FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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Looks like you skipped right past this one when you were searching for videos on YouTube.
 
So, assuming the GT5 DLC implementation for normal customers on Tuesday is the same stupidity as it was for Amar and I wash my hands of GT5 entirely as a result, is Forza 4 good enough to get a 360 for?


Completely serious.
 
Toronado
is Forza 4 good enough to get a 360 for?


Completely serious.
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Er....I want to say yes, but I've never been comfortable suggesting purchases above $100.


Is it good enough to justify that kind of purchase? To me, yes, it's definitely got the quality and fun to it to where if I didn't have an Xbox, I would buy one just to have this game after the experience I've had in these past few days.

It's just that I'm not ready to outright recommend spending that kind of money just to be able to play a single game. That's not to say that it's not worth it, just that I'm not going to say it absolutely is. So if you do decide to go for it, don't look at me if you're not happy.

 
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^ I can tell it's FM4 from just looking at the preview picture, because the lighting on the Camaro is betterr than anything you can see in FM3.

Anyways, after playing the game for a bit, I guess I can now leave this thread or, at least, stop debating the qualities of GT and FM as much as I did before. To me, this whole debate is over. I see no point in making my case anymore. FM4 doesn't need to be defended, the game should speak for itself, really. Physics, graphics, sound, features, gameplay - whatever, I was impressed by basically everything it offers.. It still lacks night racing, weather and an accurate Nordschleife, but, frankly, who cares? I expected a lot from FM4, a whole lot more than I expected from GT5 (which says a lot about how hyped I was for it), and it still managed to exceed my expectations. By a fair bit.

Sure, it still has some issues here and there, and I am not going to deny it. The game would be twice as awesome if I could drive a car through the night and rain on an accurate 'Ring. But there's just so much more to making a great game, even a great sim than that.

So, what I am trying to say is: Criticize, debate or flame away. FM4 is, to me, the best car-centric game I've played to date. It gets the balance between simulation and being a fun game right. It offers enough consistency that I don't feel like one or two aspects of the game took precedence over the rest. If someone doesn't want to get it becauuse of whatever reason, fine. Perfectly fine with me.

All I'm saying is, you're probably missing out on a pretty great game. On the other hand, if you feel like you couldn't approach it with an unbiased, open mind, don't bother...

Anyways, I'm off again. To ForzaPlanet, to FM4. I've been debating and bickering in this thread far too much, if I'm honest. But, well, it was fun while the whole debate lasted, but, alas, it's just over, in my opinion.

So, have fun in here and try to not give the mods too much of a headache, guys. :D
 
I spent an insane amount of time with Forza today, and I feel like I have a pretty good feel for it.

When GT5 is at it's best, it really has no rival. The problem is that the game is very rarely at it's best. Forza delivers an outstanding experience in basically every situation.
 
sugarload
Its delivered to your house, and can be as loud as a real car. It has incredible engineering. The point being, at this point its not down to the software as much, as you can find 'simulation software' sure enough, but you need the hardware that makes that software come alive.
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It is still running the same simulation software that you said it was better than. This would not make GT5 the ultimate sim due to the simulator setup being good. A few people here have very good rigs with decent sound systems. This is probably more expensive but there are more expensive rigs out there that are probably better.

Bogie 19th
It's true though.
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How?

Luminis
^ I can tell it's FM4 from just looking at the preview picture, because the lighting on the Camaro is betterr than anything you can see in FM3.

Anyways, after playing the game for a bit, I guess I can now leave this thread or, at least, stop debating the qualities of GT and FM as much as I did before. To me, this whole debate is over. I see no point in making my case anymore. FM4 doesn't need to be defended, the game should speak for itself, really. Physics, graphics, sound, features, gameplay - whatever, I was impressed by basically everything it offers.. It still lacks night racing, weather and an accurate Nordschleife, but, frankly, who cares? I expected a lot from FM4, a whole lot more than I expected from GT5 (which says a lot about how hyped I was for it), and it still managed to exceed my expectations. By a fair bit.

Sure, it still has some issues here and there, and I am not going to deny it. The game would be twice as awesome if I could drive a car through the night and rain on an accurate 'Ring. But there's just so much more to making a great game, even a great sim than that.

