Fanatec CSW/CSR Elite Modders Thread *UPDATE February 2014*

  • Thread starter eKretz
  • 3,608 comments
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Check out what I found when I opened the wheel base guys. I am sure this wire has always been cut/damaged. It seems that it happened when they assembled the base at the factory. I opened the base for the first time, so there is no way I could've caused the damage. By the way, I have no idea what that wire is for :) Is it for the temperature sensor? Also, is it possible that the motors are fine? I didn't have time to repair the wire and test the wheel to find out, thus just replaced with the new set.

Fanatec%20CSR%20E%20Motor.jpg
 
Yup, that's the thermistor wire. So basically your wheel had no idea what the temperature of your motors was if that was cut since new. It won't affect the motors working except that it would allow them to overheat without cutting power. It probably contributed to your motors burning up.
 
Thanks for info Eric, yeah that makes sense..

yegor, yeah like Eric said if that wire if cut your motors will not cut power when overheating but I wonder: When you have used your wheel in the past have you never notice that the wheel gets a bit weaker when you have a raced for some time? It´s very clear imho and you cannot miss it, for example in the middle of a long race the wheel feels somewhat strong in FFB at first and after 10-15 of racing all the sudden the you notice the FFB is loosing strength?

If you never felt that it was indeed cut all along, I wonder simply cause when I look at that pic I imagine myself to see something like a collar on the end of wire where it´s "cut", in other words molten plastics from wire insulation?
I am probably wrong and just wonder if it could have been exposed to heat but then again that would not cut the copper in the wire itself so yeah cut from factory most likely and if so what a weird thing? Quality control anyone? :ill:
 
I have seen stock wires nearly cut through from the factory on many wheels I've worked on. Cheap China labor with poor oversight.
 
OK fellas, update!

Motors for the first five guys have arrived - they have been tested and are all good. Getting ready to start cutting on them tonight hopefully.

Since they took so long to get here I've decided to go ahead and open up payment and list order placement for the main motor GB list. Everyone on the list should have received an email from me outlining the procedure etc. If you were missed let me know. The delivery order will be based on the order that I receive payment, so don't delay if you're impatient!
 
superslowme
Thanks for info Eric, yeah that makes sense..

yegor, yeah like Eric said if that wire if cut your motors will not cut power when overheating but I wonder: When you have used your wheel in the past have you never notice that the wheel gets a bit weaker when you have a raced for some time? It´s very clear imho and you cannot miss it, for example in the middle of a long race the wheel feels somewhat strong in FFB at first and after 10-15 of racing all the sudden the you notice the FFB is loosing strength?

If you never felt that it was indeed cut all along, I wonder simply cause when I look at that pic I imagine myself to see something like a collar on the end of wire where it´s "cut", in other words molten plastics from wire insulation?
I am probably wrong and just wonder if it could have been exposed to heat but then again that would not cut the copper in the wire itself so yeah cut from factory most likely and if so what a weird thing? Quality control anyone? :ill:
Click to expand...

I always had problems, thought that's how it should be and kept tweaking the settings thinking I was missing something. Poor me :)
 
yegor
Check out what I found when I opened the wheel base guys. I am sure this wire has always been cut/damaged. It seems that it happened when they assembled the base at the factory.
Click to expand...

i'm not really suprised that you found this out:odd:

when i tried looking into the strange clicking sound in my right shifter paddle of my csw bmw gt2 wheel i found out that one head bolt of the right microswitch part wasn't even screwed in and was hanging loose:banghead:

and when i had problems with my css shifter not wanting to shift into gear 3 and 5 i found out the microswitches were in bad shape and all bend :rolleyes: guess fanatec is not into quality control..;)
 
eKretz
OK fellas, update!

Motors for the first five guys have arrived - they have been tested and are all good. Getting ready to start cutting on them tonight hopefully.

Since they took so long to get here I've decided to go ahead and open up payment and list order placement for the main motor GB list. Everyone on the list should have received an email from me outlining the procedure etc. If you were missed let me know. The delivery order will be based on the order that I receive payment, so don't delay if you're impatient!
Click to expand...


Yafu**inghoo !!!!! Very excited about getting this mod installed. Cant thank you enough for all your efforts Eric.:gtpflag:
 
I searched around this forum and know air pumps have been talked about before but where did the 20-30 LPM limit come from? Is that because there is no pumps between the air stone pumps, 3-5 LFM, not being enough air cooling? I know Eric has stated better to be on the safe side.
 
