FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Scaff]

Excellent, this is the first I've heard of this. Hopefully they patch it soon.

The issue was raised on the T10 facebook page and T10 have said the intend to patch it ASAP, the main delay will be with the MS checks before it can be released (seems that is always the delay with both MS and Sony).

Fingers crossed its sooner rather than later.


Scaff

 

[goldiefx]

here's my 2 cents, i own both, and both have good points and bad, but 1 thing is the same, i enjoy playing both, but i only play 1, for me gt5 never felt like it was complete, compared to other gt games the number of races was pretty low, yes pd tried to fix this with seasonal events, but i still kept asking my self why did it take so long to produce this, and since i reached lvl 40 i have asked my self what the point of playing. but what really did it for me was the new dlc, i might get flamed for this but.... for the life of me i can figure out why people are so excited for paying for rm versions of cars in the are already in the game, imo that is almost as bad as the money grab from EA where you can pay money to unlock everything in nfs with out actually doing anything.

yea having spa is cool, but i still cant understand why , and i'm slightly bothered by the fact kaz said " its the fans that will determine how gt 5 will evolve" so why then when we asked for more cars we can rm,why are we being charged for what we asked for?
imo what is next charging for what was promised to be in the game before launch? like all the tracks and cars from the other gt games.

but like i said i enjoyed playing both, i just have a hard time ignoring some of what has been gone on with gt5

if gt5 had the same amount of races, and the same dlc as fm4 with new cars not different versions of cars that are already in the game i would be giving them both equal time

imo if your a car nut and own both systems, get em both

flame me if you must, i really dont care, i'm just voicing my point of view

 

[azrael1965]

I have to say after playing a few days with FM4 , that i get more and more impressed by its physics. And i really enjoy to drive in cockpit view, something i didn't in GT5. Give me a accurate Nordschleife as DLC and i would say bye to GT5.

 

[PzR Slim]

I have to say after playing a few days with FM4 , that i get more and more impressed by its physics. And i really enjoy to drive in cockpit view, something i didn't in GT5. Give me a accurate Nordschleife as DLC and i would say bye to GT5.

I agree about the physics, I get more and more impressed by them every time I play. Hopefully T10 can sort this 900 degree sim steering issue out.

 

[Ryan81]

There is no doubt in my mind that PD must be laughing their ass off at this point. I mean, it's quite obvious that not much work went into this DLC and yet so many people are screaming and jumping for joy as if it's the best thing they've ever experienced. What T10 do is what I call REAL DLC- cars that people want and vote for for the most part, tracks people vote for etc. I doubt anyone voted for these RM cars.

 

[azrael1965]

There is no doubt in my mind that PD must be laughing their ass off at this point. I mean, it's quite obvious that not much work went into this DLC and yet so many people are screaming and jumping for joy as if it's the best thing they've ever experienced. What T10 do is what I call REAL DLC- cars that people want and vote for for the most part, tracks people vote for etc. I doubt anyone voted for these RM cars.

I agree about the cars, but Spa is simply great. Of course i am extremly biased as a european but Nordschleife & Spa > Laguna Seca, which is a great track but nowhere on the level of Spa or the ring. i would like to see bathurst somewhere.

 

[MagpieRacer]

FM3 had superb DLC.
10 Motorsport Legends Car Pack DLC [FREE/Oct. 17 '09]
3 Hyundai Genesis Car Pack DLC [FREE/Nov. 17 '09]
9 Hot Holidays Car Pack DLC [400 MSP/Dec. 8 '09]
1 Hot Holidays Car Sample DLC [FREE/Dec. 8 '09]
9 AutoWeek Car Show Pack DLC [400 MSP/Jan. 12 '10]
1 AutoWeek Car Show Sample DLC [FREE/Jan. 12 '10]
9 Jalopnik Car Pack DLC [400 MSP/March 9 '10]
1 Jalopnik Car Sample DLC [FREE/March 9 '10]
9 Road&Track Car Pack DLC [400 MSP/April 13 '10]
1 Road&Track Car Sample DLC [FREE/April 13 '10]
9 Exotic Car Pack DLC [400 MSP/May 11 '10]
1 Exotic Car Sample DLC [FREE/May 11 '10]
9 Summer Velocity Car Pack DLC [400 MSP/June 8 '10]
1 Summer Velocity Car Sample DLC [FREE/June 8 '10]
9 World Class Car Pack DLC [400 MSP/July 12 '10]
1 World Class Car Sample DLC [FREE/July 12 '10]
3 Stig's Garage Car Pack [FREE w/FM3UC/Oct. 26 '10]
7 FM3UC Exclusive Cars [FREE w/FM3UC/Oct. 26 '10]
9 Community Choice Classics Pack DLC [400 MSP/Dec. 14 '10]
1 Community Choice Classics Sample DLC [FREE/Dec. 14 '10]

A lot of brilliant cars came out in these packs.

