FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[VXR]

I'm going to basically live on the Alps track for photomode in the first few weeks. Absolutely breathtaking, if not quite as mesmerising as Eiger Nordwand.

 

[Bogie 19th]

But....Forza uses premium and standard models, too.

"If you make a claim back it up with sources - fail to do so and you will be asked to provide them"

 

[I'm Motarded]

Test

Video removed Re-posted HERE

O.k I couldn't time stamp it. Best viewing starts at 33 seconds

All direct feed footage

 

[dzidza]

pwnd.


Also: See those in-game shadows that don't look like a 5 year old cut them out of construction paper? But you're right dzidza, R.I.P. FM4's in-game graphics...

That is terrible pwnd, t10 not saying about weather and night racing is actually them saying it will be in game. Eurogamers prediction of that is as good as mine. We can discuss what we know, not what we think will be. Remember when t10 was asked for f3, will it have the same online as f2 (public lobbies), and how did that turned out in f3. They were saying that it will be the same, and they ditched public lobbies. So even then we can not trust t10 about what they say, and what goes into final game, but we can trust EUROGAMER about what t10 didn't say. Now if that means pwnd that i am pwnd, but then both of you can make tons of money on wallstreet when you trust those speculation ;-).

 

[Hotspitta]

I bet if we made a poll asking if you had to choose one which one would you want in a racing game the results would be OVERWHELMINGLY in favor of damage affecting aero.

Exactly!👍

I just cant get enough of this vid. I can see myself talking like Jezza during the replays..lol

 

[amar212]

You know what, let's give them that. Ok , sure , some dirt effects your aero. Ok you got that. In GT5 dirt effects your aero, the fact that after a big crash your rear spoiler is now a souvenir for some guy in the stands, your front spoiler is laid out on the track and your side skirts looks like King Kong crushed it and none of this affects your aero is laughable. I bet if we made a poll asking if you had to choose one which one would you want in a racing game the results would be OVERWHELMINGLY in favor of damage affecting aero.

You see, I have a feeling like you're deliberately missing my point.

Of course it is more convenient and *better* to ALSO have real-time in-race damage - and every other damage to be honest, in the realms as TOCA Race Driver 3 did best ever - but that was not my point.

I have praised GT series for going the route no other developer have ever went, and they expanded that route through their voyage immensely. Overall aspects and unique importance of the "ownership/maintenance" philosophy goes way beyond stupid and immature discussions with "VS" in title. I am talking about the sheer importance for the overall genre, where all developers in past 15 years pretty much went the *safe* route and catered some aspects of driving/racing genre up to mainstream/casual point, shiny features that will give press-coverage and scores and without any real development towards actual *width* that driving genre can offer.

I praise GT series especially for that *width* and introducing features that other developers can't or do not want to do in order to make their games more accessible.

You probably can't comprehend that I personally do not care about what title game have, who is developing it and on which platform does it play. I have all platforms, play all driving games and like to consider myself an automotive fan. Every game does something better than other game and there is not one game that does everything perfect.

For the sake of this discussion I still wait for some things introduced in driving genre on consoles through various titles for more than 13 years now to become standard in all games. But it will never happen since business is a bad and ugly place where white-collar people are ruling the game.

Crazy enthusiasts such as Mark Cale are very rare and their ambition is often heavily overshadowed with reality. You can say pretty much for the Codemasters original TOCA team, or recently for those great guys of SLightly Mad who were so heavily restricted in their ideas by EA white-collar guys. Story of Bizzare Creations is the saddest one of course.

Back to subject, damage on aero-parts is nothing new or so strongly connected to Forza series. Even the first TOCA game (PSone/PC) had full aero damage modeling, mechanical and visual damage, cockpit view and so on. It was 1997 backthen. TOCA Race Driver 3 reached unmatchable scale of damage modeling for both mechanical/visual components of the vehicles on consoles and no later console game come even close to those. For visual damage standards, nothing beats GRID, although it is arcadish physics-wise.

