Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

  • Thread starter Crispy
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Sorry, but your analogy doesn't make sense to me. A belt and a transmission are in two completely different leagues. Using your analogy in a more logical fashion I shouldn't be able to buy a serpentine belt for my BMW at AutoZone. But I certainly can.

I have just gotten through talking with Unitta Japan, BTW. They have confirmed that the 3GT belts offered by both York and Misumi are the correct profile. The gentleman I spoke with was even kind enough to provide me with a PDF link so everyone here can see the dimensions for themselves.

Here is the PDF from Unitta Japan with the tooth profile fully dimensioned:

http://gates.co.kr/program/page/download.php?uid=1365
The applicable profile is on pg. 48 of the document.

Here is the PDF from Misumi showing their 3GT belt tooth profile:

http://th.misumi-ec.com/pdf/fa/2010/p1_1189.pdf


And last but not least, here is the profile of the York belt:

http://www.york-ind.com/product.asp?type=belts&pitch=2
Note you will have to download this one to see it by clicking the PDF link.

As you can clearly see, they are identical.

I hope this will set the matter to rest.
 
i am refering to why you can not get the proper belts from the manufacturer perspective.
the idea is the same whether it be belts or any other replacement part.
again take the time to think about it.
don`t worry - i have access to just about any schematic or plan you can think of and i have already studied it in length.

one other thing - i am refering to the original belts.
if you need to cut it or stretch it or configure it differently. then they are not the proper belts.!!
 
I was under the impression that I was referring to the original belts. Made by Unitta, correct? If I have the wrong part number for the original belt please let me know. I was under the impression that the 2XX 3GT X belt designation was the original belt.

P.S. The OEM belts are "cut" at the factory from a much wider belt, so I don't really understand where you're coming from. If you don't feel your skills are up to the task, let the distributor handle it. There should be no need to stretch the Misumi or York replacement belts.

Has anyone here actually tried either the York or Misumi belts? Until that point, I think one would be a bit presumptuous to say they won't work with absolute certainty. If I had a compatible wheel I'd have one on the way already.

Some people may not be comfortable disassembling their wheels due to lack of mechanical inclination or skill, but it really isn't that big of a deal for someone who works on their own stuff and pays a bit of attention to detail. I have already had my Elite apart pretty much down to individual pieces when replacing the FFB motors and put it back together and it works just like it did from new.
 
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Simracer92
but you know that first customers got their csw in mid july so the maximum is 7 months....?
Click to expand...


Whatever. It would be great reports from people who have had no problems.
As a product of 7 months can present many problems, with many people? I think in the history of a product simracing(wheel) never had so many problems as the CSW.

It would be nice to report that people are fully satisfied with the CSW.
 
Felipe Lourenco
Whatever. It would be great reports from people who have had no problems.
As a product of 7 months can present many problems, with many people? I think in the history of a product simracing(wheel) never had so many problems as the CSW.

It would be nice to report that people are fully satisfied with the CSW.
Click to expand...

well, I have my beta wheel since the end of March 2012 (so yes I have it for over 10 months now) and my base has had no big issues until today and it still feels very very good and only a PSU had to be changed during the time.
 
My new CSW is coming next week. I have been through 2 Elites already and decided to switch to the CSW on this wheel exchange. I am already planning all my mods though. I will be switching to a pair of Buhler motors and already have a belt wrap mod in mind as you can see in this pic:

BeltMod.jpg


Note the "belt" in the pic is just a wire wrapped in the same way the belt will be routed to give a better idea of what I am talking about.

I may be making a kit for anyone else interested. It should allow us to run a little bit less belt tension but not let the belts slip since they will be much further wrapped around the pulleys. It would come with the bearing and an aluminum shaft to mount it, along with a spacer tube so you can still leave the motor heat sink screw in place, and of course probably step by step photo instructions.

Also, for those who have never really seen them, here's a little better view of the stock FFB motors:

OEMotorBlock.jpg


OEMotorBlock2.jpg


And here's a comparison shot of one of the Buhler motors:

BuhlerVsOEM.jpg
 
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I wonder what those motors ended up costing you?

