Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*
- Thread starter eKretz
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- Eric_J2358
Interesting. When I pulled mine apart they were interference fit everywhere. I had to use a small press. Must be that nice Chinese "quality" control. I hear you on the warranty, if it's something simple I will usually just take care of it myself too. Blatantly defective parts are different though, and IMO Fanatec should be made aware that there's a possible QC issue at the very least, so they can nip it in the bud.
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- Eric_J2358
I know they do, I've seen Thomas's name in the "who's viewing" area down at the bottom quite a few times. If you noticed, once I said hello, but he didn't answer. I still think it's important to bring it directly to their attention. Let's put it this way: if it were a product I was making, I would want to know directly and immediately if there was a problem.
As for the bearing installs, an oven works fine for heating up to install temp, stick to around 220°-250°F and the temper/hardness of the bearing wont be affected. Then you don't have to get your (non-stainless) bearings all wet. If you really want to heat the bearings in liquid you shouldn't use anything but clean oil. I use a toaster oven for all interference bearing fits that require heat. A freezer won't really help much on these bearings, they're too little to get much movement with a 35°-40°F delta. If you want to do that you need to get some dry ice or liquid nitrogen. The problem then is you have to watch out for condensation when you come out of the chill and into room temperature. On small stuff mostly it's just better to use a little press since the interference is so small.
As for the bearing installs, an oven works fine for heating up to install temp, stick to around 220°-250°F and the temper/hardness of the bearing wont be affected. Then you don't have to get your (non-stainless) bearings all wet. If you really want to heat the bearings in liquid you shouldn't use anything but clean oil. I use a toaster oven for all interference bearing fits that require heat. A freezer won't really help much on these bearings, they're too little to get much movement with a 35°-40°F delta. If you want to do that you need to get some dry ice or liquid nitrogen. The problem then is you have to watch out for condensation when you come out of the chill and into room temperature. On small stuff mostly it's just better to use a little press since the interference is so small.
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- Eric_J2358
LOL, you are exactly right, I have a sissy-armed girlfriend. Have to keep the regular freezer at ~20-25F or she can't scoop ice cream. I keep the deep freezer at 0 though (my ice cream is in there!). Still, not significant, even 75F delta only gets you about .0003" shrink max. If you heat to 235 you get more like .0007" and the condensation is usually not an issue with freezer temps so much as it is with dry ice or liquid nitrogen since the part warms up much faster when it's just been in the freezer. If you pull something out of liquid nitrogen you can actually end up with a layer of ice coating the part within a minute or so. But if using the freezer works for you, have at it!
What brand were the ceramic bearings you found?
What brand were the ceramic bearings you found?
I have been folowing this thread from the beginning thanks to you guys.
Just wanted to give a my info of the CSW wheel that I received few months ago.
The stock belts are Gates, 4 ribbed and 3 ribbed ( for motors )
The stock drag was about 450g on the F1 rim.I think that's not possible to go that crazy low as RacerXX on this CSW base( but who knows
), I will satisfy with 100g
I have ordered and received Optibelt belts as replacement for moding, and I must say they are much much softer and more flexible than stock gates, even without moding at all.I have grinded down the top rubber to the first layer of fabrics on the longer 3 ribbed belt, it's just a notch softer.Also I have found that the small bearing on the pulley is very loose in the housing.It's curently drying with Loctite 603 ( that I use for bearings that are loose in housings ) Will report what is the outcome.
The other mods that I did was drilling the holes in the stock motor mount to allow motors to breathe-cool ( not that advanced like seen in Japanese blog, just holes )
I don't know how much influence does it have, but it's better to allow the air to flow thru the motor windings than to cool the outside casing, which were heated by inside air.
And while testing with belt tensions the biggest influence I got while reading the graphs in wheel test, was adjusting the smaller belt (maybe because of the bearing play) To eliminate the slippage I had to turn the tension on the stock belts, which would cut the speed of the wheel from 300 to something like 270's.
Tommorow when Loctite dries up I will try the wheel with new belts ( slightly modified ) to see what is the outcome, hopping for best
Just wanted to give a my info of the CSW wheel that I received few months ago.
The stock belts are Gates, 4 ribbed and 3 ribbed ( for motors )
The stock drag was about 450g on the F1 rim.I think that's not possible to go that crazy low as RacerXX on this CSW base( but who knows
), I will satisfy with 100g I have ordered and received Optibelt belts as replacement for moding, and I must say they are much much softer and more flexible than stock gates, even without moding at all.I have grinded down the top rubber to the first layer of fabrics on the longer 3 ribbed belt, it's just a notch softer.Also I have found that the small bearing on the pulley is very loose in the housing.It's curently drying with Loctite 603 ( that I use for bearings that are loose in housings ) Will report what is the outcome.
