Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*
- Thread starter eKretz
- 3,608 comments
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- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Hmm, may have just found some very interesting new motors. They're Bühlers still but an interesting low friction version. Smaller commutators and brushes and much easier to free spin. Same speed and same stall current. Going to fit a set into my wheel forthwith and see how they do.
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Another awesome thing about these new motors is that they are easy to open - they are held together with screws, so changing brushes, turning commutator, etc. is all easily possible. I'm just not sure how the smaller brushes and comm will hold up to the stall amperage.
- 4,168
- Ottawa
What is the advantage of lower friction ?
- 391
- Perth
less drag, more feel?
as Eric and I have discovered, wheels that only came with one fan have a slightly different layout on the PCB, which allows the buhlers to fit inside the case with no moddifications necercary, but there is minimal room between the end of the motor and the mofset heatsink
I have bought a few parts from our good friend Eric (mostly for the air cooling system), but also the necercary parts to change the spacing on the PCB to give the motors a bit more room but im undecided if i will use them at the moment as i like the wasy the casing still fits on with no gaps.
i will definatly be using my alternate power supply once ive got Eric's cooling setup installed and running because i want MOAR POWER! I also want to look at getting a 3 ribbed belt for the motors because im getting alot of slippage on the 2 ribber.
i finaly found out how to post pictures properly so i edited my previouse posts to show them for easy veiwing
as Eric and I have discovered, wheels that only came with one fan have a slightly different layout on the PCB, which allows the buhlers to fit inside the case with no moddifications necercary, but there is minimal room between the end of the motor and the mofset heatsink
I have bought a few parts from our good friend Eric (mostly for the air cooling system), but also the necercary parts to change the spacing on the PCB to give the motors a bit more room but im undecided if i will use them at the moment as i like the wasy the casing still fits on with no gaps.
i will definatly be using my alternate power supply once ive got Eric's cooling setup installed and running because i want MOAR POWER! I also want to look at getting a 3 ribbed belt for the motors because im getting alot of slippage on the 2 ribber.
i finaly found out how to post pictures properly so i edited my previouse posts to show them for easy veiwing
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- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Steve, maybe you need to up your belt tension a bit - I've been running a 2-rib here with no slippage if not overvolting (even at higher amperage than the stock power supply). Or maybe you got something on your belts or pulleys? (Oil from your fingers maybe?)
And yes, I forgot to mention that difference between the older and newer wheels that Steve and I found. It seems that one fan wheels have an older PCB with slightly different component spacing that just barely clears the Bühler motors. If you run the cooling pump though that means some of the hot air will be exiting the motors basically right into the MOSFET heatsink, warming it up.
And yes, I forgot to mention that difference between the older and newer wheels that Steve and I found. It seems that one fan wheels have an older PCB with slightly different component spacing that just barely clears the Bühler motors. If you run the cooling pump though that means some of the hot air will be exiting the motors basically right into the MOSFET heatsink, warming it up.
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Steve has it. There will be less freewheeling drag due to the motors, and the small linearity gap at the bottom of the graph would probably be reduced or eliminated requiring less tuning out using sim settings. Bad news though, I contacted Bühler and these new motors were an internal project - the only way to get more would be to place a very large order. Hopefully I can find some more at surplus. Otherwise we'll just have to continue to tune out the little gap using settings.
On that subject - Steve we know there is a bit more freewheeling drag than stock but do you feel it at all during actual racing? I don't think I can, and one of the guys using the original Bühler motors has commented that he feels a lot more of the small bumps and forces than he did with the stock motors, so I think it doesn't make much difference at all under actual power. Truthfully I think it may be more psychological benefit than actual difference in feel while racing.
- 391
- Perth
Could very well be my greasy mitts that's caused it, could also be my wonky pulleys (i did a rough job on my current motor block as I was too impatient to wait for the propper tools , but I have a second block and pulleys that I will be doing properly especially for the cooling mod). That was my biggest concern with the spacing was the hot air going directly onto the other components. Im thinking adding the extra fan and make both fans blow to the right and possibly have some thing extra on the motors to help vent the hot air directly out of the case, but it will more than likely need that bit of extra room to do so
- 9,721
- Portland, OR
- Jump_Ace
- JUMPxACE
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
I have both my case fans blowing so that the air comes in opposite the motors and takes the air out the side right next to the motors. If I remember correctly I believe this is the stock fan direction. I also have my fans wired so they directly get 24V full voltage instead of being modulated by the firmware. This is helpful since we don't use the temp sensor anymore - so the motors aren't going full blast without it. I'm not sure if it's really necessary but what the heck. I've been doing this for people who send their wheels to me also. I haven't bothered putting a deflector on the back of the motors since I haven't had any problems without one.
