Fanatec Announcements: CSW V2 Reviews Out

[Simmpa]

But why did I choose a CSR Elite ? Whyyyyyyy ?

I personally don´t get why anyone would waste alot of money on a wheel to play a kiddie game with rewind feature and wich is primary made for regular controllers and not serious sim equipment. And when there´s also that serious flaw of compability with the newer generation wich we knew was almost around the corner in 2011, on PC you can play really old sims with brand new wheels with no problem. I gotta say RBR felt like a very different game with the T500, now looking at these new rims from Fanatec still don´t make me feel regret that I choosed the T500 since they are very expensive and I hate alcantara after experienced it with the Porsche 911 GT2 wheel.

 

[K_Soze]

I personally don´t get why anyone would waste alot of money on a wheel to play a kiddie game with rewind feature and wich is primary made for regular controllers and not serious sim equipment. And when there´s also that serious flaw of compability with the newer generation wich we knew was almost around the corner in 2011, on PC you can play really old sims with brand new wheels with no problem. I gotta say RBR felt like a very different game with the T500, now looking at these new rims from Fanatec still don´t make me feel regret that I choosed the T500 since they are very expensive and I hate alcantara after experienced it with the Porsche 911 GT2 wheel.

I am a game dev so I like to try different sims. Of course nothing comes close from what rFactor2 does when it is about FFB and tire model, Assetto Corsa is nice too, but I can enjoy GT6 or FM too. The perfect combo will be rFactor2 physics, AC UI, pCars graphics, GT content and lighting art director

 

[Caz]

Its about enjoyable.experiences. it doesnt have to be a perfect sim to make it more enjoyable with a whee, as long as its more fun.

Hell ive been saying forever that i wish i could.have my wheel and pedals mapped for jeeps,trucks and quads playing battlefield on console, and.the pedals set for tank treads.

Rewind feature is not available online anyway so thats a moot point. I habe never played forza or owned an xbox console so im not defending it, just responding to your condescending post. Way to make the guy feel great about his purchase.

 

[dzidza]

I don't understand the hate towards rewind feature, it's more educational then racing line, and serves better purpose, sorry for the offtopic.

@K_Soze i am in the same boat, bought Elite as I didn't have more money to get CSW, and now I'm desperately waiting on information whether Fanatec (ELITE) will be supported on PS4. If not, i'll sell it and go for T500RS.

 

[Fanatec...]

I always love to play Forza and with a great wheel it is even more fun. And just because a simulation or game is more easy to drive it does not mean it is less realistic. Driving some simulations is way more difficult than real racing so does that make it realistic? Forza and GT are great to learn driving and have fun and even Flatout feels right.

I love the immersion and anything I touch with my hands or feet should feel as close as possible to the real thing. This is why our Clubsport series does not look or feel like a plastic toy. No matter how serious you want to look at it.

Thomas

 

[dzidza]

@Fanatec Thomas when can we expect update regarding PS4 compatibility?

 

[K_Soze]

I still love my CSR Elite, but if I have to change my wheel, I would love to switch for a Fanatec Direct Drive Wheel Thomas. I understand that the market for such a product is definitely smaller because of the price of servo motors but once you have driven a CSR Elite or Clubsport, you realize how better it is when coming from a G25. So a direct drive wheel should be a big step better : minimal input lag, higher torque/friction ratio. The Elite/CSW is a very clever way to get a no too expensive very smooth wheel, but belts are a nightmare to tune (tension means friction but low tension means slippage). Leo Bodnar wheel is said to be a "game changer", but without the accessibility of Fanatec products. I hope Fanatec will have the money to try something

 

[Mohamu]

Hi guys,

I've already connected Fanatec's support, but till I get any response I decided to ask you, maybe you've got an idea what can be the problem of my CSW base. I use it with the BMW rim with PC. My problem is that the FFB start to get weaker and weaker after a bit of using. Doesn't depend of the sim I use (rf2,AC,iR). At the moment I start up my wheel, the FFB is really strong and precise, but after about 30-40 min of racing it starts to be weaker and weaker and sticky, and it almost disappear after 30-40 mins. I use the FF on 100 and FOR on 100. Everything else is on 0. I thought it has some temperature problem, but the air is comming from the base is not so hot, I would call it normal.

