Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

[Cote Dazur]

If a motor is replaced now or if you purchase a CSW new and don't overclock your FOR or SPR power above 100 then you will be just fine. No engine will last forever and it always depends how you treat it. No matter if it is a real car or one of our wheels. But our products are designed for heavy use and the motor itself is fit for the purpose.

At least this clarify Fanatec position on the motor choice and the chances to get a better one from them, since they believe there is nothing wrong with it if it is used within reasonable limits.
I do not know how many failure of motors, used within reasonable limits, have occurred since the end of the bad batch in May 2013, all I know is that mine are still ok, and I hope Fanatec are correct, as I like their product and wish that their customer are happy.

 

[vittorio]

How do you know the end of the bad batch was in May 2013, were did you read this?

 

[paskowitz]

Wait, the CSW is not designed to have the FOR setting beyond 100?

Why on earth was there no giant warning for this? Not mention it goes to 400.

 

[Colt Rogers]

My CSR Elite was doing fine since March 2013 until a month ago when I sold my greedy XBOX 1 and purchased myself a proper gaming PC, then came Assetto a Corsa (IMO the best sim ever) and the inconsistent FFB levels as one of you recently spoke of. This eventually, mainly the Z4 GT3, killed my motors...actually only about 100 hours of thoroughly enjoying AC.
I could never really get the FFB where I wanted it. The Z4 GT3 FFB felt by far the best as far as wheel TENSION, but other road cars required ranking the FFB gain in-game to 110%. Playing on this level of gain would cause the wheel to basically overheat in 5 minutes or less sometimes. This is just unacceptable especially considering the $$$ we spend on our wheels. I have been silently following this thread out of sheer curiosity until now. The timing was spot on as we will hopefully have our new badboy motors in a month. I am as excited about the Buhlers as I was when I first ordered my Elite. All that I want out of a wheel is consistent and strong TENSION. The brute jerking forces only decrease the precision level for me personally.

I say let's make the order at the end of this month being that we have hit that magic 15 mark. I am sure Eric could wait longer and have more participants but the way I see it do the first official group order, then once these hit the public there will be MANY more FANATEC users lining up out the door once the experience of the new motors hits all the forums and spreads. Either way I am very excited and it should be the best mod that any of us have done to our rigs period and thanks to all that have made this possible, especially Eric.

 

[Cote Dazur]

How do you know the end of the bad batch was in May 2013, were did you read this?

It was in a post ( #339 ) from "the VP" in the Fanatec Clubsport Shifter SQ review thread, where he said Fanatec told him :

Hi guys,
I am a bit irritated that you prefer guessing what the motor problem was instead of asking Fanatec by yourselves!? The problem was heat. One (big) batch of motors from the supplier was not up to the task to work in the conditions inside the CSW if you drive it for longer turns. Now they are testing all motors in production to make sure all is fine. Since ~ May 2013 (varies a bit due to the worldwide distribution) they are using only the tested motors in production and for all repairs. Since then there is no single confirmed case that any of those tested motors did show any problem like this again.

 

[F1 Enthusiast]

It was in a post ( #339 ) from "the VP" in the Fanatec Clubsport Shifter SQ review thread, where he said Fanatec told him :

Received my new motors in October 2013. They were labelled "V2" motors. They worked fine with F1 2013. Got GT6 for Christmas, started playing it and the motors lasted about 7-10 days. Burning smell almost immediately and then the motors were toast in a week or so. Albeit, the motors lasted better with GT6, than GT5. But just barely.

These "new" motors are the same garbage as the original motors. For example, I played F1 2012 for about 10 months without a problem on the original motors. Played GT5 for about 1 hour and the motors cooked instantly. All this with the same FFB setting of 100, which is supposed to mean the wheel delivers 100% of the intended FFB delivered by the game. Basically the BASE scenario for any wheel to deal with. $100 wheel's can deal with it, but a $700 wheel can't.

The issue is with the different demands different games place on the motors. The motors cannot handle standard demands of all popular games on the market. They will burn with certain games.

This is not acceptable for a product this expensive IMHO. A G25 will last years and you don't have to worry about this nonsense. I've owned my CSW for 1 1/2 years, it has been basically out of commission for almost 4 months over that time frame.

Just not acceptable. Period.

And now they want $350 for a basic rim........... Hahahahaha........ if it was a joke it would be funny, but apparently they are seriously trying to sell that thing.