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
- 9,721
- Portland, OR
- Jump_Ace
- JUMPxACE
- 20
- Switzerland
- geg_geg
Hello all,
I got my "drop-in motor block" from Eric few day ago and I would like to share it with the community. Please be indulgent because my English is far from perfect.
First I would like to Thank very much Eric for his availability, his kindness, his patience and his quick responses. I wonder if he can rest from time to time.
THANK YOU ERIC
My CSW is a 2 fan and a 2-rib belt.
So first I had to oder the 3-rib belt. Then with the guidance of Eric, I ordered the power supply and the air pump. I made also a noise reducing box to put the pump in.
I have to say that I had fun moding my CSW. I have a just lite mechanical background and I found it pretty easy to unmount put the motors in and remount the all thing.
I play mainly AC and I have to say that the feeling from the wheel as changed a lot in a good way. Here is how the wheel is setup:
SEN - OFF
FF - 100
SHO - 100
ABS - OFF (thx Fanaled
)
LIN - OFF
DEA - OFF
DRI - OFF
FOR - 80 to 60
(I do not go bellow 60 otherwise the wheel becomes flat in my taste)
SPR - 20
DPR - 100
I can feel more the bumps on the road. The wheel is more precise, direct and stronger. It has less wobbling. In one word it as become "better" or "alive". For me it worth any penny invested.
Geg
I got my "drop-in motor block" from Eric few day ago and I would like to share it with the community. Please be indulgent because my English is far from perfect.
First I would like to Thank very much Eric for his availability, his kindness, his patience and his quick responses. I wonder if he can rest from time to time.
THANK YOU ERIC
My CSW is a 2 fan and a 2-rib belt.
So first I had to oder the 3-rib belt. Then with the guidance of Eric, I ordered the power supply and the air pump. I made also a noise reducing box to put the pump in.
I have to say that I had fun moding my CSW. I have a just lite mechanical background and I found it pretty easy to unmount put the motors in and remount the all thing.
I play mainly AC and I have to say that the feeling from the wheel as changed a lot in a good way. Here is how the wheel is setup:
SEN - OFF
FF - 100
SHO - 100
ABS - OFF (thx Fanaled
)LIN - OFF
DEA - OFF
DRI - OFF
FOR - 80 to 60
(I do not go bellow 60 otherwise the wheel becomes flat in my taste)
SPR - 20
DPR - 100
I can feel more the bumps on the road. The wheel is more precise, direct and stronger. It has less wobbling. In one word it as become "better" or "alive". For me it worth any penny invested.
Geg
- 134
- Amsterdam
- bruzski
hello, eKretz and geg, just registered here after becoming a proud owner of a CSW after upgrading from the csr elite and having loads of fun, man... what a difference :-)
I'm following your topic with lots of interests!! hehe....
@geg
i am wondering did you also changed the power unit of the CSW after changing the motors??
I'm following your topic with lots of interests!! hehe....
@geg
i am wondering did you also changed the power unit of the CSW after changing the motors??
- 4,168
- Ottawa
Geg, thank you for the detailed feedback and all the pictures. Also congratulation on your rig you seem to be very well equipped.
I hope you will enjoy AC as much as I do
I hope you will enjoy AC as much as I do
- 20
- Switzerland
- geg_geg
@[USER=45652
Yes i had to change the power supply you can see the new one on the 6th picture i have posted. But it seems that if you run your wheel at lower FF and FOR you do not have to change the power supply. Maybe eKretz or Blue028 can tell you more about it. If I am not mistaken Blue028 is running new moded motors with stock power supply.
- 20
- Switzerland
- geg_geg
Thx Cote Dazur
I am working on my rig since 3 years. I have built it slowly step by step. I started with GT5 on a joypad on my tv and here I am now. Dedicated room just for simracing 
I must say that since AC came out I don't play any other sim. I try from time to time to fire up GSC2013, rFactor2, Ftruck2013, NetKar Pro or Kart Racing Pro but after a few laps I stop and go back to AC. I feel at home with AC. You can not imagine since I have moded my wheel what a pleasure is to drive the Z4 GT3, the Zonda or the Tatus
. Every car I try since the mod I am like "Holy cow, this car is good" I am a happy guy
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- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Yes indeed I have, with the stock motors. That is brush noise my friend. You should not use oil on the brushes or commutator. It should be lubricated by the wear of the brushes. They usually have at least some graphite in them to help lubricate the comm. I'm afraid there's not much you can do short of opening the motor - which will almost certainly make it unusable again. The stock motors aren't designed to be serviceable. Sorry for the bad news!