(I use my base with the latest FW and driver)

Thank you for every comment

 

[fatkrakr]

Hi guys,

I've already connected Fanatec's support, but till I get any response I decided to ask you, maybe you've got an idea what can be the problem of my CSW base. I use it with the BMW rim with PC. My problem is that the FFB start to get weaker and weaker after a bit of using. Doesn't depend of the sim I use (rf2,AC,iR). At the moment I start up my wheel, the FFB is really strong and precise, but after about 30-40 min of racing it starts to be weaker and weaker and sticky, and it almost disappear after 30-40 mins. I use the FF on 100 and FOR on 100. Everything else is on 0. I thought it has some temperature problem, but the air is comming from the base is not so hot, I would call it normal.

(I use my base with the latest FW and driver)

Thank you for every comment

We all suffer from the same issue. It is because the motors used cannot take sustained FFB for that amount of time. Some people notice the fade more than others, but we all suffer from it. Fanatecs response in the past has been its normal and to turn down your FFB. We have asked if there are plans to offer an upgrade for the motors, but thus far no response. Its unfortunate, but it seems we are kinda stuck with a very expensive wheel that is very nice for the first half hour, after that you either have to take a break or turn it off and walk away.

 

[Mohamu]

We all suffer from the same issue. It is because the motors used cannot take sustained FFB for that amount of time. Some people notice the fade more than others, but we all suffer from it. Fanatecs response in the past has been its normal and to turn down your FFB. We have asked if there are plans to offer an upgrade for the motors, but thus far no response. Its unfortunate, but it seems we are kinda stuck with a very expensive wheel that is very nice for the first half hour, after that you either have to take a break or turn it off and walk away.

Thomas, can you please refer to this? Is it true, this is the "normal" way my base have to operate, and the solution is to turn down the FFB? I really hope not..

 

[bumer]

We all suffer from the same issue. It is because the motors used cannot take sustained FFB for that amount of time. Some people notice the fade more than others, but we all suffer from it. Fanatecs response in the past has been its normal and to turn down your FFB. We have asked if there are plans to offer an upgrade for the motors, but thus far no response. Its unfortunate, but it seems we are kinda stuck with a very expensive wheel that is very nice for the first half hour, after that you either have to take a break or turn it off and walk away.

How do you expect them to resolve this? eKretz and others who use more power motors, use airpumps to get sufficient cooling. Do you think that Fanatec could use some space grade technology that cools like liquid nitrogen to have no fade and only uses 1 cubic centimetre or so space. Probably impossible in current wheel configuration. It is possible to reduce it, but not remove it without some bigger cooling system in my opinion.

 

[Cote Dazur]

@Mohamu, all wheel suffer from fade, it is the nature off the motor that we are all using, as the temperature raise if you do not limit the power to the motors, it will burn. It is not specific to the CSW or Fanatec product. it is more noticeable on some wheel than other, I will even suggest that the better the feedback is felt in a wheel the more noticeable it will be, seems logical.
a design with a single big direct drive might alleviate this issue, hard to say right now as almost no one as one. Cooling the motors like EKretz suggest might be a better solution, a lot less costly and you get to keep your beloved wheel. Sort of have your cake and eat it too.

 

[paskowitz]

It's pretty simple. Use a motor that is over powered, cap it at 70-80% max capacity, it stays cool, results are better and last longer.

 

[eKretz]

@Mohamu, all wheel suffer from fade, it is the nature off the motor that we are all using, as the temperature raise if you do not limit the power to the motors, it will burn. It is not specific to the CSW or Fanatec product. it is more noticeable on some wheel than other, I will even suggest that the better the feedback is felt in a wheel the more noticeable it will be, seems logical.
a design with a single big direct drive might alleviate this issue, hard to say right now as almost no one as one. Cooling the motors like EKretz suggest might be a better solution, a lot less costly and you get to keep your beloved wheel. Sort of have your cake and eat it too.

