Ferrari in GT? Not a chance.

[McLaren]

Why can't Polyphony put in Koenig cars? They look like Ferraris and Lamborghinis, but tuned to go even faster...

Cause they carry Ferrari/Lamborghini trademark logos.

 

[Michael-GT]

Cause they carry Ferrari/Lamborghini trademark logos.

Oh. Didn't know that. Koenigsegg would've been my other 'I wish that car was in GT5' car choice. In fact, I could kind of see Koenigsegg coming to GT5, unless Project Gotham Racing (Microsoft) has the rights to use this car.

 

[Wolfe]

Cause they carry Ferrari/Lamborghini trademark logos.

TOCA Race Driver 2 had Koenig Testarossas without needing a Ferrari license. The game was even available on PS2, the system that EA held their license for.

Midnight Club 3 Remix has a Gemballa F355, yet no Ferrari license. That game was also released for the PS2.

 

[Dave A]

It wasn't a basic Koenig Testarossa, it was A Koenig Evoluzione or a variation of that model, which is one of th eonly Koenigs that is a Koenig and not a Ferrari, the others all bear Ferrari badging because they still class as Ferrari's. Bear in mind that you may be able to get a licese to display the badge but not the cars, so if the Gemballa F355 is built in a way it no longer classes as a Ferrari, then you might, might just be able to get a licese for the F355 name and badge from Ferrari but nthing more than that, and the get the license for the car from Gemballa since it's officially a Gemballa.

 

[Wolfe]

So Koenig is an "ordinary" tuner company, then?

I already know how Gemballa works.

 

[Dave A]

Err no, I didn't mean that. Most of the models you'll see (if you'll see any) are simply modified Ferrari's, but they do build cars from the chassis up too, hich they do offer on a variety of models, however there arn't that many Koenig's sold as opposed to Koenig tuned Ferrari's. At least that's what I've been told in the past.

 

[JohnBM01]

Polyphony Digital doesn't like Italian cars? They have one of the best Italian car companies in the game that isn't Ferrari or Lamborghini- Alfa Romeo. Alfa Romeo is one of the most legendary marques in motor racing. They've been successful in everything from touring cars, to sportscar racing, and even Formula One(?). And again, this closed-minded point of view is what has driven me crazy about this issue. Pagani makes nice cars whose founder used to be a Lamborghini employee. So you know there is at least some big-name credence going on. Paganis have sort of been underrated depending on who you talk to. I did an old thread on Pagani in the "Cars in General" thread. Do a search there and have a good read. And if PD doesn't like Italian cars, then explain how the Italian companies in GT4 got into the game there (Autobianchi, Cizeta, Lancia, Alfa Romeo, Fiat, and Pagani). Because if they didn't like Italian cars, we wouldn't have the Italian models we have now. And unless you see "Italian cars" as only high-dollar exotics, you're being REAL closed-minded about all of this. Not all Italian cars are 6-figure cars with 220+ mph speed limits.

Now let me shift my focus to Porsche and Lamborghini. Maybe one of the little-known aspects of Porsches is that these are exquisite cars that could be made for all-year usage. The first season of Speed Channel show, "Sports Car Revolution" shown that a Porsche can be a great all-year car. The rest of us know Porsche for high-dollar performance. Even I came across the lustful (and recently retired) beauty known as the Porsche Carerra GT. It was too bad that it was a black car, since I wasn't able to get a clean picture of it from my 2006 Houston Auto Show experience. Everything from a Boxster to the Cayenne was pure Porsche regardless of its form or power. GT2 was the debut of Ruf. There were over eight Rufs in GT2 with my favorite being the Ruf CTR Sport 2. It was wider and more powerful than the regular CTR Sport. I think even Project Gotham Racing 3 had Ruf AND Porsche. Believe it or not, just Ruf. I don't see people complaining about no Porsches in PGR3, so (you know what I'm going to ask. If not...) why GT? If PD can't get Porsche in GT5, then check out the Ruf lineup in PGR3.

Lamborghini WAS in a GT game, but by way of hybriding. I heard it was either in GT3 or GT Concept, but licensing issues led Lamborghini to not have it featured in GT5. The car featured was the JLOC Diablo GT-R raced in the Super GT series (JGTC in its time). * McLaren * reminds me that Lamborghinis weren't really designed to be all-conquering supercars and that practicality was a key focus. Many of us think of "econoboxes" for practicality. I had a little more respect for Lamborghini as he mentioned practicality for Lamborghinis. This Wikipedia link features all the different Lamborghini models at the bottom of the featured link: { http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_Gallardo }. The link itself is about the Lamborghini Gallardo. I mentioned practicality with Lamborghini. Here's a quote I read about the Gallardo from the link provided:

