Ferrari in GT? Not a chance.
- Thread starter NSX-R
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Thats easy....I will list them in order of oldest to newest.
ROAD
Daytona (365 GTB/4) '68
Dino '68
Dino 246GT '69
308 GTB '75
Testarossa '84
F40 '87
F355 Berlinetta '94
F50 '95
550 Maranello '96
Enzo '03
RACE
330 P4 '67
F40 Competizione '89
F333 SP '94
575 GTC '04
And last but not least...
Ferrari F1 '06
- 1,574
Yeah I'll go with that. Screenshots 2008ish, GT5 2009/2010.
! It's not almost certain, it is certain it's been confirmed that Ferrari's are in GT:HD premium and no one is saying otherwise.
- 11,462
- U.K
- Paganisterr
- Ak Paganister
Check this thread. You will find this news is weeks old already.I can't believe this conversation is still going on, when I have just posted that PD most certainly WILL have Ferraris in it. Check out my thread on the GTHD main page if you don't believe me. It has a link to a load of images.
- 1,579
"Victory by Design" has to be one of the greatest car shows ever. That is an example of creating an encyclopedia of a brand. Each of those DVDs goes through a comprehensive racing history, while discussing how those advances translated into the same brand's road cars of the same time. There's a few holes here and there (unavoidable with huge pedigrees like Ferrari & Porsche), but it's exactly what I think GT should be doing:
http://www.g4tv.com/gamemakers/episodes/3863/Gran_Turismo.html
G4TV
If there's anyone who can help GT out the most (if they can get over their own egos), it's Alain de Cadenet and the rest of the team behind VbD. That and either Jim Wangers or Jay Leno. Someone to properly represent Europe, and someone from the US.
The technical problems I couldn't help them with.
- 26,911
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
Alain de Cadenet = ego? I usually think he's a humble fellow who really knows what he's talking about with racing.
As far as Ferrari photos are concerned, I think people will want to do more than just take pictures with Ferraris. I suggest PD find some more locales in Italy to compensate them. I don't know about the use of Ferrari's test track for photos, but a collection of European locales (especially its native Italy) would suffice. Places like Milan, Maranello, and especially Rome would be can't-miss. This is a chance to let the Italian make shine in its GT debut. Speaking of its GT debut, it would a chance to maybe look at the JGTC/Super GT series. I can recall the Dentaire Projet Racing team which fielded a Ferrari 360 Modena. Since PD is big with the JGTC/Super GT, here is a small focus I want to do on them:
--- Ferraris Past and Present in JGTC/Super GT ---
* Ferrari 360 Modena (by Projet Dentaire Racing and Jim Gainer)
^^^ more info at: http://www.d-projet.com/photo/2001dpr/index.html for the 2001 season, and http://www.d-projet.com/photo/2002/index.htm for the 2002 season
This is the JIM GAINER entry: http://supergt.net/supergt/2006/06team/06teams_e/06t011.shtm?dt
* Ferrari 550 Maranello (by Hitotsuyama Racing)
^^^ http://www.italiaspeed.com/2006/motorsport/sportscars/japanese_le_mans_challenge/01/0602.html
* Ferrari F355 (by Team Ferrari Club of Japan)
There were a few more, or at least that's it. Even Porsche and Lamborghini have competed here. So you at least know that perhaps some JGTC/Super-GT specification Ferraris could be included. Away from Ferrari, Porsches and Lamborghinis in Super GT would also be interesting to see. The Japanese Lamborghini Owners Club (JLOC) Lamborghini Murciélago would be interesting to include. I've asked for your essential Ferrari list. Now I'm going to ask you for your essential Ferrari RACE CAR list now. What racing models should be the can't miss models? I'm talking about track cars here and maybe even some tuned Ferraris made for racing. What has you interested on this front?
