Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

[ItsHim]

Your profile says you are a "Civil Servant."

What expertise do you have in business law or running a multi-million dollar business?

I have an academic background in finance and strategic management.

For the second part of my working life I chose to give society something back and thus decided being a civil servant. Oh, I'd like the term "Officer of the Crown" so much better, but in Germany we did away with monarchy quite some time ago Being a civil servant usually means fulfilling sceptered duties. It's a much more fulfilling "job" than to fleece somebody all day long.

 

[superbike81]

I have an academic background in finance and strategic management.

I have an academic background in medicine, but since I haven't practiced medicine in anything greater than pre-hospital emergency care, I can't call myself a doctor. I study different surgeries for fun, I can talk you through a complete knee replacement surgery or gallbladder removal with my eyes closed, but I'm not going to tell a surgeon how to do his job unless he's doing something that would be considered malpractice or exposing the patient to other dangers.

Point being, I'm not a surgeon (yet), you aren't the owner of a major business, and Thomas isn't doing anything illegal or unethical. So I don't think you have any place telling him what he is doing right or wrong. Your civil service position is admirable, but I think you are overstepping your bounds.

 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Business owner: Try to earn as much money as possible by making what the customer wants.

Surgeon: Try to earn as much money as possible by keeping their customer alive.

Civil servant: Try to earn as much money as possible by doing the minimal requirement on their job description. Customer don't have much say!

Although civil servant could also running a multibillion dollars operation, I had a hard time believing that they can also be a business expert.

 

[JogoAsobi]

iPhone app miss.
No chum dispensed.
Delete

 

[Cote Dazur]

It is all great reading and entertaining, but could we please go back to what this thread is about.💡

 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

Wanted: A light all plastic GT rim for the CSW. I missed all the small FFB effect I used to on the G25.

 

[ItsHim]

Although civil servant could also running a multibillion dollars operation, I had a hard time believing that they can also be a business expert.

Many have had a hard time believing a civil servant could speak English (or French), too. I'd say my grammar is a bit rusty, but I'm still going strong on the vocabulary side of things.

 

[GreatWhiteNorth]

OK, civil servant are also strong at rules enforcement (Gramma). But they still don't fit the title as business expert!

 

[Motorcycle54]

Logiforce,

the issues you mentioned were all solved in the recent production batches. The design does not need any change if it is manufactured properly. Some of the early versions had issues because our factory needed time to get familiar with the product but we now solved all known issues.

Thomas I want to ask you this in public:

When your GT2-w-V2 pedals package arrived, within 24 hours the GT2 stopped turning on with the power button. Then it worked again. Then it stopped again. What should I think Thomas? And this was approx. 10-14 days ago. Understand that I really want the Elite ..but these (motor issues Logiforce asked about), and the rest, led me to buy a t500rs. The Thrustmaster can be returned within 30 days, no worries. I have 25 days left. Will you work with me to get a (damn) Elite thats reliable?

For sure, if you can help, and if all goes well, I will be happy to forget my recent bad fanatec experiences. If you PM me I will arange to do whatever it takes. The webstore price for the Elite has gone up since my problems began ..so thats one area you can help me with. I want to send you my money- I just want a decent reliability 'from the box' and not promises of customer service. Ok? Please PM me. The t500 is fine, of course, but your design has my passion in it

THANK YOU

 

[Spagetti69]

What is this thread about?

 

[oqvist]

I don´t know it gets weirder every minute and I am all out of popcorn.

 

[Jet Badger]

What is this thread about?

Spaghetti.

 

[Motorcycle54]

Ive been arguing on another forum with someone who assumes there is an absolute relationship between how much money you spend and what exactly you get out of it.
This thread is about Fanatec Announcements, and from what Ive read and what I experienced they are the wheel controller poster-child for an argument like that.

 

[bermudakid]

Are there plans to bring the Premium Value pack to the US? I'm pretty much ready to buy, but I'm going to hold off if it's coming to the US.

^ This ? Also, Thomas can we get some free or discounted shipping in the US? 👍

 

[eKretz]

RacerXX, I am interested in keeping in touch regarding your mods to the FFB motors, etc. I have been through FFB motor burnout twice since last June with my Elite. I have already purchased 2 Bühler 1.13.046.401 24VDC 7-pole ball-bearing motors to replace the next set of motors that fail. There is supposed to be a new batch of FFB motors in the newest wheels, but we'll see. The Bühlers are a little larger in diameter and a little longer than the OEM motors but I will make them work with a few modifications. (I am a machinist). I am also thinking I will implement the belt wrap-around idea. PM me if you are interested in keeping in touch and we can exchange email addresses.

As far as the belt issue, if you give me the belt numbers mrbasher, I will see what I can find through my contacts. (I also did estimating, sales and purchasing in my last machine shop employment). I am as of now not working due to a failed back surgery so I have a lot of free time and free access to the machines at my former employer (I can only stand for short periods and some days not much at all).

