FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Akira AC]

Prove it. That's one of the requirements of this thread, to prove using evidence the claims that you make. You really are the most blinded poster in this thread. You pull this absolute tosh from nowhere without any proof or evidence. You truly think your opinions are fact. And at each instance it is thrown back in your face and countered with reasoned and informed arguments yet you still come back for more.

I'm not sure, is pretty clear that the topic is meant to move one, yet somehow flamebaiting is still allowed? I'm sorry but stop it, scaff clearly post that comparison vid and analysis to make the thread move on, mulling over the same people again with personal attacks(as first post states) just shows how irrational some posters are.

Is tempting to get back to this discussion, but it seems that some people are still in the same behaviour of flamebait instead of discussion, and that is what mainly composes FM side of the argument(in some cases entirely composes), there are good posters who present bias towards Forza, but it seems that there are posters that post just for the sake of flamebait, and that should be acknowledged.

 

[PzR Slim]

The following should add some lively debate to the thread.

The following is from an article on the Evo website (UK motoring magazine), I would strongly suggest watching the video that can be found on the link below before commenting and also reading info on the author of the piece (who is not a gamer)...


Source - http://www.evo.co.uk/forza4/article3.php

The author of the piece is Chris Harris, an experienced motoring journalist who has written on performance cars worldwide and also has aa good degree of racing experience as well (including the Carrerra cup and the N24).



Scaff

Thanks for that Scaff, very interesting read. Would have been nice if he had compared a range of drive types. I feel that one of the biggest areas of improvement of FM4 over 3 is how different different drive types feel.

I'm not sure, is pretty clear that the topic is meant to move one, yet somehow flamebaiting is still allowed? I'm sorry but stop it, scaff clearly post that comparison vid and analysis to make the thread move on, mulling over the same people again with personal attacks(as first post states) just shows how irrational some posters are.

Is tempting to get back to this discussion, but it seems that some people are still in the same behaviour of flamebait instead of discussion, and that is what mainly composes FM side of the argument(in some cases entirely composes), there are good posters who present bias towards Forza, but it seems that there are posters that post just for the sake of flamebait, and that should be acknowledged.

I'm sorry but read my posting history in this thread. I am not in the business of flame baiting. I am very much in the business of sensible, rational and informed discussion. However, I am fed up with posters like Sele posting this utter rubbish with no evidence or proof. You will also notice that I have challenged people from both sides of the debate on the nature of their posting. I hugely enjoy all racing games, I don't take sides out of some loyalty I feel to a certain game. I have a preference for one at this time in my gaming history which I try and communicate in this thread. That is the one thing that many from both sides in this thread just can't understand. There are some of us in this thread who have not sworn allegiance to one game and are just stating our opinions.

 

[Scaff]

Thanks for that Scaff, very interesting read. Would have been nice if he had compared a range of drive types. I feel that one of the biggest areas of improvement of FM4 over 3 is how different different drive types feel.

Funny you should say that, here's a less detailed but similar piece by Chris Harris on the F10 M5...

http://www.evo.co.uk/forza4/article2.php


Scaff

 

[PzR Slim]

Funny you should say that, here's a less detailed but similar piece by Chris Harris on the F10 M5...

http://www.evo.co.uk/forza4/article2.php


Scaff

Thanks once again. A group of mates and I had the exact same race in the M5 around the Nurburgring Gp circuit on launch night and the car was a beast ,far too much power and it felt as heavy as a tank. Seems FM4 has really stepped up to the plate and delivered in the handling department. It felt like that to me from just playing the demo and was hugely reinforced whe tootling about in the first fwd cars when I got the game but you never know if you are right. To hear some ones opinion who has recent experience of two cars both in game and real world proves that my initial reaction was right.

 

[cuco33]

I'd like to have seen a wheel being used although for the tests he did I can see why a controller was fine

 

[GTForzafan]

Scaff that's a great article.....
It's only just one more opinion, but too many pointed out that forza is too arcade, to be a sim, well that's just like that argument, about the cartoonish look....
Most of the times, the critics bash it only because it's not on the console of their choice....
To have a perspective, of someone that is not a gamer, but a car experienced journalist and can describe and review a game, without looking to the platform that is on....
Scaff did he do it also for other games ? Like GT5, Shift 2 and other sim-like games ?