My point is not to argue is the "ownership-maintenance" approach of GT games towards building care of the overall condition of the vehicle in your possession - of which the handicapping of the aerodynamic capabilities is just a part - *better* or *worse* than real-time damage as in many other games.

My point is to highlight how it is not so simple to bash something just because initial view on subject makes it *less important* or *inferior* or *non-existent* just because it isn't jumping on you screaming "Look at me, I am here!".

 

[VXR]

Hopefully the cones are for driving line users as an extra guide...

 

[dzidza]

Exactly!👍

I just cant get enough of this vid. I can see myself talking like Jezza during the replays..lol

Is there any mentions about Stig's times in different car or it just KIA!?

 

[Spagetti69]

Seb Vettle is doing a lap in the reasonably priced car.

Hope T10 put the stars times in the virtual board.

Even better a virtual ghost.

 

[dzidza]

Seb Vettle is doing a lap in the reasonably priced car.

Hope T10 put the stars times in the virtual board.

Even better a virtual ghost.

First you do a free run, one lap, and then based on your lap time, game loads next better time (ghost) then yours, of a star, unless you make a fastest time

 

[Bogie 19th]

That is terrible pwnd, t10 not saying about weather and night racing is actually them saying it will be in game.

Actually, that does not mean it's in the game if they don't comment.

Eurogamers prediction of that is as good as mine. We can discuss what we know, not what we think will be.

Since we know nothing, then we can't say.

Remember when t10 was asked for f3, will it have the same online as f2 (public lobbies), and how did that turned out in f3. They were saying that it will be the same, and they ditched public lobbies. So even then we can not trust t10 about what they say, and what goes into final game

Something may have happened to prevent it from making it to the game, be it last minute or what have you. That is like saying we can't trust PD anymore because they said GT5 would have direct YouTube export, and alas, we don't. Does that mean we shouldn't trust them? Um, no.

 

[amar212]

Something may have happened to prevent it from making it to the game, be it last minute or what have you. That is like saying we can't trust PD anymore because they said GT5 would have direct YouTube export, and alas, we don't. Does that mean we shouldn't trust them? Um, no.

No, it was pretty much deliberate move.

We got an somewhat explanation from Che Chou, community manager of T10 at that time, overthere at NeoGaf forums (discussion is like 100.000 posts long and I do not want to waste my time searching, but feel free to do it if you don't trust me).

Basically, Dan Greenawalt wanted to change the usual praxis of having majority of players playing "custom" matches in online in order to have saturated Public Lobbies for both casual and "hard-core" players. Solution was found in "hoppers-system", as seen in COD4 game - Che used COD4 as an instance - where all Public races are held as "hoppers". Idea was to avoid separation of the community in order to have Public Races full all the time and visible for all type of the players.

Problem was (is) that whole "hoppers" thing was pretty much built in the network-code as part of deliberate policy during programming, so after whole hard-core community freaked out when realized how "custom public online" is gone, nothing could be done about it.
Not to mention is how they deliberately *forgot* to mention that Custom Public Online Races will be completely gone from FM3 when preview-discs were sent for reviews. Of course, review-codes couldn't go online because official servers were not working and nobody even imagined they've ditched the Public Online. It was "discovered" on the initial release-day, but too late to be noted by mainstream media and made influential on final score or descriptions.

Numerous posts were written regarding that matter, and T10 *tried* to fix things with introduction of different types of "pro" hoppers. However, execution of every-each-one-of-them was beyond understandable.

It took them months to understand how people are angry about dominance of AWD cars, so RWD hoppers were created. However they killed RWD B class after 2 weeks, and left only A class - and soon only one car dominated all races. Then, they've introduced "no assist" hoppers which had both ABS and Driving Line as an option - which speaks for itself. Than they've introduced "Pro" hoppers which only had 3-7 laps race (you could have 7 laps only on Tsukuba BTW). Than, you could NEVER find any Public Race longer than 10 laps, so no logic of any strategy was involved (tire and fuel wear). Damage was also not a point. Worth noticing is that in all above described hoopers you couldn't race Nordschliefe, any Touge track, etc. Same goes for Stock Races, because all assists were still on disposal, and 5 laps race can't really satisfy noone who search for serious driving.

