FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[zr1chris]

God I cant wait to try the new physics in Forza 4. Just did some online racing in Forza 3 after playing GT5 for the past 10 months and I cant get a hold of the physics in Forza especially RWD cars. The RWD cars all seem like they burn rubber a bit too much (could be me needing to get used to it again) also it seems like almost every car understeers; rwd, fwd, awd. It just doesnt matter. In fact it seems like AWD understeers the least which is completely backwards. It could just be me. I might just need to play a bit more. I just couldnt figure out what was wrong. I usually do halfway decent online racing in GT5 but in Forza I was terrible.

One more thing, there is allot of dirty drivers in the Forza community right now. I was in a race yesterday with a few guys and every time I tried passing; the car I tried to pass would turn hard right or left (depending which side I was passing on) and take me out of the race completely. It would always be on a straight away too and if I managed to pass they would just use my car as a brake at the end of the straight.

 

[t.o.]

God I cant wait to try the new physics in Forza 4. Just did some online racing in Forza 3 after playing GT5 for the past 10 months and I cant get a hold of the physics in Forza especially RWD cars. The RWD cars all seem like they burn rubber a bit too much (could be me needing to get used to it again) also it seems like almost every car understeers; rwd, fwd, awd. It just doesnt matter. In fact it seems like AWD understeers the least which is completely backwards. It could just be me. I might just need to play a bit more. I just couldnt figure out what was wrong. I usually do halfway decent online racing in GT5 but in Forza I was terrible.

One more thing, there is allot of dirty drivers in the Forza community right now. I was in a race yesterday with a few guys and every time I tried passing; the car I tried to pass would turn hard right or left (depending which side I was passing on) and take me out of the race completely. It would always be on a straight away too and if I managed to pass they would just use my car as a brake at the end of the straight.

As that famous song goes by the great Dionne Warwick ....
"That's what friends are for....
the friendslist
the forums
you can find clean races forever mooooore... cause that's what friends are for"

Ok she didn't sing that other part but you get it

 

[Hotspitta]

God I cant wait to try the new physics in Forza 4. Just did some online racing in Forza 3 after playing GT5 for the past 10 months and I cant get a hold of the physics in Forza especially RWD cars. The RWD cars all seem like they burn rubber a bit too much (could be me needing to get used to it again) also it seems like almost every car understeers; rwd, fwd, awd. It just doesnt matter. In fact it seems like AWD understeers the least which is completely backwards. It could just be me. I might just need to play a bit more. I just couldnt figure out what was wrong. I usually do halfway decent online racing in GT5 but in Forza I was terrible.

One more thing, there is allot of dirty drivers in the Forza community right now. I was in a race yesterday with a few guys and every time I tried passing; the car I tried to pass would turn hard right or left (depending which side I was passing on) and take me out of the race completely. It would always be on a straight away too and if I managed to pass they would just use my car as a brake at the end of the straight.

It's all in the braking and searching for grip on the parts of the road with the most rubber marks. The griplevels are dependant of the perfect line.

Also try messing around with the braking pressure and balance. Proper braking technique is essential in Forza.
(Off gas, stabilize car, brake, downshift, enter corner and ease on the gas.)

 

[Luminis]

I think it's just normal to be a bit off with a game after playing a different one for a relatively long time... I guess it's going to be the same for FM4 for me, once I get my hands on it.
Well,a t least I'm determined to get myself a nice wheel again, no matter what. I'll just need to find a solution to somehow fit it into my appartment

 

[zr1chris]

As that famous song goes by the great Dionne Warwick ....
"That's what friends are for....
the friendslist
the forums
you can find clean races forever mooooore... cause that's what friends are for"

Ok she didn't sing that other part but you get it

LMAO!!

It's all in the braking and searching for grip on the parts of the road with the most rubber marks. The griplevels are dependant of the perfect line.

Also try messing around with the braking pressure and balance. Proper braking technique is essential in Forza.
(Off gas, stabilize car, brake, downshift, enter corner and ease on the gas.)

Yeah, braking was definitely a problem until I put a sponge under the brake pedal (ms wheel). Learning the tracks and judging the speed and when to start braking is where I'm lacking BIG TIME. It seems like your moving much faster than in GT5.

 

[t.o.]

Yeah, braking was definitely a problem until I put a sponge under the brake pedal (ms wheel). Learning the tracks and judging the speed and when to start braking is where I'm lacking BIG TIME. It seems like your moving much faster than in GT5.

I posted this on my group's forums. I guess this can help you too. This is when I had my MS wheel.