 

[Cote Dazur]

@ F1 Enthusiast, I only replied to Vittorio's question, I am not saying it is true, in my post I said I do not know. I would like to know.
Still I like that Fanatec took a stand stating there is nothing wrong with the motors and at the same time admits that we need to be careful not to ask too much out of the wheel. Particularly interesting with the Elite, as it does not have an adjustment where you can ask for more than the 100, like you can on a CSW.
I hope it is true, for everyone's sake. It is true for me, my second set is holding on, but I am also very careful not to overheat them.

 

[nubrocket]

And now they want $350 for a basic rim........... Hahahahaha........ if it was a joke it would be funny, but apparently they are seriously trying to sell that thing.

Maybe we have some evidence that it was a joke after all. Thomas is really quite a troll, for better or worse. Remember when he hid a new version of firmware within the bowels of his blog and then took it down after a few days? A real guy at a real company with really expensive products totally did that. Whatever, I digress.

Anyways, here's the evidence. A new F1 Carbon Fiber rim. It looks awesome.

As for GT5 and GT6 frying motors, I'm glad that I didn't play those with my CSR-E very much and that, when I did, I always had the FFB dialed way down. In fact I tend to always dial it down. This is why I'm so excited about the eKretz mod -- I don't want to be constantly paranoid anymore. On one hand I still have working motors and they feel like they did ~2 years ago when I bought this thing, but on the other hand every session is strictly timed to be less than an hour and comes with just a smidge of anxiety.

I don't want to worry about the damn motors anymore. I want to drive.

 

[eKretz]

For me at least that "carbon" rim is lame. They appear to have just slapped a thin carbon skin over the top of the aluminum and jacked the price up by almost $100. If they had actually made the rim from carbon it would have been awesome.

 

[F1 Enthusiast]

@ F1 Enthusiast, I only replied to Vittorio's question, I am not saying it is true, in my post I said I do not know. I would like to know.
Still I like that Fanatec took a stand stating there is nothing wrong with the motors and at the same time admits that we need to be careful not to ask too much out of the wheel. Particularly interesting with the Elite, as it does not have an adjustment where you can ask for more than the 100, like you can on a CSW.
I hope it is true, for everyone's sake. It is true for me, my second set is holding on, but I am also very careful not to overheat them.

I understand Cote. Wasn't knocking your post, just wanted people to know about my situation as it directly contradicts what Fanatec has been saying. They told me the same thing last year in the Fall. It may be that I am just unlucky, but the more I hear about the same thing happening to others I believe the problem is not resolved and much more complex than what Thomas is saying.

I too REALLY hope that what Thomas has said is true, but my gut tells me it's just more spin and the motors are EXACTLY the same.

Time will tell. Cheers. .

 

[Blue028]

its the same rim! just they've changed the colour of the buttons and whacked the 'real carbon fibre' on it (same as whats on the csr elite wheel rim) which is more or less a sticker, so it will probably weigh the same if not a smidge more than the original rim and they want how much extra for it??

 

[Colt Rogers]

I would rather have a ****** looking rim with badass motors than the "carbon fiber" rim with the weak stockies...never judge a book by its cover, didn't someone say that?...

 

[ultimate]

What lowest value settings should prevent from motor to fade or heat?
When Fanatec recommend to not using wheel at maximum FFB, does it mean FFB in-game + wheel's settings?

 

[bumer]

What lowest value settings should prevent from motor to fade or heat?
When Fanatec recommend to not using wheel at maximum FFB, does it mean FFB in-game + wheel's settings?

Where do they not recommend? Maximum is generally 100% (even tho you can dial some things more) and this is something wheel should be capable of any day of the week. Lowest value is of course 0 or off. There is no point in dialing it down to not have as much fade, because then FFB is already weaker than with the fade. But if you would like, you can turn it down as much as you like. You can feel the air coming out of the wheel whether it is hot or not and can dial it according to that. Every motor fade, even these Bühlers. eKretz is just using better cooling, so it is probably not noticable. If you would use it with stock motors, you would get less fade too, but of course Fanatec can't implement such cooling in the wheel because its probably over half the size of the base.

I would like to know what settings people use. I have generally FF and For at 100 and in-game usually 60-80. Even then I have to dial it down in the wheel (in AC) sometimes, because it is still too strong. I want to feel FFB normally but not fight with it every corner. I don't understand how others drive. It seems that most want wrist breaking FFB.

 

[ultimate]

I mostly use wheel FFB 100 and in-game wheel FFB at 70
Hope these settings are not too high.

 

[ultimate]

I've discovered a motor that will directly replace the stock motors but isn't any more powerful for those who are looking for them. The motors are designated with a part number of QK1-1500 and are found in select Canon printers from the IP and MP series. If you Google that number some will show up on ebay and a few printer parts sites.