Fortunately, they came to their senses and FM4 will bring back Custom Public Online Races as in FM2 - together with the hoppers - and we'll have the best of both worlds.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I was actually posting in the thread at gaf that you are talking about. That doesn't change the fact that somethings are said will happen, then they change.

 

[dzidza]

Actually, that does not mean it's in the game if they don't comment. that was my point to eurogamers quote extracted by Hotspitta, i guess he believes that "no comment" means yes.



Since we know nothing, then we can't say. We do know a lot, but not everything, only what t10 said in those interviews



Something may have happened to prevent it from making it to the game, be it last minute or what have you. That is like saying we can't trust PD anymore because they said GT5 would have direct YouTube export, and alas, we don't. Does that mean we shouldn't trust them? Um, no.

PD said they could not implement youtube for various reasons before gt5 was released. T10 didn't say that there isn't going to be public lobbies, they kept it quiet untill we got the game. There is a big difference. If PD said that we'll have weather in gt5, and then later we found out it's not in the game, then yes, i wouldn't trust what they say.

I was actually posting in the thread at gaf that you are talking about. That doesn't change the fact that somethings are said will happen, then they change.

i have no problems with things being said that will happen, and than changed due to some reasons, but we as a customers have a right to know before we buy a product, especially when it's a major component of the game. False marketing is not something i like.

 

[Bogie 19th]

PD said they could not implement youtube for various reasons before gt5 was released.

News to us. Where did you hear about Youtube support being pulled prior the the release of the game? I wish you were in the threads here where everyone was looking for that feature after the game was released. Would have saved us a lot of time. Link to the confirmation prior to release if you would be so kind.

Not to mention, we are still waiting for it to be implemented.

i have no problems with things being said that will happen, and than changed due to some reasons, but we as a customers have a right to know before we buy a product, especially when it's a major component of the game. False marketing is not something i like.

Same here, which is why I was pissed when I found out GT5 didn't come with Youtube support as promised, and when FM3 didn't have the detail of cars ingame as promised.

 

[dzidza]

News to us. Where did you hear about Youtube support being pulled prior the the release of the game? I wish you were in the threads here where everyone was looking for that feature after the game was released. Would have saved us a lot of time. Link to the confirmation prior to release if you would be so kind.

Not to mention, we are still waiting for it to be implemented.



Same here, which is why I was pissed when I found out GT5 didn't come with Youtube support as promised, and when FM3 didn't have the detail of cars ingame as promised.

Maybe I am wrong with youtube feature, i can't find/watch all interviews (working right now :-)), so i'll agree with you that I'am wrong :-). How are we kidding, we will be buying anything they throw at us, as long as it's racing game.

 

[cuco33]

youtube upload won't be implemented for GT5. I'd welcome it even if it renders and uploads the video you created overnight. All I remember is that PD stated due to taking too long and how PS3 isn't as powerful to speed it up, it was pulled. So in my book... why the hell talk about it in interviews if the technicalities stopped you from doing it right? Reminds me of the GT4 online talk that never came, well at least in retail copy (there was a beta). Not a huge loss for me but I'd love to have made my own videos and uploaded them.

We got an somewhat explanation from Che Chou, community manager of T10 at that time, overthere at NeoGaf forums

This to me... was by far the biggest issue and root cause for the disconnect. Che, as community manager, posted SIGNIFICANTLY more on freakin NeoGAF of all places BEFORE posting information or answering questions on Forza's on FM.net forums..... way to go Che!