 

[UKMikey]

To be fair I think the samples were all included in their corresponding track packs so they don't really add to the overall DLC car count for FM3. Otherwise, what MildAshers said.

 

[PzR Slim]

There is no doubt in my mind that PD must be laughing their ass off at this point. I mean, it's quite obvious that not much work went into this DLC and yet so many people are screaming and jumping for joy as if it's the best thing they've ever experienced. What T10 do is what I call REAL DLC- cars that people want and vote for for the most part, tracks people vote for etc. I doubt anyone voted for these RM cars.

I think Spa is a fantastic addition but the rest, particularly the cars, seems really weak. I would much have preferred to have some totally new stock cars that didn't already appear in the game in a different guise. So 10/10 for Spa but 2/10 for the rest.

 

[GTForzafan]

By the way, Is it true that the GT5 DLC is limited to one Account ?
Really ? Dumb move...
I mean, most people have different acounts, because they are free ?

 

[chromatic9]

I just bought SPA only. PD have done an excellent job with that and it was only £3, could argue its £2 or £1.50 as the kart track has had a lot of work put in too.

The car pack is just lol and costs over £6 on its own. I wasn't tempted to pay £10 for the full pack. PD should be offering the paints free or patching the game so you can make your own colour/texture and then have a A-Z list of all the manufactures paints and textures.

I'll get the livery pack if its dirt cheap as some of the cars do look good

 

[Sele1981]

Well, according to the guys from insidesimracing.tv, Forza 4 still has that permanent driving aid (steer assist) which I know many of you will be displeased by. Also, from the youtube videos I've watched, the Nordshleife still looks way too wide. These are a few things that caught my attention and immediately turned me off.

1:03 minute mark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uKZLdSZsCB4

I'm certain Forza 4 is a lot of fun but little things like that just make me cringe.

Man forget it, even the pro´s who tests tons of SIM´s are wrong, FM4 is perfect (physics) according to the pro´s here... 👍

I find it so hilarious that T10 makes a (very expensive) wheel together with Fanatec and then put in steering assists and an 270° degree

Anyway, both games are mostly for casual gamers, so we, the ~5%, are not the main focus.

 

[Scaff]

Man forget it, even the pro´s who tests tons of SIM´s are wrong, FM4 is perfect (physics) according to the pro´s here... 👍

Given that no one in this thread has said such a thing about either GT5 or FM4 please leave the inflammatory comments at the door if you wish to contribute to this thread.


Scaff

 

[HAL20XX]

By the way, Is it true that the GT5 DLC is limited to one Account ?
Really ? Dumb move...
I mean, most people have different acounts, because they are free ?

Isn't that how it is on the Xbox though? I've never really paid attention, but I seem to remember from my Rockband days that if we signed into a different profile, none of my songs were available.

My wife doesn't really use my Xbox so I'm not really sure.

 

[cuco33]

Man forget it, even the pro´s who tests tons of SIM´s are wrong, FM4 is perfect (physics) according to the pro´s here... 👍

I find it so hilarious that T10 makes a (very expensive) wheel together with Fanatec and then put in steering assists and an 270° degree

Anyway, both games are mostly for casual gamers, so we, the ~5%, are not the main focus.

No one has said Forza 4 has perfect physics but... whatever nonsense dribble you want to claim not to make you feel better I guess.

T10 doesn't make a wheel with Fanatec. Fanatec makes a wheel which works with XBOX360 and is the 'official wheel' of Forza 4. What bodily orifice are you pulling this stuff from??

That steering assist (even if one exists)/270deg mode is a bug

 

[Akira AC]

But there is a thing that I don't get from the "steering glitch".

You see, I like to test physics from both games on Laguna Seca because there are good referential videos about it to base conclusions, at first I took a Honda NSX(same version that Clarkson used in GT4 vs Real video) and I try to replicate the same conditions(about the same tyre compound and tyre usage, neither game simulates the fading of the brakes or track temperature that indeed affects the grip levels of the tyres).

Surprise surprise in both games the cars spun in the last corner(as Clarkson did with the real NSX, I should note that on FM3 this spun never happened, but in FM4 it did happen, even with a higher grip tyre compound), being aggressive in the last corner with the throttle will generate an impressive amount of oversteer, the same can be said about corner two in which you can also spin with higher powered car(in both games).