"Although performance is lower than the Murcielago, it is still very high, and the Gallardo has much better rearward visibility and, according to reviewers, is more manuverable as well as more tractable in low-speed traffic, making the Gallardo a much more practical car to drive. It is also much more practical to use in bad weather than most upercars, thanks to rear-based all-wheel drive. Although corporate owner Audi is renowned for its extremely good Quattro AWD system, Lamborghini uses a system of it's own." -Wikipedia entry on the Lamborghini Gallardo

There is also the secretive Lamborghini Canto back in 1998. The picture of this concept car came to me when I was reading an old edition of Road and Track Magazine. In fact, look here: { http://www.lambocars.com/archive/highres/canto2.htm }. That was the only image of the Canto I've seen. Five other pictures can be found hereL: { http://www.lambocars.com/archive/others/canto.htm }. Note that this ws a concept car back in 1998. It's safe to say this car was the precursor for the Murcielago. People have hated on Lamborghini since they have no real racing heritage. There was a one-make racing series for the Lamborghini Diablo called the "Lamborghini Supertrophy." Imagine seeing and hearing 20 or so of these V12 beasts racing around road courses in Europe. More information here: { http://www.lambocars.com/dia/diagtr.htm }.

All three are respectable companies. We just shouldn't be all caught up with these machines like they mean more than life itself.

 

[McLaren]

So Koenig is an "ordinary" tuner company, then?

I already know how Gemballa works.

They are and aren't.

If you go on their website, their cars are classified by the original manufacturer. They aren't called Koenig F355s.

Their tuner cars are called by the full names.
Koenig Ferrari F50
Koenig Lamborghini Diablo

Notice how the Koenig Evoluzione has no manufacturer name in it. The only other Koenig I can think of would be the Koenig C62 that looks like the Dauer 962LM.

Only 2 Hamanns could possibly be included as well. The Laguna Seca 2 and Pole Position. They both carry the BMW logo on them, though the BMW license should be easy to acquire.

 

[Wolfe]

They are and aren't.

If you go on their website, their cars are classified by the original manufacturer. They aren't called Koenig F355s.

Their tuner cars are called by the full names.
Koenig Ferrari F50
Koenig Lamborghini Diablo

Notice how the Koenig Evoluzione has no manufacturer name in it. The only other Koenig I can think of would be the Koenig C62 that looks like the Dauer 962LM.

Ah, I see.

Only 2 Hamanns could possibly be included as well. The Laguna Seca 2 and Pole Position. They both carry the BMW logo on them, though the BMW license should be easy to acquire.

Er...a lapse of memory, there, *McLaren*? BMW has been in the Gran Turismo series since GT2 (albeit just barely in GT3).

Anyway, even if it wasn't, or if Polyphony Digital had to convince BMW to come back for GT5 for some reason, BMW has been really embracing videogames recently...after all, they released that BMW 1-series demo of GT4, and I'm sure they had to bid to become the star car of Need for Speed: Most Wanted.

 

[McLaren]

Must be all that good BS weed I've been sniffing at certain websites.

But yeah, forgot about that.

 

[<_Spike_>]

Polyphony Digital doesn't like Italian cars? They have one of the best Italian car companies in the game that isn't Ferrari or Lamborghini- Alfa Romeo. Alfa Romeo is one of the most legendary marques in motor racing.

Let's not forget Pagini, those Zondas are super cars not to be sniffed at.

 

[Dave A]

He mentioned Pagani.

 

[Holdenluva001]

all i can say is wait until they bring out GT5 and c wats New in it

 

[linuxrules]

You make it sound like Ferrari has some sort of "exclusive" arrangement with someone.. but if you actually look at upcoming games, particularly next-gen games, you'll see that pretty much everyone EXCEPT Polyphony has Ferrari. That's hardly "exclusive".

Its because Ferrari is getting expensive to use and as I have heard so much they really dont need Ferrari. Of course I want Ferrari, dont get me wrong, but just about every other game thats a halfway decent one has Ferrari, so just buy one of those, such as PGR3.

 

[Danny]

all i can say is wait until they bring out GT5 and c wats New in it

I can't wait until doctors can prescribe dictionaries.

 

[Arawn]

It's also been well-established that Mr. "I hate Ferrari" Yamauchi has always been very vocal about wanting Ferraris in GT, and he's been just as upset about it as we have.
...
Not a very bright one, are you? It's a well-established fact that Electronic Arts, until very recently, maintained an exclusive license for Ferrari and Lamborghini for Playstation 2.
As for Outrun 2006... did you ever wonder why Sega didn't release the game years ago when made the Xbox version? Why it wasn't until EA's Ferrari license expired that they were finally able to put a version on PS2?
...
Outrun, which was released only a couple months ago... after EA's license ran out.