The ONLY problem with Forza 3's online for me was the lack of custom public lobbies. It was so awesome in Forza 2 that it lacking in Forza 3 was an eye soar. But it wasn't THAT bad. Game allowed 8 players online, and if you're on some websites and forums you could get into racing leagues and series created via private races. I mean today they are still going on. After experiencing online multiplayer in public lobbies in racing games, regardless of GT or Forza... it is such a huge 🤬 that I'd rather setup a private race than gamble on whether or not the public lobby will have Timmy's driving in reverse, wall grinding, or bumpNrun racing. On PC sims you rarely experience that, whereas on console racers it's the norm. I guess that's why I never cared too much for custom public lobbies.

 

[Hotspitta]

Fortunately, they came to their senses and FM4 will bring back Custom Public Online Races as in FM2 - together with the hoppers - and we'll have the best of both worlds.

Indeed they are back and that means the end of GT5...because Gt5 online is worse than Forza ever was..

 

[Luminis]

Indeed they are back and that means the end of GT5...because Gt5 online is worse than Forza ever was..

As if... GT has enough fans (and fanboys, for that matter) to survive whatever FM4 does. That's probably the thing that's causing me the most headaches about GT: PD doesn't even have a reason to learn from the mistakes they made, there's just too many people who're cool with whatever PD's doing.

Anyways, nobody's going to 'kill' GT any time soon. Luckily, though, that doesn't stop Forza from selling well, or me preffering FM over GT.

 

[Hotspitta]

As if... GT has enough fans (and fanboys, for that matter) to survive whatever FM4 does. That's probably the thing that's causing me the most headaches about GT: PD doesn't even have a reason to learn from the mistakes they made, there's just too many people who're cool with whatever PD's doing.

Anyways, nobody's going to 'kill' GT any time soon. Luckily, though, that doesn't stop Forza from selling well, or me preffering FM over GT.

Ok it will not kill but trust me it will bring some people over too the dark side...

 

[Spagetti69]

Talking about dropped features.

What happened to the GPS thing that was supposed to be in GT?.

And what was it's actual function supposed to be?

 

[Bogie 19th]

How are we kidding, we will be buying anything they throw at us, as long as it's racing game.

Damn straight!

 

[t.o.]

The ONLY problem with Forza 3's online for me was the lack of custom public lobbies. It was so awesome in Forza 2 that it lacking in Forza 3 was an eye soar. But it wasn't THAT bad. Game allowed 8 players online, and if you're on some websites and forums you could get into racing leagues and series created via private races. I mean today they are still going on. After experiencing online multiplayer in public lobbies in racing games, regardless of GT or Forza... it is such a huge 🤬 that I'd rather setup a private race than gamble on whether or not the public lobby will have Timmy's driving in reverse, wall grinding, or bumpNrun racing. On PC sims you rarely experience that, whereas on console racers it's the norm. I guess that's why I never cared too much for custom public lobbies.

As much as I can feel for those who wanted the public customs THIS is why I just couldn't sympathize that much for them being gone. I mean damn people don't have any friends online to race with? Why do you want to go into a lobby where a guy sets the PI to the EXACT number of his custom car that he knows nobody can mess with to rack up easy points and wins? Just too much BS to even be worth it.

As if... GT has enough fans (and fanboys, for that matter) to survive whatever FM4 does. That's probably the thing that's causing me the most headaches about GT: PD doesn't even have a reason to learn from the mistakes they made, there's just too many people who're cool with whatever PD's doing.

Anyways, nobody's going to 'kill' GT any time soon. Luckily, though, that doesn't stop Forza from selling well, or me preffering FM over GT.

I call it the "Madden Syndrome". No matter how bad that game gets it still sells millions.

Talking about dropped features.

What happened to the GPS thing that was supposed to be in GT?.

And what was it's actual function supposed to be?

Yeah the dropped youtube support was a real blow to me. The "weakling" 360 is uploading 720p video no problem but the almighty PS3 can't do squat? Come on man. And the reasoning is EXTREMELY stupid. "It takes too long for us to we're yanking it". WTF? How about letting the consumer decide if they want to wait or not. Man that really ticked me off.

