Fight for $15. (Fast food protest)

[McLaren]

So you've gone from trying to justify a $15/hour salary for minimum wage to automation is going to take everyone's jobs & force everyone out of employment. And you won't realize how that raise pushed for the automation process even more.

Yes, I phrased those sentences as statements, not questions.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Yes, that's correct. I push for higher minimum wage because the sooner automation takes over everything, the better. It's not anyone's fault that it's going to happen. It's human nature.

 

[McLaren]

Yes, that's correct. I push for higher minimum wage because the sooner automation takes over everything, the better It's not anyone's fault that it's going to happen. It's human nature.

That's not entirely correct if a $15/hour minimum raise accelerates the process so companies can cut down on staff or eliminate them altogether to avoid paying that wage.

You can't explain how that's better.

 

[Exorcet]

Why not let it progress naturally, the negative effects of min wage still apply. Better to step on all the people working now for the sake of people who aren't around yet?

 

[Northstar]

That's not entirely correct if a $15/hour minimum raise accelerates the process so companies can cut down on staff or eliminate them altogether to avoid paying that wage.

You can't explain how that's better.

I think he's at the point where instead of admitting defeat he's just going for the completely ridiculous arguments instead.

 

[samurai8juice]

I think he's at the point where instead of admitting defeat he's just going for the completely ridiculous arguments instead.

I think he's at the point where he is being extremely sarcastic.

 

[Swagger897]

Hmm ... I call bs on automation for everything.. If computers still to this day can't accurately predict weather, I don't think it will be extensive as you think it to be..

Because I'll be damned when a computer and the weatherman both get it right.

 

[ildd]

Hmm ... I call bs on automation for everything.. If computers still to this day can't accurately predict weather, I don't think it will be extensive as you think it to be..

Because I'll be damned when a computer and the weatherman both get it right.

Weatherman and a baseball hitter; the only job where you can fail 70% of the time and still be considered "good"

 

[TenEightyOne]

Weatherman and a baseball hitter; the only job where you can fail 70% of the time and still be considered "good"

Weathermen; I think that it's true of all meteorologists regardless of gender.

Baseball hitter... how is rounders even a sport anyway?

 

[Famine]

Yes, that's correct. I push for higher minimum wage because the sooner automation takes over everything, the better.

If you're wanting to eliminate poverty, this is just about as far away from your goal as you can possibly get.

 

[MatskiMonk]

@Swagger897 Taking orders and cooking burgers is not the same as predicting what a global system of hundreds of variables is going to do next week. There's already a large degree of automation in lots of food manufacturing plants, it's just not that common yet to extend or integrate that to public food outlets, but all the technology exists.

 

[Exorcet]

Hmm ... I call bs on automation for everything.. If computers still to this day can't accurately predict weather

A lot of that is down to limitations in our knowledge. We don't know how to very accurately predict weather, so we can't tell the computers what logic to use. As our knowledge gets better, it becomes easier and easier to program the computers.

There is a big push for automation where I work because it reduces human error and workload. Our processes still require engineer oversight, but the machines have managed some impressive feats. An automated optimization process was able to out-optimize an experienced engineer in a demonstration. All it had to do was apply rules to the design process and follow those rules. The engineer came up with the best design in the end, but how long will that last?

 

[Swagger897]

Taking orders and cooking burgers is not the same as predicting what a global system of hundreds of variables is going to do next week.

Umm... Sure it is. You have a job, boss tells you to predict weather, you do your job.

But that's not the point. The point is whether or not everything is going to be automated.

A lot of that is down to limitations in our knowledge. We don't know how to very accurately predict weather, so we can't tell the computers what logic to use. As our knowledge gets better, it becomes easier and easier to program the computers.

Have you ever talked to a meteorologist before, because it's more of the other way around, that computers can't predict the future at all, and are guided by the meteorologist.

 

[Exorcet]

If computers can't make correct predictions, it means their models are flawed, which would go back to what I said. When you have everything defined mathematically, computers exceed human limits by huge percentages.

The human element comes in because long time meteorologists develop a sense for how weather works even if they can't completely quantify the system. It's similar to how aerodynamic models used to be inviscid and completely ignored drag. It was a problem with the model that human experience could overcome.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Umm... Sure it is. You have a job, boss tells you to predict weather, you do your job.

No, it really isn't. They are both jobs, so in the technical sense, yes. But that's where the similarities end. An automated fast food restaurant is quite a lot different than an accurate weather forecast system.

There's no guess-work in a McD's. They have set cook times for everything. They've already got automated ordering kiosks in a few locations here. How much harder would it be to have a simple system that raises and lowers baskets of fries into oil?

Have you ever talked to a meteorologist before, because it's more of the other way around, that computers can't predict the future at all, and are guided by the meteorologist.

A computer is only as good as the people that programmed it.

 

[FoolKiller]

Automation will replace just about everything, eventually. Just let it happen.

Yeah, that's what most of us have been arguing for, natural progression in the market economy.

Though, I do see that you have allowed your defense of your position to become automated.

Yes, that's correct. I push for higher minimum wage because the sooner automation takes over everything, the better.

