FITT - Moving on to GT6!

[krenkme]

I know when arranging a shootout the host tries to get a good selection of cars, and try to eliminate the one or two that will dominant the competition.... but sometimes this just is impossible to do.

In the two shootouts I ran there were some dominant cars, but the selection was good, so I was confident that not everyone would pick the fastest, because people want to see if they can surprise people with there choice.

For myself, I pick a car I like and want to tune. Sometimes it works, most times it doesn't, but I enjoy the fun and the feedback I get from the testers.

I suggest that you make a list of cars, and let people choose. You'll get the ones that pick the fastest, but you'll also get the ones that want to see if they can keep up with the fast cars too. Plus if you do get three or four of the same car, it is interesting to see how they all compare 👍.

I'm in for whatever happens, just as long as there is a big choice to choose from

Just my two brain cells

 

[VTiRoj]

I'm in the same boat as krenkme, I just pick whatever I like out of the list of cars given and see how high up the board I can get it. If people want to choose the fastest just to increase their e-sausage, let them. The rest of us will still have fun. 👍

 

[trackripper123]

Krenkme and Roj have it spot on. 👍

 

[CyKosis1973]

I'm in the same boat as krenkme, I just pick whatever I like out of the list of cars given and see how high up the board I can get it. If people want to choose the fastest just to increase their e-sausage, let them. The rest of us will still have fun. 👍

Leave my e-sausage outta this...

{Cy}

 

[Motor City Hami]

So which would everyone want to do?

4wd Wagon shootout

or

FF Hatchback shootout

 

[praiano63]

What's wrong with sausage ?????

​

EDIT:
I've already chosen my dominant unbeatable car

Honda ODYSSEY '03

 

[trackripper123]

So which would everyone want to do?

4wd Wagon shootout

or

FF Hatchback shootout

The wagon shootout's car list was already formed and the idea was hanging around for some time. I prefer the wagon, but not necessarily 4WD.

 

[DigitalBaka]

I think since the wagon idea is already mostly fleshed out we should go with that. I think we leave the full list on with the two classes but let folks enter one or the other so we don't get into a huge ordeal with testing. 535/S2 and 425/C3? Fudge with the PP as needed but I like the idea of using the harder tires so they don't become a tuning bandaid, if you will. The results will be what they will be. It's fun to be at the top but it's also fun to see what you can do with something from the dregs of the bunch *coughskylinesedancough*

 

[VTiRoj]

Leave my e-sausage outta this...

{Cy}

But it's so big!

So which would everyone want to do?

4wd Wagon shootout

or

FF Hatchback shootout

Just a wagon shootout, no need for a 4WD limitation I think. 👍

What's wrong with sausage ?????
​

EDIT:
I've already chosen my dominant unbeatable car

Honda ODYSSEY '03

That sort of sausage is fine. At least it's edible.

 

[trackripper123]

But it's so big!

Just a wagon shootout, no need for a 4WD limitation I think. 👍

That sort of sausage is fine. At least it's edible.

Well depending on your preferences, so is the other kind...

God that was beneath me.

 

[Motor City Hami]

So can we agree on the list? If so, I will write it up and host it.

525PP 4wd on Sport Medium Tires
P Audi RS 6 Avant ’08
S Audi Pikes Peak Quattro '03
S Audi RS 4 '01
S Audi RS 6 Avant ’02
S BMW 120d ’04 (might not achieve the PP level)
S BMW 120i ’04 (might not achieve the PP level)
S Land Rover Range Stormer Concept '04
S Lexus IS300 SportCross '01
S Mazda MX-Crossport Concept '05
S Mitsubishi Airtrek Turbo-R ‘02
S Mitsubishi Legnum VR-4 Type V ‘98
S Nissan Stagea 25t RS Four S '98
S Nissan Stagea 260rs Autech Version ‘98
S Nissan EXA Canopy L.A.Version Type S ’88 (won't achieve PP level)
S Subaru Impreza Sport Wagon STi (Type-I) '00
S Subaru Impreza Sport Wagon WRX STi Version VI '99
S Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 2.0GT '03*
S Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 2.0GT Spec-B '03*
S Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 3.0R '03*
S Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon GT-B '96*
S Toyota Altezza Gita AS300 '01
S Toyota Caldina GT Four ‘02
S Toyota RSC '01
S Volvo 240 GLT Estate '88 (won't achieve PP level)



Edit: I already know that I will tune the Audi RS4. It is the only one in this list that I can stand to look at for the time it will take to tune it. Yes... chosen purely on looks, much like many of my past girl friends... and those didn't all work out all that well either.

 

[trackripper123]

Erm... Was I wrong in thinking there were meant to be two classes?

 

[CSLACR]

So can we agree on the list? If so, I will write it up and host it.