I found some motors with designated model number and wonder if it was the right model
Can you show me a picture of latest Buhler motor that you been using?

 

[paskowitz]

For me at least that "carbon" rim is lame. They appear to have just slapped a thin carbon skin over the top of the aluminum and jacked the price up by almost $100. If they had actually made the rim from carbon it would have been awesome.

Better idea instead of replacing the plastic withe stiffer plastic how about replacing all the heavy metal components (maybe outside of the inner part of the qr system).

 

[Dean Ogurek]

Where do they not recommend? Maximum is generally 100% (even tho you can dial some things more) and this is something wheel should be capable of any day of the week. Lowest value is of course 0 or off. There is no point in dialing it down to not have as much fade, because then FFB is already weaker than with the fade. But if you would like, you can turn it down as much as you like. You can feel the air coming out of the wheel whether it is hot or not and can dial it according to that. Every motor fade, even these Bühlers. eKretz is just using better cooling, so it is probably not noticable. If you would use it with stock motors, you would get less fade too, but of course Fanatec can't implement such cooling in the wheel because its probably over half the size of the base.

I would like to know what settings people use. I have generally FF and For at 100 and in-game usually 60-80. Even then I have to dial it down in the wheel (in AC) sometimes, because it is still too strong. I want to feel FFB normally but not fight with it every corner. I don't understand how others drive. It seems that most want wrist breaking FFB.

I run my CSW almost exactly the same as you do while monitoring the air coming out. No problems so far aside from one time when running the Z4 GT3 in AC - that car really pushes the motors. I have a few presets on the wheel setup to reduce the Force for those cases. I think I'm generally running the CSW at a light to moderate load but, would still like a bit more force without compromising reliability. Using these settings, the CSW is only a little stronger than my G25 was although, with better fidelity. At this point, I am waiting to see how the AccuForce wheel turns out before making any decisions on a motor upgrade. Ultimately, I think that going the servo motor route may be worth the extra cost for me but, we should know more once the new wheel hits the streets in a few months.

 

[bumer]

Ultimately, I think that going the servo motor route may be worth the extra cost for me but, we should know more once the new wheel hits the streets in a few months.

Those servo motors should undeniably be a considerable/remarkable upgrade, but most can't afford them, although it is kind of funny seeing people complaining about high prices even though minimum salary in their country is about 3-4 times higher than in mine.

 

[eKretz]

Where do they not recommend? Maximum is generally 100% (even tho you can dial some things more) and this is something wheel should be capable of any day of the week. Lowest value is of course 0 or off. There is no point in dialing it down to not have as much fade, because then FFB is already weaker than with the fade. But if you would like, you can turn it down as much as you like. You can feel the air coming out of the wheel whether it is hot or not and can dial it according to that. Every motor fade, even these Bühlers. eKretz is just using better cooling, so it is probably not noticable. If you would use it with stock motors, you would get less fade too, but of course Fanatec can't implement such cooling in the wheel because its probably over half the size of the base.

I would like to know what settings people use. I have generally FF and For at 100 and in-game usually 60-80. Even then I have to dial it down in the wheel (in AC) sometimes, because it is still too strong. I want to feel FFB normally but not fight with it every corner. I don't understand how others drive. It seems that most want wrist breaking FFB.

I think you are a little off with the "wrist-breaking" comment, but I agree with most of the rest of your post. I wanted increased FFB power for several reasons, one of which is to better and more accurately simulate the higher forces of vintage and even current open wheel cars (my preferred cars to race), many of which have no power steering. Another benefit of more force is the fidelity between forces increases, and also it is much easier to recover from slides since it is harder to overcorrect when the wheel has more force. Personally I feel that the Bühler motors make the strength of the wheel just about perfect, and the cooling prevents any noticeable fade for me no matter how long I race.

 

[eKretz]

Those servo motors should undeniably be a considerable/remarkable upgrade, but most can't afford them, although it is kind of funny seeing people complaining about high prices even though minimum salary in their country is about 3-4 times higher than in mine.

Perhaps the salaries are higher but many forget that the cost of living (i.e. food, utility, gasoline, etc.) is usually much higher along with it.

 

[eKretz]

I found some motors with designated model number and wonder if it was the right model
Can you show me a picture of latest Buhler motor that you been using?

I use the same Bühler motors as have been used from the start. The new group buy will use the updated part number, but those aren't available anywhere except from the distributor new as far as I've been able to find.

 

[bumer]

Perhaps the salaries are higher but many forget that the cost of living (i.e. food, utility, gasoline, etc.) is usually much higher along with it.