 

[mrbasher]

RacerXX has the belt info and apparently obtained them through a US distributor. Unfortunately, when asked he hasn't posted that info for anyone else to see.

Maybe he would be kind enough to post that info now that you are asking?

 

[mrbasher]

Here are the different belt model numbers I have for the CSR-Elite:

If using Gates:
Gates 4PJ408
Gates 2EPJ584

If using Optibelt:
Optibelt PJ414
Optibelt PJ584

 

[RacerXX]

RacerXX, I am interested in keeping in touch regarding your mods to the FFB motors, etc. I have been through FFB motor burnout twice since last June with my Elite. I have already purchased 2 Bühler 1.13.046.401 24VDC 7-pole ball-bearing motors to replace the next set of motors that fail. There is supposed to be a new batch of FFB motors in the newest wheels, but we'll see. The Bühlers are a little larger in diameter and a little longer than the OEM motors but I will make them work with a few modifications. (I am a machinist). I am also thinking I will implement the belt wrap-around idea. PM me if you are interested in keeping in touch and we can exchange email addresses.

As far as the belt issue, if you give me the belt numbers mrbasher, I will see what I can find through my contacts. (I also did estimating, sales and purchasing in my last machine shop employment). I am as of now not working due to a failed back surgery so I have a lot of free time and free access to the machines at my former employer (I can only stand for short periods and some days not much at all).

PM sent.

 

[eKretz]

The belts are actually no different than any standard J-section belt offered here in the U.S. The PJ is a designation only used in Europe (the P just means it is metric length), hence you can't find it in the U.S. anywhere. It is, however, identical to the J-section in pitch and height. Apparently, mrbasher, you spoke to a junior tech engineer or somebody who was unfamiliar with the PJ designation (not unusual since it isn't used in the U.S.).

Please take note these are the belts for the CSR Elite and the ClubSport Wheel. These are NOT for the plain CSR wheel or any older wheels. Also note that the motor drive belt on my new CSW is a 3-rib, not a 2-rib like the Elite. Not sure if they are all like this.


Here is the equivalent of the 2EPJ584/PJ584, the 230J2:

http://www.royalsupply.com/store/pc/Gates-230J2-Micro-V-V-Belt-917102302-p37084.htm

And here is the closest equivalent of the 4PJ408, the 160J4:

http://www.vbeltsupply.com/ecommerce/160j4-serpentine-belt.html

And last, the closest equivalent of the PJ414, the 170J4:

http://www.vbelts4less.com/170J4--J-POLY-V-BELT_p_24929.html

These are going to be a tad different in length, (i.o.w. circumference) but you can rectify that by adjusting the tensioner. For instance, the 584 belt is actually 22.993" OEM and the 230 is 23". The 408 is actually about 16.063" while the 160J4 is 16.0" and The 414 is 16.299", while the 170J4 is an actual 17.0" in length. The amount of difference isn't as significant as it sounds since the difference is in circumference, so you should only have to move the tensioner about 1/3 the difference to get the same tension.

The reason for this is the belts with Section PJ are metric, and the Section J belts are inch sizes.

 

[smokey777]

that's funny eKretz as I have a US sourced CSW (got it sent to me) & its belt is a PJ414 so they have gone metric for US CSWs?

 

[mrbasher]

Apparently, mrbasher, you spoke to a junior tech engineer or somebody who was unfamiliar with the PJ designation (not unusual since it isn't used in the U.S.).

Please take note these are the belts for the CSR Elite and the ClubSport Wheel. These are NOT for the plain CSR wheel or any older wheels.

eKretz,

I never spoke to the engineer about the CSR-Elite and CSW belts... If you look back in the thread I spoke to them about the CSR (and other single motor Fanatec wheel) toothed belts.

Thank you for posting the info on the grooved belts.

 

[eKretz]

Smokey, the wheels are made in China, so yes, they would be metric. The parts, including belts, seem to be sourced from the cheapest supplier and all would be coming from either China or Germany/Europe. Don't forget they were designed in Europe, so they would have been designed for what was available there. You can possibly source the belts in their metric sizes in Australia? I don't know if you guys are using inch or metric for your belts there. Anyone in Europe should have no problems at all finding the metric sizes in the PJ designations.

basher, I apologize, my mistake. I did PM you regarding that p/n for the older belt but you never answered.

 

[mrbasher]

Sorry I am at work...

The part numbers are in this thread.

York has some similar belts. However, as I stated earlier and via PM I believe. The 3GT designation on these belts is not actually a "GT" profile, despite the designation.