As far as Ferrari photos are concerned, I think people will want to do more than just take pictures with Ferraris. I suggest PD find some more locales in Italy to compensate them. I don't know about the use of Ferrari's test track for photos, but a collection of European locales (especially its native Italy) would suffice. Places like Milan, Maranello, and especially Rome would be can't-miss. This is a chance to let the Italian make shine in its GT debut. Speaking of its GT debut, it would a chance to maybe look at the JGTC/Super GT series. I can recall the Dentaire Projet Racing team which fielded a Ferrari 360 Modena. Since PD is big with the JGTC/Super GT, here is a small focus I want to do on them:
--- Ferraris Past and Present in JGTC/Super GT ---
* Ferrari 360 Modena (by Projet Dentaire Racing and Jim Gainer)
^^^ more info at: http://www.d-projet.com/photo/2001dpr/index.html for the 2001 season, and http://www.d-projet.com/photo/2002/index.htm for the 2002 season
This is the JIM GAINER entry: http://supergt.net/supergt/2006/06team/06teams_e/06t011.shtm?dt
* Ferrari 550 Maranello (by Hitotsuyama Racing)
^^^ http://www.italiaspeed.com/2006/motorsport/sportscars/japanese_le_mans_challenge/01/0602.html
* Ferrari F355 (by Team Ferrari Club of Japan)
There were a few more, or at least that's it. Even Porsche and Lamborghini have competed here. So you at least know that perhaps some JGTC/Super-GT specification Ferraris could be included. Away from Ferrari, Porsches and Lamborghinis in Super GT would also be interesting to see. The Japanese Lamborghini Owners Club (JLOC) Lamborghini Murciélago would be interesting to include. I've asked for your essential Ferrari list. Now I'm going to ask you for your essential Ferrari RACE CAR list now. What racing models should be the can't miss models? I'm talking about track cars here and maybe even some tuned Ferraris made for racing. What has you interested on this front?
- 3,207
I get the feeling I may be on john's block list or something.
When I visted the Galleria Ferrari in July, the car that made my knees weak most (not including the 599s on the streets and the TVRs) was the 250 LM. Beautiful thing. Not the prettiest face, but from any angle it is striking. Won Lemans too.
The JGTC Ferrari's achieved little success in GT500 and while the F360s are competitive in GT300, they arent winning championships. Still, Id like to see some. Not as essentials, but possibly as downloads down the road.
When I visted the Galleria Ferrari in July, the car that made my knees weak most (not including the 599s on the streets and the TVRs) was the 250 LM. Beautiful thing. Not the prettiest face, but from any angle it is striking. Won Lemans too.
- 26,911
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
I don't have too much to share except for this car I've seen in magazines recently:
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=2830
That's the Ferrari P4/5. I thought it was pretty ugly at first. It's actually quite slick. This is more of modernized retro. Only that this modernized retro is more of a fusion of past and present. Would you race this thing in a future GT?
That's all from me because I have to make ready for a possibly wet, stormy, and dismal Sunday and Monday. Texas weather for you.
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=2830
That's the Ferrari P4/5. I thought it was pretty ugly at first. It's actually quite slick. This is more of modernized retro. Only that this modernized retro is more of a fusion of past and present. Would you race this thing in a future GT?
That's all from me because I have to make ready for a possibly wet, stormy, and dismal Sunday and Monday. Texas weather for you.
- 1,574
That thing looks sweet, but if it's very rare, I don't think we'll see it soon. Hopefully a few years down the line when GT being an "encyclopedia of cars" becomes a reality, maybe it'll appear for download...
- 26,911
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
Some of you in the "Auto News" forum may remember that we did a thread on this. There was sort of a "doctored" photo of something like this. But after we seen this Ferrari P4/5, we all became a bit more jovial about it. I would have to imagine that this car's drag coefficient (CD) has to be insane. Almost as insane as the Peugeot 406 or that other Peugeot I can't remember. This thing looks pretty nice.
In terms of rare cars from the Ferrari/Porsche/Lamborghini tandem, one of my favorites was the Lamborghini Canto { http://www.lambocars.com/archive/others/canto.htm }. This was the one I remember seeing in a Road and Track{/U] magazine once: { http://www.lambocars.com/archive/highres/canto2.htm }. This car was supposed to be more of the Diablo replacement at the time. I actually like the Lamborghini Murciélago. I even seen one of those at a Houston Auto Show once. It was just so cool to be next to one. For a company that isn't really heralded for racing history, Lamborghini makes some wonderful automobiles, don't you think? Lamborghinis still remain as one of those sell-my-soul-to-the-Devil-to-get-one car companies.
