FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[dzidza]

Here is an interesting post, regarding F4 graphics

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/4908842.aspx

It would be great if someone can do the same with GT5!?

 

[Steve23guy]

I've been asked to post my thoughts in this thread instead of making a new one.

So here it goes.

First, let me start off by saying I own both games. Purchased GT5 on launch and purchased Forza 4 yesterday.

I went into both games with an open mind. I have owned/played the following racing tittles on console
Gran Turismo
Gran Turismo 2
Gran Turismo 3 A-spec
Gran Turismo 4
(rented Gran Turismo Prolouge)
Gran Turismo 5
Collin Mcrea rally 2.0
Forza 2
Forza 3 (borrowed)
Forza 4
Need For Speed Shift 1
Need For Speed Shift 2
Need For Speed HP
Dirt 1 and 2
Grid
With that stated please realize I am in no way biased towards a single game, I just play the games and enjoy them for what they are or at least try.

As far as comparing the two racing games, GT5 vs Forza 4, I have to give GT5 the lead still as far as driving and racing goes.
Physics:
In my opinion, compared to GT5, the vehicles in Forza 4 almost seem to float on the track. at no point in the game do I really feel that I am on the road, but just above it, this for me is most prominent while coming into a corner, even at low speeds I get massive under steer from any car. I have yet in Forza to experience over steer even when I tune my car to make it happen. Whilst with GT5 when I come into a corner I feel a connection with the pavement when I brake into a turn, sure, Forza 4 shows more body roll I've noticed when coming into the turn but to me its all flash/looks. I still feel like I am floating into the corner, brakes lock up at the drop of a hat and its off into the grass I go. Some raise an argument saying maybe i just stink at playing the game.. I may not be the best in the world, far from it. but I look at myself as above average. I know they are two Different games with two totally different physics engines, I just feel GT5/PD nailed it better than T10/F4 did. Racing to me is all about mastering the corners, anyone can go straight and fast in a game and even in real life. But coming into a sweeping turn at 30mph while off the brake and the accelerator coming in high attempting to come in towards the middle only to find myself going even more high and into the grass/dirt is just strange to me when I see no reason for the vehicle to be doing so. Speaking of grass and dirt, why is it that Forza still thinks that grass and dirt are rubber magnets and will slow your car down to a near stop from 100mph, is it just the devs team way of stopping corner cutting? I've noticed that some areas act correctly when it comes to grass while some just STOP your vehicle outright almost, it shouldnt take me 10 seconds to get out of gravel/sand 10 feet away from the track with an awd evo. Now onto one more thing with the physics, Drifting. In gt5 its still pretty tough to drift with any car other than a RWD or a drifting tuned AWD car, with Forza 4, it seems that any car off the lot is a drifting machine, be it a FWD compact hatchback or AWD road hugging monster, oh yeah, and no rallys in Forza 4, boooo

AI:
Both games have a their plus and minus here I believe. GT5 having a more robotic AI that sticks to a set path on the course and does not even notice you're in the game or pose any real challenge with you unless you stick with the classes/specs of the other racers. While Forza 4 the AI seems a bit more alive and battles even with itself. On the other hand though, the AI in Forza 4 feels like its on rails and they are driving in tanks. I don't purposely go out of my way and try to hit the other cars, I try as hard as I can to race clean. but accidents/rubbing/collisions happen, and when they do happen in Forza, OH MAN. Brake into a corner early and get rear ended by the AI, you're pretty much doing a 180 and sitting in the dirt while the AI goes on its way like nothing happened, yet at the same time, go into a turn following the AI and brake late and rear end them, the same thing happens, you end up getting dizzy and losing control while the AI still goes on its way jamming to the techno music like nothing happened. not to mention the AI loving to pit maneuver you whenever it has the chance. It just feels like no matter what cars are on the track, they are glued and weigh 10x more than they should.