I might have to start looking to do this all myself. Haven't heard back from Thomas after I said I wanted parts instead of the service pack. *shrugs*
It's that I have my T500, but I had it when any of my things don't work anymore.


Edit:

Now I think of it. What an idiotic place to put that temperature sensor btw. How in gods name can you get a proper reading from both motors? This way you'll only know the temperature of the one it is closest to.
 
They go for about $120 apiece new, but I got them through a surplus place for $17 each. These are supposed to be excellent motors, Bühler makes the motors for pretty much every vending machine/ATM, etc.

And I agree wholeheartedly about the temp sensor placement. There should be one directly ON each motor, IMO.
 
Simracer92
well, I have my beta wheel since the end of March 2012 (so yes I have it for over 10 months now) and my base has had no big issues until today and it still feels very very good and only a PSU had to be changed during the time.
Click to expand...

Everytime I think about buying a CSW I think of these post from experienced owners. My T500 is almost a yr. old & no prob outside of a loud fan. Think I will wait until these bugs are worked out.
The BMW is really nice.
 
Very interested to see how this mod turns out ekretz.
My CSW was sent back to get the motors changed again, although these are newer better motors now. Hopefully they will hold up.
But I'm very keen to see how your project turns out.
 
Carson, the motors in my photos are a pair of "newer, better" motors. They sent them to me to replace a burned out motor on my Elite. They are exactly the same as the old motors. Supposedly, there was a bad "batch" of motors installed, made incorrectly by the motor supplier. I'm in the manufacturing field, and it's well known that most cheap items made in China are pretty much garbage, and the electric motor "ratings" especially are from the world of fantasy. For instance, an electric motor from a reputable US or German company of say 10HP is a beast, and will put out every bit of 10HP continuously even when run for hours. For years and years. Chinese electric motors are well known for not meeting their horsepower ratings except in perhaps short bursts. Take a look at the drive motors of some Harbor Freight or similar Chinese tooling vs. their quality contemporaries and you'll see what I mean.

If you google it there are plenty of sites with photos of disassembled motors showing how dinky the components are in the Chinese motors. Good motors are usually underrated, while Chinese motors are almost universally overrated. Many good manufacturers are having motors made in China now, but they are definitely forced to babysit the factories to make sure they don't start cutting corners and getting sloppy. This is why many of them send their own personnel from their home country to oversee the factories in China. There are exceptions, and not every single Chinese factory and manufacturer is garbage, but the quality ones are few and far between.

That being said, these "new" motors are still Chinese-made junk, and I have no confidence that they'll last for any significant length of time as they ought to. That's why I sought out the Buhler motors.

As far as the mods, I have been having a bit of back-and-forth with RacerXX about belt slippage and he's confident that the belt I am working on modifying the wrap for doesn't need the extra work, because his new wheel doesn't slip. He has however noted some slippage on the other belt. I am probably going to try to work something out for that one too, so we don't have to rely on ridiculous levels of belt tension to prevent slippage, I personally think it would still be beneficial to have the wrap increase on both belts, that way even as the belts start to wear a bit and get a little slicker, they will still have adequate grip.
 
eKretz
My new CSW is coming next week. I have been through 2 Elites already and decided to switch to the CSW on this wheel exchange. I am already planning all my mods though. I will be switching to a pair of Buhler motors and already have a belt wrap mod in mind as you can see in this pic:

BeltMod.jpg


Note the "belt" in the pic is just a wire wrapped in the same way the belt will be routed to give a better idea of what I am talking about.

I may be making a kit for anyone else interested. It should allow us to run a little bit less belt tension but not let the belts slip since they will be much further wrapped around the pulleys. It would come with the bearing and an aluminum shaft to mount it, along with a spacer tube so you can still leave the motor heat sink screw in place, and of course probably step by step photo instructions.

Also, for those who have never really seen them, here's a little better view of the stock FFB motors:

OEMotorBlock.jpg


OEMotorBlock2.jpg


And here's a comparison shot of one of the Buhler motors:

BuhlerVsOEM.jpg
Click to expand...