Porsche certainly has some can't-miss automobiles if you want to impress GT fans with Porsche (granted we get Porsche). On the racing front, you HAVE to include the Porsche 917 and Porsche 962c for starters. You'll also have to include the beautiful Porsche 911 GT1 that won Le Mans. Here's the Wikipedia entry on Porsches past and present:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche
I'd also include the ill-fated Careera GT. What pained me so much about the Carerra GT was that Porsche couldn't put it into GT racing. Imagine a race-modified Carerra GT up against some of today's lone competition in the ALMS- the Corvette C6-R and the Aston Martin DBR9. It was still a pretty face while it lasted. You have to be foolish to not include the 911 lineup. It's one of the most classic lineups of cars almost anywhere. And PLEASE don't forget racing variants of the 911. The 911 race cars have been One would also be foolish to not put in the beautiful Porsche 550 Spyder. And speaking of Spyders, imagine trying to get one of these in GTHD and/or GT5: { http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_RS_Spyder }. The next Porsche RS Spyder is looking lovely. I don't know if they are going to change the engine (or at least modify the original) or not. It's a nice-sounding engine which somewhat reminds me of my true love (no, my other one)- the Ferrari 333SP.
As I've said, this thread was intended on Ferrari, but it doesn't mean that people can still talk about Porsche and Lamborghini as well. Let's keep this thread moving, people. Go for it.
In terms of rare cars from the Ferrari/Porsche/Lamborghini tandem, one of my favorites was the Lamborghini Canto { http://www.lambocars.com/archive/others/canto.htm }. This was the one I remember seeing in a Road and Track{/U] magazine once: { http://www.lambocars.com/archive/highres/canto2.htm }. This car was supposed to be more of the Diablo replacement at the time. I actually like the Lamborghini Murciélago. I even seen one of those at a Houston Auto Show once. It was just so cool to be next to one. For a company that isn't really heralded for racing history, Lamborghini makes some wonderful automobiles, don't you think? Lamborghinis still remain as one of those sell-my-soul-to-the-Devil-to-get-one car companies.
Porsche certainly has some can't-miss automobiles if you want to impress GT fans with Porsche (granted we get Porsche). On the racing front, you HAVE to include the Porsche 917 and Porsche 962c for starters. You'll also have to include the beautiful Porsche 911 GT1 that won Le Mans. Here's the Wikipedia entry on Porsches past and present:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche
I'd also include the ill-fated Careera GT. What pained me so much about the Carerra GT was that Porsche couldn't put it into GT racing. Imagine a race-modified Carerra GT up against some of today's lone competition in the ALMS- the Corvette C6-R and the Aston Martin DBR9. It was still a pretty face while it lasted. You have to be foolish to not include the 911 lineup. It's one of the most classic lineups of cars almost anywhere. And PLEASE don't forget racing variants of the 911. The 911 race cars have been One would also be foolish to not put in the beautiful Porsche 550 Spyder. And speaking of Spyders, imagine trying to get one of these in GTHD and/or GT5: { http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_RS_Spyder }. The next Porsche RS Spyder is looking lovely. I don't know if they are going to change the engine (or at least modify the original) or not. It's a nice-sounding engine which somewhat reminds me of my true love (no, my other one)- the Ferrari 333SP.
As I've said, this thread was intended on Ferrari, but it doesn't mean that people can still talk about Porsche and Lamborghini as well. Let's keep this thread moving, people. Go for it.
- 26,911
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
Did any of you see Monday Night Football between the Chicago Bears at the Arizona Cardinals? The halftime segment featured a sneak preview of Jay-Z's new video called "Show Me What You Got." Make your case for hip-hop music, but the Jay-Z video had a cameo appearance by two popular drivers- "fanboy" friendly Dale Earnhardt Jr., and the sexiest brunette in all of racing- Danica Patrick. The video featured a Jay-Z and Dale Jr. in a Ferrari F430 Spyder up against Danica Patrick in a Pagani Zonda (not sure which model). The video coverage was something old-school Need for Speed types will appreciate- a little race on country roads between the two. If this was a race in GTHD or GT5 on a real track, I personally think the Zonda vs. F430 match is sort of a mismatch in the Zonda's favor.
I think one must imagine all the different matchups that will happen when Ferrari is matched up against certain cars. I think most people frustrated with types of cars in the GT series will love nothing more than to beat Skylines up. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if one person used a Ferrari Enzo (granted we get the Enzo, or even its racing counterpart- the Maserati MC12) against a bunch of street-stock Skylines to make PD and Nissan crap in their pants (or whatever bottoms the person in question is wearing). How many of you would agree that the "Supercar Festival" would have been a bit more interesting with Ferrari's inclusion?
