Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

  • Thread starter Crispy
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LogiForce
Oh come on. Physically the thing is a lot better in terms of performance, and you know it.
The firmware based deadzone and rattling of those Logitechs just sucks.

If Fanatec would make an SDK and remove the emulation, you would lose compatibility with older games which did not incorporate a Fanatec SDK into their games.

I know you hate Fanatec and have your valid reasons, though please stay a bit reasonable.
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Right. Valid points are one thing. Bashing for no reason is just silly. Nothing is lost by Fanatec emulating the Logitech gear, and backward compatibility to a lot of titles is gained. Where's the negative exactly?

When you get down to it, every FFB wheel is a ring of metal/plastic or whatever (the wheel) connected to a drivetrain of one sort or another, and attached to one or two drive motors. No matter what you do with the rest of the hardware, a motor can only rotate in 2 directions, at an infinite number of speeds and force levels determined by applied voltage and amperage. (this is limited by software to many less levels, of course). Bottom line is that the motors are pretty simple items, and it doesn't take complex software to make them spin, so who cares what they do, as long as it works. Which it does, and well. As long as the motors don't burn up!! :lol:

If there's something that Fanatec users are missing by not having specific drivers, etc. I sure haven't missed it yet. Maybe someone who has used both (Jogo?) can elaborate and let us know how it's different feeling to drive on a wheel with a specific SDK made for GT5?
 
Mahnegold
Logi, that you are in "bean counter mood" today was obvious some posts above. But what about your ability to notice irony? Is it on vacation today? ;-)
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I did notice the irony, but I also notice why the choices were made. Though that doesn't make a lack for a PS3 SDK, and possibly one for the new generation consoles an okay thing at all.
So don't get me wrong, I still think that they should have made efforts to make a PS3 SDK when they first released their Porsche wheels. And yes, they are way too late in the game and are behind the facts when it comes to the software end of things for the PS3. As well as the new generation it seems.
After all it's not without reason that Thrustmaster already has been developing a new wheel for the Xbox One to be used with Forza 5.
 
I think Thrustmaster has just started working on a wheel and what we seen at E3 was a T500 running on pc. Its well known that many games run on pc at game shows like that to demo early builds.
 
So, if Fanatec decided to buy their way on to the PS3, would the wheels then operate in both pc (official) and ps3 (Logitech) modes if a game supported both Logitech and Fanatec wheels? In that case we would get a tasty comparison.
 
LeMansAid
So, if Fanatec decided to buy their way on to the PS3, would the wheels then operate in both pc (official) and ps3 (Logitech) modes if a game supported both Logitech and Fanatec wheels? In that case we would get a tasty comparison.
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That technically could happen, if they decide to keep backwards compatibility for that platform as I mentioned earlier.
They could also decide to drop the 'ps3 mode' altogether and just continue on with their SDK. However, I do not expect old games to get patches just to include their SDK. So that would mean a lot of sad gamers, which might force them to reinclude the 'ps3 mode' again in their firmware.
 
The "G emulation mode" was always a good idea for compatibility woes. Then of course adding all the Fanatec wheel user options on top is what helped make Fanatec wheels unique.

I wonder did Fanatec have to secure royalties or an agreement with Logitech to be able to "emulate their product"? Was the reason not to have a proper PS license ever been explained? Then again it seems if Fanatec had compatibility ensured then they didn't really need official licensing, what you reckon guys?


I remember SHIFT2 released not long after T500RS appeared and it was one of the titles that didn't offer FFB. Talk about a mess, eh. Thrustmaster had an official licensed wheel that didn't have full proper support with developers at the time. Yet the Fanatec wheels had no licence but no problem with the FFB with its emulation. Makes you wonder how/why Thrustmaster didn't have to ensure full compatibility with traditional FFB coding previous games used.

It highlighted perhaps the policies Playstation has that the T500RS had compatibility issues even though it was an "official product" until developers added the new support it required. This I believe appeared with Dirt 3 and then most/all racing games since on PS3.
 
The "less than full" PS3 support of the T500/TH8 has always been frustrating. I think it was because it was kind of "out of the blue" when it released, as in, no one had any idea what it was until it showed up in the Options menu on GT5.
 