525PP 4wd on Sport Medium Tires
P Audi RS 6 Avant ’08
S Audi Pikes Peak Quattro '03
S Audi RS 4 '01
S Audi RS 6 Avant ’02
S BMW 120d ’04 (might not achieve the PP level)
S BMW 120i ’04 (might not achieve the PP level)
S Land Rover Range Stormer Concept '04
S Lexus IS300 SportCross '01
S Mazda MX-Crossport Concept '05
S Mitsubishi Airtrek Turbo-R ‘02
S Mitsubishi Legnum VR-4 Type V ‘98
S Nissan Stagea 25t RS Four S '98
S Nissan Stagea 260rs Autech Version ‘98
S Nissan EXA Canopy L.A.Version Type S ’88 (won't achieve PP level)
S Subaru Impreza Sport Wagon STi (Type-I) '00
S Subaru Impreza Sport Wagon WRX STi Version VI '99
S Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 2.0GT '03*
S Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 2.0GT Spec-B '03*
S Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 3.0R '03*
S Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon GT-B '96*
S Toyota Altezza Gita AS300 '01
S Toyota Caldina GT Four ‘02
S Toyota RSC '01
S Volvo 240 GLT Estate '88 (won't achieve PP level)



Edit: I already know that I will tune the Audi RS4. It is the only one in this list that I can stand to look at for the time it will take to tune it. Yes... chosen purely on looks, much like many of my past girl friends... and those didn't all work out all that well either.

I hadn't seen the S4...My brother owns a 2005 S4 (4.2 V8 6Spd) so if we're doing that 2-car thing it's covered.

 

[iainoflo85]

Where will these be tested? I'm happy to test with these - I like trying out different cars, some that I have never driven or would not consider driving (like wagons).

 

[CSLACR]

Did everyone like the scoring system in the Nurb shootout? (some form of MCH's mixed by Johnny and/or me, I'm really not sure exactly how it came about)

I found it difficult to tell if it rewarded DC enough or too much, I'm not sure.

 

[trackripper123]

The system worked well, I would prefer a 75/25 split times to DC though.

 

[praiano63]

Erm... Was I wrong in thinking there were meant to be two classes?

Me too !??? Something about this??

 

[CSLACR]

The system worked well, I would prefer a 75/25 split times to DC though.

For reference:

550PP:
Praiano - 90/10: 98.250
CSLACR - 90/10: 97.893

CSLACR - 75/25: 96.994
Praiano - 75/25: 95.625



450PP:
CSLACR - 90/10: 99.278
Praiano - 90/10: 99.075
Esoxhntr - 90/10: 98.469

Praiano - 75/25: 98.211
CSLACR - 75/25: 98.195
Esoxhntr - 75/25: 96.317

To check any score, you multiply their lap score by 0.75, and multiply DC by 2.5, and add those two numbers together. (exactly numerical to 100 constant, for any dc percentage)

 

[Johnnypenso]

Although I would prefer a standard scoring system between all shootouts, so long as the total is always 100, it could work to let each organizer choose the weighting according to what type of contest they want to run. You may want something even 50/50 where the feel of a car is just as important as the outright lap time. To me though, even a 75/25 weighting is heavily biased towards the DC part. It's awfully tough to make up a second on the track which will only gain you one point, much easier to make up 1/25 in DC.

Another idea I mentioned which didn't gain a lot of traction was having two separate categories of winner. One based solely on lap times and one based solely on DC points. If you separate the two, there's no weighting to worry about.

 

[DigitalBaka]

I'm OK with the list there, Hami. Lots of stuff I haven't tried. Looks like I have to give up one of my Audis but I'll live. Maybe I'll invade Outlaw/Clueless territory and go SUV!

As far as the scoring, I think it worked well. It was a good balance I think. If you wanted more weight to the DC without going overboard I wouldn't go higher than 85/15...80/20 is pushing it.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Another idea I mentioned which didn't gain a lot of traction was having two separate categories of winner. One based solely on lap times and one based solely on DC points. If you separate the two, there's no weighting to worry about.

Like it.

Erm... Was I wrong in thinking there were meant to be two classes?

I was getting mixed messages on one or two classes. The second class to me seemed a bit of a mishmash. This originally started as a wagon challenge. The second class is really two wagons, three sort of wagons and a few hatch backs. The BMW would probably walk on everything else in the group, so it was starting to seem a bit pointless to me. Plus, there was mention of only being able to join one class.

We can do either. I would probably cut the Alfa 147's from the list.

 

[XDesperado67]

I'll only be entering my Caldina even if you decide to add a second class.
Bit busy here currently.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Ok. This is the last time I will be asking questions. Speak now... I will try to make everyone happy.