I thought I posted this but I don't think I did. As many of you know the default M$ Wheel brakes lock up on you if you press all the way. You get no feedback from the pedal itself. Not fun. But with this simple fix I was able to get the breaks damn near perfect for my use. Here's the steps provided with some pics:


Take a mouse pad and cut a strip the width of the space underneath the pedal. I would say about an inch would do the trick. I used a mouse pad with some signficant padding underneath instead of the ones that feel like paper.

I then folded it 3 ways (like a brochure) and tied it up with a rubber band.

Then just shove it underneath the brake pedal

That's it. Also you'll want to adjust your brake settings in game to get it right for your application. It helps me tremendously. Hope it helps you all.

 

[VXR]

It definitely will be a case of moving from one game to another. Having recently gone from Dirt3 to FM3 and missing braking zones for a few minutes, I'm loathe to load it up whilst I'm currently going between GT4 and Tokyo Xtreme Racer.

 

[Hotspitta]

If you really pay attention you can tell he caught himself. He really wanted to take a direct jab at GT5 and say something like "a hundred skylines" but he caught himself and went with the more "professional" answer. Right when he said 'you don't want to have ... fifty of the same car".

Lolz

 

[Luminis]

Well, I guess it's pretty obvious that someone's commenting about GT5 if he's talking about a car being in a game fifty times, isn't it?
Might as well call it as he sees it

 

[InSight]

Well, I guess it's pretty obvious that someone's commenting about GT5 if he's talking about a car being in a game fifty times, isn't it?
Might as well call it as he sees it

I always remember the "alo alo" joke: "man of a thousand faces, everyone the same"

 

[Sele1981]

You know what? This game makes me schizophren... There is the bad and there is the good...

3-4 days ago I wrote the bad things, yesterday I played the "german elite cars" race, took an Porsche GT2 and had great fun. I never had any chance to get on the first place (Ok the AI had 40 PP more), I was fighting for place 2 and 3 with the AI. And that is what I want from an racing game. Not to win every damn race easily...

Playing on hard with all driving aids off and a bit slower car than the AI is a real great challenge for me.

You cant say GT is better, you cant say FM is better... Each game has it´s own bads and goods...

 

[Scaff]

A number of members are by-passing the swear filter and also double (and in once case triple) posting, which is considered a form of spam.

I have, to date, edited or merged the offending posts and asked for it not to be repeated in the Reason edited comment field.

It would seem that this 'light' touch has had no effect, so please be aware that any future incidences will be handled via official means. That does mean formal warnings and/or infractions.


Scaff

 

[Jamezinho]

I'm watching the qualifying for the F1 British Grand Prix right now and I'm wondering if Turn 10 will have the new, remodelled Silverstone Circuit in Forza 4?

The new layout has the pit lane in a different location amongst other changes.

Has there been any word on this?

 

[cuco33]

If you are referring to me scaff.. I generally don't multiquote on any forum im on. Its not spamming by any means. Nor is it double/triple posting.

 

[t.o.]

If you are referring to me scaff.. I generally don't multiquote on any forum im on. Its not spamming by any means. Nor is it double/triple posting.

Wait, I'm totally confused here. So on this site you're not supposed to have more than one quote in your reply? You're supposed to have a separate post for each reply you give even though that may mean the next few posts will be yours? Strange because most sites, infact this is the only site I know that wants you to do it that way. All other sites don't want to see the next 3 posts coming from the same guy when he could have put it all in one post.

 

[I'm Motarded]

LoL you guys are indeed confused. Scaff says "Do not double or triple post, but do use the quote function to quote as many times necessary in a single post instead, oh and do not curse"

I feel your pain Scaff. Modding can be a pain lol

 

[Hotspitta]

If you are referring to me scaff.. I generally don't multiquote on any forum im on. Its not spamming by any means. Nor is it double/triple posting.

Think he was referring too me.

 

[Scaff]

If you are referring to me scaff.. I generally don't multiquote on any forum im on. Its not spamming by any means. Nor is it double/triple posting.

You were one of the members I was refering too and while I understand that you may not multi-quote on other forums, you will find that we do class repeated posts by the same member as double/triple posting.

You may have a differing view on the definition of double/triple posting, but here at GT Planet we have a very clear view on it.
The site owner himself on this subject....

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=209114#double_posting

....if its an isolated case then we ignore it, but if its a consistent pattern of posting then we have to deal with it. Please keep in mind that all I am asking is that you follow the same rules that all members (myself and the other staff included) are requited to.