Yes and no. Some costs are higher, like rent and may have some more taxes. But most things are the same, we don't get cell phones, computers or whatever tech cheaper, including Fanatec stuff, because all comes from the same place. Many things cost even more due to having a lot less people, so merchants don't get as good deals from big corporates. Gasoline is interesting too, because price difference is something between 20-30% compared to other european welfare states, but as you see, salary difference is 300-400%.

 

[ultimate]

Perhaps the salaries are higher but many forget that the cost of living (i.e. food, utility, gasoline, etc.) is usually much higher along with it.

its true but i dont know how living cost is in US but in Europe, we got usually higher price than US on almost every thing besides taxes and more taxes.

 

[Cote Dazur]

In AC I have FFB at 50 in game and between 100 and 90 at the wheel. No overheating issues.

 

[ultimate]

When did you buy your wheel by that way?

 

[vittorio]

I never found a setting which made me happy. Set CSR-E FF=100%, then in rfactor2 by using the rF2 Pedal Overlay Plugin I adjusted the rf2 FFB scale so that there is never FFB clipping. Using this scale value and reducing it by 90%, 80% and (IIRC) 70%, I couldn't find a value so that in a 30 min race the FFB was never fading. So I ended using the FFB scale so there is no clipping and accepted the fading in the race.

 

[Dean Ogurek]

Those servo motors should undeniably be a considerable/remarkable upgrade, but most can't afford them, although it is kind of funny seeing people complaining about high prices even though minimum salary in their country is about 3-4 times higher than in mine.

In my case, we are fortunate to be in a position where we have the things we need and aside from having to help our kids out from time to time, our home is nearly paid for. Of course, the cost vs. income is all relative to our personal circumstances. We are involved in various charities, volunteer and community groups, etc. Like Ekretz, I too have serious back problems that limit what kind of things I can do for fun. The one thing I insist on having from all the hard work I do is my Sim Racing. When things are very busy and stressful, it's something that gets me centered and helps me to relax before going to bed at night.

Regarding the motor mod, one issue I have with going this route is the cooling solution. It does add another layer of things that have to be managed in a small office space where I have to shuffle things around and mount the wheel to my desk every time I race. Having the air pump and related tubing in addition to existing wires/cables is not very attractive to me. Space is just too limited to even consider a dedicated race rig and I'm not interested in adding on to our home so I have to work with what I have.

 

[eKretz]

In my case, we are fortunate to be in a position where we have the things we need and aside from having to help our kids out from time to time, our home is nearly paid for. Of course, the cost vs. income is all relative to our personal circumstances. We are involved in various charities, volunteer and community groups, etc. Like Ekretz, I too have serious back problems that limit what kind of things I can do for fun. The one thing I insist on having from all the hard work I do is my Sim Racing. When things are very busy and stressful, it's something that gets me centered and helps me to relax before going to bed at night.

Regarding the motor mod, one issue I have with going this route is the cooling solution. It does add another layer of things that have to be managed in a small office space where I have to shuffle things around and mount the wheel to my desk every time I race. Having the air pump and related tubing in addition to existing wires/cables is not very attractive to me. Space is just too limited to even consider a dedicated race rig and I'm not interested in adding on to our home so I have to work with what I have.

There seems to be a lot of misconception about this being a PITA to set up, but it really isn't. I keep my pump behind the TV stand with the tubing coiled and it is only one extra hose to grab and connect to the wheel with two 1/4 turn twists. When done racing, disconnect with two 1/4 turn twists, coil the tube and tuck behind the TV.

 

[superslowme]

@bumer

IMHO = It´s just my honest opinion based a lot on the cost for clubsport stuff in relation to quality (electronics) as well as the telephone calls I´v had with him (aka Tomas) and imo the excuses given but I will not get into that here cause Tomas is not here to defend himself so I´ll keep the specifics regarding those calls to myself and will speak no more about it, I am sorry if I offended anyone in here with the "greed comment" in any way I assure that was not my intention at all. I´m a pretty straight forward guy and not very politically correct so at times I say things without thinking how others will see me for doing so.

@Dean Ogurek

Yes my friend I hear you, the cooling solution was my issue as well before signing up for the motors (and soon enough the eKretz bolt on mod-package to go with them). I´m in a small space as well but regarding the air pump I´ll find a way to hide it but also I have the CSL seat so going to try and hide the tubing inside the tubes/frame if possible, then we have the noise obviously but that´s subjective and me personally is very sensitive in that way. I´v tried to use headphones last few days and found it works very well and even notice that now I can actually hear the DRS "blip" and don´t need to rely only on the green led in Codemasters F1.
Regarding the pump, is it possible that there exist a pump small enough to be mounted inside the CSW?