The other mods that I did was drilling the holes in the stock motor mount to allow motors to breathe-cool ( not that advanced like seen in Japanese blog, just holes
)I don't know how much influence does it have, but it's better to allow the air to flow thru the motor windings than to cool the outside casing, which were heated by inside air.
And while testing with belt tensions the biggest influence I got while reading the graphs in wheel test, was adjusting the smaller belt (maybe because of the bearing play) To eliminate the slippage I had to turn the tension on the stock belts, which would cut the speed of the wheel from 300 to something like 270's.
Tommorow when Loctite dries up I will try the wheel with new belts ( slightly modified ) to see what is the outcome, hopping for best
- 36
- Sussex
Wow I just broke my old lap record in a FM4 effort by two seconds might have to try for a leaderboard result on my own account. More control with less distress at vital times due to steering response and a bit due to better braking via modified CSP V2s.
I am toying with the idea of making an ultra-low inertia wheel. I can modify one of my CSR GT style rims pretty easily. See all the mass low in the wheel? That can be reduced, or a Formula rim conversion performed. I will try some driving with more mass attached to my CSR-E wheel too.
Looking at that Im seeing the alu plate being used as a template to make a new plate from Carbon Fiber sheet. Id also be inclined to make the arms narrower to save more weight and improve the looks.
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- Eric_J2358
Great! Glad you decided to let them know. That could be part of the "clunking" issue that some people seem to have too, if there's enough play in that bearing it could easily come through to the wheel on reversals.
Regarding the carbon fiber: I have been contemplating grabbing some CF sheet from eBay and making my own GT wheel rather than buying a Sparco to use as a donor. I already have a nice Gast vacuum pump, but it would be a lot of work to make a nice mold. Not sure which way I want to go yet.
- 36
- Sussex
How did you make the rumble motor stronger? Its something I've been thinking about for a while. I also wonder about taking the signal that drives the rumble motors and somehow attenuating it and feeding it into a amp to drive bass shakers. That would work kind of like simvibe but for consoles : )
- 4,177
- Ottawa
Looking at the optibelt product description, it seems that PJ is a code for Height ( thickness) of the belt, 3,5 mm. optibelt.de
Why not order a PH, 2,5 mm, instead of grinding the thicker belt?
If the perfect thickness, is not available, since the stock belts are about 10 $, a custom thinner, might not be that expensive to order.
Why not order a PH, 2,5 mm, instead of grinding the thicker belt?
If the perfect thickness, is not available, since the stock belts are about 10 $, a custom thinner, might not be that expensive to order.
LogiForce
Premium
- 4,078
- Groningen, Netherlands
- LogiForce86
- LogiForce
Look closer. The teeth distance "S" is different as well when the height or thickness "H" is different.
This means you would need different ribbed pulleys as well.
- 4,177
- Ottawa
So what we need is S= 2,34 to fit the existing pulleys, what would the perfect H be?
RacerXX, what thickness are you ending with after the grinding?
Is the exact replacement belt on that list? ( see Link)
RacerXX, what thickness are you ending with after the grinding?
Is the exact replacement belt on that list? ( see Link)
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- Eric_J2358
Guys, you can't just get a belt in any sizes you want. Those are standard stock sizes. If you want to alter any of them you have to do it yourself or place a custom order. To place a custom order you're talking quite a bit more $$ per belt. The stock sizes are most likely made by the millions. If you try to order even several hundred it won't be cheap. I'm going to call our belt distributor here and see if they will give an estimate.
And the number is the rib count, the letter is the tooth profile. So if you have a 2J, you have a 2-rib belt with a J tooth profile. If you have a 4J belt, you have a 4-rib belt with a J tooth profile. The P is just a designator to classify the belt as a metric length. They make the different rib count belts by cutting up a large belt into smaller ones. When they make the belts, they wind them with say 100? not sure how many, but a lot, ribs, then they are individually sliced off to the required rib count in a belt slicing machine, as seen in this pic:
The belt blank is set on the roller and the small rotary cutter near the lower roller cuts them cleanly to the required width.
Edit: I just got off the phone with the OptiBelt guys, and they're shooting me a quote for replacement belts and checking with OptiBelt HQ on whether they will do custom thickness belts. Should get a call back today hopefully. Another interesting thought if they won't do that or it's too expensive is possibly switching to H profile belts and pulleys. Not sure it would be worth it though since RXX has had great results just thinning the stock belts. I wonder if that might be a worthwhile future mod/change for Fanatec on the stock products however.