 

[MagpieRacer]

Ok, bear with me here, bit of a long post but I said I would do this last night for a few people who wanted an unbiased screenshot comparison:

3 scenarios, 3 cars, 3 tracks. I tried to match the lighting and angles as best I could, I do realise some are off so dont go off on a tangent about it as I am aware some are wrong. Also, please note, these were done with each games "stock" photo settings. As you can see, GT5's stock settings have a few more adjustments applied whereas FM4's stock settings are untouched from what you see when you pause the game. So bear that in mind when comparing these also.
Tsukuba - Aston Martin DB9 - Sunshine
Shot 1
GT5

FM4

Ok so kicking off with a scenic shot of Tsukuba, firstly as you can see, although both are set in sun, it is coming from a different angle in each. Detail wise, its a close one to call, the major thing really is the tree at the back, not a very good looking tree in the FM4 shot, however Forza's grass looks better with GT5 edging it on road texture. I also personally feel Forza's lighting looks a little more real than GT5's.
Shot 2
GT5

FM4

Here we have the DB9 drifting beneath the Dunlop bridge. Again a simalair story here. The cars have very different appearances with the car in Forza looking a lot brighter, and the tyre smoke from GT5 looks a lot better than Forza's small puffs. The backgrounds here are very different, Forza has a lovely mountain vista whereas GT5, while it still has a mountain vista, its considerably smaller and in a very different position to the one in Forza. Small things like power-line direction and barrier colours also differ. Looking at real life shots, FM4 is closer in terms of where things are and colours of barriers etc.
Shot 3
GT5

FM4

We have here another shot more focussed on scenery. Looking at both pics, in terms of accuracy they are both pretty much spot on. Except for some differences in sponsors (xbox 360 etc) they are almost identical. Based on videos of the real circuit, GT5's pit wall is the correct colouring.
Lexus SC430 - Indianapolis - Sunshine
GT5

FM4

Okey dokey onto Indy. Again, both sunny and again its from differing angles. Kicking off with a view down the straight. The jagged shadows of GT5 very present here unfortunatly which gives the picture a big downer. A shame as it looks very good indeed. A massive downfall for Forza here is the road texture. Seemingly little effort has gone in to making it resemble the road surface as accurately as GT5 has. That said, although it is closer to the real one, its a strange shade of green.
Shot 2
GT5

FM4

Again, in these 2 shots very differing opinions on the road surface. Forza's is graphically nicer thanks to some low res textures on GT5. Again after looking at various photos of the real circuit both are pretty inaccurate, but this time Forza gets it closer. There is a distinct different in the tarmac between the oval and the GP circuit, and both games suffer from not differentiating them enough. Besides that, both games nail the scenery here.
Shot 3
GT5

FM4

Curse of the incorrect angles here so I apologise for that. GT5 looks a lot more photorealistic than Forza in this shot. Again both games look accurate although GT5's textures look a lot nicer in this shot than Forza's.
BMW Z4 - Sunset
Got the tracks wrong here as I thought GT5's Suzuka had sunset when it does not, dont know why I thought it did. So instead a lighting and car comparison.
Shot 1
GT5

FM4

Both games look very nice here. GT5 has a very blue tint in this shot however despite it being set to a sunset time. Although it is most likely to be down to the angle but whilst driving it was distinctly less sunset-y than Forza. The car models, both look good and are accurate. Forza's lighting again making it look a little better.
Shot 2
GT5

FM4

Tried to get a good look towards the sunset. Again Forza seems more accurate in how the time of day is portrayed, whilst GT5 does look good, it is not accurate in terms of the sunset lighting.

As you can see, in stock photomode form GT5 does look nicer. The next set of comparisons I will do will utilise the photomodes better with shots being adjusted for the best looking photos possible.
This is the key thing here because Forza's stock photos are just that, stock, whereas GT5 has some post processing even before you make your own adjustments. So look out this weekend for the "no holds barred" screenshot comparison this weekend along with a photo travel comparison.

Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading through.

 

[McLaren]

I'm not sure, is pretty clear that the topic is meant to move one, yet somehow flamebaiting is still allowed? I'm sorry but stop it, scaff clearly post that comparison vid and analysis to make the thread move on, mulling over the same people again with personal attacks(as first post states) just shows how irrational some posters are.

Is tempting to get back to this discussion, but it seems that some people are still in the same behaviour of flamebait instead of discussion, and that is what mainly composes FM side of the argument(in some cases entirely composes), there are good posters who present bias towards Forza, but it seems that there are posters that post just for the sake of flamebait, and that should be acknowledged.

I don't see how you can make a post like this when you've done the exact same thing you are blaming others of....

 

[Akira AC]

I don't see how you can make a post like this when you've done the exact same thing you are blaming others of....

Not the case, but I will not jerk your chain to produce exactly what I pointed out.



