FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Daverytimes]

I already posted it and mods deleted it :/

They couldn't handle the epicness They probably thought it was real footage and not GT5 lol

Why? is it frowned upon to post GT5 gif's?

Edit: Oh and that Gif shows how much GT5's lightning is above Forza's, it just looks grity which in turn makes it look real.

 

[Sphinx]

Subject Title:

FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

However I want to clarify a few points in this regard:

• Opinion is not fact - don't present it as such
• Argue the point don't attack the person making it
• The term 'fanboy' (including any and all derivations) is banned
• Accusations of 'Troll' simply because you don't like what someone says are also out
• If you make a claim back it up with sources - fail to do so and you will be asked to provide them
  [*]Don't just post up pictures and video without any form of meaningful comment. This is a discussion thread not a picture/video gallery. Offending posts will be deleted on sight.

 

[Evian]

We have a new challenger

Sorry by the off topic , i'm so impressed by this new (beta)game , C.A.R.S for PC

 

[shirakawaa]

Thought i might drop by:
[IMG]http://i.minus.com/ibyAZDpSr0zHfm.gif[/IMG]
And am out.

It's in "weather change" tracks when the sky isn't clear that the GT5 lighting engine can really shine. I remarked this a few pages ago regarding a Nuerburgring video in about the same weather conditions (maybe less cloudy). However, in perfectly clear sky conditions the magic disappears, or in other words the graphics from near photorealistic downgrades to good but somehow plastic-like, with generally oversaturated colors, an excessively bluish tone (this especially in weather change tracks) and hard shadows of average quality (in fixed time tracks) or just plain ugly (in time change tracks).

Too bad that "weather change" tracks in GT5 are so few. Now that weather can be set up before the race nothing prevents from setting up cloudy or partially cloudy weather without rain (which can be an annoyance to some).

 

[Daverytimes]

It's in "weather change" tracks when the sky isn't clear that the GT5 lighting engine can really shine. I remarked this a few pages ago regarding a Nuerburgring video in about the same weather conditions (maybe less cloudy). However, in perfectly clear sky conditions the magic disappears, or in other words the graphics from near photorealistic downgrades to good but somehow plastic-like, with generally oversaturated colors, an excessively bluish tone (this especially in weather change tracks) and hard shadows of average quality (in fixed time tracks) or just plain ugly (in time change tracks).

Too bad that "weather change" tracks in GT5 are so few. Now that weather can be set up before the race nothing prevents from setting up cloudy or partially cloudy weather without rain (which can be an annoyance to some).

I agree with everything but this, Plastic-like? that's arguments you hear directed at Forza not GT. Car's in GT look nothing like plastic and it has nothing to do with the lightning, it has to do with how accurate PD captures materials that are used in individual cars. If we are talking of premium cars none of them look plastic unless they are plastic in real life. It's a known that PD cannot capture sunlight in the same effect they can capture overcast skies, if they can smoothing the shadows they will come very close to nailing it.

 

[shirakawaa]

I must clarify that I was referring to the tracks, and more specifically to the oversaturated, fake-looking colors they have in certain situations; not cars, which most of the time (speaking of Premium models) look great.

 

[advan031]

I enjoy both games but I have to say the only thing FM4 has on GT5 are sounds and livery. I love playing both!!!

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

We have a new challenger

Sorry by the off topic , i'm so impressed by this new (beta)game , C.A.R.S for PC

Sorry, there isn't a new challenger - at least not yet and I don't think C.A.R.S will be a complete experience (career mode, number of cars, leaderboards, etc. for quite soom time. Those pics are great but they are just that, pics. A picture doesn't indicate what the real game will be like.

And you are off topic. Sorry to others for responding.

 

[sugarload]

It is still running the same simulation software that you said it was better than. This would not make GT5 the ultimate sim due to the simulator setup being good. A few people here have very good rigs with decent sound systems. This is probably more expensive but there are more expensive rigs out there that are probably better.

I didn't really indicate that. I pointed to a link that had something you sit and drive in . As OPPOSED TO CONSOLES VS PC's. Those alone can't give you the ultimate experience...

....To gain "That experience"
one must go beyond the Pc vs console argument....as consoles are just as equipped as pcs....

sugarload View Post
I dont get people who keep saying stuff about PC's being the ultimate for sims whereas consoles are not? Last I looked, consoles are really computers as well. They have a CPU and are dedicated to the task given.