The GPS thing sounded so far-fetched I didn't even believe that was going to be in the game anyway. lol. I seriously totally ignored that, I knew it wasn't going to happen.

 

[Hotspitta]

As much as I can feel for those who wanted the public customs THIS is why I just couldn't sympathize that much for them being gone. I mean damn people don't have any friends online to race with? Why do you want to go into a lobby where a guy sets the PI to the EXACT number of his custom car that he knows nobody can mess with to rack up easy points and wins? Just too much BS to even be worth it.


I call it the "Madden Syndrome". No matter how bad that game gets it still sells millions.


Yeah the dropped youtube support was a real blow to me. The "weakling" 360 is uploading 720p video no problem but the almighty PS3 can't do squat? Come on man. And the reasoning is EXTREMELY stupid. "It takes too long for us to we're yanking it". WTF? How about letting the consumer decide if they want to wait or not. Man that really ticked me off.

The GPS thing sounded so far-fetched I didn't even believe that was going to be in the game anyway. lol. I seriously totally ignored that, I knew it wasn't going to happen.

New video with Dan talking about Ai having specific helmets and racingsuits.

 

[Luminis]

Ok it will not kill but trust me it will bring some people over too the dark side...

Yeah, I think FM4 will definitely draw a few people to the Xbox side of things, and rightfully so. If T10 can sway just a few thousand people with every release, that's more than sufficient.
And, looking at the sales figures of past Forza games, they have been steadily increasing. So, it seems that T10 and FM are doing exactly that

I call it the "Madden Syndrome". No matter how bad that game gets it still sells millions.

Yeah... Some games just sell because of the badge on the front cover. I doubt that's going to work for more than just a few releases. I hope so, at least, so PD is forced to think twice about where they are going wth GT.

Just making the same game they have been making for the last decade isn't going to cut it.

New video with Dan talking about Ai having specific helmets and racingsuits.

I liked the part where Dan said that it's more about the diversity of the car list than the actual number, as it's more important to get most of the types of cars covered that palyers want to drive, instead of having the same car fifty times in the game...

Man, why do I get the feeling he's reffering to GT5 there?

 

[t.o.]

I liked the part where Dan said that it's more about the diversity of the car list than the actual number, as it's more important to get most of the types of cars covered that palyers want to drive, instead of having the same car fifty times in the game...

Man, why do I get the feeling he's reffering to GT5 there?

If you really pay attention you can tell he caught himself. He really wanted to take a direct jab at GT5 and say something like "a hundred skylines" but he caught himself and went with the more "professional" answer. Right when he said 'you don't want to have ... fifty of the same car".

PS: What did the interviewer say at the end?

 

[Luminis]

PS: What did the interviewer say at the end?

"So you heard it, it all sounds very good. Especially because GT5 was more on an 'okay' level, so I'm all the more excited for the upcoming Forza. Given how it looks and after playing it here, it's going to be awesome."

Just a rough translation, but, yeah, yet another very positive preview.

 

[t.o.]

"So you heard it, it all sounds very good. Especially because GT5 was more on an 'okay' level, so I'm all the more excited for the upcoming Forza. Given how it looks and after playing it here, it's going to be awesome."

Just a rough translation, but, yeah, yet another very positive preview.

Thanks. If the words "bier", "viesen","grosse" and "sexy sexy" isn't in it then I don't understand. lol Oh and marks and pfennings

 

[Luminis]

Thanks. If the words "bier", "viesen","grosse" and "sexy sexy" isn't in it then I don't understand. lol Oh and marks and pfennings

You're welcome. And those are probably the most important words anyways, as they'll get you lots and lots of beer

I'm kinda suprised that there are still new videos popping up. It's been a while since E³, so I've expected all of the footage to be uploaded by now. But it's definitely a nice suprise, especially if we're getting new info 👍

 

[t.o.]

Yeah I'm surprised too. I thought everything would be out by now. Maybe some guys are holding back so they're stuff doesn't get lost in the fray and get to stand on it's own while we're still hungry for more.