Wait, I'm totally confused here. So on this site you're not supposed to have more than one quote in your reply? You're supposed to have a separate post for each reply you give even though that may mean the next few posts will be yours? Strange because most sites, infact this is the only site I know that wants you to do it that way. All other sites don't want to see the next 3 posts coming from the same guy when he could have put it all in one post.

No.

The reason why we have an edit button and a multi-quote tool (the little speech bubbles icon) is to allow mutli-quotes in a single post. Repeated posts by a single member is exactly what we don't want.

The posts I am referring to I had to merge myself, as they were originally multiple posts.



Regards

Scaff

 

[SuperShouden]

Wow! Nurburgin GP is WAY longer than it should be. And...I don't know...the reason for making it wider and longer..."We made it longer and wider to make it more online friendly." But...if you're a true racing sim, should your philosophy be "if it's condusive to real world racing, it'll be fine for online racing"? And...by changing it for the sole purpose of making more user friendly make you game an arcade racer and not a sim? 'Cause, I mean, a sim means simulation as in, this is a representation of the real world. Which implies that you can practice racing on it in preparation for an actual race. But if the track is LONGER and wider than it is in real life, you can't do that, so it's not longer a sim. Whereas with GT...three GT Academies later, and all three winners are getting podiums and first place finishes...and you hear all the time of race car drivers who've used GT to practice before a race. Never heard that claim with Forza.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Wow! Nurburgin GP is WAY longer than it should be. And...I don't know...the reason for making it wider and longer..."We made it longer and wider to make it more online friendly." But...if you're a true racing sim, should your philosophy be "if it's condusive to real world racing, it'll be fine for online racing"? And...by changing it for the sole purpose of making more user friendly make you game an arcade racer and not a sim? 'Cause, I mean, a sim means simulation as in, this is a representation of the real world. Which implies that you can practice racing on it in preparation for an actual race. But if the track is LONGER and wider than it is in real life, you can't do that, so it's not longer a sim. Whereas with GT...three GT Academies later, and all three winners are getting podiums and first place finishes...and you hear all the time of race car drivers who've used GT to practice before a race. Never heard that claim with Forza.

You will find that GT and Forza sway from "sim" in many areas, and are arcadey in many areas as well as sim. Just because I can't damage a gear in GT and rev, but I can do so in Forza, doesn't make GT NOT a sim. They may not have included those damage physics to make it more accessible.

If you haven't seen people practice with Forza before a race, you haven't watched enough races or videos. They do indeed use Forza as well.

 

[SuperShouden]

*shrug* I don't know. Forza's never really felt like a "sim" to me. Forza and GT5 have completely different feels to them. You could argue which side is better until you're blue in the face and you can make fair points for both, but...then you look at the numbers and you play them and there's just...a different feeling to Forza. Forza feels like something you can just pick up an play...Hell the achievements really aren't all that hard to get, either. Forza feels like it's catering towards the more casual gamer, where as Gran Turismo feels like it's more catering towards the hardcore gamer.

And I think the numbers proves this point:

Development:
GT5 - 5 years
Forza 3 - 2 years

Cars:
GT5 - 1000+
Forza 3 - 400+

Completion time:
GT5 - 500 Hours
Forza 3 - 100-250 Hours

And I'm sure Forza's budget was smaller, too.

But, really, when you step back and look at the two, you've got two really great games.

 

[zr1chris]

Completion time:
GT5 - 500 Hours
Forza 3 - 100-250 Hours

Are you sure that's accurate? I'm pretty sure Forza 3 has about 1000 races (220 different series) to complete. Also GT5 seems much shorter if you don't count seasonal's and if you are counting them then you really cant put a number on it for completion time.

 

[Imari]

GT5's completion time is also artificially inflated by the last half dozen races being really, really, really, really, really long. I mean, the last six endurance races are at least 70 hours. These races are not particularly enjoyable or significant gameplay (unless you're a masochist). They have no redeeming qualities other than being long.

It's the same kind of thinking that leads to 100 Skylines being something to brag about. Quantity is considered to be supreme over quality.

 

[McLaren]

And I think the numbers proves this point:

Development:
GT5 - 5 years
Forza 3 - 2 years

Cars:
GT5 - 1000+
Forza 3 - 400+

A LOT of which already came from the previous 4 years of development for GT4. And some beyond that for GT3.