If you want a "REAL DRIVING SIM"

the do this...

http://www.virtualgt.com/

That will be better than all the sims that we are all arguing about.


As Far as my own experience, GT5 does very well for what it is, and the behaviour of certain vehicles especially the Nissans seem very accurate to real life.


Edit: maybe some mean to say the 'software' --like iRacing--on computers are better.

I personally see no reason why a console in our day and age, can't handle or be up to the task.


---

--- iRacing would be the software of choice obviously, however, if one were to talk of the full experience then one must have something that makes the experience as close to real world as possible.

 

[mps3]

We have a new challenger

Sorry by the off topic , i'm so impressed by this new (beta)game , C.A.R.S for PC

any links to this game?

 

[PzR Slim]

Thought i might drop by:
[IMG]http://i.minus.com/ibyAZDpSr0zHfm.gif[/IMG]
And am out.

So if I post a picture of the changing tyre pressure options in FM4 does that make it a better sim than GT5? No one denies at its best that GT5 looks better than any other game on console. However, this thread is debating one complete game against another complete game. And for my money as a complete game FM4, and even FM3 for that matter, wins hands down.

Sorry, there isn't a new challenger - at least not yet and I don't think C.A.R.S will be a complete experience (career mode, number of cars, leaderboards, etc. for quite soom time. Those pics are great but they are just that, pics. A picture doesn't indicate what the real game will be like.

And you are off topic. Sorry to others for responding.

That is very indicative of the game and I know because I've invested in it and I have the most recent build installed on my pc. It does look that good and it drives just as well. Should be released for Xbox and PS3 as well. It's going to be the game Shift should have been if EA hadn't interfered.

In fact here are a couple of vids to show how good it looks. Best to change to 1080p and run in full screen.

any links to this game?

All info can be found here with info on how to invest and play regular builds during development. http://www.wmdportal.com/

 

[sugarload]

I actually thought that gif was real world as opposed to virtual world! I wasn't looking close enough. That is pretty much a "Wow"

 

[GTForzafan]

In this thread it's gonna be always difficult to reaching any conclusions.....
Mainly because many Gt fans, refuse to accept that gran turismo isn't all "That"
That is a product built with an initial vision, that required a longer development time, and the result it's a GAME that shines sometimes, but other times shows that compromises have been made to conclude the game!

The sound is one of the biggest issues! Gt5 is premium quality, but also standard quality, and sound it's not premium.... most of the times!
Gt5 looks like a premium game, with the day / night cycles, the weather, the premium car models, cockpits and the premium tracks....
But there is also, a lot of standard content, that was included only to make number....
The car selection is also Gt like, too many japanese cars.....

Forza 4, gives a better whole package! In the cars that they offer, from small cars, to SUVS, to vans, and sports cars....
The sounds are awesome, even if the graphics don't quite reach the premium level of gt5! The cars models, have some strange "errors"...
But in this thread, we see a lot of small gifs, photomode comparisions, but not many recognize that GT5 feels incomplete.... imho
For me, the initial vision planned for the Gran turismo ... Was compromised by a little factor, called development time....

To mps3 : I think this is what you are looking for....
http://www.racesimcentral.com/news/...ios-c-a-r-s-gameplay-video-and-track-license/

And it has GAMEPLAY, now can it be also a contender ?

To finish my point of view, to post videos, small gifs and photomode comparisions it's not really a great way to show anything....
I can also find, Forza 4 videos for example in top gear test track, that side by side with gt5, are much better...

Also, many times the discussions between the two games, also have hidden preferences between Microsoft and Sony....

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I didn't really indicate that. I pointed to a link that had something you sit and drive in . As OPPOSED TO CONSOLES VS PC's. Those alone can't give you the ultimate experience...

....To gain "That experience"
one must go beyond the Pc vs console argument....as consoles are just as equipped as pcs....






--- iRacing would be the software of choice obviously, however, if one were to talk of the full experience then one must have something that makes the experience as close to real world as possible.

You mention this:

if you want a "REAL DRIVING SIM"

It is hardware after all, it does not simulate the driving of the car itself. It has to use either PC or console with simulation software. When people mention PC being the ultimate for sims, that is about software choice that is available, not hardware. Consoles are not as equipped as well as PC's, there is very low amount of ram, GPU is less powerful than some onboard graphics on PC processors and CPU architecture is harder to work with. Otherwise we would have seen quite easily the PC sims get transferred to the consoles. PC sims do not require much power to run though so they should be able to run on a PS3, something like rFactor but it would take a lot of investment to do so. Console games like GT5 offload some graphics work onto the CPU too so gives less head room for advanced driving physics and AI. I think the gap from console sims to PC sims is due to the dedication PC sim makers have on really one sole part. I think though that console sims will overtake PC sims within this decade due to more resources.

