FFB 1.12 Update
- Thread starter DRambo
- 758 comments
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332i
(Banned)
- 855
- Morocco
- yadeegson
They shouldn't have been doing it anyways. All they were doing was burning their motors out quicker than everyone else. That's besides missing a ton of force feedback. "But it felt so good!". Ok, but again - you were missing a ton of FFB. "I know but resistance inherently = realism...I think...maybe...right? No? Hm."
Get over it. It was wrong before, whether you liked how it felt or not. This is not the first FFB update and it won't be the last.
That said, it is better for G27 users. Just a matter of screwing with settings.
They were trying to compensate for an inherent G25/G27 mechanical FFB deadzone by boosting the FFB to insane levels to make it stiffer around center thus causing FFB clipping and removing any minor detail at all. I understand the G25/G27 are cheaper entry level wheels, but people always try to boost the FFB to make up for the design of the G25/G27 and end up ruining the FFB completely. People just need to accept the FFB deadzone or buy a new wheel that doesn't have it.
- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
Personal preference I guess. I found it difficult at first to be able to push hard and counter slides, but eventually I figured it out and it became very rewarding. IMO (and this is just MO) with a DS3 you can do things that would be impossible in a real car (going lock-to-lock in a nanosecond, for example) but with a wheel you were just about spot on with what a real car could do and how it would react (about as close as you can hope for with 8 year old hardware anyway). With the lighter (non-existent) wheel weight you were suddenly able to do things that were more DS3-like and less life-like. IMO that's not a good thing, but my opinion only covers me and doesn't need to apply to anyone else.
Not in my experience. I've been testing a batch of FF cars over the last week to prepare for upcoming parity events and before 1.12 if I turned more into the understeer I got more understeer, eventually it would stop steering and just plow straight (as a FF would do). After 1.12 if I just give more steering input the understeer goes away and I suddenly have more grip (which defeats the purpose of modeling understeer into the game IMO).
This post does not represent the thoughts or opinions of all GTP members. Your results may vary.
- 122
- xXHeroStar1988Xx
I didn't know about hot link, I'm going check tomorrow morning before I head to work. Thanks for post.
Dragonwhisky
Premium
- 6,840
- the land of green, hills, rocks & whiskey
- Dragonwhisky
The G27 is hard coded to remove deadzone with a button combo. I've been using it for over a year , since discovering this thread. It really made a difference in both GT5 and 6, GTA 2013 and 2014.
- 72
- Hong Kong
- chauming803
Having heard about the 'ninja' update,I am actually a bit worried.Is the improved,more realistic feel(new wheel features added in 1.12) still here after the update?Or these features are taken away and things are just back to the origin(w/ no lively feel)?Hopefully the update won't kill the new feel(I am using G27)Someone please tell me!:-D
I was happy with Sierra and the Nismo GT-R (beastly) Quite honestly though, why they gave us yet ANOTHER Toyota FT-1 just in a different colour scheme is beyond me. Also, the VGT Toyota is really just a supped up standard FT-1 concept car. I would rather they drop the VGTs and give us more real life cars, even if we only get 1 every 3 months or something.
- 17,048
- United Kingdom
No problem, I respect your personal preference and all that, but just to give you a different perspective... on a DS3 you are not going from lock to lock in a nano-second... you're giving a peak possible output from one end of the spectrum to the other in a Nano-second, and then the game is deciding, mostly proportionally to speed, how much lock to actually put into the physics model (this is evidenced easily in the data logger) - the net result is the same, it's easier to correct with a DS3, but the mechanics of it aren't related so much to how quickly you can move the wheel/stick, as it is the game smoothing your inputs - which I doubt (hope) the wheel coding does very much of.
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- 12,018
- Indianapolis
- BrandonW77
It does make a good effort at compensating the inputs, and nanosecond was a bit of an exaggeration to make a point. When watching replays I can usually tell if a driver is using a DS3 because I can see his front wheels twitching back and forth at an impossibly fast rate. Wheel users cannot give inputs that fast, though with the weakened wheel weight it's possible to get closer to that speed. Even with the game compensating, a DS3 user can transition from one input to another a lot faster than a wheel user which certainly affects their performance to some degree (whether for the better or worse depends on what you want from the game). But everyone uses the game for different things, I'm one that likes it to feel as close to the real thing as possible so I wouldn't want to be able to make those kind of quick inputs, and this is why the very light feeling in the wheel was disappointing. Glad to hear it's been at least somewhat remedied for those of us who prefer a heavier feel. 👍
Is that changing the wheel lock and/or degree of rotation? That is just work around to the mechanical FFB deadzone and if that's the case with any workaround, there are other trade-off's that come with it.