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Hi guys - I wanted to share an experience I had this morning with my new friend derickh. He came by to collect his wheel this morning after asking me to do the Bühler motor install for him. So I stayed up most of the night working on another motor block that I promised to send out this morning - and while I had derick's wheel already done I decided to give him a nice upgrade since he was letting me borrow his Oculus Rift. I decided at like 4 or 5 a.m. to switch his old style single fan "V16" circuit board for my spare new style "V18" PCB as a free upgrade. Anyways, I switched the boards out and switched the motor wires around (they are opposite polarity between the older wheels and newer ones). Then I fired up the wheel and made sure it went through calibration. So far so good. Time to get 2-3 hours of sleep.
So derick is knocking on the door at 10a.m. - our agreed upon meeting time, and wakes me up.
So I get up and get everything setup and ready - deciding to set up his wheel so he can try it out before he goes. And so I hit the power button, the wheel goes through calibration, and 
all of a sudden there's a nice zapping sound and magic smoke comes out of the wheel!! Oh no!
So I unplugged the wheel
(so embarrassed) and started surgery. Turns out you shouldn't work on wheels when you've been up all night, lol. I had gotten lazy as it was late and I was super tired and when I removed the MOSFET heatsink I had just put a little more thermal compound on instead of cleaning everything up good first, and it overflowed the top surface enough to short one of the drive MOSFET pins. It must have worked for that super short duration the night before but been on the verge of zapping, then maybe flowed a bit closer to the pin after sitting upright all night and in the a.m. ZAP!
So derick had to sit patiently while I went through troubleshooting and repairing his wheel - which he was very good about - and I tried to give some pointers and explanation along the way so he wasn't bored. We desoldered the damaged drive MOSFET and a few other nearby components on accident because of the airflow of the hot air gun blowing them a bit and swapped the damaged MOSFET for a spare good part then resoldered the couple tiny ones that came loose due to the hot air. I made real sure to clean up the board good this time! After that we fired it up and raced for a couple hours with no issues, and boy is that Oculus Rift neat!
Just goes to show you that just because some magic smoke gets out it doesn't mean it's the end of the world. I keep a nice little supply of spares for the boards around just in case something like this happens - but this is the very first time I've had to use them. I'm still dope slapping myself for not cleaning that dang compound off last night.🤬
So derick is knocking on the door at 10a.m. - our agreed upon meeting time, and wakes me up.
So I get up and get everything setup and ready - deciding to set up his wheel so he can try it out before he goes. And so I hit the power button, the wheel goes through calibration, and all of a sudden there's a nice zapping sound and magic smoke comes out of the wheel!! Oh no! So I unplugged the wheel
(so embarrassed) and started surgery. Turns out you shouldn't work on wheels when you've been up all night, lol. I had gotten lazy as it was late and I was super tired and when I removed the MOSFET heatsink I had just put a little more thermal compound on instead of cleaning everything up good first, and it overflowed the top surface enough to short one of the drive MOSFET pins. It must have worked for that super short duration the night before but been on the verge of zapping, then maybe flowed a bit closer to the pin after sitting upright all night and in the a.m. ZAP! So derick had to sit patiently while I went through troubleshooting and repairing his wheel - which he was very good about - and I tried to give some pointers and explanation along the way so he wasn't bored. We desoldered the damaged drive MOSFET and a few other nearby components on accident because of the airflow of the hot air gun blowing them a bit and swapped the damaged MOSFET for a spare good part then resoldered the couple tiny ones that came loose due to the hot air. I made real sure to clean up the board good this time! After that we fired it up and raced for a couple hours with no issues, and boy is that Oculus Rift neat!
Just goes to show you that just because some magic smoke gets out it doesn't mean it's the end of the world. I keep a nice little supply of spares for the boards around just in case something like this happens - but this is the very first time I've had to use them. I'm still dope slapping myself for not cleaning that dang compound off last night.🤬
- 1,603
- IN
- Eric_J2358
Actually I think it makes less difference on either when the wheel is powered on with the way the wheel compensates for drag quite a bit. I've noticed that the "minimum force" test on Wheelcheck is 0.0% with the stock motors and also with the Bühler motors, even though with the wheel off the free-wheeling drag feels a bit heavier with the Bühler motors. So truthfully it doesn't seem very important at all on the CSW/Elite. Wheels that don't have a drag compensation routine would probably get more benefit from less drag. It's also crucial with bushed motors to get motor belt tension just right since it increases friction greatly with more side force compared to ball bearing motors. That is probably more to help motor life than feel though, since the drag compensation probably helps there also.
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