But here is the thing, on FM4 taking the Corvette CR5 Racing model I noticed that the glitch makes the spun harder to produce, generating in some cases an irregular drift(this happened many times on FM3), the problem is that in both GT5 and FM2 the spun did happened after the second corner with both cars. This makes me wonder about the authenticity of the "glitch", since what it does is a steering correction right on the points where most people will get it wrong(and loose control of the car).

Its been said that the physics model on FM4 is largely improved from FM3 and that statement will be right, the weight transfer model now seem to be correct(in most of the cases it seems to be more accurate than GT5's, this can also be noticed since videos from E3 in which the Cee'd shown the upgraded suspension and weight transfer model), the mechanical grip and physics in general seem to be also spot on, I'm not sure yet about how the aerodynamics work in both games(since there are no open wheel in Forza, and the only comparison point are LMP prototypes ) but it should be said that the weird "magical grip" is now gone and that is a huge plus for the game compared to GT5. What I don't get is why the game seem to be "easier" than FM2, I put the "steering correction" as an example of why is not simulating the throttle response and car control as it should(notice that the game has upgraded physics, which in theory should provide a closer representation to the real thing, and please notice that the spun in that specific condition with the CR5 should happen, but it doesn't), that particular issue is a drawback, and it doesn't exclusively belong to the CR-5, the same can be said when testing both Pagani Zonda and Corvettes.

I should also say that I rented the game last week, I saw the carrer mode structure and some of the elements and I wasn't that really impress, yes the graphical output is somewhat impressing but most of the game is largely the same thing as FM3, likewise I don't see why the Steering assists removal is having so much impact in these sort of consideration when FM1 and FM2 did not present that issue, and is yet to be confirm if the steering glitch is in fact a glitch rather than a hidden assist. I have plans to buy the game, but I wont do that now (BF3+MW3+Batman+AC:AH=240USD, a lot for games if I'm honest) therefore I believe that I cant do some comparisons regarding the physics model. I do have some gripes with FM4's career structure and online modes(stuff that I already said in previous posts) but I will keep them to myself, as GT5's career mode is also broken it should be said that personally I consider FM4 career mode a bit more broken and repetitive, something that will be explained in another time.

 

[cuco33]

If discussing career modes... GT5's is beyond broken. Forza 4's isn't perfect, quite good with World Tour (even with some issues) addition but it is massively superior to GT5. Remember that in GT5 you are forced to grind and hunt for cars in the used car dealership. Luckily those patches fixed a bit of these issues like including seasonals and online car dealership. Licenses mean nothing now aside from being events to try to gold. I was never a fan of licenses because they would bring out raging cuco at times but they made sense. Get a license to race certain events. And now it means nothing.

 

[Akira AC]

If discussing career modes... GT5's is beyond broken. Forza 4's isn't perfect, quite good with World Tour (even with some issues) addition but it is massively superior to GT5. Remember that in GT5 you are forced to grind and hunt for cars in the used car dealership. Luckily those patches fixed a bit of these issues like including seasonals and online car dealership. Licenses mean nothing now aside from being events to try to gold. I was never a fan of licenses because they would bring out raging cuco at times but they made sense. Get a license to race certain events. And now it means nothing.

Punctually that summarizes most of the problems with GT5's career mode, in FM4 however there are things that should be addressed, to make this point clear please consider how FM1 and FM2 manage the career progression and events.

In FM1 and FM2 there was always the problem of how to control or improve player skill without the usage of licensing test, a solution for this was the addition of driving assist(not like the ones of FM3, punctually these will be TCS, ABS and of course AT/MT transmission) and the addition of the driving line, by putting these elements at the player disposal, along with a well planted levelling up system the player acquire more easily skill to manage and drive more advanced cars, it should also be said that the events on both FM1 and FM2 are more varied because their respective car listing was well distributed within the range of F class to R1 classes, this listing also considerer the specific car type to create special events like 70's car events and Duelling race events. This was perfectly managed in both games as they still had the had a better approach to sim racing racing.

FM2 presented the optimal way to implement the system, there weren't really problems with it but the problem resides on its sequel FM3, one mayor problem is FM3's casual approach, FM2 presented a model which was still optimal for newcomers and experienced drivers, what FM3 did was broke the levelling up system parameters by making them easier to reach, this at the same time make inexperienced players drive harder cars that they were not supported to at the time, as the player need to identify the differences in how a front wheel car drives, compared to a rear wheel drive car does, compared to a 4WD car, these specific events for this kind exists, however these should be the base for the player to explore how each car drives and how each condition affects driving(noticed also that the very basic races on FM1 and FM2 involved these kinds of races, and please notice that the "magical grip" broke the identity of some of these cars).