Dragonwhisky
Premium
- 6,840
- the land of green, hills, rocks & whiskey
- Dragonwhisky
So far as I have been able to determine, it creates a soft lock at the prescribed setting. The wheel can still, mechanically, be turned past the soft lock, but the in game tire angle won't increase any after that point is reached. Does that make sense and answer your question?
To add to this, what appears to happen when you initiate one of those setting options is, it recalibrates the wheel travel to whichever axis values the wheel uses to reach the limits earlier in wheel travel. The settings are reset to default every time you exit the game or reboot the PS3.
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Yea, I assume though again you're just changing the steering lock to make it more sensitive thus making the wheel assume its been turned further than it actually thus creating more FFB at an earlier degree of rotation. It may help with the FFB deadzone but it still has to be a compromised solution in that the FFB isn't exactly accurate as what you should be feeling.
- 72
- Hong Kong
- chauming803
So is that wheels still suffer a bit from the reduced resistance,but in return provide a more realistic feel?If that's so,I am just even more impressed with the work of PD.Sorry about asking ao much,since I'm 16 and live in Hong Kong,I haven't gotten to feel how real cars feel,let alone race cars...Thanks guys;-)
- 243
- Belgium
- GT-R-Jona
Hotfix has definitely improved resistance on my DFPro! It's not like it was prior 1.12 but i do feel my car again in a proper manner.
I was used to driving FFB 7 with powersteering and now have both FFB-settings on 10 and no more powersteering. (Both in simulation mode)
It does show potential and it does feel a bit more pc-simmy. It is getting used to because on pc my DFPro automatically goes 270° and i enjoy that. On gt it always puts 900° and it never troubled me neither, until now because i do feel u have to steer just that little bit more in grippy corners otherwise it understeers out.
I do wish to ad that yesterday's tryout was my worst ever experience of feeling the car, so i am very glad they fixed this rather quickly for gt-Norms
I was used to driving FFB 7 with powersteering and now have both FFB-settings on 10 and no more powersteering. (Both in simulation mode)
It does show potential and it does feel a bit more pc-simmy. It is getting used to because on pc my DFPro automatically goes 270° and i enjoy that. On gt it always puts 900° and it never troubled me neither, until now because i do feel u have to steer just that little bit more in grippy corners otherwise it understeers out.
I do wish to ad that yesterday's tryout was my worst ever experience of feeling the car, so i am very glad they fixed this rather quickly for gt-Norms
Dragonwhisky
Premium
- 6,840
- the land of green, hills, rocks & whiskey
- Dragonwhisky
Well for me, that deadzone was critical to me feeling the steering was closer to real. With the almost 4 inchs left to right of deadzone the G27 has at default calibration settings, the wheel just made me feel like I was driving a 1965 pick up truck with some really loose steering. I had ran the G27 without know this option existed for about 7 months and I didn't really notice any changes in FFB after using it. I always set it to the 660 degrees of rotation. This does allow me to reach "lock" without having to hand over hand the wheel to get there. The improvements I noticed almost immediately with being able to turn in and reach and maintain traction limits were practically astounding. I compare the wheel's turning behavior to my IRL daily driver's behavior, and even though the daily driver has 900* of wheel lock, there is no dead zone in it. So far as I know, my DD has hyrdaulically assisted rack and pinion steering and the G27 in game has more feed back than my car, even with it having been set at FFB4 and now FFT4 with FFS10.
So far as I can tell Blkout, I've agreed with pretty much everything you've posted about this issue. The different FFB levels were much lighter than in pre 1.12 versions but 1.12 seems to have added quite a bit of "depth" to what is sensed and transmitted by the wheel to the user's hands. I like it and hope they haven't gone the other way entirely with this latest hot fix, which I won't get until tonight and will once again have to go test out a little before racing later this evening.
- 459
- T2
- GregOr1971
As a DFGT user / previous ffb on 3-5/ , new (1.12) FFB effects feels better than before (more ffb definition) , but as a side effect, wheel felt much lighter as before ,even when I tried FFB torque at max 10 .
After todays "ninja" and initial test , I think wheel weight (torque) is back as it was pre 1.12 or at least it was amped a bit, so FFB torque set on 3 on DFGT , feels like pre 1.12 FFB on 3 , or at least close to it.
PS: I think that PD realized that some users used high FFB settings (8-10) ,to compensate weak wheel motors and simulate wheel weight (torque) somehow similar to real car. Problem is , that "weak motors" in DFGT,G25/27... can't really reproduce torque of a real wheel , so by maxing FFB on 10 , you may got that close to the real wheel torque feel , but on the other hand you lost all of ffb definition because of clipping. Hence reduced ffb torque.
After todays "ninja" and initial test , I think wheel weight (torque) is back as it was pre 1.12 or at least it was amped a bit, so FFB torque set on 3 on DFGT , feels like pre 1.12 FFB on 3 , or at least close to it.