This is true, but Fanatec suffers more than most it seems, as they are pushing the motors farther beyond their rated power levels than other manufacturers. (i.e. T500 uses a motor that stalls unlimited at 12+amps and are only allowing the motor to pull something around 6'ish amps. The CSW/Elite on the other hand use a pair of motors that collectively stall at around 6 amps unlimited and run a 5 amp power supply. Especially once the motors start to age a bit, (or are defective) they tend to get hotter than when new, and this means the firmware in the wheel cuts power to the motors to prevent "runaway" heat increase. The felt power decrease is due to both issues - the natural and normal loss of power due to heat reducing the current carrying capability of the armature wire/magnetic fields and the firmware cutting power also to prevent motor self-destruction. The latter is the one doing most of the power robbing, however. @Mohamu - the stock cooling is quite abysmal for the amount of heat being put into the motors, that's why you don't feel any hot air coming out of the wheel by the fan. Anyone who doesn't believe me? Pull off a sidecover and touch the motor after you've been racing and the power feels weak - but make it quick so you don't get burned.

 

[eKretz]

It's pretty simple. Use a motor that is over powered, cap it at 70-80% max capacity, it stays cool, results are better and last longer.

Actually it needs to be capped within it's rated power level to not lose power. So you'd need to average the wattage to the motor(s) and get a motor rated for that wattage and then limit power to whatever percent of stall necessary to achieve that rating. Or you need additional cooling if you want to go higher than rated power. As an example, the Buhler motors are rated at 20 watts if I remember correctly, but we're running them at 100+ watts at stall. (This is not average however, remember that they spend a significant amount of time with hardly any current since we have straights on racetracks).

 

[fatkrakr]

How do you expect them to resolve this? eKretz and others who use more power motors, use airpumps to get sufficient cooling. Do you think that Fanatec could use some space grade technology that cools like liquid nitrogen to have no fade and only uses 1 cubic centimetre or so space. Probably impossible in current wheel configuration. It is possible to reduce it, but not remove it without some bigger cooling system in my opinion.

The other wheel manufactures seem to have figured it out, so I don't think its rocket science. Use a better motor and get better results.

 

[bumer]

The other wheel manufactures seem to have figured it out, so I don't think its rocket science. Use a better motor and get better results.

Well, that's why I said that it is possible to reduce it. I don't think that other wheel manufacturers have no fade at all, it's just less noticeable. Even in T500 thread, there are persons who add fans to their wheel to get better cooling.

 

[fatkrakr]

Well, that's why I said that it is possible to reduce it. I don't think that other wheel manufacturers have no fade at all, it's just less noticeable. Even in T500 thread, there are persons who add fans to their wheel to get better cooling.

Not trying to argue with you here, but they replaced them because of noise.

 

[fatkrakr]

Received a PM from Thomas,
"I can confirm that there will be no upgrade kit from our side but the latest motors will not break anymore."

 

[bumer]

Not trying to argue with you here, but they replaced them because of noise.

Most probably yes, but not all of them!

 

[LogiForce]

Not trying to argue with you here, but they replaced them because of noise.

Indeed. The original fans slowly become unbalanced after about 6-12 months of use, which slowly gets worse. This unbalance creates an annoying rattling noise.

Putting a new fan in a T500 is work you can do in 5 minutes. The replacement parts are pretty general things as they are general computer parts, so they are easy to come by. Which means its not the end of the world when the fan dies.
I put a Noctua fan in mine. Uses less power, quieter and more airflow as well as air pressure than the stock fan. A small upgrade from the original fan that is easy to do.
Besides, its hardly worth it to request yet another identical fan from Thrustmaster which has the same issues.

 

[mrbasher]

If that is a iPhone 5, the mounting holes don't appear to be using the standar

Received a PM from Thomas,
"I can confirm that there will be no upgrade kit from our side but the latest motors will not break anymore."

That sounds like a guarantee. Unfortunately, just like last time, nobody knows what kind of time frame "latest" refers to so it's basically meaningless.

Sadly, even the bad stuff like these motor issues are just part of Fanatec's marketting strategy. Good or bad, they feel all publicity is good publicity. I can't say I necessarily disagree with the effectiveness of the tactics... Look what Thomas did with their bare bones rim priced too high... He knew full well that it would cause a stir, which generates talk on forums. (free publicity)

Then shortly after, more realisitic options are shown, though little details. More posts on forums. Once the ball is rolling it takes on a life of its own.