This, added to the altered cars list made the events limited in comparison to its predecessors, this consist the second mayor problem with FM games in general, in FM3 and FM4 the cars listing on stock seem to go exclusively towards C to A classes, the cars can be modified to full fill the spectrum, however classical racing and more specific types of races are still absent on FM games(some of the races present duels between car makers, however often the cars involved in these races are really unbalanced).

The solution that T10 implemented to solve this problem is the class racing system(world racing series/championships, tournaments and endurance events for classes from F->R1), but this in itself is problem because is mainly grind, each class presents the same lead racer(in the case of A for example the fastest car, the car that always wins is the F430), which makes the A class events a race against the F430, this combined with the different ways in which these races are presented makes half of the career mode the same 10 races against the same 10 cars(1 car to beat per class, 10 classes in the racing spectrum), having seen the events list on FM4, is not surprise that the same grind exists since half of the screen is filled up with these events, and the car listing+track listing could have outputted a better career system.


In GT's case this has always have been perfectly managed(until GT4), since the career structure and game progression depended on player skill. The main problem with GT5 is the levelling up systems and car acquisition systems, in GT4 this was perfectly managed as the Licenses worked as level breakthrough and the car gifts always allowed a continuation to the career mode, GT5 tried to be bolder than that by implementing the same level up system that FM uses for player progression, but this cannot be done as the events on GT5 depend on the cars rather than an specific class of races(in GT F->R1 classes doesn't exists).

The events build upon the different cars exist(but not as well as GT4 did) and they make up for interesting challenges, the same can be said about the different events but by making these silly mistakes PD screw entirely the career mode for GT5, as it should have been far better with the new track generator/time changes/wide car selection.

In conclusion GT5 provide better events, proper endurance events exists and also proper challenges and events, this is being implemented on FM4 but not in the same way and not at the same rate, Top gear events are interesting however the lack of more varied races does not justify the grind that half of the FM4 events and challenges provides.

Sorry for the long post, I have to get that FM problem out my system.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Someone thinks the career mode is in GT5 is good? Really? Thats a bit of a stretch even for the die hard fans of GT5.

The fact that its not only a grind, but you can cheat it. Sorry but not enough A spec, or a decent PI level makes it pretty pathetic.

 

[Akira AC]

Someone thinks the career mode is in GT5 is good? Really? Thats a bit of a stretch even for the die hard fans of GT5.

The fact that its not only a grind, but you can cheat it. Sorry but not enough A spec, or a decent PI level makes it pretty pathetic.

I'm not saying that GT5 career mode is good, because it isn't. But FM4 isn't any better with its structure and event listing.

 

[Bogie 19th]

I find that FM4 is substantially better with it's World Tour Mode, as well as the optional Event listing. I like the way it progresses from entry level to professional throughout, but giving the user a choice as to whether or not they want to go forward with the more professional difficulty, or stick with the class they are comfortable with. I also am glad that World Tour Mode will adapt it's difficultly on the fly, from one race to the next.

Secondly, the events, with the world map, with each different setup. Races from multiclass, to Camaro vs. Mustang, American vs. Japanese. There are so many different events and so much exposure to new cars and new locations, it's great. Not to mention, a car is always available for you to choose from for the next challenge. You are never scrambling for buying a car, and you are gift cars of your choice.

GT5, in my experience, fails miserably. The only thing that I have found to be of any relevance to me in the career mode of GT5 are the endurance races. Granted, I have no desire to do them, but I am glad they are there for others that do. I will never get a complete trophy in GT5 because I will never being doing the endurance races.

Most likley, I will not get all of the events done in FM4, because it's a staggering 1000+ events.

 

[cuco33]

Just an FYI... I hate multiquoting but I think it's needed here:

Punctually that summarizes most of the problems with GT5's career mode, in FM4 however there are things that should be addressed, to make this point clear please consider how FM1 and FM2 manage the career progression and events.