Customization:
Forza 4 wins in this category hands down. I love sitting in the garage painting my cars and doing all sorts of stuff with them, its fun. Maybe someday PD/GT5 will get the hint and let this level of detail with paints/decals find its way into their product.

Graphics:
Many will argue "well, GT5 may have 1000+ cars, but only 200 are premium and look any good" while this is true, the 200 premiums look better than anything that is in Forza 4, every single detail and every single inch of the car is covered in the premiums. Forza 4 in my opinion is too glossy, every car has a wet shine to it that's over the top, the colors are too bright, not only on the cars but on the track, from the burms, to the tarmac, to the grass to the background grand stands and tents. It just seems more like a cartoon than real life. again, that's just how I see it, everyone see's things they way THEY see them. Now, damage, Forza wins, yes, sure, but one thing that needs to be understood was that PD was not allowed to put damage or show damage in the vehicles in past versions because of vehicle licensing issues, forza was given the go ahead from their first game. I'm going to give PD the benefit of the doubt on this one and say they will get a better damage model in a future game. damage DOES play into realism i think, mechanical damage for sure, if i whack a wall at 60 mph I should know I did for the rest of the race. T10 pretty much has that down for the most part, I say give PD time. I believe they put more time into the physics and dynamic weather engine then worked on adding some damage.
Forgot shadows too, ive noticed some shadow issues in both games to be honest, one main one is GT5 jaggy shadows, we all know this. But in forza one thing ive noticed with shadows is when in cockpit view with head tracking and looking around, if you look at your shadow outside, the trunk and hood are gone and its just the cockpit/cabin portion of the car visible as a shadow.

Online:

I cant really comment on this one yet, I'm still working on my single player with Forza 4 and not really going online, I need to get the handling down before I go on there and give a fair review of the two. The only thing I will say is, The two times I did go online with Forza 4, it took a very long time to refresh and load/connect to lobbys and rooms. I did love Froza 2 online though, So maybe I'll come back and update what I think of online, if people seem to care. haha.
There are of course a lot more things to debate in each category I'm sure, but these are just things that stand out to me the most, and well.. this is already a TLTR post almost.

Overall as far as console racing games go my ratings would have to be: *keep in mind this is based on whats on console, not PC*
Graphics: GT5 9/10 : F4 8/10
Physics: GT5 10/10 :F4 7/10
AI: GT5 7/10 :F4 7/10
Customization GT5 5/10 : F4 10/10
Online GT5 7/10 : F4 TBD

Over all: GT5 9/10 F4 7.5/10 (keep in mind this overall score is based on racing experience, some may argue "but you gave forza 10/10 for customization", sadly, these games are not car painting games, they are racing)

Hope this review/opinion was better than my previous thread. I wrote it in a hurry and was venting.

Take care.
Steve

 

[boons]

Hi Steve23,
what you have written is spot on in my feeling for both games pal... you really describe till very exact and detailed. Thanks for sharing such great reviews and article...and I feel it is not bias since you really played and enjoy both games alot from your listing.

I have both games like you.. i really love GT physics but then the poor environment graphic at times really make me feel bored and plain for the game...except when i race the ring.. everytime it makes me feel great...Recently tried online SPA and don't feel it is same level of fun as the ring too...

Now when i play forza 4... it is exactly the same feeling you described. the car feels a bit floaty and not instant feedback as to road feel when playing GT5...but the intense fun in pasting decal and the consistent good graphic, sense of speed..very very fun and entertaining to watch and play.

You never mention about car sound pal..This is where Forza4 really outshine GT by tons..I really feel hard to accept GT car sound..feel very inaccurate and artificial...spoil the intense mood.. Then on Forza the car sound really wake you up! I really really pray hard one day GT6 can match Forza sound. Thanks again Steve for sharing.

 

[Steve23guy]

Hi Steve23,
what you have written is spot on in my feeling for both games pal... you really describe till very exact and detailed. Thanks for sharing such great reviews and article...and I feel it is not bias since you really played and enjoy both games alot from your listing.