 

[Sele1981]

Wow! Nurburgin GP is WAY longer than it should be. And...I don't know...the reason for making it wider and longer..."We made it longer and wider to make it more online friendly." But...if you're a true racing sim, should your philosophy be "if it's condusive to real world racing, it'll be fine for online racing"? And...by changing it for the sole purpose of making more user friendly make you game an arcade racer and not a sim? 'Cause, I mean, a sim means simulation as in, this is a representation of the real world. Which implies that you can practice racing on it in preparation for an actual race. But if the track is LONGER and wider than it is in real life, you can't do that, so it's not longer a sim. Whereas with GT...three GT Academies later, and all three winners are getting podiums and first place finishes...and you hear all the time of race car drivers who've used GT to practice before a race. Never heard that claim with Forza.

Good post 👍

But what? Again in FM4?

That kills 50% of the game if the tracks are not 100% identical to the real ones... Why they call it sim then? For what did they work with pirelli and make good physics if they build unreal tracks?

As I said, the Nordschleife in FM3 is more an fictional track than the NS... That´s sad...

You will find that GT and Forza sway from "sim" in many areas, and are arcadey in many areas as well as sim. Just because I can't damage a gear in GT and rev, but I can do so in Forza, doesn't make GT NOT a sim. They may not have included those damage physics to make it more accessible.

If you haven't seen people practice with Forza before a race, you haven't watched enough races or videos. They do indeed use Forza as well.

Gear damage and unreal tracks are two different things my friend...

 

[zanxion]

You will find that GT and Forza sway from "sim" in many areas, and are arcadey in many areas as well as sim. Just because I can't damage a gear in GT and rev, but I can do so in Forza, doesn't make GT NOT a sim. They may not have included those damage physics to make it more accessible.

If you haven't seen people practice with Forza before a race, you haven't watched enough races or videos. They do indeed use Forza as well.

Indeed, both are what consoles can offer in terms of racing. Simulators that are far more accurate, but yet not the top of it call for PCs with specs out of most peoples pockets.

Never the less they are pretty enjoyable. Imagine somebody with no idea on cars having his first go on a simulator. Frustration would be all he/she would get.

Are you sure that's accurate? I'm pretty sure Forza 3 has about 1000 races (220 different series) to complete. Also GT5 seems much shorter if you don't count seasonal's and if you are counting them then you really cant put a number on it for completion time.

I am praying FM4 not having those endurances of GT5. I have given up on these because every time I try it I get sleepy halfway.

 

[Luminis]

and you hear all the time of race car drivers who've used GT to practice before a race. Never heard that claim with Forza.

It's called 'advertisement'. But, people don't lie when it comes to commercials. Never did, never will
If real race drivers would use a game to practice, games like iRacing would be far, far more suitable, no?

But what? Again in FM4?

I have neither seen nor heard anything about that matter than just rumours. You, though, seem to be fairly sure about it. Care to tell me why?

Gear damage and unreal tracks are two different things my friend...

And why is that? If a few tracks in the game aren't realistic, you can at least get a sim-feeling on those that are accurate. Not having gear damage means that you can't achieve a sim-feeling anywhere.

Really, sometimes I get the feeling that some people arbitrary decide which points make a sim and which don't. Strangely, it usually comes down to: "Aero damage and damage to my gearbox, that's unnecessary! But it has to have the bestest tracks, yeah!" Especially when we're talking about games that both feature fantasy tracks, either way.

I am praying FM4 not having those endurances of GT5. I have given up on these because every time I try it I get sleepy halfway.

They won't. For one thing, doing races like these isn't realistic. The ACO doesn't allow a single driver to complete a 24 hour race on his (or her) own. Plus, I doubt that there are many race drivers that could do this in real life.
And, frankly, Forza never bothered to force you to do such atrocities.

 

[SuperShouden]

I think gear damage is more of a minor thing compared to realistic tracks. Plus...you do know that damage models and track models are handled by two completely different sets of people, right? Sure GT5 doesn't have gear models, but, a lot of what's NOT included in GT5 wasn't included because they didn't want to take any longer than it already did. That's why the shadows are jaggy in GT5. (BTW, the shadows in Forza aren't perfect, either. I noticed uneven shadows and jiggly shadows today. And when I say jiggly...I thought a part the body work was loose and shaking, but it was just the shadow. I went, "Why does the shadow bounce around like that?")

Also...I will point out that in GT5 you're not pressed up against the glass in the cockpit view. I can't stand Forza's cockpit. At least FM4's will be correct.

 

[t.o.]

Wow! Nurburgin GP is WAY longer than it should be.

"Nrubrugin" GP is the same in both games.