That's just some of the problems in GT5's career mode. There's a lot of problems and not explained to you anywhere. As one example, many folks bought the Ferrari F1 cars to race the formula series only to find out all their hard earned grinding for those nice Ferrari forumla cars was for nothing. You could only use an FGT in that race. Could be a licensing thing but it'd be nice if they explained that you can only use the FGT. How about, before the OCD patch, the only means to get a pick up truck race outside of being lucky and getting it in the UCD was by completing the 2nd to last license event, of which NO license event dealt with a pick up truck.. Car wash and oil change to me means nothing but a time waster which could put your car above certain restrictions with no means to resolve it, pre patch which allowed you to dial back power. Even the special events have their own problems, like the design idea behind the Top Gear event... who in their right mind though racing VW Samba Bus was genius? Or a Lotus 111R with comfort softs, a tire that doesn't even come from the factory? And the grind, by far the biggest issue in my book. I don't recall exactly but leveling up between 39 and 40 was the same amount as leveling up between level 1 and 39. Seasonal events, another patch, helped fix some of this grind along with adding events, better ones in my book, over what the career had. Some career events having some of the worst standard cars, like the Lupo cup, and being a standard.. same issue as the pickup truck event.. Or how about getting longer races or better prizes in Bspec over Aspec? No means to save your race and go online if doing an endurance event or a series event, until that too was patched. Or how about the car disparity between standard vs premium where you couldn't use cockpit view in 80% of the cars, until now where you guessed it... via patch. And how can I modify a race car by adding chassis reinforcement when the race car is a race car with bars all over? List is long and I only touched on some of them.

In FM1 and FM2 there was always the problem of how to control or improve player skill without the usage of licensing test, a solution for this was the addition of driving assist(not like the ones of FM3, punctually these will be TCS, ABS and of course AT/MT transmission) and the addition of the driving line, by putting these elements at the player disposal, along with a well planted levelling up system the player acquire more easily skill to manage and drive more advanced cars, it should also be said that the events on both FM1 and FM2 are more varied because their respective car listing was well distributed within the range of F class to R1 classes, this listing also considerer the specific car type to create special events like 70's car events and Duelling race events. This was perfectly managed in both games as they still had the had a better approach to sim racing racing.

TCS, ABS, AT/MT, driving line, etc are in GT5. And in Forza games especially FM4 you have a range of car classes from slow F to super fast R1s, along with specific car events like old school muscle races to executive car races to even a Fiat 500 event, etc.. I don't follow your point here...

FM2 presented the optimal way to implement the system, there weren't really problems with it but the problem resides on its sequel FM3, one mayor problem is FM3's casual approach, FM2 presented a model which was still optimal for newcomers and experienced drivers, what FM3 did was broke the levelling up system parameters by making them easier to reach, this at the same time make inexperienced players drive harder cars that they were not supported to at the time, as the player need to identify the differences in how a front wheel car drives, compared to a rear wheel drive car does, compared to a 4WD car, these specific events for this kind exists, however these should be the base for the player to explore how each car drives and how each condition affects driving(noticed also that the very basic races on FM1 and FM2 involved these kinds of races, and please notice that the "magical grip" broke the identity of some of these cars).

FM3 improved on FM2's career mode. FM4 improved even more on top of FM3 so by default FM4 >>> FM2 in terms of career. And you have access to making the game as casual or as core sim as you like. What's wrong with that?
Want autobrake, rewind, no damage and driving line? You got it.
Want full sim mode, full damage, no driving line, no rewind access? You got it.
Again, I don't follow..

This, added to the altered cars list made the events limited in comparison to its predecessors, this consist the second mayor problem with FM games in general, in FM3 and FM4 the cars listing on stock seem to go exclusively towards C to A classes, the cars can be modified to full fill the spectrum, however classical racing and more specific types of races are still absent on FM games(some of the races present duels between car makers, however often the cars involved in these races are really unbalanced).

You start off in F class race events that you race against solely F class cars. Same goes for E, D, C, etc. Classic racing is there, I just did an old school muscle car race event with a grid of just American muscle cars. Again, I don't follow..

The solution that T10 implemented to solve this problem is the class racing system(world racing series/championships, tournaments and endurance events for classes from F->R1), but this in itself is problem because is mainly grind, each class presents the same lead racer(in the case of A for example the fastest car, the car that always wins is the F430), which makes the A class events a race against the F430, this combined with the different ways in which these races are presented makes half of the career mode the same 10 races against the same 10 cars(1 car to beat per class, 10 classes in the racing spectrum), having seen the events list on FM4, is not surprise that the same grind exists since half of the screen is filled up with these events, and the car listing+track listing could have outputted a better career system.