I have both games like you.. i really love GT physics but then the poor environment graphic at times really make me feel bored and plain for the game...except when i race the ring.. everytime it makes me feel great...Recently tried online SPA and don't feel it is same level of fun as the ring too...

Now when i play forza 4... it is exactly the same feeling you described. the car feels a bit floaty and not instant feedback as to road feel when playing GT5...but the intense fun in pasting decal and the consistent good graphic, sense of speed..very very fun and entertaining to watch and play.

You never mention about car sound pal..This is where Forza4 really outshine GT by tons..I really feel hard to accept GT car sound..feel very inaccurate and artificial...spoil the intense mood.. Then on Forza the car sound really wake you up! I really really pray hard one day GT6 can match Forza sound. Thanks again Steve for sharing.

Thanks, you know, I never really thought about sound, In all honesty, I have my own music going and the only sound I take notice in is my tire squeal on turns/traction, other than that I don't pay attention to the level of detail in the engine

 

[PzR Slim]

I've been asked to post my thoughts in this thread instead of making a new one.

snip

I stopped taking your post too seriously when I read the bit about you not experiencing oversteer in FM4. And the bit about not feeling connected to the road. With a ffb wheel the feeling of the front tyres on the road is one of the areas that FM4 excels compared to GT5. The feeling from the front tyres through a ffb wheel in GT5 is just numb. This is particularly noticeable in fwd cars where the front tyres are steering, braking and accelerating. Its so much easier to feel what your front tyres are doing in FM4 compared to GT5. And most complain that FM has too much grip so if all you are experiencing is understeer, your either coming in to fast, got too much steering lock on or you don't understand cars as much as you think you do.

 

[Scaff]

Physics:
In my opinion, compared to GT5, the vehicles in Forza 4 almost seem to float on the track. at no point in the game do I really feel that I am on the road, but just above it, this for me is most prominent while coming into a corner, even at low speeds I get massive under steer from any car. I have yet in Forza to experience over steer even when I tune my car to make it happen. Whilst with GT5 when I come into a corner I feel a connection with the pavement when I brake into a turn, sure, Forza 4 shows more body roll I've noticed when coming into the turn but to me its all flash/looks. I still feel like I am floating into the corner, brakes lock up at the drop of a hat and its off into the grass I go. Some raise an argument saying maybe i just stink at playing the game.. I may not be the best in the world, far from it. but I look at myself as above average. I know they are two Different games with two totally different physics engines, I just feel GT5/PD nailed it better than T10/F4 did. Racing to me is all about mastering the corners, anyone can go straight and fast in a game and even in real life. But coming into a sweeping turn at 30mph while off the brake and the accelerator coming in high attempting to come in towards the middle only to find myself going even more high and into the grass/dirt is just strange to me when I see no reason for the vehicle to be doing so. Speaking of grass and dirt, why is it that Forza still thinks that grass and dirt are rubber magnets and will slow your car down to a near stop from 100mph, is it just the devs team way of stopping corner cutting? I've noticed that some areas act correctly when it comes to grass while some just STOP your vehicle outright almost, it shouldnt take me 10 seconds to get out of gravel/sand 10 feet away from the track with an awd evo. Now onto one more thing with the physics, Drifting. In gt5 its still pretty tough to drift with any car other than a RWD or a drifting tuned AWD car, with Forza 4, it seems that any car off the lot is a drifting machine, be it a FWD compact hatchback or AWD road hugging monster, oh yeah, and no rallys in Forza 4, boooo

While I don't disagree with a lot of what you have said in other areas (apart from damage which GT5 is incredibly inconsistent with), I do disagree with you assessment of the physics.

Now off the bat I want to stress that neither title is perfect, but a number of your observations don't gel with my own experience in FM4.

I actually get a much better idea of contact with the road and also the mass a car has and how its moving in FM4 than I do with GT5, particularly in regard to how tyres are loading and unloading.

You also seem to contradict yourself in regard to under and oversteer...