So, what I am trying to say is: Criticize, debate or flame away. FM4 is, to me, the best car-centric game I've played to date. It gets the balance between simulation and being a fun game right. It offers enough consistency that I don't feel like one or two aspects of the game took precedence over the rest. If someone doesn't want to get it becauuse of whatever reason, fine. Perfectly fine with me.

All I'm saying is, you're probably missing out on a pretty great game. On the other hand, if you feel like you couldn't approach it with an unbiased, open mind, don't bother...

Anyways, I'm off again. To ForzaPlanet, to FM4. I've been debating and bickering in this thread far too much, if I'm honest. But, well, it was fun while the whole debate lasted, but, alas, it's just over, in my opinion.

So, have fun in here and try to not give the mods too much of a headache, guys. :D
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Tell me your thought process for the parts I bolded. Thanks.
 
saidur_ali
ITell me your thought process for the parts I bolded. Thanks.
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Simple. Even without those, it's still the best experience I've had with a car related game on a console. So, I don't really care that it's not there because, really, I knew the game wouldn't be perfect and while I expected a lot, I knew not to expect this from the get go. On the other hand, if it was in, it would, of course, make the game better. If it was done proplery, that is, without compromising anything else. If they managed to pull that off, FM4 would still be a lot better than it currently is.

So, if I have the choice between having day and night racing, for example, and the consistency and broad focus the game has now, I'll take the latter, no questions asked. If it was possible to get both, then I'd be all over it.

Since it doesn't seem feasible to get all of that done with the given hardware and timeframe and that I much rather have a consistent game than something that focuses on a few aspects and neglects consistency, I can't be bothered by that decision to not include it.
 
Luminis
Simple. Even without those, it's still the best experience I've had with a car related game on a console. So, I don't really care that it's not there because, really, I knew the game wouldn't be perfect and while I expected a lot, I knew not to expect this from the get go. On the other hand, if it was in, it would, of course, make the game better. If it was done proplery, that is, without compromising anything else. If they managed to pull that off, FM4 would still be a lot better than it currently is.

So, if I have the choice between having day and night racing, for example, and the consistency and broad focus the game has now, I'll take the latter, no questions asked. If it was possible to get both, then I'd be all over it.

Since it doesn't seem feasible to get all of that done with the given hardware and timeframe and that I much rather have a consistent game than something that focuses on a few aspects and neglects consistency, I can't be bothered by that decision to not include it.
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GT5 for me is the best experience I've had with a car game. What I really like about GT5 is the driving experience when trying to drive the cars on the limit. We all have different tastes and wants out of a game, many who play Forza will probably like the way Forza drives instead.

Going from "who cares?" to making the game twice as awesome if it was included does sound strange to me though. Sounds like you are trying to devalue a certain games feature to me. Dan seems to think it would be doable on the current 360 so maybe for Forza 5.

Anyway GT5P was very consistent. PD could have made GT5 more consistent but all that would have been doing is deleting content out the game. PD and other top first party studios do not have the resources to pull off what T10 are doing. I just hope what T10 are doing pushes PD to expand but I can't really see it happening anytime soon for the required level. It is very good for Forza fans / people who like car games though. Usually Forza is the cheapest top 360 game to buy but it is also the 360 game with the most content and also the most resources and money gone into developing it.
 
Damn, played for like 12 hours straight today, started with Autovista in the morning, completed a couple of divisions in the afternoon and then ended up staring at my cars in the homespace for hours.
GT 5 really didn't deliver this to me, I've hardly had a session of more than 2 hours with it.

Also the showroom and menu music blows my head away, absolute awesomeness.
 
OGL
Damn, played for like 12 hours straight today, started with Autovista in the morning, completed a couple of divisions in the afternoon and then ended up staring at my cars in the homespace for hours.
GT 5 really didn't deliver this to me, I've hardly had a session of more than 2 hours with it.

Also the showroom and menu music blows my head away, absolute awesomeness.
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Do you mean that literally or you had breaks in between? 12 hours sounds like a lot either way.
 
What he is saying is very simple to understand. He is saying, yes it would be cool to add night and weather, but right now? Who cares, its not essential to the core experiance of Forza, it does not need to rely on that to draw people in. It is A+++ as it is right now.