 

[smokey777]

ya metric here mate will source some if I ever need to

 

[eKretz]

Okay, I just had a few chats with a few different folks regarding the belts for the CSR wheel using the part numbers from this thread of 267-3GT-9 & 270-3GT-11. Again, these are for the plain CSR wheel, NOT the Elite or CSW. Not sure if the older GT2/GT3 wheels use these same belts?


First off, here is a source where you can buy the proper 3GT Unitta belts, verbatim. P/n's are:

GBN 267 3GT - 90 and GBN 270 3GT - 150 (needs to be 110)

http://us.misumi-ec.com/us/ItemDetail/10302190510.html

The belts are not offered from stock at the 110 (11mm) width though, they are offered at 150 (15mm). So they will have to be cut to width by the distributor or yourself.


On to the easier available belts:

The info you got mrbasher was partially correct. The tooth profile for the Gates-Unitta "3GT" belts, which are Asian in origin, are slightly different than the Gates U.S. profile (These are actually called "3MR"). The reason, if anyone's interested, is that at the time the profile was created, Gates did not own Unitta, and they had created their own profile prior to being bought that was only being used in the Asian market. Once Gates bought Unitta, they decided rather than obsoleting all the pulleys and belts already out there, to just keep the different profiles in different markets.

Okay, now for the good news. The Unitta (GT) pulley will function with a standard Gates MR profile belt, but the Unitta belt will not function with U.S. MR pulleys (which doesn't matter to us). The pitch is the same, the tooth depth on the Unitta pulleys are just a tiny bit deeper and wider. So as long as the belts are properly tensioned, there should be no problem whatsoever using the U.S. MR belts on the Unitta GT (O.E.M.) pulleys.

Now, a problem. Gates U.S. (MR) belts only come in widths of 9mm and 15mm standard, so you will have to pay a little extra to get the 11mm width cut to width by the distributor or do it yourself. And the belts are only available in 267 length. That shouldn't be a big deal as long as they can be tensioned.

The part numbers I was given as cross-reference by the engineer were:

3MR-267-09 and 3MR-267-15

Here's the Gates website showing the product:

http://www.catalogds.com/db/service...showProduct&category=gt_pg&product=3MR-267-09


Another option is to purchase new pulleys with the U.S. MR profile and switch the Unitta pulleys out, but I sure wouldn't bother if it was me.

 

[novadave]

the problem here is that those belts are not the original replacement type and are not a direct replacemet and no matter what you do will not last for obvious reasons.
the pulleys are not replaceable on the PTWS-GT2-CSR wheels.
what many have wanted to know is if they could get the original belts and after many attempts have discovered that they can not.
fanatec has chosen this pulley configuration for a reason that goes deeper than many realise.

 

[eKretz]

Yes, actually the top link is a direct replacement belt with the proper profile. However I am thinking they will probably not be cheap, so I provided the U.S. (inch) versions also.

The U.S. belts shouldn't wear at a rate that precludes using them for at least several months, and they are what $2 each? I'd run 'em if the direct replacements were expensive. I looked at the profiles in AutoCAD and they are very very close. Where they are different makes absolutely zero difference. I have worked on industrial power transmission equipment for 20 years, and IMO the belts would function just fine for this application. If I had a CSR I would buy them right now if the misumi-sourced belts were out of reach. I don't see there being much of an issue myself. For $2 somebody should try it and see. It's not like its going to damage the pulleys.

 

[novadave]

sorry but they are not identical and will fail prematurely and these wheels are a pain to dissasemble just to change belts.
as for experience i am an engineer that has probably designed the things you work on and have been doing my job for over 40+ years.
as i said before there is no simple way for the average person to modify these wheels to be able to apply proper tension and adjust for the improper tooth pattern.
fanatec needs to be the one to supply the proper belts to get any decent life out of these wheels.
the tooth pattern on a cog belt configuration is very important

 

[eKretz]

With all due respect, yes, of course the tooth profile is important, but this is not a 5000HP mill drive. And the parts of the profile in contact with the pulley are nearly identical. And you are wrong about the Misumi belts. They are the correct Gates-Unitta profile. Again, I checked the CAD profile of BOTH belts. And while you may design things, I have seen, every single day, and worked on power transmission systems that worked, and that didn't work. I have seen some of the most ridiculous rig-jobs you could ever fathom come in for repair. I have a pretty good feel for when something will work or won't by now. As long as the U.S. belt was kept properly tensioned, I believe it would work. If, as you say, there is no way to provide for tensioning the belt then I would say stick with the Misumi belts, because then the U.S. belt probably wouldn't work out. Pretty rotten design if there's truly no way to set belt tension.

One thing I don't understand is why Fanatec doesn't supply a source for the belts. I am assuming that that is the case at least, or why would anyone be searching these out?

 

[novadave]

think about it for a moment in the same mind thought as a manufacturer.
why can`t you go to a transmission rebuilder for a BMW automatic transmission.
think about it .
as far as belt difference that cog tooth difference represents a 19% variation