We ask you questions and this is the stuff we get back?

You are avoiding defending your statements by either: Trolling with heavy sarcasm or completely changing your story and claiming this is what you have always said in order to make every question seem pointless. Either way, not working and not looking good.

 

[MatskiMonk]

But that's not the point. The point is whether or not everything is going to be automated.

Everything is a fairly general statement to be fair, but you should understand the difference in having machines and computer replicate, reproduce, reduce and streamline, human actions (in other words Automation), and Forecasting from simulations and models... Automating weather forecasting would be people getting it right first, then programming a computer to do what they did - but until the computer program is told what to do correctly, it won't get it right.

We supply a couple of million components a month the are used in an automated production process within the medical industry, the failure rate in assembly is less than 0.2%... that's the relatively easy bit.... forecasting what the customer will want in 3 months time.. that's much harder, and can vary by 50%

 

[CodeRedR51]

A computer is only as good as the people that programmed it.

Exactly. And for every computer there's at least one person that works to maintain it.

Computer automation might take over a large part of the work force in the future, but you still need a human work force to maintain said computers.

 

[Famine]

Exactly. And for every computer there's at least one person that works to maintain it.

Not full time. One person working full time could easily be looking after 200 computers or more - just ask any school IT technician.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Not full time. One person working full time could easily be looking after 200 computers or more - just ask any school IT technician.

I didn't say for every single computer.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Exactly. And for every computer there's at least one person that works to maintain it.

Define "maintain".

I'm guessing that you haven't heard of embedded systems.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Define "maintain".

I'm guessing that you haven't heard of embedded systems.

Parts break, software changes, etc, etc. A human being has to do that.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

Parts break, software changes, etc, etc. A human being has to do that.

Why does a human have to do that? And software can quite easily stay the same if the function of the system doesn't need to change.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Why does a human have to do that? And software can quite easily stay the same if the function of the system doesn't need to change.

Depends on the job. I use data acquisition software in my job and it's updated every year even though our testing hardly changes. Software improves, you can't tell me it doesn't.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Depends on the job. I use data acquisition software in my job and it's updated every year even though our testing hardly changes. Software improves, you can't tell me it doesn't.

But why does that require human intervention.. what part is unique to the Human mind that means it couldn't be scripted to do it itself?

 

[CodeRedR51]

But why does that require human intervention.. what part is unique to the Human mind that means it couldn't be scripted to do it itself?

Well you have to program it to tell it where to find the software for one. Then you have to make sure it's received, downloaded and using the software properly. You guys are funny defending this automation stuff like your life depends on it, even the smartest computers and machines in the world have humans around to maintain them.

 

[R.S]

Be reminded that Mc'ds or BK cannot be made to look good no matter how much pride you take, the raw product is rubbish, the cooking(heating) equipment is rubbish and the time restrictions allowed to make the item is insufficient to do anything beyond slap it together. It's all about low cost and fast fast fast food (yeah it's called fast food). You can't expect fresh perfectly formed salad, there is not the means to inspect, filter and throw out slightly wilted or wrongly cut salads.

The burgers in the photos have the most premium, freshest selection of ingredients, probably hand cut. The burgers are constructed offset so the layers appear more lush and the lighting/photography carefully done. These advertising burgers are made not in 10 seconds and have not used the product from the working kitchen I assure you.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Well you have to program it to tell it where to find the software for one. Then you have to make sure it's received, downloaded and using the software properly. You guys are funny defending this automation stuff like your life depends on it, even the smartest computers and machines in the world have humans around to maintain them.

And what exactly do you use to determine of the the software was received, downloaded and be used properly.. I'm guessing you must not use computers... if it's not possible for a computer to check these things.

 

[McLaren]

Be reminded that Mc'ds or BK cannot be made to look good no matter how much pride you take, the raw product is rubbish, the cooking(heating) equipment is rubbish and the time restrictions allowed to make the item is insufficient to do anything beyond slap it together. It's all about low cost and fast fast fast food (yeah it's called fast food). You can't expect fresh perfectly formed salad, there is not the means to inspect, filter and throw out slightly wilted or wrongly cut salads.

The burgers in the photos have the most premium, freshest selection of ingredients, probably hand cut. The burgers are constructed offset so the layers appear more lush and the lighting/photography carefully done. These advertising burgers are made not in 10 seconds and have not used the product from the working kitchen I assure you.

So, the product remains crap & the employees can't do anything to make it better. You only make a stronger argument for why it's absolutely unnecessary to increase their pay.

 

[CodeRedR51]

And what exactly do you use to determine of the the software was received, downloaded and be used properly..

Manually going in there to make sure? Really not rocket science here...

I'm guessing you must not use computers... if it's not possible for a computer to check these things.

I use a computer every day. And it requires my input to work properly. Not to mention the software I use gets updated manually, by a human being, every year. When something stops working, a human being fixes it. Other items I use every day have to be calibrated, by a human being, yearly. Everything needed to acquire data has to be set up and controlled by a human. None of this can be automated without a human touching something.

If you seriously think a computer can maintain and repair itself without outside help from a human being, I'd sure love to see you create one. By all means, go right ahead.