Also, nice shots MildAshers, FM4 benefits from fixed light sources and upgraded lighting engine, therefore the shadows and the different elements that compose the track look a lot better in some shoots.

I think that you should try Suzuka, one of the main problem with shoots from same angles is that the time in each track is not the same, things like the sun position in relation to the track due to the time of the day should be consider, as the time(not dynamic just for fixed lights) change the shadow projection.

Something else that should be consider is that FM4 benefits from upgraded renderers and higher resolution textures, what impresses me is that some of the textures look better on GT5, these textures are outdated in comparison to FM4's, but they still manage to keep up.

 

[McLaren]

Not the case, but I will not jerk your chain to produce exactly what I pointed out.

Um, no, exactly the case. This is the 2nd time you've come back into this thread out of nowhere just to make a remark about how others are acting, even though you were doing the exact same thing.

Who is it you claim is flame baiting on the Forza side & should be acknowledged?

 

[Akira AC]

Who is it you claim is flame baiting on the Forza side & should be acknowledged?

I'm making I mistake by doing this.

What about Hotspitta's and Bogie 19th's posts that only say "FM4 for the win"(not literally but you should be very aware that), exactly the same irrational posts that some GT posters tend to do, yet somehow FM posters are allowed to do that without any recalls from other FM posters. But when a GT poster say something similar about GT, a ton of people gets behind such stupidities regardless of their origin just to stack the discussion.

Best example of this is what you can see in this very page: Sele1981's posts gets flamed (as it should, because is an irrationality) by 6 or 7 people, fair enough he made a mistake he pays for it, then Scaff post something debatable or at least analysable to be discussed and move on, but then PzR Slim just wanted to keep going with the flaming, stacking up the discussion.

That is the very reason why I keep myself away from this thread, just like in some areas of the GT5 section the "enthusiasm" overcomes rationality, this thread is not an exception, now that FM-planet has been created I think that most of the FM "enthusiast" will go there, letting the discussion flow. However is a shame that the GT posters come here with the irrationality of the "GT soul" and stuff, personally there are thing to acknowledged from both games, things that can only be acknowledged without the "enthusiastic" posters.

 

[boomee]

hmm on all this I think I bow out and unsubscribe from this I like both games

 

[xxDingerxx]

MildAshers

Some good comparisons. Just a couple of things though. Dont know if its an exposure setting or in game brightness but GT5 seems a little bit to bright. Maybe you need to lower things a notch or two.

Problem though with GT5 shots of sunset. Basically its not, first clue was headlights were not fully on, the 2nd was the last pick the sun is still quite high (I would say you are over an hour out).

Judging by F4's shots (both shots face same direction) the sun is trying to break the horizon, blocked by a bit of cloud.

Here are two GT5 shots of the same corner, set 20 minutes apart (had to do it without the car as headlights would disrupt the shot). One with the sun just enough over the horizon making some impact on the road surface, the other with just the tip struggling to get over.

 

[Tesla]

Post waaaay up there with the comparison shots:

You mentioned FM4 looking more realistic than GT5 in the first comparison. Look at the massive bloom of the reflection on the metal wall. I'd say that largely contributed to the lack of realism compared to FM4. I think it's a lighting engine thing, as it is especially noticeable on other tracks as well.

 

[MagpieRacer]

MildAshers

Some good comparisons. Just a couple of things though. Dont know if its an exposure setting or in game brightness but GT5 seems a little bit to bright. Maybe you need to lower things a notch or two.

If you read the first bit again I state that I adjusted no settings at all, the photos are taken using the default settings. I will be doing comparisons utilising various settings this weekend to show how different the games can look with some adjustments. GT5 unfortunatly for this first comparison already has some adjustments made with its default settings.

Post waaaay up there with the comparison shots:

You mentioned FM4 looking more realistic than GT5 in the first comparison. Look at the massive bloom of the reflection on the metal wall. I'd say that largely contributed to the lack of realism compared to FM4. I think it's a lighting engine thing, as it is especially noticeable on other tracks as well.

I did not realise the wall is metal, in which case. FM4 still looks more realistic in that pic. Clearly GT5's metal wall is not shiny enough.

 

[PzR Slim]

Ok, bear with me here, bit of a long post but I said I would do this last night for a few people who wanted an unbiased screenshot comparison:

snip

I think this post proves that FM4 has made great strides in the visual department. At it's very best, can't wait to get Spa later, GT5 still looks better, the feeling of reality is just a touch more evident. I hope that FM5 can finally match GT in the looks department although the point might be moot if it's on the next xbox. And hopefully with GT6 PD will be able to keep the incredible visuals that exist in some instances in GT5 consistent across the whole game. If both companies can do that then as gamers we are in for and even better time than we have right now.