Where did you buy the motors Buhler motors?
 
eKretz
My new CSW is coming next week. I have been through 2 Elites already and decided to switch to the CSW on this wheel exchange. I am already planning all my mods though. I will be switching to a pair of Buhler motors.....

And here's a comparison shot of one of the Buhler motors:

BuhlerVsOEM.jpg
Click to expand...

Do you know the part # for the Buhler motor. The T500RS uses Buhler as well (1.13.044.236). The one on the T500RS is one huge motor- most definitely for a different purpose.
 
Felipe, I got my motors from surplusgizmos.com, they only had 5, and I ordered 2. However, one of the 2 they sent was broken, so they had to send another to replace it, so now they only have 2 left, if they didn't sell those already.

Mykem, the Buhler motor number is purposefully visible in the pic:1.13.046.401. These are discontinued, but made almost identical under the new number 1.13.046.404. However, new they are nearly $120 each.

The stock motor OD is 1.402" or 35.6mm (although they have a flux ring on the motor that is 1.492" or 37.9mm). My replacement motor OD is 1.572" or 39.9mm, and the T500's motor is 2.031" or 51.6mm.

The 1.13.046.401/404 are rated at 60mNm of torque, 45mNm continuous and 290mNm startup. (So in Fanatec's dual-motor config, you'd basically double those to 120mNm, 90mNm, and 580mNm). By using these motors, I should effectively be getting about the same strength as the T500, depending on the gear ratio difference.

The 1.13.044.236 are rated at 150mNm of torque, 100mNm continuous and 640mNm startup.
 
The infamous Japanese Fanatec modder fabbed up a belt wrap system for an Elite that was the same idea. It was hard to follow his blog (Google translate is only so good) but it didn't work.....it caused some sort of binding issue and he abandoned the idea.
 
eKretz
Felipe, I got my motors from surplusgizmos.com, they only had 5, and I ordered 2. However, one of the 2 they sent was broken, so they had to send another to replace it, so now they only have 2 left, if they didn't sell those already.

Mykem, the Buhler motor number is purposefully visible in the pic:1.13.046.401. These are discontinued, but made almost identical under the new number 1.13.046.404. However, new they are nearly $120 each.

The stock motor OD is 1.402" or 35.6mm (although they have a flux ring on the motor that is 1.492" or 37.9mm). My replacement motor OD is 1.572" or 39.9mm, and the T500's motor is 2.031" or 51.6mm.

The 1.13.046.401/404 are rated at 60mNm of torque, 45mNm continuous and 290mNm startup. (So in Fanatec's dual-motor config, you'd basically double those to 120mNm, 90mNm, and 580mNm). By using these motors, I should effectively be getting about the same strength as the T500, depending on the gear ratio difference.

The 1.13.044.236 are rated at 150mNm of torque, 100mNm continuous and 640mNm startup.
Click to expand...

$120 seems like an awful lot for the motors for the wheel. I can't find the email thomas sent me a few years ago, but he gave me the part number for the motors used in the tubro s wheel and they were only $3.
Wouldn't 2 775 RC motors that they use the the ofna truggy starter box be more then powerful enough? I have one of those starter boxes, and it is super strong. I haven't found a motor it won't turn over. It rips through brand new novarossi motors like they have 5 gallons already on them. I can't imagine needing to pay that much for motors when some of the RC motors are super strong for alot less money then that.

You could even get a super strong brushless 1/8 scale electric motor for around that price. I really don't know what their torque ratings are though and can't seem to find them anywhere.

I just looked up the motors you bought and they do 3700 RPM, the orion MR8 does 29,000 RPM. They have to have alot of torque, they can make an 8 pound RC car go from 0-40mph in less then 2 seconds. There is no way you can hold the wheels from turning on one of them, it would break your fingers. Those motors are $135 though, but you could go much cheaper then that and just get some ofna 775 motors or something. Thy're only about $30.

I may be wrong about all of this though, but I know thomas said he was using RC car motors in the turbo s wheel and I couldn't believe how cheap they were when I looked them up.
 