M. Rossi was always the best driver, the boss if you will, and he always was the better and more aggressive AI of the lot. In FM4 you can get the best driver/car to be your main competition or any of the other AI drivers because they fight each other. I noticed a battle between 3, 4 and 5 place up until 2nd, who was behind me, overshot a turn sending him to the grass. The leader of that 3-4-5 pack creeped up on me as I was going easier in the race due to the track. Want to see the same car finishing in the same place? Load up GT5 and load up a race where a Toyota 7 or Chaparral 2J is in the grid. Again, I don't follow..

In GT's case this has always have been perfectly managed(until GT4), since the career structure and game progression depended on player skill. The main problem with GT5 is the levelling up systems and car acquisition systems, in GT4 this was perfectly managed as the Licenses worked as level breakthrough and the car gifts always allowed a continuation to the career mode, GT5 tried to be bolder than that by implementing the same level up system that FM uses for player progression, but this cannot be done as the events on GT5 depend on the cars rather than an specific class of races(in GT F->R1 classes doesn't exists).

The events build upon the different cars exist(but not as well as GT4 did) and they make up for interesting challenges, the same can be said about the different events but by making these silly mistakes PD screw entirely the career mode for GT5, as it should have been far better with the new track generator/time changes/wide car selection.

It's similar in both games. You have a euro dtm race series, you use.. you guessed it, euro dtm cars. Seasonals tend to follow PPI structure which is essentially the same thing. T10 wanted to make a challenge and filter the classes so that A class races A class cars and B class races B class cars, etc. Again, I don't follow...

In conclusion GT5 provide better events, proper endurance events exists and also proper challenges and events, this is being implemented on FM4 but not in the same way and not at the same rate, Top gear events are interesting however the lack of more varied races does not justify the grind that half of the FM4 events and challenges provides.

Sorry for the long post, I have to get that FM problem out my system.

Better events? Debateable, but if looking at the game career I'd give a substantially bigger nod to T10 solely for having many more of them. Seasonals helped a lot, and I find the seasonal events to be better layout than whatever PD thought up for A/B spec.
Proper endurance events? To a degree.. Yes. You have the race lengths and the time shifts and can have even weather affects but the whole reason behind endurance races is the endurance of a race car lasting a race of X laps/time, as in race reliability. There's no damage system in GT5's enduros!! Last Le Mans24 saw almost half the grid not finishing due to mostly crashing or engine/drivetrain failures. And Kaz should have realized that 1 driver doesn't do the entire event, based on his actual experience at Nurb24!
Top Gear in GT5 is an absolute joke. It's easy to see how no one at PD has ever seen the show. No standing starts. Only the test track itself is implemented. No reasonably priced car. Only 3 events with problematic cars like mentioned up above. This license was massively mismanaged, along with others but I won't go there.
Again, I don't follow. To be honest, I suspect you haven't played FM4 (or any other Forza) at all, or long enough. Not trying to attack, just pointing out the obvious.

 

[Akira AC]

TCS, ABS, AT/MT, driving line, etc are in GT5. And in Forza games especially FM4 you have a range of car classes from slow F to super fast R1s, along with specific car events like old school muscle races to executive car races to even a Fiat 500 event, etc.. I don't follow your point here...

I was explaining how T10 managed the difficulty curve back at FM1, FM2 days, which was the optimal example for its career structure, GT4 didn't allow to disable ABS for example or enable it for classic cars, while FM did to let the player adjust the difficulty setting(that statement works as an explanation of how the difficulty is managed for FM games).

FM3 improved on FM2's career mode. FM4 improved even more on top of FM3 so by default FM4 >>> FM2 in terms of career. And you have access to making the game as casual or as core sim as you like. What's wrong with that?
Want autobrake, rewind, no damage and driving line? You got it.
Want full sim mode, full damage, no driving line, no rewind access? You got it.
Again, I don't follow..

I don't get this, you say is better but is not punctually described, a game can have a casual approach, but the event listing should not be affected by the casual approach, however it seems to be the case with FM's event listing (punctually FM3,FM4).

You start off in F class race events that you race against solely F class cars. Same goes for E, D, C, etc. Classic racing is there, I just did an old school muscle car race event with a grid of just American muscle cars. Again, I don't follow..

Because there is not such thing as "classical endurance racing event" or types of events alike that provide a race with cars of the same age and characteristics, one could argue that classic cars can be used for an specific type of race but there are a limited number of events in which you race with the same type of cars(as the example you show).

In FM4 you can get the best driver/car to be your main competition or any of the other AI drivers because they fight each other. I noticed a battle between 3, 4 and 5 place up until 2nd, who was behind me, overshot a turn sending him to the grass. The leader of that 3-4-5 pack creeped up on me as I was going easier in the race due to the track. Want to see the same car finishing in the same place? Load up GT5 and load up a race where a Toyota 7 or Chaparral 2J is in the grid. Again, I don't follow..