 

[MagpieRacer]

I think this post proves that FM4 has made great strides in the visual department. At it's very best, can't wait to get Spa later, GT5 still looks better, the feeling of reality is just a touch more.

Absolutely, I wish I could have got the same pics in FM3 alas I longer own the game.

At its best GT5 is better, which is why at the weekend I will do comparison of both games at their best rather than at the default photo settings so people will the see the line between them is actually very blurred.

 

[phil-t]

Digital Foundry 'Tech analysis' of FM4 is up, and it has some handy comparisons to GT5..

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-analysis-forza-motorsport-4

The end comparison on Page 3:

video:http://www.eurogamer.net/tv_video.php?playlist_id=109895&size=hd

The comparison is intriguing on a number of levels: it demonstrates that the aesthetic look of the two games is very, very different - especially in terms of the lighting, and that while Forza's performance level is wholly consistent at 60FPS, GT5 can drop frames and tear, even at 720p (with further frame-rate drops if running in 1080p or 3D modes). Also remarkable is how completely different the audio scheme is between the two games. On these courses at least, there's a pretty strong argument that Forza has considerably more track detail, but you can make up your own mind with this Forza 4/GT5 comparison gallery.

The overall impression we get from playing both games back-to-back is that each has its own strengths: in terms of the handling and audio Turn 10 could well have moved ahead of its competition while Polyphony's minute attention to detail (to the point of implementing working headlights/dynamic shadows in the cockpit view) plus the sheer range of different driving scenarios remains second to none. Both titles excel in their own ways - especially in terms of visuals - and we have the feeling that motorsport fans probably own both consoles and are equally invested in both games. We aim to take a look at how these games play with a number of different steering wheel peripherals in a future Digital Foundry hardware article.

A very balanced article, perhaps a bit too balanced at times, it's hard to equate games that have quite diverse strengths, but at least it's from a credible source.

 

[Ryan81]

Those two sunset pics of GT5 are just.....WOW!!

I disagree with you though, Mild.

I think the first two comparison pics using the Z4 show (imo) that GT5 looks a bit better. Could be because the taillights are actually on, whereas they are not in the FM4 shot. It just looks a tad more realistic to me but I do agree that Forza is better in other shots.

 

[Ibonibo]

Hello fellow racers,

i still don't have FM4 and it depends on one thing, which I would nicely ask if someone here can help me out.

I need a Fanatec owner:
Set Sen to 900, go to outside view and reverse the camera so you see the front.

Now if you turn your wheel to either side does the tires/wheel movement is 1:1?

In FM3 it wasn't! (it turned all the way but in steps, compared to GT5 where every degree on the wheel corresponded on the degree of th tire movement)

So is 900° now supported natively or not.

Can someone take a look at that and give me a honest answer?

 

[PzR Slim]

Hello fellow racers,

i still don't have FM4 and it depends on one thing, which I would nicely ask if someone here can help me out.

I need a Fanatec owner:
Set Sen to 900, go to outside view and reverse the camera so you see the front.

Now if you turn your wheel to either side does the tires/wheel movement is 1:1?

In FM3 it wasn't! (it turned all the way but in steps, compared to GT5 where every degree on the wheel corresponded on the degree of th tire movement)

So is 900° now supported natively or not.

Can someone take a look at that and give me a honest answer?

If you turn your wheel through 900 degrees the wheel in the telemetry screen, which only turns about 270 degrees, does take the whole of the 900 degree rotation of your Fanatec to complete it's 270 degrees. However, the wheel is more sensitive around the centre. So it turns more in game around the centre than when you get to larger degrees of rotation. There is also currently an issue that T10 are looking into in regard to an anomaly when countersteering using a 900 degree wheel.

Why did you post this in the GT v FM thread?

 

[Ibonibo]

Thanks pzR Slim.

So not what I was hoping for. Native 900° support.
But well, being a gearhead, I will probably get it afterall.

I put it here because I didn't know where else to post it.
here people have both games. And I didn't want to create a thread for just a question.

Thanks

 

[GTForzafan]

here people have both games.

Not everyone, but they are easy to identify. They are the ones, that are defending either game like if it was it's own child....

Another fault, in my opinion for forza 4, it's the Big shot thingy.... it takes ages to upload that Huge Picture....
But this isn't Turn10's error, it's Microsoft policy of " Only buy products with Our signature..." and security measures for the Usb file transfer...
Also in GT5 like mildashers said Gt5 makes noobs great photographers, because it adjusts itself...
Forza 4 photomode needs to be tweaked, to get great photos...