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No, Bevo, the motors you're talking about are wound for high current draw from batteries. They would fry the controller board in the wheel mighty quick if they were able to draw the current they're meant to. The 775's are very beastly though. I have no idea what kind of current the board in the wheel is capable of supplying, but it would probably be so little compared to what the 775's would want that they'd be very weak.

I know they are really expensive, but they're built like a Mack truck. Like I said, I didn't pay $120, I only paid $17. I wouldn't have got them if I had to buy them new.


Edit: Found a spec sheet for the 775:
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-bin/catalog/e_catalog.cgi?CAT_ID=rs_775vcwc

Holy Crap! Look at that amp draw at stall: 130 amps! And still~19A no load.

Brushless are not an option right now without major mods because the controller in the wheel isn't compatible with them.


Hawk, do you have a link to the Japanese guy's page? I'm interested in seeing it. I don't know how there could be a problem unless he screwed something up with positioning.
 
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thehawk05
The infamous Japanese Fanatec modder fabbed up a belt wrap system for an Elite that was the same idea. It was hard to follow his blog (Google translate is only so good) but it didn't work.....it caused some sort of binding issue and he abandoned the idea.
Click to expand...

the problem he encountered was a loss of feedback precision of the force feedback due to added rolling resistance from added turning of the belts from a small radius.
it is normal for this to happen when introducing more turns to a belt system
 
Whew, just did a quick 24V (actual 25.6V) break-in on the Bühlers. They've got quite a lot more torque than the OE motors. With the OE motors running at 25.6V I was able to stall the motor just by gripping the motor pulley between my bare thumb and finger and gradually increasing pressure. The motors ran at no load at ~4300RPM at about .06 amps, and stalled were pulling 3.0 amps. The Bühlers ran at no load at ~4200RPM at about .15 amps and stalled pulled about 4.0 amps or a tad more. I found it quite difficult to stall them. They have spur gears on the shaft about the same diameter as the OE motor pulleys. First I tried with gloves and my fingers. No go. I ended up using a block of wood like a lever brake to stall them, and I had to push with darn near all my strength. Should be a significant improvement.

Also, as far as the Bühler motors go, if you are really interested in this mod, check out the surplus places online and eBay, as they show up from time to time. There's one on eBay right now but IIRC they are looking for $75 or so for it. The nice thing about this motor is its rated nearly identical to the OE motors at current draw and RPM, so it shouldn't overload the boards and it will be able to develop its full torque.
 
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Anyone notice that Thomas flip flopped again on the f1 wheel being the final csr-e rim.

http://911wheel.de/?q=node/9547#comment-27162
It looks like reactions are

Submitted by Thomas on Sat, 02/09/2013 - 17:57.
It looks like reactions are quite mixed and this is hard to understand.

The difference in specs between CSW and CSRE has been published before the release of the CSR E on our website -> comparison chart
The electronics of the CSRE are completely different. A QR like in the CSW is simply not possible.
A wheel rim can only have the same electronic functions as the original wheel rim. The CSRE has many restrictions over the CSW
The Formula rim is the most popular choice for the CSW and therefore we have chosen this rim to be the first rim for CSR E.
A GT rim is fully develoed and ready for production but production will only start if the sales of the Formula rim are succesful enough.
I cannot give you any information about next gen consoles as we are under NDA
 
I wouldn't call that flip flopping. That's quite normal for tech company. If I were running the place, I'd too have many prototypes ready to deploy at a moments notice. That doesn't mean I will.
I once heard a particular musician came up with 300 songs, and narrowed it down to only 30 songs for his album. I forgot who it was.
 
Interesting how? It's pretty standard for companies developing new products to force their vendors to sign NDA's that prevent them from discussing any info they are made privy to. It sucks, but I understand where Thomas is coming from on that one.
 
Interesting because it indicates that they are working on something next gen.
Everyone knows that PlayStation are to make an announcement on the 20th, and most are sure its next gen.
It wouldn't surprise me if it was official compatibility with Fanatec
 

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