That is not the case of FM because the fastest stock car on the class is put as the main racer to beat, fights for position between 2->4 place and other places along the grid do exist, however the the most powerful car on the class always present a significant advantage against the other AI drivers, notice that this also happens in some of the events of GT but due to the career structure built over the class system this occurs more often.

It's similar in both games. You have a euro dtm race series, you use.. you guessed it, euro dtm cars. Seasonals tend to follow PPI structure which is essentially the same thing. T10 wanted to make a challenge and filter the classes so that A class races A class cars and B class races B class cars, etc. Again, I don't follow...

I don't get this since I was explaining exclusively a difference between GT4 and GT5.

To be honest, I suspect you haven't played FM4 (or any other Forza) at all, or long enough. Not trying to attack, just pointing out the obvious.

Not sure, having play FM games since the first one I can easily identify the problems with its career structure, dismissing my opinion without any prof just demonstrates a clear example of flaws overshadowing. FM games present some flaws with its career mode but none of the have been so broken since FM3's, I clearly explain the areas and the reasons of why FM3 career(also FM4 to an extent) is flawed in comparison to its concept and what its previous games did accomplish.

Getting back to FM flaws defence mode is not going to work as more people now can acknowledged such flaws by playing the events and the career mode on FM4.

 

[cuco33]

I was explaining how T10 managed the difficulty curve back at FM1, FM2 days, which was the optimal example for its career structure, GT4 didn't allow to disable ABS for example or enable it for classic cars, while FM did to let the player adjust the difficulty setting(that statement works as an explanation of how the difficulty is managed for FM games).

One of the biggest griped people had with FM2 was the career structure itself which was revamped for FM3 and many, including myself, thought the way it was in FM3 was quite good and better than FM2. FM4 is just better than FM3 in that respect. In GT5 you can adjust things like ABS and do mods like adding a performance chip for cars not equipped with ABS nor an ECU. You went back to GT4 to make some point you are getting at. There's a TON of events in FM4 that can cater to any and every one. And you have the option to race it as casual as you want or as hardcore as you want.

I don't get this, you say is better but is not punctually described, a game can have a casual approach, but the event listing should not be affected by the casual approach, however it seems to be the case with FM's event listing (punctually FM3,FM4).

I don't understand what you are trying to get. List of events or world tour is casual approach??

Because there is not such thing as "classical endurance racing event" or types of events alike that provide a race with cars of the same age and characteristics, one could argue that classic cars can be used for an specific type of race but there are a limited number of events in which you race with the same type of cars(as the example you show).

There is. Like I mentioned I did an american muscle race just the other day, locked into american muscle cars from a certain era. You want to race the exact same car? There's events for that too, like mentioned Fiat 500 race.

That is not the case of FM because the fastest stock car on the class is put as the main racer to beat, fights for position between 2->4 place and other places along the grid do exist, however the the most powerful car on the class always present a significant advantage against the other AI drivers, notice that this also happens in some of the events of GT but due to the career structure built over the class system this occurs more often.

Don't understand what you're trying to get at. You're implying that the fastest car is going to be the one that gives you the hardest time to beat/pass? Like in GT? Like in real life? What's the point you're getting at? In GT5 there are races that the 2J will always be your #1 competition. I did some races over and over and over again to try and beat out the 2J and he was constantly the #1 AI I had troubles passing.

Not sure, having play FM games since the first one I can easily identify the problems with its career structure, dismissing my opinion without any prof just demonstrates a clear example of flaws overshadowing. FM games present some flaws with its career mode but none of the have been so broken since FM3's, I clearly explain the areas and the reasons of why FM3 career(also FM4 to an extent) is flawed in comparison to its concept and what its previous games did accomplish.

If comparing careers between the latest in GT and Forza games it's easy to see how Forza >>>>>> GT in this aspect. There's plenty of things to do in both games but in GT5 it's all over the place and only thing that is linked is credits and xp (credits to buy cars, xp to unlock events/cars to buy). I gave more than enough proof of this though. The grind, ugghhhh the grind! Being locked out of cars for career series due to them being standard. License events no longer tied to career events. List goes on. Many of these were fixed or fixed to a degree via patches. And that's the thing that some folk don't realize. Not everyone has their PS3 connected to the web so these folks never saw the patches which is sad because it is a much better game post patches and spec2 than it was at launch.

Getting back to FM flaws defence mode is not going to work as more people now can acknowledged such flaws by playing the events and the career mode on FM4.