Yes GT5 is great when trying to drive on the limit. FM4 is better in this regard, the cars feel a lot more unique than in GT5 and helluva lot more fun. And I can drive a much better selection of cars in FM4. Yes GT5 has 1000 cars, but less than a quarter are drivable from the cockpit, there are barely any British sportscars (Morgan, Noble, big selection of Astons, Radical, all in FM). I go into GT5 and cant decide what car to drive, simply because not all of them come out and say drive me I am interesting. FM4 has 500 interesting, different and very cool cars. Cars I want to drive.
 
saidur_ali
Do you mean that literally or you had breaks in between? 12 hours sounds like a lot either way.
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Just a bit, went for a snack, but really spent the whole day with the game.👍:drool:

Also have to say about collision physics - the best I've seen, no more inadequate stuff like flying 100 meters above the ground like in FM3/GT5. Really good, even though it was just an experiment and I don't usually drive toward the incoming traffic.
 
saidur_ali
Going from "who cares?" to making the game twice as awesome if it was included does sound strange to me though. Sounds like you are trying to devalue a certain games feature to me.
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Maybe I should have worded my thoughts differently, I'll admit that. What I'm trying to say is, I don't feel like I'm playing an incomplete game because it doesn't offer weather or day and night cycles. That's why I said consistency and a coherent experience are more important to me than bullet points. Leave a feature out and do everything else well enough, and I won't miss it.

If that feature can be added afterwards in full glory, maybe on the next release, I'm all for it and it'll make the game just that much better.

saidur_ali
Dan seems to think it would be doable on the current 360 so maybe for Forza 5.
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He also mentioned that they weren't willing to make the sacrifices needed in order to get it into FM4.

In simple terms:
FM4 without sacrifices and day/night/weather > FM4 as it is > FM4 with sacrifices and day/night/weather.

That's my take on it. I know I wasn't going to get the first option, and I prefer the current one to the third. So, yeah, I don't care that it's not in as I never deemed the first one possible. If someone was to come up with option one now, I'd of course love it.

MildAshers
What he is saying is very simple to understand. He is saying, yes it would be cool to add night and weather, but right now? Who cares, its not essential to the core experiance of Forza, it does not need to rely on that to draw people in. It is A+++ as it is right now.
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So, I suppose my point wasn't that hard to get, afterall :D
 
MildAshers
What he is saying is very simple to understand. He is saying, yes it would be cool to add night and weather, but right now? Who cares, its not essential to the core experiance of Forza, it does not need to rely on that to draw people in. It is A+++ as it is right now.

Yes GT5 is great when trying to drive on the limit. FM4 is better in this regard, the cars feel a lot more unique than in GT5 and helluva lot more fun. And I can drive a much better selection of cars in FM4. Yes GT5 has 1000 cars, but less than a quarter are drivable from the cockpit, there are barely any British sportscars (Morgan, Noble, big selection of Astons, Radical, all in FM). I go into GT5 and cant decide what car to drive, simply because not all of them come out and say drive me I am interesting. FM4 has 500 interesting, different and very cool cars. Cars I want to drive.
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I get what he is trying to say after his reply. However it seemed very contradictory at first.

FM4 is not better for me in this regard judging by the demo that is. Cars have two styles, first is a lot of understeer or the second is just sliding. The hard part of Forza 4 in terms of driving on the limit is getting the car to not understeer and the limit on the sliding cars don't really feel like a limit as you are really always in control due to the nature of the physics. All cars in GT5 are drivable in cockpit view now. GT5 has many cars people want to drive too, well for me there is quite a lot in there anyway. There are Fiat 500s to the X2010, good range of cars and unique experiences.

OGL
Just a bit, went for a snack, but really spent the whole day with the game.👍:drool:
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1 or 2 hours at a time is usually enough for me on any game with a decent break in between. I guess time will fly since it is a new game.


Luminis
Maybe I should have worded my thoughts differently, I'll admit that. What I'm trying to say is, I don't feel like I'm playing an incomplete game because it doesn't offer weather or day and night cycles. That's why I said consistency and a coherent experience are more important to me than bullet points. Leave a feature out and do everything else well enough, and I won't miss it.

If that feature can be added afterwards in full glory, maybe on the next release, I'm all for it and it'll make the game just that much better.


He also mentioned that they weren't willing to make the sacrifices needed in order to get it into FM4.

In simple terms:
FM4 without sacrifices and day/night/weather > FM4 as it is > FM4 with sacrifices and day/night/weather.

