communication.

So are you telling us here what the parameters for discussion/comments are?

I see no thread discussion "rules" in the OP by this thread's author Crispy.
I assume you wouldn't do something like take the liberty to speak for Crispy or would you?

 

[Cote Dazur]

Dude you are WAY out of line here, other people are posting their similar issues.

He is non-native speaker of English in a country (Brasil) Fanatec DOES NOT SUPPORT.

Did you not understand that?

Fanatec drops in and "selectively" responds on this thread, and the greater forum, hence it is a legit channel of communication.

So are you telling us here what the parameters for discussion/comments are?

I see no thread discussion "rules" in the OP by this thread's author Crispy.
I assume you wouldn't do something like take the liberty to speak for Crispy or would you?

I think I understand better than you.
1. this thread is not the best way to get help from Fanatec.
2. Fanatec will help any customer anywhere in the world.
3. I am also non native speaker of English, as you put it.
4. I did not tell him not to post here, I suggested ( my suggestion) a more productive way to get results.

So take it easy ( Dude) , chill out, there no lack of respect for any one here, just trying to help some one who might be thinking, after 3 post, that GT Planet is where Fanatec help his customers.

 

[JogoAsobi]

I think I understand better than you.

Please explain why you have these insights.

They seem to be stated with so much "conviction".

Do you work for them?

 

[Cote Dazur]

Please explain why.

I thought I did in my answer.

1. this thread is not the best way to get help from Fanatec.
2. Fanatec will help any customer anywhere in the world.
3. I am also non native speaker of English, as you put it.
4. I did not tell him not to post here, I suggested ( my suggestion) a more productive way to get results.

Again, I was just trying to steer a fellow Fanatec anthousiast to the proper ressource to fix his issue, same I have done before with my own issues, Speaking with Fanatec CS, they are doing a good job as far as I am concern.

Please send me a PM if there is anything else to discuss

@ WMSBill, I hope you find a satisfactory resolution from Fanatac on your issue, I live in Canada and when I have the need for support, like everybody else in the world, I get in contact with the CS in Germany and have always had great support. Good luck

 

[wmsbill]

I think I understand better than you.
1. this thread is not the best way to get help from Fanatec.
2. Fanatec will help any customer anywhere in the world.
3. I am also non native speaker of English, as you put it.
4. I did not tell him not to post here, I suggested ( my suggestion) a more productive way to get results.

So take it easy ( Dude) , chill out, there no lack of respect for any one here, just trying to help some one who might be thinking, after 3 post, that GT Planet is where Fanatec help his customers.

Sorry guy. I don't want to extend this discussion, but I posted here to try to find a way to get help. Some people posted the same issue here, and I put my story to contribute and try to find a solution together. Furthermore, fanatec maybe saw my post and other posts of this same issue. Just because this is a discussion forum. Although I have only 3 posts, I'm a member since 2011, and I follow this threads since GT4.

Sorry if, my post annoyed you, but by buying a 500 bucks stuff that get broken, the only thing that you may expect from me is post here

 

[Cote Dazur]

Sorry guy. I don't want to extend this discussion, but I posted here to try to find a way to get help. Some people posted the same issue here, and I put my story to contribute and try to find a solution together. Furthermore, fanatec maybe saw my post and other posts of this same issue. Just because this is a discussion forum. Although I have only 3 posts, I'm a member since 2011, and I follow this threads since GT4.

Sorry if, my post annoyed you, but by buying a 500 bucks stuff that get broken, the only thing that you may expect from me is post here

I appologize if I made you feel unconfortable and/or unwelcome in this thread, I am glad you posted you story, your last line about asking Fanatec for help and the small amount of post misslead me in thinking you might have have expected to much support for your particular issue from this thread.
Sorry for causing any bad feelings, still I hope you will not refrain from contacting Fanatec CS directly as I have no doubt they can help.

Edit, After beeing educated by a friend, I realize now that Fanatec products are not currently available in some country, as mentionned on their web site, when you try to order a product from them. Brasil is one of the country where Fanatec products are not currently available. I hope you find a solution to your situation.

 

[JogoAsobi]

Edit, After beeing educated by a friend, I realize now that Fanatec products are not currently available in some country, as mentionned on their web site, when you try to order a product from them. Brasil is one of the country where Fanatec products are not currently available. I hope you find a solution to your situation.

PM received, thanks much.

All's good here, chalked up to mis-communication.

 

[fatkrakr]

I recieved my formula rim today. I mostly bought it to use with the MP4 in Iracing. I really do like it. Makes racing the MP4 much more enjoyable. It did reveal one problem though. Every since I got the CSW Ive been using the screw in the rim, because I wasnt changing rims. My BMW rim has alot of wobble on the shaft without the screw in it. Is there a way to fix it or does it need to be returned? Is fanatec replacing them or Im I just stuck using the screw with the BMW rim? I do hope it can be resolved so I dont need to use the screw anymore. It kinda defeats the purpose of a quick release if I need to use the screw in it.

 

[JogoAsobi]

I recieved my formula rim today. I mostly bought it to use with the MP4 in Iracing. I really do like it. Makes racing the MP4 much more enjoyable. It did reveal one problem though. Every since I got the CSW Ive been using the screw in the rim, because I wasnt changing rims. My BMW rim has alot of wobble on the shaft without the screw in it. Is there a way to fix it or does it need to be returned? Is fanatec replacing them or Im I just stuck using the screw with the BMW rim? I do hope it can be resolved so I dont need to use the screw anymore. It kinda defeats the purpose of a quick release if I need to use the screw in it.

You might want to touch bases with HoiHman, I recall him stating in a recent post somewhere that he had similar issue.

 

[Carson79]

I recieved my formula rim today. I mostly bought it to use with the MP4 in Iracing. I really do like it. Makes racing the MP4 much more enjoyable. It did reveal one problem though. Every since I got the CSW Ive been using the screw in the rim, because I wasnt changing rims. My BMW rim has alot of wobble on the shaft without the screw in it. Is there a way to fix it or does it need to be returned? Is fanatec replacing them or Im I just stuck using the screw with the BMW rim? I do hope it can be resolved so I dont need to use the screw anymore. It kinda defeats the purpose of a quick release if I need to use the screw in it.

I had this issue and although after sending them a very detailed video of the play in the BMW rim they said it needed a new spring ( admitting a fault) then after the new spring made little or no difference I contacted them again and it was sent in for inspection. I basically was told even real race cars have play (they even sent a video of play in a race car) in them and if I want to race without any play I need to use the screw. They said the play is within the tolerance 1-2mm. It's never 1-2mm play more like 4-5mm at the wheel it feels like the whole wheel moves from side to side 👎 And even with the screw in place mine still moves! The screw loosens over time also, so the screw does not solve the issue..........But Fanatec says it's totally within the tolerance........After seeing the video and admitting the fault

 

[smokey777]

ya my CSW BMW rim is the same (don't have F1 rim) i just use the screw when tightened up well it don't come loose. im not really in posi to send back etc as i had a friend in US buy wheel & send it to me but its a non issue with screw in for me

 

[HoiHman]

Yep, de fanatec CSW QR has a noticable play. I wasn't happy with it from day 1.

I have had both rims replaced, but there is still play without the screw.
Since then i have been using both rims with the screw, which in my case eliminates the play entirely and this is the ONLY solution.:

I have been ensured by the local Fanatec representative that the thread in the axle will hold even if you use the screw everytime you switch rims and secure it firmly.

With the screw in, i'm pretty happy with my CSW, but that's not how i imagined how the Quick Release on the CSW should be, when i bought it.