And the number is the rib count, the letter is the tooth profile. So if you have a 2J, you have a 2-rib belt with a J tooth profile. If you have a 4J belt, you have a 4-rib belt with a J tooth profile. The P is just a designator to classify the belt as a metric length. They make the different rib count belts by cutting up a large belt into smaller ones. When they make the belts, they wind them with say 100? not sure how many, but a lot, ribs, then they are individually sliced off to the required rib count in a belt slicing machine, as seen in this pic:
The belt blank is set on the roller and the small rotary cutter near the lower roller cuts them cleanly to the required width.
Edit: I just got off the phone with the OptiBelt guys, and they're shooting me a quote for replacement belts and checking with OptiBelt HQ on whether they will do custom thickness belts. Should get a call back today hopefully. Another interesting thought if they won't do that or it's too expensive is possibly switching to H profile belts and pulleys. Not sure it would be worth it though since RXX has had great results just thinning the stock belts. I wonder if that might be a worthwhile future mod/change for Fanatec on the stock products however.
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- Eric_J2358
OK, heard back from the belt distributor. OptiBelt do NOT make custom thickness belts, and as far as the distributor's application engineer knows, NO manufacturers do so anymore. The reason for this is the manufacturing method has changed from the one I was familiar with. The belts used to be made as I described by winding, etc. Today, in the ever-evolving drive to cut costs, the belts are made in molds, and then cut to width/rib-count. So in order to get a custom thickness belt, you would have to pay for the cost of the mold being made. Ouch, indeed. You're talking $30,000 USD plus in my experience, for a complex mold.
Here is my small update.
I went down from around 450g drag to about 150-170g ( measured on Bmw-heavy rim )
I did a water break-in as motors just wouldnt stop squealing, after that they are fine
Don't know why they didn't put thermal paste on the outer sheel between sleve and motor as they did on the aluminium fins that goes on top of it ?(doesn't make sense to conduct heat from one part that is not properly connected to the heat source at the first place )
The loctite on the small bearing is dry now, and the bearing is securely in it's place ( like it should be )
Longer(motor) belt is fine, I have grinded it on the top to 2 layer of fabrics, it feels almost like a rope now, and it don't slip at ridiculous low level of tension, great
Maybe I should try to grind it on the rib side, since the slip is not the problem here.
Now the problem is with smaller belt as it's slipping at the pulley. Maybe it's because of the small belt being little longer that Gates 414 vs 408 ? or something else ?
Belt and the pulley are clean as clean it can be.
Any suggestions ?
I went down from around 450g drag to about 150-170g ( measured on Bmw-heavy rim )
I did a water break-in as motors just wouldnt stop squealing, after that they are fine
Don't know why they didn't put thermal paste on the outer sheel between sleve and motor as they did on the aluminium fins that goes on top of it ?(doesn't make sense to conduct heat from one part that is not properly connected to the heat source at the first place
) The loctite on the small bearing is dry now, and the bearing is securely in it's place ( like it should be )
Longer(motor) belt is fine, I have grinded it on the top to 2 layer of fabrics, it feels almost like a rope now, and it don't slip at ridiculous low level of tension, great
Maybe I should try to grind it on the rib side, since the slip is not the problem here.
Now the problem is with smaller belt as it's slipping at the pulley. Maybe it's because of the small belt being little longer that Gates 414 vs 408 ? or something else ?
Belt and the pulley are clean as clean it can be.
Any suggestions ?
- 36
- Sussex
Here is my small update.
I went down from around 450g drag to about 150-170g ( measured on Bmw-heavy rim )
I did a water break-in as motors just wouldnt stop squealing, after that they are fine
Don't know why they didn't put thermal paste on the outer sheel between sleve and motor as they did on the aluminium fins that goes on top of it ?(doesn't make sense to conduct heat from one part that is not properly connected to the heat source at the first place
The loctite on the small bearing is dry now, and the bearing is securely in it's place ( like it should be )
Longer(motor) belt is fine, I have grinded it on the top to 2 layer of fabrics, it feels almost like a rope now, and it don't slip at ridiculous low level of tension, great
Maybe I should try to grind it on the rib side, since the slip is not the problem here.
Now the problem is with smaller belt as it's slipping at the pulley. Maybe it's because of the small belt being little longer that Gates 414 vs 408 ? or something else ?
Belt and the pulley are clean as clean it can be.
Any suggestions ?
This is a mad idea but......
When we were kids we would pour coke on the rims of our BMX wheels to make them sticky and have really good braking. Dont know why but that was the first thing I thought of when reading your post! lol