My primary issue is still that supercars handle pretty poorly. The usual rule of thumb is that most supercars and high-end sports cars carry high speed capabilities. They are also quite powerful to boot. Usually, handling suffers when you have a more powerful car capable of high speeds. The one thing I hated about GT4's Supercar Festival was that you had to use Standard or Sports Tires, and I'll tell you why. The reason why is that the handling suffers with most of them. Since GT3, I've basically learned that adding horsepower to the cars only hurts their handling ability. Name me a high-horsepowered car that still maintains wonderful handling characteristics despite lots of engine tuning. It is likely why most supercars are mid-engined. Mid-engined cars help give you better handling, but they are tougher to drive. I always say that front-engined cars give you the pull you need to grip the road and have better traction. Mid-engined cars give you that handling advantage since many of them are so agile. All of this technical talk reminds me of the GTR Tuning Cup in ToCA Race Driver 3. My favorite of the three available cars was the Koenig GT (looks like a Ferrari 360 Modena). It had all the agility you need to clear corners successfully (looks like a certain Porsche I can't identify). It had almost no understeer racing around courses like Bathurst or Mallory Park. The Gemballa GTR 750 Evo had four-wheel drive and a lot of power. Traditionally, four-wheel drive isn't really good for road racing. It works well for touring cars, but ask how the Bugatti EB110 did in the 1994 24 Hours of Le Mans. The worst of the three was the Koenig GT-D (think Lamborghini Diablo). I'm sure it had to be quite powerful with about 600 or so horsepower. This car had HORRIBLE understeer, bad handling dynamics, and perhaps takes a while to get the brakes to actually do their job in the corners. I don't know if supercars actually have the sort of horrible dynamics or not in real life. How do I know? I only race cars in video games.
Care to contribute? I'm done here.
I think one must imagine all the different matchups that will happen when Ferrari is matched up against certain cars. I think most people frustrated with types of cars in the GT series will love nothing more than to beat Skylines up. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if one person used a Ferrari Enzo (granted we get the Enzo, or even its racing counterpart- the Maserati MC12) against a bunch of street-stock Skylines to make PD and Nissan crap in their pants (or whatever bottoms the person in question is wearing). How many of you would agree that the "Supercar Festival" would have been a bit more interesting with Ferrari's inclusion?
My primary issue is still that supercars handle pretty poorly. The usual rule of thumb is that most supercars and high-end sports cars carry high speed capabilities. They are also quite powerful to boot. Usually, handling suffers when you have a more powerful car capable of high speeds. The one thing I hated about GT4's Supercar Festival was that you had to use Standard or Sports Tires, and I'll tell you why. The reason why is that the handling suffers with most of them. Since GT3, I've basically learned that adding horsepower to the cars only hurts their handling ability. Name me a high-horsepowered car that still maintains wonderful handling characteristics despite lots of engine tuning. It is likely why most supercars are mid-engined. Mid-engined cars help give you better handling, but they are tougher to drive. I always say that front-engined cars give you the pull you need to grip the road and have better traction. Mid-engined cars give you that handling advantage since many of them are so agile. All of this technical talk reminds me of the GTR Tuning Cup in ToCA Race Driver 3. My favorite of the three available cars was the Koenig GT (looks like a Ferrari 360 Modena). It had all the agility you need to clear corners successfully (looks like a certain Porsche I can't identify). It had almost no understeer racing around courses like Bathurst or Mallory Park. The Gemballa GTR 750 Evo had four-wheel drive and a lot of power. Traditionally, four-wheel drive isn't really good for road racing. It works well for touring cars, but ask how the Bugatti EB110 did in the 1994 24 Hours of Le Mans. The worst of the three was the Koenig GT-D (think Lamborghini Diablo). I'm sure it had to be quite powerful with about 600 or so horsepower. This car had HORRIBLE understeer, bad handling dynamics, and perhaps takes a while to get the brakes to actually do their job in the corners. I don't know if supercars actually have the sort of horrible dynamics or not in real life. How do I know? I only race cars in video games.
Care to contribute? I'm done here.
- 5,768
- Anoka, MN
hey, you forgot a popular one..."the 1961 Ferrari 250 GT California"!