Going through the. QuickStart guide reveals they've made some nice changes to it.

The wheel plate is drilled for all Fanatec, Logitech G25/27 and Thrustmaster T500 wheels.

The base allows hard mounting of at least Clubsport pedals.

The stand also comes with a shifter plate to mount Matching shifters for the wheels above.

Pretty sweet for $90

http://us.fanatec.com/download/QG_CSL-WheelStand.pdf
 
Looks more lightweight than the Rennsport, but hey, the price is right. I used my RWS for years, it's a tank. 3 wheels later it's still as good as new!
 
thehawk05
The base allows hard mounting of at least Clubsport pedals.
Click to expand...

Ingenious method used for clamping the CSPs to the RWS, know I have seen that concept applied somewhere before...

Nice to see this implemented now on the new version of the RWS, will add value for the CSP users for sure.
Would loved to have had this available on my old RWS, could have saved me lots of work.
 
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Start the GT6 demo download before leaving to job, knowing that I will do some overtime this evening :S

Does anybody tried the demo with a Fanatec wheel ?
 
Mr Latte
I wonder did Fanatec have to secure royalties or an agreement with Logitech to be able to "emulate their product"?
Click to expand...

It is very interesting situation, especially in light how actual force feedback and wheel SDK technology Logitech is using for their models (DFP, DFGT, G25, G27...) is not their own technology, but licensed as part of TouchSense FFB SDK owned and patented by Immersion Co.

What is part of "Logitech SDK" are actual "PS-mode" libraries that allows Logitech models to be used by PS2/PS3 consoles and properly recognized through HID/USB.

But on top of it there is issue with TouchSense, which is far more interesting IMO

Mr Latte
Was the reason not to have a proper PS license ever been explained? Then again it seems if Fanatec had compatibility ensured then they didn't really need official licensing, what you reckon guys?
Click to expand...

I think it is part related to "Logitech SDK/PS mode" where even G25/G27 models by Logitech were never actually licensed for PlayStation usage, but they somehow were compatible and later even given official recognition by console in various games. I *presume* it is part of the TouchSense relationship that lays in the triangle of Immersion Company > Sony > Logitech, but we can't know for sure.

Mr Latte
I remember SHIFT2 released not long after T500RS appeared and it was one of the titles that didn't offer FFB. Talk about a mess, eh. Thrustmaster had an official licensed wheel that didn't have full proper support with developers at the time.
Click to expand...

It was because T500RS actually do not use TouchSense SDK - as almost ALL OTHERS PS2/PS3 wheels were (are) using, but it is using its own proprietary SDK (closely related to HEART BIOS), so developers had to actually implement new SDK in their games before T500RS could be used. Logitech wheels have been supported by default (and Fanatec with them) because TouchSense SDK has been supported by PS2/PS3 games as wheel-related HID/USB SDK for more then 12 years now.

Mr Latte
Yet the Fanatec wheels had no licence but no problem with the FFB with its emulation. Makes you wonder how/why Thrustmaster didn't have to ensure full compatibility with traditional FFB coding previous games used. It highlighted perhaps the policies Playstation has that the T500RS had compatibility issues even though it was an "official product" until developers added the new support it required. This I believe appeared with Dirt 3 and then most/all racing games since on PS3.
Click to expand...

Fanatec emulates already existing and implemented SDK, while T500RS introduced brand new SDK that had to be implemented into games, as explained above. Although it was "official wheel" on release in order to make it work, SDK had to be implemented. It was GT5 - of which T500RS is actually "official steering wheel" - that introduced support as first, DIRT 3 followed and other games later. I am not 100% sure (I do not have T500RS in my permanent ownership) but I think how some PS3 driving games actually do not support it even today (like Ferrari Challenge or even very recent release Test Drive :Ferrari Racing Legends, released in 2102).

Also, interesting details is how it was actually a Immersion Co. that prevented usage of TouchSense SDK and API libraries on PS3 in times of PS3 release because dispute it had with Sony regarding usage of their TouchSense patents for *powering* rumble and FFB effects in PS2 controllers and PS2 wheels back in PS2 era. If you remember, first PS3 controller - Sixasis - didn't have rumble and PS3 didn't even support FFB wheels back in time (both F1:CE and GT:HD demo didn't support FFB effects on wheels when released). Only after Sony solved dispute (it was multi-year trial) and paid astonishing royalties (121 million $) the rumble&FFB support were introduced on PS3 via update and with new DualShock3 controller.