Car selection open. Not going to limit this to one or two people per car. Pick what you want to tune.

Now we just need to pick tracks. Will take suggestions, but already know that track selection will be all over the map. Anyone up for Top Gear Test Track for the 450PP class? I do like the idea of using Special Stage Route 5 for the big class and Clubman Stage Route 5 for the smaller class.

525PP 4wd Wagons/SUVs on Sport Medium Tires
P Audi RS 6 Avant ’08
S Audi Pikes Peak Quattro '03
S Audi RS 4 '01
S Audi RS 6 Avant ’02
S Land Rover Range Stormer Concept '04
S Mazda MX-Crossport Concept '05
S Mitsubishi Airtrek Turbo-R ‘02
S Mitsubishi Legnum VR-4 Type V ‘98
S Nissan Stagea 25t RS Four S '98
S Nissan Stagea 260rs Autech Version ‘98
S Subaru Impreza Sport Wagon STi (Type-I) '00
S Subaru Impreza Sport Wagon WRX STi Version VI '99
S Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 2.0GT '03*
S Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 2.0GT Spec-B '03*
S Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 3.0R '03*
S Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon GT-B '96*
S Toyota Caldina GT Four ‘02
S Toyota RSC '01

Awards:
Top three on lap times
Top three on drivers choice
Not mixed... separate rankings.

Special Stage Route 5, Tokyo R246 or Rome

450PP Comfort Soft Tires
S BMW 120d ’04
S BMW 120i ’04
S Chrysler PT Cruiser '00
S Honda ELEMENT '03
S Honda ODYSSEY '03
S Lexus IS300 SportCross '01
P Mini Cooper S Countryman '11
S Nissan Cube EX '02
S Nissan EXA Canopy L.A.Version Type S ’88
S Pontiac Vibe GT '03
S Renault AVANTIME '02
S Scion XB '03
S Toyota Altezza Gita AS300 '01
S Toyota bB 1.5Z X Version '00
S Volvo 240 GLT Estate '88

Awards:
Top three on drivers choice only. Think this might be a just for fun group. Take some pressure off of choosing the fastest car and make it about tuning something that you like.

Top Gear Test Track, Suzuka East or Clubman Stage Route 5 Night?

 

[Onboy123]

Hmm…SSR5 for 525PP and Suzuka East for 450PP, TGTT needs higher PP for it to be fun, really. At least, for me.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Cape Ring South / Autumn Ring Reverse for 525PP, and Trial Mountain Reverse for 450PP, all of these tracks were used on Deadnuts, very fun track to run on, for tuning, hotlap or racing.

Give these track several laps to find out how fun it is

Cape Ring South have 2 big esses, one high speed near the end, 2 hairpins, some elevation as well, the track also tests the brakes on the car ( last turn braking into the hairpin from high speed esses )

 

[VTiRoj]

Suzuka East in 450PP cars is boring as hell though. You can almost full throttle the whole course. I like the idea of using SSR5 for 525PP and CSR5 for 450PP. The testers will probably appreciate only having to learn 1.2 circuits too.

Now, onto the most important question of them all. Do I choose the Toyota bB or the Scion xB?

Ninja edit: Actually I'm with Ridox for 450PP, Trial Reverse.

 

[XDesperado67]

I think deep forest (either direction) would be good for the 525PP class. High speed sections, tight sections, some areas of rougher track surface.
Problem with SSR is that they are perfectly smooth tracks and personally don't offer much variety in the turns.
That said I'll try setting the Caldina up for any track selected no problem.

 

[DigitalBaka]

I'm good with the night tracks. 👍

 

[Johnnypenso]

Now we just need to pick tracks. Will take suggestions, but already know that track selection will be all over the map. Anyone up for Top Gear Test Track for the 450PP class? I do like the idea of using Special Stage Route 5 for the big class and Clubman Stage Route 5 for the smaller class.

Special Stage Route 5, Tokyo R246 or Rome

Top three on drivers choice only. Think this might be a just for fun group. Take some pressure off of choosing the fastest car and make it about tuning something that you like.

Top Gear Test Track, Suzuka East or Clubman Stage Route 5 Night?

Has Top Gear ever been used in a shootout? I think it would be something different, although it's a bit flat and featureless. I detest all the Special/Clubman Stage tracks with a passion. Cape Ring Inside is little used but a challenging shorter track as well. It has tight hairpins, big sweepers, uphill, cambered corners and challenging esses. Autumn Ring Reverse is fun to throw cars around on.

For the faster cars, Trial Mountain, Deep Forest, and Autumn Ring Reverse would be good choices, anything to give the suspension a workout.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Where I am leaning on tracks right now.

525PP at Deep Forest or SSR5

450PP at Top Gear or CSR5