The license is expired ??!!!! And KY ,who is just as upset as we are, wants ferrari's !!!! GT5 will certainly have them !!!!! oh wait... no it won't.
It seems something is contradicting in my previous sentence, or is it just me ? Because as we all known, i'm not the brightest

Because if they didn't like Italian cars, we wouldn't have the Italian models we have now. And unless you see "Italian cars" as only high-dollar exotics, you're being REAL closed-minded about all of this. Not all Italian cars are 6-figure cars with 220+ mph speed limits.

Thats correct, not all italians are expensive. Like the 308. You can have one for 20000 or less. you can have a fine Maserati 222 Biturbo for about 10000. Lamborghini? also begins under 20000. All these cheaper older supercars from the 80's are offcoarse slower then many modern cars , even honda's. But they defenately look stunning , have a V8/12 wich sounds great (no catalytic converter or the likes, there was still plenty of clean air back then) and are in my opinion (along with many others) a great addition in this game.

And why there have been Alfa's and Fiat's in previous GT's ? If it were up to KY and PD there would be none, but what many are forgetting is that GT wasn't from PD but from Sony and the only reason PD exists is because KY agreed to let Sony have a big piece of the pie. SCEE needs european cars for a european launch and, among others, italian cars were added.

So, in light of actual fact are you still going to stick to your guns and say that Polyphony is anti-Italian?

Yup, they are as anti-Italian as frozen pizza's from germany.

 

[only_da_b3st]

the makers of gran turismo spend too much money putting in worthless japanese cars that cant make it up to 120 mph!!!!!

 

[Dave A]

No they don't.

 

[Jedi2016]

The license is expired ??!!!! And KY ,who is just as upset as we are, wants ferrari's !!!! GT5 will certainly have them !!!!! oh wait... no it won't.

You still seem awfully certain of that. If you're in posession of such "inside information", do share it with the rest of us. And, for the record, I never said the game would have them. I simply pointed out that the main reason they weren't in previous GTs, the exclusive license, doesn't apply anymore.

And why there have been Alfa's and Fiat's in previous GT's ? If it were up to KY and PD there would be none, but what many are forgetting is that GT wasn't from PD but from Sony and the only reason PD exists is because KY agreed to let Sony have a big piece of the pie. SCEE needs european cars for a european launch and, among others, italian cars were added.

You seem to know a lot about what KY thinks. But you seem to know nothing at all about the relationship between PD and Sony.

 

[Dave A]

Kaz said before GT2 that his aim was to have as many cars from all over the world and as many forms of motorpsort as possible in Gran Turismo.

 

[Tenacious D]

...Just about every other game thats a halfway decent one has Ferrari, so just buy one of those, such as PGR3.

Yuck.... Forza 2, yes. PGR3, no.

 

[Dave A]

PGR3 is a decent game, it's not a sim, but it's a decent game.

 

[Jedi2016]

I'd play PGR if I had a Xbox360, but I don't... Right now, my choices for Ferrari on PS2 are limited to Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2 and Outrun 2006.

 

[Arawn]

You seem to know nothing at all about the relationship between PD and Sony.

This is from the Limited edition "GT4: Driving the game" book.

"December 1997 saw the release in japan of Gran Turismo to wide critical acclaim. By the end of 1998, just seven months after its global release, the game had sold 6.2 million units, making it one of the best-selling video games ever. Kazunori left SCEI in April 1998 to set up Polyphony Digital, the dedicated development house that would continue the GT franchise, albeit in close partnership with Sony Computer Entertainment."

Or to put it simple, KY has his own studio but Sony is still in charge. And if sony thinks adding local car manufacturers in a game improves sales then there will be local cars added, whether KY likes it or not.

 

[JohnBM01]

Time for the proverbial killing of two birds with one stone.

Makers of Gran Turismo spending too much money on worthless Japanese cars that can't even do 120 mph? How biased! Do you ever pay attention to just about all the cars in GT games? Are you telling me that a Civic can't do 135 at best? That even a tuned Mazda AZ-1 can't reach 125? That is the same one-sided bias which infuriates me. So you probably think Codemasters has nothing better to do but put in mostly British and European cars. You probably even think America's Forza group is pretty good in putting in cars ranging from Cadillacs to Saleen S7s while giving everyone else a fat screw you (except Ferrari, Porsche, and Maserati). I know Japan isn't the sportscar capital of the world, but don't you at least credit Japan since they create just about all kinds of automobiles and make plenty of money for them? The people who hate a game like any Gran Turismo are those who say GT is just Japan... and then everybody else. There are only a few championships catered to cars that "can't make it up to 120 mph," so don't think that 120 is as far as you can go. Hell, most cars in Enthusia can't make it up to 120, yet it still remains a fun game even if it takes some getting used to.