That's my take on it. I know I wasn't going to get the first option, and I prefer the current one to the third. So, yeah, I don't care that it's not in as I never deemed the first one possible. If someone was to come up with option one now, I'd of course love it.


So, I suppose my point wasn't that hard to get, afterall :D
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Wording could have been better. I get what you are trying to say though.

This is why I mentioned FM5 might have these features.

You did explain what you are trying to say though again, it is more or less the same post as your previous reply shortened.
 
I just want to say without GT5 Jason Ornondes (I know I said that wrong but he is the man who drives for Nissan in the LMP2 class at Le Mans) we wouldn't even recodnise the name or skill.
 
MildAshers
Wait. you have only played the demo?

come back after playing the game.
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The physics can't have changed that much surely.

jrkiwiboy
I just want to say without GT5 Jason Ornondes (I know I said that wrong but he is the man who drives for Nissan in the LMP2 class at Le Mans) we wouldn't even recodnise the name or skill.
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He is Lucas Ordoñez . Don't get what you trying to say though.
 
saidur_ali
The physics can't have changed that much surely.



He is Lucas Ordoñez . Don't get what you trying to say though.
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Thanks for the name. What I'm trying to say is that GT5 was a tool used to demonstrate Lucas' skill and to further hone in that skill. I don't know about Forza but if you can bring a virtual racer into the international board then I think it has suceeded as a simulator and tool. Its what GT academy is all about. And that seems quite special to me
 
jrkiwiboy
Thanks for the name. What I'm trying to say is that GT5 was a tool used to demonstrate Lucas' skill and to further hone in that skill. I don't know about Forza but if you can bring a virtual racer into the international board then I think it has suceeded as a simulator and tool. Its what GT academy is all about. And that seems quite special to me
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Jordan Tresson is now champion in his first year too. I think though that it should probably work with quite a few games as people from other games would join in to compete for the top prize. There are a lot of primarily GT players in the GT Academy leaderboards though.
 
Luminis
...
Anyways, I'm off again. To ForzaPlanet, to FM4. I've been debating and bickering in this thread far too much, if I'm honest. But, well, it was fun while the whole debate lasted, but, alas, it's just over, in my opinion.

So, have fun in here and try to not give the mods too much of a headache, guys. :D
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My sentiments exactly... by stating my opinions on this thread I thought I was talking to other racing game enthusiasts looking the same "basic" experience. I didn't think so much would be based on the platform (PS3, Xbox, or PC) or some type of loyalty to a particular "game". I have a buddy that will not buy any car unless it is a Chevrolet - I guess that explains there isn't a point in these types of discussions.
I was excited to have a new game that fit most the things I look for in a virtual racing game. With that said, I have to move on to Forza Planet where there is "less" bickering on this VS discussion - which is really a moot point. No game will excel in every area. Forza 4 is a welcome "addition" to my stable of virtual racers. The best "all around", IMO, in that stable (fall 2011). I still play my other game genre's for areas they excel.

Forza 4: 75% of my time.
GT5: 3%
F1 2011: 7% (Xbox)
Dirt 3: 5% (PS3)
Shift 2: 5% (PS3)
PC Sims: 5% (GTR Evo, Race On, GTR 2, rFactor, GTL)

To each their own... it's all about having fun in the end!
 
TBanff
Forza Ring GP


Uploaded with ImageShack.us



GT5 Ring GP


Forza Indy


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GT5 Indy


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Just a quick comparison I did this afternoon. Apologies for not matching the lighting better, but as you can see both games are very comparable I think. Perhaps, slightly more detail in GT5. Glass seems better looking on Indy with GT. Some extra detail and tens in Forza which is nice.

The Ring to me looks to have slightly more building detail in GT5 but the reflection on Forza is appreciated. Overall, though I think GT takes the prize overall. But I'm sure they are comparisons, like I read before about the Top Gear track where the detail is greater on Forza than GT, so this is hardly conclusive.

But hopefully this was constructive enough to warrant some photos.
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This for me sums it up GT5 does look better overall, what i do like about forza over GT5 are the car sounds, custom paint jobs, details of car modding but the for me GT5 does everything else better
 
Thought i might drop by:
[IMG]http://i.minus.com/ibyAZDpSr0zHfm.gif[/IMG]
And am out.
 
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