PS: I think that PD realized that some users used high FFB settings (8-10) ,to compensate weak wheel motors and simulate wheel weight (torque) somehow similar to real car. Problem is , that "weak motors" in DFGT,G25/27... can't really reproduce torque of a real wheel , so by maxing FFB on 10 , you may got that close to the real wheel torque feel , but on the other hand you lost all of ffb definition because of clipping. Hence reduced ffb torque.
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I can understand where you're coming from. I own a Thrustmaster T500 and a TX. Both are great wheels, but I use the TX with Forza 5 since its XB1 compatible, however that game has a FFB deadzone built into it. Its not in the wheel itself because it works great on the PC, but Forza 5 most certainly has about 20-30 degrees of deadzone in either direction around center and it really takes the immersion down a notch when you don't feel connected to the road.
- 1,175
- In front of you.
- F1_Racer68
I will say that the recent hotfix has improved on the changes introduced in 1.12 update. Overall though, even before the hotfix, I was pleased with the changes introduced in 1.12.
I drive a G27 and use both street and racing cars regularly. I always found that the FFB prior to 1.12 was too "strong". The resistance in the wheel when turning was so strong that it masked the fine details of the road such as bumps, wheel hops, tire slip, etc. Ironically, it is exactly this resistance strength that those that are complaining want back. They just don't realize what they have gained. Yes, the wheel feels lighter, but you feel so much more now.
Now I do fully admit that the resistance was too weak after the 1.12 update. I feel that now that the hotfix has been applied the FFB levels are almost perfect. I run an endurance league where we run VERY FAST tire wear in order to encourage pit strategy. In my initial testing since the update I have been able to gain at least 1 additional lap on my tires due to the improvements in the FFB. I am able to feel the loss of front grip much sooner, and therefore am able to adjust to it quicker. This means that I am not abusing my front tires as much as I was before.
Overall, a vast improvement in my opinion.
I drive a G27 and use both street and racing cars regularly. I always found that the FFB prior to 1.12 was too "strong". The resistance in the wheel when turning was so strong that it masked the fine details of the road such as bumps, wheel hops, tire slip, etc. Ironically, it is exactly this resistance strength that those that are complaining want back. They just don't realize what they have gained. Yes, the wheel feels lighter, but you feel so much more now.
Now I do fully admit that the resistance was too weak after the 1.12 update. I feel that now that the hotfix has been applied the FFB levels are almost perfect. I run an endurance league where we run VERY FAST tire wear in order to encourage pit strategy. In my initial testing since the update I have been able to gain at least 1 additional lap on my tires due to the improvements in the FFB. I am able to feel the loss of front grip much sooner, and therefore am able to adjust to it quicker. This means that I am not abusing my front tires as much as I was before.
Overall, a vast improvement in my opinion.
- 177
- United States
- ex_stream_tuna
Agree F1Racer,
the hotfix cured the issue of "numbness" described by people. it was a bug which was fixed where the setting for max tq was essentially locked on 1. Now, 10 is pretty strong. Some might still want it stronger, but I advise against asking for that and taking it down to 8 probably for any DFGT user at least.
You don't want to drown out that lovely new FFB profile they've programmed. Too much resistance on the wheel could sort of "blur" the inputs from the sensativity setting.
I have mine at 8/10 and loving it!
the hotfix cured the issue of "numbness" described by people. it was a bug which was fixed where the setting for max tq was essentially locked on 1. Now, 10 is pretty strong. Some might still want it stronger, but I advise against asking for that and taking it down to 8 probably for any DFGT user at least.
You don't want to drown out that lovely new FFB profile they've programmed. Too much resistance on the wheel could sort of "blur" the inputs from the sensativity setting.
I have mine at 8/10 and loving it!
I think some people don't understand how powerful the strength of ffb should be to turn the steering wheel.
any modern car with power steering above 30 miles an hour are a cinch to steer. Above 60 it gets a bit lighter still.
Bless those who used ffb 8+ previously, did you really think driving a car took as much effort as parking a non power assisted Miata? Lol.
any modern car with power steering above 30 miles an hour are a cinch to steer. Above 60 it gets a bit lighter still.
Bless those who used ffb 8+ previously, did you really think driving a car took as much effort as parking a non power assisted Miata? Lol.
NEMESiSNiSMO
(Banned)
- 15
- United States
- nemesisnismo
How I see it is if the wheel hits max FFB strength just steering, when a curb, bump etc is hit there is no additional FFB to simulate the effect, only one way to go from max. Many drivers have used low FFB settings because they discovered more detail in the FFB as it is lowered giving room in the FFB strength for the effects to be simulated. I believe PD improved the FFB detail a small amount in 1.12 but now they implemented a new system/set up to restrict the FFB strength so that the effects they are trying to simulate through the wheel can be felt on all settings.
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