Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out
- Thread starter Crispy
- 13,388 comments
- 1,339,760 views
- 1,495
True, I have been eyeing the SRH dash (iirc, the price to get the SRH unit here in the north america is ~$425 total), but the price and shipping have stopped me from 'pulling the trigger.' the DSD design of sepearate units and lower price have piqued my interest.
- 2,801
- fatkrakr
I think My CSW motors are shot. 
The FF in game just doesnt feel as strong as it did a few days ago. Not sure when it happened. I didnt notice any difference the last time I raced, took a few days off and today the wheel just dont feel right. Its not smooth when I turn the wheel against the FF and I get a large lump like feeling at a certain spot when turning the wheel. Anything I can do to be sure its the motors and not just me? Thanks for any help.
The FF in game just doesnt feel as strong as it did a few days ago. Not sure when it happened. I didnt notice any difference the last time I raced, took a few days off and today the wheel just dont feel right. Its not smooth when I turn the wheel against the FF and I get a large lump like feeling at a certain spot when turning the wheel. Anything I can do to be sure its the motors and not just me? Thanks for any help.
- 577
- NC
I think My CSW motors are shot.
A fish scale test against a steering angle stop (such as Sens set to 90)should show about 12 pounds when hooked at a spoke at the rim ID for a CSR-E sized wheel. With a CSW just convert that to about 4 lb-ft at your test distance. Also try varying some of the wheel settings. There should not be lumps in certain spots. But things like dead zone and linearity etc can give some of that effect as you move off center if not set very well.
- 2,801
- fatkrakr
Dont have a fish scale, but Im 99% positive I have a bad motor. Jumped in the vette on iracing and the wheel feels dead. I can feel the FF, but it is way to weak compared to what it used to be. Plus the wheel when set to SEN. 90 and I turn the wheel against the FF it isnt smooth. Sent off the email so will see how it goes. Hopefully all goes well.
- 577
- NC
Yeah first thing I'd try with loose "dead" motors is to clean the brush/commutators. If you have a motor that is alive/dead/alive/dead as it turns, that is the likely issue.
I have cleaned a few of these motors by running them at low voltage while submerged in water/alcohol. Heat shield and flux shield removed so that the vents in the can are exposed. About 5 minutes in each direction. All sorts of black debris comes out…and then the motor runs better. If the motor(s) is/are too far gone then this won't work. The commutators would then need to be turned on a lathe. That is easy to do, however it is hard to open the motors without destruction.
When you get you new motors, try turning them by hand and listening to them up close. My CSR-E (new in January) would squeak. This turned out to be the new brushes. I ran them for a few days and this did not help. It would eventually go away though, I know this from experience.
Rather than waiting I broke them in under water (out of the wheel base LOL). Voila, silence. The water helps clear brush debris as it forms. And a wet sanding effect takes place leading to smooth brush to commutator contact. I'd consider doing this if your new motors squeak and this bothers you.
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
If I were you fatkrakr, I'd do the water break-in even on the new motors. I ran one without break-in on a power supply and it ran like crap until I did the water break-in. It could help your new motors last longer and will definitely make them smoother. See this thread:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=274631&page=11
I use reverse osmosis water for mine just to be safe, if you have high mineral content water you can mess up your brushes. Deionized or distilled will also work. Just dry them out using a hair dryer or similar when finished and then re-oil the shaft at the bushings.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=274631&page=11
I use reverse osmosis water for mine just to be safe, if you have high mineral content water you can mess up your brushes. Deionized or distilled will also work. Just dry them out using a hair dryer or similar when finished and then re-oil the shaft at the bushings.
- 92
- GTP_Pooks
I have been watching these threads with great interest- especially the modders one.
I would definitely look at breaking in my new motors (and even try to fix my dead ones) using the "water" method, but think maybe a video of how to do it is required for the average user. Eg. I have no experience with motors, and submersing them in water sounds totally wrong lol
Also, seeing exactly which part to oil etc would be great.
I would definitely look at breaking in my new motors (and even try to fix my dead ones) using the "water" method, but think maybe a video of how to do it is required for the average user. Eg. I have no experience with motors, and submersing them in water sounds totally wrong lol
Also, seeing exactly which part to oil etc would be great.
- 2,801
- fatkrakr
This was pretty much my thinking also. Im all for make the motors last as long as possible, but running them in water is above my level of knowledge.
- 4,182
- Ottawa
+1:tup:
- 4,182
- Ottawa
Thank you Logiforce, just a question?
What would the issue be just to plug the motor to a battery, let us say 12 volts battery for example.
What would the issue be just to plug the motor to a battery, let us say 12 volts battery for example.
- 611
- Aliso Viejo, CA
- Renown787B
Why is there a need to break in these motors for a wheel application? In RC racing racers broke in Mabuchi motors because the brushes inside were in the shape of a "C" as it touched the commutator. The more contact patch you can place on the "comm" the more torque and RPM you may get. The downside to this practice is motor longevity. As a R/C racer who cares. You want to win, but aren't sim racers looking for reliability and longevity?