I used a couple pumps of different flow rates and the lower limit is around 20 LPM to keep the cooling rate up. If you want to experiment more to see what the bare possible minimum is that you're comfortable with, feel free, but this was the zone I felt comfortable with the cooling rate.
 
@yegor yeah with a cut wire you probably burnt out these low quality Chinese motors faster then I can say.... Fanatec! :D

Sorry my friend, not funny when that happens.

There is a FFB limiter built in to the code of the firmware and it is supposed to cut some of that FFB power to the wheel when the sensor pick up that motors are overheating, perhaps you have read about it on here and some people not happy about how fast it step in and cut power and therefor some of us race in periods and rest a lil while in between the races to let motors cool down and get some FFB power back again. Although even that can feel pointless at times cause it just step in and cut power right way when you run high FFB on the stock wheel anyways and that is actually one of the main reason I am so happy about running Eric´s Buhler mod now apart from the obvious performance enhancements. Take Codies F1 series for example, one of the games I run the most these days. I used to push FFB setting up in the 80-90´s at times and have even tested out 100% (always worried doing so), now I run same games at 50-60% and my CSW perform better at lower settings, it feels much better and no cutting of FFB. I simply love that new improved Buhler CSW, difference is amazing really and that is no overstatement.

@Kyle Herrin, some air pumps are measured in LPM but that figure is measured at a certain pressure resistance, perhaps that´s why we see some Chinese aquarium pumps on Ebay that is very overrated I suspect cause maybe they measure them without resistance which would give a much higher flow rate? Sorry my English sucks so I cannot express and say exactly what I want here and make sense out of that at the same time?? Anyways my pump is a Japanese made quality pump rated at 15 LPM but specs and chart for my pump show it can go higher especially with low resistance like for example let´s say inject air directly into a Buhler motor. :lol: My point is that although specified for 15 LPM it can reach 25 LPM, it is enough and can do the job but I would not risk running a weaker pump but that´s just me perhaps someone else have better knowledge about that?
 
Thanks. Figured you did some testing was just curious. Just been looking at air pumps all morning figuring out just what one I want to buy. I'm familiar will pumps from my years in saltwater, septic tanks, and boat dock bubblers.
Yes I could just buy a $30 piston style and make a custom enclosure to reduce the noise but wanted something a little less project intensive. Also not spend over $100. Most of what I've found were all in the $70 range. Think I've got it all figured out now.

I'm looking at the manufacture's specs of the pumps, Superslowme. Usually don't believe what is advertised. They like to fudge numbers that have to deal with depths and back pressures when using the pump. Also your English is fine. Better than mine... lol
 
Glad to hear, yeah just follow that minimum requirements and you should be 100% sure it´s enough. Yeah the top notch pumps especially membrane pumps can cost a bit for sure. Agreed some manufacturers are not fully honest or perhaps even test pumps properly, apart from some brand names I mean that provide very detailed charts and all kind of info but I think for this use pressure is not the most important part but rather overall flow-rate cause there is not much of resistance without air stones attached, not much lift height to deal with etc.. etc..

Isolation box for pump have been done by some, can imagine it makes a difference on something like the cheaper piston driven pumps as far as noise directly from the pump/pump housing goes. However even for me who have a somewhat quiet pump (relatively I mean) I still do suffer somewhat from noise cause I´m very noise sensitive but also cause you cannot completely eliminate the noise you experience no matter what you do simple cause the air rushing through the tubing and exit through the motors themselves can be heard even if a pump is hidden in noise cancellation box of some sort. The membranes themselves create a noise when moving fast to create air in the first place and that noise travel with the air through tubing and out the the other end via Buhlers mounted inside CSW. I know Eric is working on a different motor design, centrifugal rather then membrane/piston driven + 12v so run off the PSU for CSW and he will let us know once testing is finished.

Hehe thanks appreciate it my friend, just sometimes I have problem with grammars as well as finding the right words which is annoying for sure but hope I can make myself understood at least..
 
I thought I would provide updated feedback on my eKretz upgrade. I own the CSR-E and had eKretz provide me with a motor mount and two Buhler motors. I kept the Fanatec power supply and cooling system. This is not a configuration he recommends and warned me about the danger of over heating the motors and/or blowing the power supply. He said if I was to run this configuration I must run it on low feedback settings.

First the Buhler motors are a lot more powerful than the Fanatec originals. I had always run low feedback operating at 40. I'm 71 years old and it irritates the mild arthritis in my hands and wrists when the wheel janks strongly when I hit a curb or make a steering error. I don't need pain to enjoy the driving.