Here is a history of Italian companies in GT games past and present:
Lancia (GT2, GT3, GT4)
Fiat (GT2, GT3, GT4)
Autobianchi (GT4)
Pagani (GT3, GT4)
Alfa Romeo (GT2, GT3, GT4)
Cizeta (GT4)

Kazunori Yamauchi and his Polyphony Digital team would have never acheived the "encyclopedia of cars" had they not given other world car companies the time of day and the proper respect. Remember GT1? We had only three countries- Japan, the United States, and the United Kingdom. About 70% of the game's cars were Japanese, but it was still a great game even if you're so hellbent on anything other than Japanese cars. GT2 added German, Italian, and French cars. GT3 added Belgium and Australia. And GT4 would debut Korea and Spain. The one thing I hate is people remembering GT games as "Japan... and everybody else." PD went through all this work to provide a world of automobiles, and you think all they do is spend money on cars no one outside of Japan cares about? Be thankful of the non-Japanese cars you have in GT games since GT2. Don't be an ingrate on this. This is why when I counterattacked someone who said that PD was anti-Italian, I wanted to make it clear that if PD didn't have a heart for Italy, we would have NEVER picked up Italian cars at all. And we would never get Augusta, Aprilia, and Ducati in Tourist Trophy. So silence that talk for good.


Now on to "just about every other decent racing game has Ferrari." This one's simple. Driving Emotion Type-S. Was it ever a GT-killer despite the fact Porsche was included? If you answered no, then congratulations. You lost your own argument. I never say Ferrari's inclusion in a racing game makes a game automatically good. So by this logic, I can pick up a monster truck game and enjoy it because they'll include Ferrari to make it a good game. The underrated "Tokyo Xtreme Racer 3" had DeTomaso and that game was decent. Or maybe everyone's favorite Burnout series (generalization) has Ferraris... or at least ugly mockups resembling Ferraris. So is GT a bad game series because it doesn't have Ferrari? Is it sad that PD can pick up all these different car companies but not Ferrari? Many of us American racing fans wanted muscle cars. We got them in GT2 and GT4. ToCA Race Driver 3 doesn't have Ferrari, Porsche, or Lamborghini. However, they have the next best thing with the GT Tuning Cup. But how many people do you see racing the GT Tuning Cup religiously online? Exactly. That game has fun for all kinds of vehicles from karts to F1 cars. Never judge a racing game on certain car companies. A game can still be a classic even without bigtime companies people been wanting to see for ages.

Don't be surprised if any of what I've discussed has been mentioned too many times before. Unfortunately, not many people are getting the memo.

 

[Lemke]

I dont know if its been mentioned yet but what about Maserati? Its not a Ferrari but its almost as good.

 

[Tankard]

I don't really care about Ferrari's, they may look bad-ass but GT always has something to make up for it. Besides I'd rather have more cars from companies like Pagani or Panoz. And I'd prefer to see companies like Ultima, Courage , venturi and Spice or anything new to make an appearance in GT5.

 

[JohnBM01]

This is funny... I came out of my Daily Driver thread all to come to this pure sports car thread. Nice transistion, or strange circumstance? A car that would probably please some Italian car fans is the DeTomaso Pantera lineup. I say it's Italian despite the fact the cars have Ford engines. Not to mention that I completed a considerable amount of "Tokyo Xtreme Racer 3" with the DeTomaso Pantera GTS. It's a nice car from 1975. Not to mention it's in Enthusia as well.

I sort of can't get that "PD doesn't like Italians" comment out of my mind. As a small rant, get this. PD featured Rome, a number of different Italian cars, not to mention that "Gran Turismo" is in what language? Italian, player! Hopefully I'll get that comment out of my system and down the toilet. As for Maserati, I'm not really a big Maserati fan. Only Maserati I like is the MC12 that Risi Competizione raced in the 2005 ALMS Season as a guest (remember the controversy that took place even before the season began with this car?). There are a number of cars PD can choose from. The best they can do is come up with as many street cars and competition cars as possible. Ferrari has diverse racing history in GT/Sportscar racing and Formula One. I'm sure if PD gets in Ferrari (or at least Porsche and/or Lamborghini), you'll likely bet that PD will likely turn up the heat bringing these cars in. I just don't want to think that PD hates sports cars or any bias crap people like to bring up regarding PD and sports cars in their games.

Granted Ferrari, Porsche, and/or Lamborghini are included in GT5, let's do percentages. Out of 100%, what are the chances that PD provides as many of these cars as possible to silence people's views of PD failing to give sports car fans what they want?

 

[Dave A]

The words sung in the first of GT4's intro are also Italian.

 

[McLaren]

Kaz said before GT2 that his aim was to have as many cars from all over the world and as many forms of motorpsort as possible in Gran Turismo.

I think GT2's front cover also confirms this as well. Though the car on the cover was never featured in GT2, 2 games later, one of it's descendants has.