Interesting subject nonetheless ;)
 
Im not very happy with my last go with Fanatec customer support. Everything went as usual with sending proof of purchase and a video. Choose the option to fix the wheel myself. Goes bad when I get the email about the part being shipped. At the very end of that email it says "if not recieved in 3 weeks contact support". That made me a bit skeptical and sent email to ask if they expect it to take 3 weeks and cant get any reply from them now. Sent 2 emails and its been 5 days with nothing from them no shipping info either. :grumpy:
 
K_Soze
Start the GT6 demo download before leaving to job, knowing that I will do some overtime this evening :S

Does anybody tried the demo with a Fanatec wheel ?
Click to expand...

Well, I just tried it and...

FFB is a tiny bit improved in the weight transfer area, but it is still it's the same old.

Physics wise, I found that the cars more controllable but body roll is exaggerated in my opinion.
The tyres have a much better slip angle now though, which made it a breeze to slide that 370Z around corners for me (I know it's not the quickest way around a corner).
Braking was nicely controllable for me, but there is no sense of the tyres reaching their limits. Which usually happens by squeal build up. So I guess the sound is the same old.
All it all it's basically GT 5 but than with icing on the cake.

In my opinion it's miles behind pCARS, rF2, iRacing, AC and so on in terms of physics though. By comparison I would say it's a nice Simcade that tips towards sim more than 'cade.
 
fatkrakr
Im not very happy with my last go with Fanatec customer support. Everything went as usual with sending proof of purchase and a video. Choose the option to fix the wheel myself. Goes bad when I get the email about the part being shipped. At the very end of that email it says "if not recieved in 3 weeks contact support". That made me a bit skeptical and sent email to ask if they expect it to take 3 weeks and cant get any reply from them now. Sent 2 emails and its been 5 days with nothing from them no shipping info either. :grumpy:
Click to expand...

I had a pretty good experience with Fanatec support on my TurboS. When I received it there was a couple of noises that should not have been there sounded like a wire touching a fan and there was also a high pitched noise coming from the wheel after it warmed up that was very annoying. After 1 lap around the ring the fans would turn on and the noises would start up. I contacted Fanatec and got what I guess is the usual response about a video and such which I did not have a way to create nor would it have been any need for it. I responded telling them as much and that I needed this to be made right.

After a few days I got an email from one of their support guys and I explained the problem and told him I would be willing to try to fix it myself so long as that would not void the warranty. He gave me instructions on how to open the wheel and access the Fans. I opened the wheel and found that there were 2 fans inside. The larger one had a wire that was to close and was barely rubbing on the bigger fan. Easy enough. Then I left the cover off and ran a race to try and see where the squeal was coming from. I found that the tiny fan must have had a defective bearing/bushing in it. I could touch the center where the spindle would be and the noise would stop.

So I contacted the same guy via email and he said they would send me a new fan if I wanted to install it myself or I could ship the wheel back for repair. I opted to install myself and had the new fan in a few days, wheel was fine after that.

I then started having issues with the pedals throttle not going to 100% brakes coming on sometimes by themselves [standard pedals] Once again I contacted the same buy who gave me permission to open the pedals up and try to locate the issue and I was able to get them working properly but only for a short while and the problem resurfaced. I repaired them again and a couple weeks later they stopped working completely. I sent another email and he offered to ship me a new set of pedals or give me credit toward the club sport pedal set. I should have taken the credit but I opted for a new set of pedals which of course started having the same issues after a short while. I repaired those as well and took the first set apart and discover why they had quit working and managed to repair those as well.

The Standard pedals were very difficult to assemble without something being loose or shifted inside which apparently was the biggest issue with them. after both sets starting having problems yet again I decided to modify them. I drilled some holes in the base and used zip ties to secure all the pots shaved down the plastic on the cover to make the room for the zip ties and then cut some larger holes in the cover so that it could be slipped over the pedals and easily assembled. I was sure that would be a permanent fix but after a few weeks I started seeing issues again.