I can't wait till there's a wheel released on the market with brushless motor technology. In RC racing it has solved so many issues...at a price though
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Cote you could do that but it takes much longer and the debris doesn't get cleaned out like the water method does.
Break-in is necessary to seat the brushes properly and make sure full contact with the commutator is obtained. If done right it won't reduce life of the motor, quite the inverse actually in the case of these motors. The uneven brush contact when new under high current/torque might be part of the wear problem. Break-in allows current to be evenly applied across the full surface of the brush so under high current/torque situations one doesn't unevenly wear the brushes and comm. it can also reduce heat.
Break-in is necessary to seat the brushes properly and make sure full contact with the commutator is obtained. If done right it won't reduce life of the motor, quite the inverse actually in the case of these motors. The uneven brush contact when new under high current/torque might be part of the wear problem. Break-in allows current to be evenly applied across the full surface of the brush so under high current/torque situations one doesn't unevenly wear the brushes and comm. it can also reduce heat.
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- 577
- NC
Why is there a need to break in these motors for a wheel application? In RC racing racers broke in Mabuchi motors because the brushes inside were in the shape of a "C" as it touched the commutator. The more contact patch you can place on the "comm" the more torque and RPM you may get. The downside to this practice is motor longevity. As a R/C racer who cares. You want to win, but aren't sim racers looking for reliability and longevity?
I can't wait till there's a wheel released on the market with brushless motor technology. In RC racing it has solved so many issues...at a price though
Mabuchi brushes have three prongs on them. They ride against a smallish diameter commutator. Brand new, some like mine squeak at first. By breaking the motors in, the brushes "mate" with the commutator. So that they better fit one another and develop compatible wear characteristics. This helps the signal sent to the motor better result in the desired wheel reaction. It helps motor life, not hurts it.
Brushless sim wheel motors could be done, sure. But BL motors are sometimes unhappy at the 0 to very low RPM ranges our wheel motors use. And of course the controllers are completely different. Often a BL motor has less from-0-RPM torque than a brushed motor, and it may not behave equally in both directions. So there would need to be a development effort and the motor sizing for instance might need to be a bit larger and some low-cogging changes made.
- 4,182
- Ottawa
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Ahh, sorry. My mistake. You can connect it to a battery, but if there is any problem you get a self-destruct pretty rapidly. The point of doing it the way he did was to limit the amperage delivered to the motor in case of an uh-oh. Especially when using a dirty used or oily motor you can add to the conductivity of the water and cause a problem. If you use a new motor in reverse osmosis or distilled/deionized water you should be ok. I also didn't let it run for 20 minutes. I used my bench power supply and just slowly turned up the voltage. I started at 6v for 1 min. then 12, 24, 30, 36 for ~30 seconds each. I only ran mine for about 3 minutes, but also in both directions for 6 minutes total.
Even running on a battery at set voltage you will get most if not all of the benefit. Do run both directions though. I'd recommend running at 12V if you don't have variable voltage capability.
Even running on a battery at set voltage you will get most if not all of the benefit. Do run both directions though. I'd recommend running at 12V if you don't have variable voltage capability.
- 4,182
- Ottawa
- 577
- NC
Also note that the video involves RC motors. They use fewer turns of larger diameter wire for their coils. Which leads to much greater current flow, especially as any load is added. By comparison the high wind / thin wire motors sim wheels run are much, much safer to run under water. They draw less current, in inherently as they have much greater electrical resistance . And they don't get as dirty or oily as RC motors. The reason different coil winds are used for sim wheels is to optimize them for low RPM torque instead of high RPM zap.
- 611
- Aliso Viejo, CA
- Renown787B
The brushless motors and ESC's (controllers) we're using in RC right now have sensors to control forward and reverse. Sensored BL motors also have a much better RPM control at low voltage input. However, these ESC and motors alone cost more. In any case, I see what you mean. The sim wheel application is very different. Maybe a RC ESC company can help figure it out someday
- 2,801
- fatkrakr
Recieved a reply from Fanatec this morning about my CSW. They gave me the choice to recieve the motorblock and replace them myself or send the wheel to be repaired. I opted to fix it myself. Not very happy about the CSW failing, but the response time and how they are handling it so far, I cant ask for more.
Quick question for you guys, how will I know if I need to reverse the wires on the new motors or not? Can I just look at the old one and know? Thanks for the help.
Quick question for you guys, how will I know if I need to reverse the wires on the new motors or not? Can I just look at the old one and know? Thanks for the help.
- 3,239
- New York
- thepatriots
Fantatec RennSport Cockpit V2 now available.
Pictures:
*Base
Seat options:
Fanatec RS Seat
Fanatec Sparco Pro 2000 Seat
Fanatec Sparco R333 Seat
(Nice!)
Accessories
Sound Holder
Single Monitor Mount
Triple Monitor Mount
Shifter Holder
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- 1,326
- SC
Any more words lately about new rims being drawn up? (Especially waiting to hear anything on Generic F1 or Liscensed F1)
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