I run 100 feedback on the wheel and started at 20 in the game and then dropped that to 10. It is plenty strong and provides me with a good sensation of driving.

I've had no noticeable fade of feedback when driving for extended periods. I've had no evidence of undo heating from the motors. I really don't know what temperature they are operating at but I can't detect any/much heat in the wheel air exhaust.

In net I am very satisfied with the results of the minimalist upgrade I performed and thought I would share it with other who are willing to live on the low feedback strength end of performance.
 
Very good to hear RReed! I'm glad you're still happily enjoying your modded wheel. I only discourage running without cooling if people are going to be running normal (average?) FFB levels. I think for people who like lower feedback like RReed it's pretty safe to run without cooling in the FF40 to possibly FF50 range on the wheel. In-game settings will of course vary, so I can't give any guidelines there. Even though it would technically be possible to run at FF100 with no cooling, motor life would certainly be dramatically shortened, and there would almost certainly be big time power fade due to the heat buildup. You'll notice that not a single person using this mod at full power with the air cooling has made mention of having that problem anymore.
 
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@RReed43 , thank you for sharing your experience and glad to hear it also works without additional air cooling if the driver is not into strong wheel feedback, as I am. I do not have any arthritis problem ( yet ) but I find strong wheel movement detrimental to feeling what is happening, I love the light feeling of the CSR-E, as it speaks to me with details but without shooting.
I received my Buhler kit a long time ago, at the time I ordered it I did not want to add an air pump to my set up, but as I saw in the thread that it became to way to go and also since Erik recommended it strongly, I just did nothing until I felt strongly one way or the other. It also helps that my second Fanabushi motor set is still going strong.
I already purchased a stronger power supply.
Now that summer is getting to an end, I will soon spend more time inside and you review is encouraging me to install my Buhler kit just as a replacement to the original motors, monitor the heat with my thermometer and report.
 
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Offtopic but Fanatec got something new coming... Could be a direct drive wheel (?). Go to the Fanatec product thread for more info :)
 
Interesting, a direct drive wheel would be cool. The photo looks like part of a CNC machine tool, but not sure if that's an actual product of Fanatec's being made or just a stock photo from somewhere.
 
Air pumps are a jungle and I'm a bit confused.

Eric, when you recommend a pump with 20-30 LPM do you mean 1 pump 30 lpm or 2 pumps 15 lpm each?

Does your pump have 2 outlets or 1 that you split? If you split the outlet from the pump, why not split the air inside the wheelbase? :dopey:
Could you possible post a photo of your pump?

I want to have all the fittings ready for when the motors arrive. :D
 
1 pump, 20-30LPM flow; split is outside right at the rear. The reason I didn't do the split inside is the lack of space in there! There's barely enough room to get the hoses alone routed, and even then you've got to watch carefully to avoid kinks. On my personal setup the tubing starts at the pump with 1/4" I.D. tube and then splits into two near the wheel and the last 6-8" is two pieces of 3/16" tubing. If you get the drop-in motor block kit with air cooling the quick release fittings are included to attach the 3/16" tubing to.

This is very similar to the pump I'm using right now:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Medo-Vacuum.../360651240031?pt=BI_Pumps&hash=item53f87d325f
 
..so no one have yet to reply on Eric´s post/pic?

Where are you guys, perhaps it´s the weekend phenomena?

Well well I be the one who reply then, damn it Eric those Buhler´s look absolutely stunning, how can a pair of small DC motors be that sexy I ask myself hahaha? So shiny, I like shiny stuff.. :lol:

Anyways seriously now, I am glad to know that should my refurb Buhler´s ever get damaged I have the possibility to buy new on demand whenever I want to and all I need to do is to cut off excess axle length, attach pully and just bolt right on the motor mount from Eric.

EDIT: Ohh a question guys, anyone of you happen to know if there are any better belts available online that will fit right into CSW? Think it´s 3 ribs on my belt but looks like I have some space over so perhaps a slightly wider 3 rib belt could fit if anyone is available?
Does not matter as long as it will fit and of high quality, less slip with better grip if possible?
As you notice I know absolutely nothing about belts and pullies, just wish I could run with even less tension but same grip levels as stock belt on higher tension. Kinda hard to explain exactly what I mean in English so hope I make myself understood here?
 
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We shall know soon enough, fellas... Fanatec are being very coy about this, aren't they? Can't wait to see if this is what I think it is.

@superslowme, if you go with a wider belt it will have to be a 4-rib, they don't make wider belts without more ribs. The belts are available new on eBay from a seller who IIRC is located in Hungary. I have bought a few with no issues.
 

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