Eventually I ordered a set of CS pedals and they work great for almost 2 years now.

Anyway the support guy was very helpful along the way and I should have bought the CS pedal set at the beginning. Trying to save a few bucks ended up costing me $50 and a lot of aggravation along the way.
 
LogiForce
Well, I just tried it and...

FFB is a tiny bit improved in the weight transfer area, but it is still it's the same old.

Physics wise, I found that the cars more controllable but body roll is exaggerated in my opinion.
The tyres have a much better slip angle now though, which made it a breeze to slide that 370Z around corners for me (I know it's not the quickest way around a corner).
Braking was nicely controllable for me, but there is no sense of the tyres reaching their limits. Which usually happens by squeal build up. So I guess the sound is the same old.
All it all it's basically GT 5 but than with icing on the cake.

In my opinion it's miles behind pCARS, rF2, iRacing, AC and so on in terms of physics though. By comparison I would say it's a nice Simcade that tips towards sim more than 'cade.
Click to expand...

I feel exactly the same, pretty much verbatim.
 
fatkrakr
Im not very happy with my last go with Fanatec customer support. Everything went as usual with sending proof of purchase and a video. Choose the option to fix the wheel myself. Goes bad when I get the email about the part being shipped. At the very end of that email it says "if not recieved in 3 weeks contact support". That made me a bit skeptical and sent email to ask if they expect it to take 3 weeks and cant get any reply from them now. Sent 2 emails and its been 5 days with nothing from them no shipping info either. :grumpy:
Click to expand...

Call the number in Germany during office ours.
 
LogiForce
Well, I just tried it and...

FFB is a tiny bit improved in the weight transfer area, but it is still it's the same old.

Physics wise, I found that the cars more controllable but body roll is exaggerated in my opinion.
The tyres have a much better slip angle now though, which made it a breeze to slide that 370Z around corners for me (I know it's not the quickest way around a corner).
Braking was nicely controllable for me, but there is no sense of the tyres reaching their limits. Which usually happens by squeal build up. So I guess the sound is the same old.
All it all it's basically GT 5 but than with icing on the cake.

In my opinion it's miles behind pCARS, rF2, iRacing, AC and so on in terms of physics though. By comparison I would say it's a nice Simcade that tips towards sim more than 'cade.
Click to expand...

Can i ask what fanatec wheel you are using? I am using a Csr Elite I cannot get the gt6 demo to recognize the wheel when trying to play the game, whenever i press a button or a pedal the writing comes up in the left hand bottom corner saying that something is happening but nothing does. Driving me insane haha.
 
midjetv888
Can i ask what fanatec wheel you are using? I am using a Csr Elite I cannot get the gt6 demo to recognize the wheel when trying to play the game, whenever i press a button or a pedal the writing comes up in the left hand bottom corner saying that something is happening but nothing does. Driving me insane haha.
Click to expand...

I am using the Clubsport Wheel in PS3 mode (hold start+select button after wheel boot up).
So I think you'll need to put that CSR Elite in PS3 mode as well. ;)

Watch the video on how to use the CSR Elite on the PS3 (hold back+select button)




ps. Welcome to GTplanet, I noticed that was your first post. :)
 
I am using the CSR-E with the GT6 Demo without an issue. I selected the G27 for button emulation. Everything is the same as with GT5 as far as I can tell.
 
LogiForce
I am using the Clubsport Wheel in PS3 mode (hold start+select button after wheel boot up).
So I think you'll need to put that CSR Elite in PS3 mode as well. ;)

Watch the video on how to use the CSR Elite on the PS3 (hold back+select button)




ps. Welcome to GTplanet, I noticed that was your first post. :)
Click to expand...


Cheers, I was putting the wheel in ps3 mode. I can scroll through the menus fine its only once i hit the track that everything stops working.
 
RReed43
I am using the CSR-E with the GT6 Demo without an issue. I selected the G27 for button emulation. Everything is the same as with GT5 as far as I can tell.
Click to expand...

Sorry but how do you select the g27 emulation? i can find all the different wheels in the controller menu but i can't really select one?
 

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