This makes no sense to me:

That will be better than all the sims that we are all arguing about.

How can a rig be better than the software that we are talking about? Unless your defintion of a sim is a platform and rig combination as well as software?

 

[azrael1965]

Thought i might drop by:
And am out.

This gif is absolutly amazing. I thought it was a real life and it was a youtube video. Both wrong.

 

[GTForzafan]

This looks absolutly amazing.

Too bad ... gt5 isn't always like that....
Showing only the brightest examples, doesn't tell the whole story..... there is also the darker side of gt5....
If it was another game offering this .... i think the reactions would be very different....

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I must clarify that I was referring to the tracks, and more specifically to the oversaturated, fake-looking colors they have in certain situations; not cars, which most of the time (speaking of Premium models) look great.

Monza is a good example. Looks very real with an overcast though like Spa, PD should make that the default look but they are going for the GT5 > Real when conditions are absolutely / beyond perfect.

Sorry, there isn't a new challenger - at least not yet and I don't think C.A.R.S will be a complete experience (career mode, number of cars, leaderboards, etc. for quite soom time. Those pics are great but they are just that, pics. A picture doesn't indicate what the real game will be like.

And you are off topic. Sorry to others for responding.

I am looking forward to rFactor 2 the most and it should be coming out this year. GT5 and rFactor 2 as well as F1 2011 should keep me occupied in the racing games department for quite some time.

 

[PzR Slim]

Monza is a good example. Looks very real with an overcast though like Spa, PD should make that the default look but they are going for the GT5 > Real when conditions are absolutely / beyond perfect.



I am looking forward to rFactor 2 the most and it should be coming out this year. GT5 and rFactor 2 as well as F1 2011 should keep me occupied in the racing games department for quite some time.

Not sure if you have seen the official rfactor2 trailer released on inside sim racing but it looks very dissapointing in the graphics department.

 

[GTForzafan]

PZR Slim, how are the cockpits in r-factor2 ? If most accept the blackish cockpits in the standard cars with roof, maybe the graphics don't matter ?
If that's the case, maybe they like the game because it's a great sim ?
However, if true they wouldn't post and brag about the graphics....
It's a mystery...
The cockpits view in NFS shift for me, are until now unbeaten.... unfortunately that's about it, with that game....

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Not sure if you have seen the official rfactor2 trailer released on inside sim racing but it looks very dissapointing in the graphics department.

I saw it already on the official ISI channel. Im not too fussed about graphics on this game and they mentioned it missing some of the final effects such as HDR so should be better on final release. I prefer the way the track surface looks compared to Forza but that goes for a lot of games too (Keeping it sort of on topic).

 

[GTForzafan]

Forza tracks surfaces are way to shiny, maybe they've used wax....

 

[sugarload]

saidur_ali,



I will agree with you though, consoles will move ahead, but then again, I would also add that it depends on the timing of what is released and so forth. But we are in a day and age, that the power is not so much the issue but the software written. A really tight code can use either platform very effectively.

How can a rig be better than the software that we are talking about? Unless your defintion of a sim is a platform and rig combination as well as software?

Well imagine if there were only controllers. No wheels or pedals etc. Now, if the first wheel came out and was of the quality of something like the G27--I would say that is the "Real driving simulator" ---

It has to be the proper balance between the two-both hardware and software.

Let me put it this way. How can I determine if the physics of Forza 4 is better than GT5 if all I am using are controllers? Would not my opinion be more precise if I have the proper hardware to analyze such?

That is the way I look at it. Physics seems to be very personal and often people of experience disagree, and I wonder how much is down to not having very advanced "real simulation" hardware?

 

[mps3]

is it me or does FM3 look better then FM4?

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

...
That is very indicative of the game and I know because I've invested in it and I have the most recent build installed on my pc. It does look that good and it drives just as well. Should be released for Xbox and PS3 as well. It's going to be the game Shift should have been if EA hadn't interfered.
...