The Vanishing Boy
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- 9,000
- Quezon City, Philippines & Las Vegas, NV
- GTP_VanishingBoy
- Vanishing Boy
OT-> Is it me, or this thread is becoming a Ferrari Wishlist Thread!? Please correct me if I'm wrong, thanks. (:
-> I think we have to lock this thread now because Ferrari is already in GTHD/GT5, there is no point of discussing about it anymore. Unless someone will start up a thread like: Porsche/Maserati/Koeniggsegg/etc. in GT? Not a chance.
-> I think we have to lock this thread now because Ferrari is already in GTHD/GT5, there is no point of discussing about it anymore. Unless someone will start up a thread like: Porsche/Maserati/Koeniggsegg/etc. in GT? Not a chance.
- 5,768
- Anoka, MN
yah, i agree. this thread is a bit long, wish-listy, and outdated. it should be locked up...
- 26,911
- Houston, Texas, USA
- JMarine25
Well yeah, but I still want to offer speculation on this company's inclusion into the GT series. It's a dual-purpose deal for me. Certainly the issue that Ferrari will never appear in a GT game is outdated. I still think there's SOME purpose to this. I just don't want to make... okay. I don't do wish lists. I've basically been suggesting on possible Ferraris to be included. So I don't know how you'd be able to state what exactly I'm trying to bring vs. what the thread is really about.
- 1,579
Much more interesting. What was the supercar list in GT4? The Zonda, GT, S7, and SLR? You had to resort to concept cars just to add variety. That shouldn't have to happen. Top-end sports cars are needed to provide the wide range of drives that can be had. Having the Fiat 500 at the bottom and Ferrari/etc. at the top allows such a huge range of performance, and helps to prove that fun drives can be had at either end. Up until now, we've had tons of bottom-feeders, but very little of the upper crust. Hopefully, Ferrari is just the beginning of what will be coming, and not just downloadable.
This could be just PD's JDM bias, but most supercars don't handle too well in the real world. Many are designed from an aesthetic perspective first (Lamborghini, Koenigsegg, etc.), performance objective (Veyron), or marketing (XJ220, 959, SLR McLaren) at the expense of the drive itself. Only the McLaren F1 acheived the balance between performance, driveability, aesthetics, ergonomics...everything. It was the first (and so far, only) supercar to be thoroughly engineered from all doctrines simultaneously with no allowance for compromises. It's only above 200MPH that things get hairy, but that's because it's a 17 year old design and was the best that could be done at the time. Other cars are "faster", but none offer the drive and comprehensive ability of the F1.
- 30,021
- Cuddington, Cheshire
- JDA1982
There was plenty of supercars in GT4, the three Zondas, SLR, S7 and Ford GT wern't the only production ones, the Cizeta and Speed 12 were another two straight off the top of my head, then you have the R390 and the XJ220 and the RUF CTR2 and the Tommy Kaira ZZ-II all of which are real road cars.
As for Supercars not handling well in the real workld, if you mean on the streets then yes, but even there the McLaren F1 wasn't as good as a sportscar, on the track there's been plenty of supercars that handle fine. I think your giving the F1 too much credit there, why is the F1 the only supercar to be designed with no compromises that hits the mark? Imo there are others that hit the mark better, as for compromises, what's your definition of a compromise, if the cars was planned to have something from the start then that's in no way shape or form a compromise in the cars design.
As for Supercars not handling well in the real workld, if you mean on the streets then yes, but even there the McLaren F1 wasn't as good as a sportscar, on the track there's been plenty of supercars that handle fine. I think your giving the F1 too much credit there, why is the F1 the only supercar to be designed with no compromises that hits the mark? Imo there are others that hit the mark better, as for compromises, what's your definition of a compromise, if the cars was planned to have something from the start then that's in no way shape or form a compromise in the cars design.
- 24,005
- It/It
- GTP_TheCracker
I'm sure most, if not all supercars do handle well in the real world - they wouldn't be very 'super' if they didn't! I've never read a bad handling review of any supercar - except maybe the Ferrari 348 on the limit.
The thing is, all supercars, unless they are some sort of homologation special (Porsche 911 GT1, Merc CLK-LM etc) are designed to be road cars - not track cars. You will drive them in GT4 and compare them unfavourably to a full race-spec car like a JTGC because in real life the JTGC car, even with a similar level of power, will be the better track car because it's designed to work best on a track. Try driving a JTGC on the road and you'd think it was dreadful.
- 5,768
- Anoka, MN
good job szwadiak, i was wondering when and if someone would figure that one out! but hey, it would still be a good Ferrari to put in!
- 1,574
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