 

[badeddy]

Hello fellow racers,

i still don't have FM4 and it depends on one thing, which I would nicely ask if someone here can help me out.

I need a Fanatec owner:
Set Sen to 900, go to outside view and reverse the camera so you see the front.

Now if you turn your wheel to either side does the tires/wheel movement is 1:1?

In FM3 it wasn't! (it turned all the way but in steps, compared to GT5 where every degree on the wheel corresponded on the degree of th tire movement)

So is 900° now supported natively or not.

Can someone take a look at that and give me a honest answer?

There is a workaround to get the wheel to read 900% correctly search these forums there is a vid of it and i have posted on the link so simply find all my old post to locate it. It's fairly easy to do and works wonders.

Here is the link to the workaround to get the steering to register 1:1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCKeQVEXW7c&feature=player_embedded

 

[Tenacious D]

Digital Foundry 'Tech analysis' of FM4 is up, and it has some handy comparisons to GT5..

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-analysis-forza-motorsport-4

It's interesting that no one seems to have noticed that only your car has the roaring engine sounds - in offline play at least. Watch a replay and listen to the cars as they pass the cameras. I suspect that T10 had to use many of the same shortcuts Codemasters did with Toca to make Forza 4 run as well as it does with better graphics and more cars with more detail.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Also in GT5 like mildashers said Gt5 makes noobs great photographers, because it adjusts itself...
Forza 4 photomode needs to be tweaked, to get great photos...

I'm going to say that this isn't true - having now spent a good bit of time with FM4, yeah, it needs to be tweaked to get the best out of it, but the same is true of GT. People who have little understanding of how a camera works will struggle to get good pictures in GT5's Photomode, as evidenced by the amount of out-of-focus, blurry images floating around. That said, a few minutes worth of reading can flesh out all the options available, and while GT's Photomode isn't as user-friendly as FM4's slider-happy affair, it does provide more control once you do know the settings.

The file uploading is a bit of a pain, but at least with the standard size, it's pretty painless now - if I'm playing FM4, and choose to upload an image, once I get the successful notice in-game, I can head straight to My Forza on my PC and it's there. The main limiting factor I have is the compression (both games do it, but Forza's is still slightly more noticeable), and the limit of 18 at a time. But really, since I don't have to exit the game to transfer them to my USB like I do with GT5, it's actually slightly quicker for me to do it FM4's way. As long as it isn't a giant batch of images at once, that is...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

So GT5 kicked me and all the other hundreds of people offline tonight...anyone know why?

 

[zevehcj]

Well, according to the guys from insidesimracing.tv, Forza 4 still has that permanent driving aid (steer assist) which I know many of you will be displeased by. Also, from the youtube videos I've watched, the Nordshleife still looks way too wide. These are a few things that caught my attention and immediately turned me off.

steering assist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXVDzyaSlmA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTfJVHhdBgw&feature=related

1:03 minute mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uKZLdSZsCB4

Nordshleife
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsLs4xB9u4s

I'm certain Forza 4 is a lot of fun but little things like that just make me cringe.

 

[Scaff]

Well, according to the guys from insidesimracing.tv, Forza 4 still has that permanent driving aid (steer assist) which I know many of you will be displeased by. Also, from the youtube videos I've watched, the Nordshleife still looks way too wide. These are a few things that caught my attention and immediately turned me off.

steering assist
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXVDzyaSlmA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTfJVHhdBgw&feature=related

1:03 minute mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uKZLdSZsCB4

Nordshleife
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsLs4xB9u4s

I'm certain Forza 4 is a lot of fun but little things like that just make me cringe.

Both have been discussed here already, the steering aid is one that is getting patched out (T10 have already confirmed this and given that PD have had to patch for issues since launch confirms this is unfortunately just a part of the age we live in).

In regard to the 'ring, its still not perfect in FM4 which is disappointing, but I hope that you apply that same level of critique to Laguna Seca (which has issues in GT5).

Oh and that third video does help at all, who the hell edited it does themselves no favours at all.
Anyone who wnats to watch the full and un-edited version can find it here:

http://www.insidesimracing.tv/videos/view/586/0/Forza4

In which you will find the good as well as the bad (physics from around 19.30 to the end including the praise of the FFB and clutch), also confirming that they are doing a two part review as they did with GT5.


Scaff

 

[zevehcj]

the steering aid is one that is getting patched out (T10 have already confirmed this

Scaff

Excellent, this is the first I've heard of this. Hopefully they patch it soon.