Those vids don't show the graphical detail like the pics - the vids are only showing a car front end. Where is a video of the cars in traffic at that detail?
As for the release of this for Xbox and PS3, I believe that won't be until the next generation consoles. On the current generation, that level of detail is just not possible and only possible on the PC after investing a sizeable chunk of change in hardware.
I have been, and will continue, to watch the development of C.A.R.S. It may take a year before it becomes a complete racing game and I will jump in at that point. I am "somewhat" skeptical seeing the problems with Shift 2. Those S2U problems cannot all be blamed on EA - Slightly Mad Studios were the developers.

 

[Daverytimes]

is it me or does FM3 look better then FM4?

The skybox is amazing in FM3, it's almost non-existent in FM4. The lightning in FM4 is leaps and bounds better than FM3 but it looks unnatural since everything looks pristine. Both lack the gritty look GT5 offers (With an overcast) so both still look a tad unrealistic.

 

[GTForzafan]

Don't forget that forza 4 has different times of the day, for some tracks....

"Some of the tracks are available to race on at different times of day: Hockenheimring, Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and Infineon Raceway (all of which make their series debut) can be raced at sunrise or during the day; Camino Viejo and Suzuka both have mid-day and sunset versions; and the Top Gear Test Track comes in normal and overcast flavors"
But i didn't expect anything else from you, for someone complaining about the Gametrailers comparision, saying that they are bias because of the autovista models used....
Do you even have the game ? The images used, are the car selection in the showroom. Autovista it's a stand-alone feature......
Spreading lies, isn't nice....

You may continue with the gifs, if it makes you happy!

 

[Vaxxtx]

Do you even have the game ?

Dude, a large chunk of the people comparing these 2 games, dont have FM4. Thats what makes this thread lose some of its cred.

You can always tell the ones that have played both to the others have "seen on youtube" or "heard it from ____".

 

[GTForzafan]

Vaxxtx,what are they to prove ? I understand the posting of pics in the neogaf vs thread... but spreading ********, it's childish and leads to nothing....
So that's the reason of posting gifs, of selected and ideal conditions, for gt5 to appear at it's best.... giving the idea that the game always is at that kind of quality....

Maybe, they are the same persons, that were against the dlc policy of the turn10 studios, and now PD also has a policy of DLCS....(which i recall was against the Kaz ideas).... they accept it naturally....

To me, it's obvious that this GT vs Forza thing, it's more Microsoft vs Sony, than anything else....

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Maybe I should have worded my thoughts differently, I'll admit that. What I'm trying to say is, I don't feel like I'm playing an incomplete game because it doesn't offer weather or day and night cycles. That's why I said consistency and a coherent experience are more important to me than bullet points. Leave a feature out and do everything else well enough, and I won't miss it.

If that feature can be added afterwards in full glory, maybe on the next release, I'm all for it and it'll make the game just that much better.


He also mentioned that they weren't willing to make the sacrifices needed in order to get it into FM4.

In simple terms:
FM4 without sacrifices and day/night/weather > FM4 as it is > FM4 with sacrifices and day/night/weather.

That's my take on it. I know I wasn't going to get the first option, and I prefer the current one to the third. So, yeah, I don't care that it's not in as I never deemed the first one possible. If someone was to come up with option one now, I'd of course love it.


So, I suppose my point wasn't that hard to get, afterall

From what I've seen from you Lumis you didn't have to reword anything you made good sense the first time. I see exactly where your coming from, FM4 told everyone what they were going to have from the get go T10 hyped the new parts of the game. Just like PD did with GT5, problem is PD neglected to tell us from the get go how damage exactly would be and only certain cars get as bad as those seen in the adds on TV a year ago. Same with weather it is only slightly used in the game. So GT5 was over hyped by many people as to where FM4 wasn't so much, the only hype was could it deliver and beat GT5. Which I think more and more people are willing to say, this time Forza won, but GT6 vs FM5 is a story down the road to where we can do this again.

This time I think people should just lay this battle to rest really.

 

[Daverytimes]

Don't forget that forza 4 has different times of the day, for some tracks....

"Some of the tracks are available to race on at different times of day: Hockenheimring, Indianapolis Motor Speedway, and Infineon Raceway (all of which make their series debut) can be raced at sunrise or during the day; Camino Viejo and Suzuka both have mid-day and sunset versions; and the Top Gear Test Track comes in normal and overcast flavors"
But i didn't expect anything else from you, for someone complaining about the Gametrailers comparision, saying that they are bias because of the autovista models used....
Do you even have the game ? The images used, are the car selection in the showroom. Autovista it's a stand-alone feature......
Spreading lies, isn't nice....

You may continue with the gifs, if it makes you happy!

Please tell me you are not talking to me.