This is nothing new and happens quite often in many product lines out there. Most college business and marketting classes teach such things and have for some time. We as consumers rarely realize it's happening when done properly. The advent of social media has certainly accelerated its effectiveness.

Oh, I forgot to mention. Based on the photo of the rim with iPhone sitting on it, the hole spacing looks to be less that 70mm. More like about 63-65mm. Bummer for people that wanted to buy their own rim to put on it.

 

[fatkrakr]

If that is a iPhone 5, the mounting holes don't appear to be using the standar


That sounds like a guarantee. Unfortunately, just like last time, nobody knows what kind of time frame "latest" refers to so it's basically meaningless.

Sadly, even the bad stuff like these motor issues are just part of Fanatec's marketting strategy. Good or bad, they feel all publicity is good publicity. I can't say I necessarily disagree with the effectiveness of the tactics... Look what Thomas did with their bare bones rim priced too high... He knew full well that it would cause a stir, which generates talk on forums. (free publicity)

Then shortly after, more realisitic options are shown, though little details. More posts on forums. Once the ball is rolling it takes on a life of its own.

This is nothing new and happens quite often in many product lines out there. Most college business and marketting classes teach such things and have for some time. We as consumers rarely realize it's happening when done properly. The advent of social media has certainly accelerated its effectiveness.

Oh, I forgot to mention. Based on the photo of the rim with iPhone sitting on it, the hole spacing looks to be less that 70mm. More like about 63-65mm. Bummer for people that wanted to buy their own rim to put on it.

I asked about the apparent failure of my current motors from the replacement wheel base I received in July 2013, but have yet to get a response.

 

[paskowitz]

Oh, I forgot to mention. Based on the photo of the rim with iPhone sitting on it, the hole spacing looks to be less that 70mm. More like about 63-65mm. Bummer for people that wanted to buy their own rim to put on it.

We can just make an adapter. Should be easy.

 

[eKretz]

If that is a iPhone 5, the mounting holes don't appear to be using the standar


That sounds like a guarantee. Unfortunately, just like last time, nobody knows what kind of time frame "latest" refers to so it's basically meaningless.

Sadly, even the bad stuff like these motor issues are just part of Fanatec's marketting strategy. Good or bad, they feel all publicity is good publicity. I can't say I necessarily disagree with the effectiveness of the tactics... Look what Thomas did with their bare bones rim priced too high... He knew full well that it would cause a stir, which generates talk on forums. (free publicity)

Then shortly after, more realisitic options are shown, though little details. More posts on forums. Once the ball is rolling it takes on a life of its own.

This is nothing new and happens quite often in many product lines out there. Most college business and marketting classes teach such things and have for some time. We as consumers rarely realize it's happening when done properly. The advent of social media has certainly accelerated its effectiveness.

Oh, I forgot to mention. Based on the photo of the rim with iPhone sitting on it, the hole spacing looks to be less that 70mm. More like about 63-65mm. Bummer for people that wanted to buy their own rim to put on it.

Their marketing tactic may have worked as far as garnering publicity but it also seems it angered a lot of people.

 

[LogiForce]

We can just make an adapter. Should be easy.

Why an adapter? Any Momo Mod-series wheel comes undrilled, and other brands sell undrilled wheels as well. So you can simply drill in the required bolt pattern using the original wheel as a template.

 

[oqvist]

Not trying to argue with you here, but they replaced them because of noise.

And cooling the stock fan never did it's job and mine failed after a few months.

 

[eKretz]

Why an adapter? Any Momo Mod-series wheel comes undrilled, and other brands sell undrilled wheels as well. So you can simply drill in the required bolt pattern using the original wheel as a template.

Obviously you can drill the pattern into a wheel with holes already in it too, but it might look a little funky.

 

[paskowitz]

Why an adapter? Any Momo Mod-series wheel comes undrilled, and other brands sell undrilled wheels as well. So you can simply drill in the required bolt pattern using the original wheel as a template.

Some people are not very good a poking holes in things...

 

[fatkrakr]

My guess would be Fanatec would keep the price of their rims just below what their name brand counterparts are selling for. So unless you must have that momo rim the Fanatec rim will be the better deal.