FM flaws defence mode? Look in the mirror and note your GT bias far outweighs any bias I have for Forza. I still play GT5 to this day, alongside Forza.
But who's acknowledging FM4 career/events list flaws? You're trying to make an issue that doesn't exist. The career in FM4, since you seem to not have played it, starts you off in a very low end, F class, car. As you progress through the World Tour, it cycles events based on the car and level it is at (or could be upgraded/downgraded to). If you swap out to another car, a new set of events are shown in World Tour. If you don't want to do the World Tour at all you can pick any event in the events list. And you get to choose cars you like as the gift cars when leveling up, which if selected appear as part of the World Tour events to play with.

 

[Akira AC]

...If comparing careers between the latest in GT and Forza games it's easy to see how Forza >>>>>> GT in this aspect...

But who's acknowledging FM4 career/events list flaws? You're trying to make an issue that doesn't exist.

Don't understand what you're trying to get at. You're implying that the fastest car is going to be the one that gives you the hardest time to beat/pass? Like in GT? Like in real life? What's the point you're getting at? In GT5 there are races that the 2J will always be your #1 competition. I did some races over and over and over again to try and beat out the 2J and he was constantly the #1 AI I had troubles passing.

I just wanted to point that out, and again, everyone is free to drawn their own conclusions by playing each game.

 

[yakapo]

This is just my opinion but I've always thought the sound (engine and exhaust) was lacking in console racing games. -particularly in the GT series when driving american v8's. I might be the minority but the sound is the most important thing to me (tied with driving physics).

Forza 4 changes everything. I modded a chevelle 454 with a big cam, upgraded exhaust, and weight reduction and it produced the most amazing sound from a video game I've ever heard. I just sat there revving the motor with the brake down and listening to the cam lope at idle. For some reason in past driving games they didn't seem to make use of the subwoofer. Now when you drive a heavily modded muscle car it will make your house shake with the right audio setup.

another (smaller) bonus was the option to turn off the camera shake. The excessive camera shaking in car made me stop playing GT5 once I got to the faster cars.

What I do miss about GT5 is the license tests. Also I feel like GT5 was a lot more challenging. I played through most of GT5 prologue and I was really excited when I finally beat some of the tougher races.

 

[prymet1me]

Im sorry man but the career argument is totally irrelevant, World Tour mode keeps you looking forward to the next race. You get a location ad can choose any car from your garage 90% of the time and get race category that fits. There is no way that GT5 career should even be compared to FM4's career. There are way too many race options in Forza 4 to compare it to A spec mode. The career argument falls apart.

 

[Akira AC]

Its a pretty simple problem to address:

>Go to event list.
>Check "Opponents", for anything that has a "N"class on it.
>Write down the first car on that opponent list.
>Repeat the process for classes from F->R1
>Make a list of those 11 cars.

And then you will have the main opponents for about 35%-45% percent of the career mode, if someone accounted the different events(or races) those will be around 1000, which means that 350-450 races are build upon those cars and remember that the events of World Tour mode and Seasonal events(FM3) are build around the same list of events.

People argue about quantity of events, but I don't see how people dismissed the fact that around 35 events have to be raced against the same cars(and in the same track in some occasions).

Dismissing such kind of grind is also critical for this comparison.

 

[goldiefx]

um call me crazy but isn't the whole point of a race game, is well to race? and is it just me or does m rossi hold a grudge? tonight i gently pushed him out of the way, ok maybe it was firmly lol, the little bugger dumped me in the next turn

 

[blowfishrulez]

I have been playing 4za for one week now and these are my remarks, compared to gt5:

+ superior car selection
+ community is way ahead of gt5
+ tuning/modification is way more complete and very easy to use
+ sound is much better on TV sets/small stereo systems ...

- ... but there is nothing to be gained from having a fully fledged home cinema system at hand. The multichannel mix is so bad, all of my own car noises are coming from the front center. Even when in an MR car, the ENGINE AND EXHAUST sounds are coming from the front center. And yes ... my sound system is calibrated to perfection, as i a enjoy the beautiful DTS Soundmix of gt5 very much.
- IBL is nice, but since environments are hyper realistic, so is the lighting, and that is a bad thing.
- Races are too short
- AI is annoyingly agressive on pro difficulty and apex braking on lower difficulties

Overall, i think Forza is the better Game, whereas GT5 is the better driving simulator. Personally, i can already see the finish line in playing 4za, while GT5's maniac attention to detail keeps me coming back every day and will be doing so for some time to come.