*shrug* I don't know. Forza's never really felt like a "sim" to me. Forza and GT5 have completely different feels to them. You could argue which side is better until you're blue in the face and you can make fair points for both, but...then you look at the numbers and you play them and there's just...a different feeling to Forza. Forza feels like something you can just pick up an play...Hell the achievements really aren't all that hard to get, either. Forza feels like it's catering towards the more casual gamer, where as Gran Turismo feels like it's more catering towards the hardcore gamer.

I'll explain why this statement is ridiculous. Both games allow for pick up and play gameplay. You put full assists on in both games and anyone can have a good time. You take all assists off in both games and only people who really know how to drive in these sims can be effective. I've put multiple friends on FM3 , and not even with all assists off and by a quarter way through whatever track, if they can even get that far, they're begging to get off or "make it easy".

It's called 'advertisement'. But, people don't lie when it comes to commercials. Never did, never will
If real race drivers would use a game to practice, games like iRacing would be far, far more suitable, no?

Every real life race I've seen where they care to mention a video game that has helped them in races it's always been iRacing. NASCAR, ALMS, you name it, if they happen to mention a video game it's always the same , iRacing.

I think gear damage is more of a minor thing compared to realistic tracks. Plus...you do know that damage models and track models are handled by two completely different sets of people, right?

The more I read your posts the more it's becoming clear to me, or rather it's boiling down to two things. You seem to have an unconditional love for GT5 and/or you're not into racing per se' as you're more into just driving cars around and really even that's iffy.

There is no way on God's green Earth a person who's into racing can say the gear damage is more of a minor thing. I could careless how accurate your track is if you grind out your gears to death and don't even make it to the 3rd turn. The track is almost irrelevant as is keeping your machine intact to complete the race and hopefully keep it sound enough to finish first.

Racing is the thing for me. If I want to test drive cars I'd just, well test drive cars. You can go to Vegas and test drive a bunch of exotic cars in real life if you want to.

 

[Luminis]

I think gear damage is more of a minor thing compared to realistic tracks.

Again, why? It's not like every track in Forza is off. But every gear box in GT5 is. And not being punished for mis-shifiting is, I think, affecting the game quite a bit. Couple that with the lack of aero damage, the lack of tyre pressure to name a few, and I'll have to ask: If Forza is no sim for lacking track accuracy, what does that make GT5 for lacking all of that, which directly impacts how a car is driven on whatever road there is and might ever be?

Plus...you do know that damage models and track models are handled by two completely different sets of people, right?

Oh, I know that. What I don't know, though, is what that has to do with anything.

Sure GT5 doesn't have gear models, but, a lot of what's NOT included in GT5 wasn't included because they didn't want to take any longer than it already did.

And that makes it a non-issue, or what? Given the time and budget spend on GT5, is that really an excuse? If so, wouldn't Forza have every right to use that excuse as well, as it's only been spending two years in development?

That's why the shadows are jaggy in GT5. (BTW, the shadows in Forza aren't perfect, either. I noticed uneven shadows and jiggly shadows today. And when I say jiggly...I thought a part the body work was loose and shaking, but it was just the shadow. I went, "Why does the shadow bounce around like that?")

So, you found that out after playing the game for a few weeks. See, I for one don't claim Forza to be perfect in the visuals department, including the shadows. But if it takes you a few weeks to notice it, isn't that a bit different from loading the game up for the first time and immediately going "what the hell?!"

Also...I will point out that in GT5 you're not pressed up against the glass in the cockpit view. I can't stand Forza's cockpit. At least FM4's will be correct.

Uh... Why don't you change the FoV, then? It's a workaround, yeah, but it's not like it's hard to do?

And I could say something about cockpits being only available in 20% of the cars in GT5 anyways, which has little to do with the original points I raised, but... Yeah. Why not.

Hell, who cares if only a fraction of the cars even has one, as long as you can find something about it that supposedly makes it better than the one found in FM3, right? I for one would rather use a workaround to fix that issue than to forgoe cockpit view on 80% of the cars in the first place, but that might be just me.

Anyways, what I'm trying to say is: I think neither GT nor FM are true sims, both are simcade, because both are lacking things that would make a sim just that, a sim.
What's bothering me is when people arbitrarily decide which boxes a sim has to tick and which are okay to be left blank for a game to be a sim.
Or that one game is more of a sim because of whatever arbitrary reason they come up with.

Every real life race I've seen where they care to mention a video game that has helped them in races it's always been iRacing. NASCAR, ALMS, you name it, if they happen to mention a video game it's always the same , iRacing.

My experience as well, aside from the few guys that have somehow been related to Sony and are probably paid to say otherwise.