I have yet in Forza to experience over steer even when I tune my car to make it happen

with Forza 4, it seems that any car off the lot is a drifting machine, be it a FWD compact hatchback or AWD road hugging monster

...so I'm not quite sure what you are saying.

In regard to grass, yes that is a way to stop corner cutting and while not always realistic it does help in on-line racing. It regard to gravel traps however, having to leave them at slow speeds (while a forced game mechanic) does make you approach them as you should in the real world. If you have ever been stuck in 'kitty litter' in the real world you have to be very gentle with the throttle (and as a result run slow) or risk burying the driven wheels and getting stuck (and that's regardless of a car being AWD).

For me (and based against my real world experience) FM4 nudges ahead of GT5 in regard to physics in a number of key areas, in particular suspension and tyre modelling.


Regards

Scaff

 

[Ooze27]

Interesting part about the physics, although the game doesn't display that behaviour at all.The last line about the rally was confusing given the fact that rally in GT5 is simply awful. The cars understeer when they should understeer and oversteer when they should oversteer and it is the correct behaviour.Confused about the "flash" body roll, seems just a poor excuse to put once again GT5 in a pedestal, given the fact you gave it a 10/10 in the physics department.In F3 people said it didn't have body roll, not F4 has body roll, suddenly is just a "flash" thing. But i read it all and i respect your opinion.

 

[GTForzafan]

The main problem, it's few people can comment on the two games, without showing their preferences, that's why so many arguments and comments are filled with inconsistencies and contradictions, mainly because the need to be objective is very difficult....
Look at the physics issue....
Look at the poor excuse, about the rally absence, does anyone really thinks that the rally mode in GT5 is something to brag about ?
"With that stated please realize I am in no way biased towards a single game", why use these sentences, if your going the put every time you can one Game, greatly above another....
The sound department, it's the most obvious absence.... on your comments....
And the Gt5 damage excuse....
Give me a break, do you trully think that was a restriction made by the manufacturers.. ?
Kaz didn't care for damage at all, it only included it because of the request of fans....
If your going to use poor excuses, I could bring the longer development time for Gt5.... in favour of Turn10!
But that would be a poor excuse, and leads to nothing but bias analysis...

I'm not saying, you don't have the right to have an opinion, but an opinion many times, has the preference attached to it.... that's why you tried to pass your experience with two games, as being the most objective... but it trully shows otherwise....

It's the same speech, the doctors tell us...
"I can assure you won't feel a thing"

 

[Vaxxtx]

PD was not allowed to put damage or show damage in the vehicles in past versions because of vehicle licensing issues, forza was given the go ahead from their first game.


Overall as far as console racing games go my ratings would have to be: *keep in mind this is based on whats on console, not PC*
Graphics: GT5 9/10 : F4 8/10
Physics: GT5 10/10 :F4 7/10
AI: GT5 7/10 :F4 7/10
Customization GT5 5/10 : F4 10/10
Online GT5 7/10 : F4 TBD

Ok, I wont go into the physics as other people have already mentioned why your comparision does not make sense.

I will ask where did you get information that PD was not allowed to use damage in past games? I heard this alot and never read anywhere anything about a license issue with damage. Also, what does that have to do with PD not implementing a decent damage model into GT5?

And finally, saying AI is 7/10 in GT5 and FM4 is beyond silly. Never seen AI more on rails and lifeless than in GT5. They are rolling chicanes, nothing more. FM4 AI isnt the best around, but its decent, and actually can put up a decent fight.

Your post is very biased. Just from the wording I can tell you are a GT5 fan. Not a bad thing, its your opinion, but at least dont act like you are not.

 

[Brend]

Overall, i think Forza is the better Game, whereas GT5 is the better driving simulator. Personally, i can already see the finish line in playing 4za, while GT5's maniac attention to detail keeps me coming back every day and will be doing so for some time to come.

Sums it up. 👍

 

[GTForzafan]

Vaxxtx, this sentence "With that stated please realize I am in no way biased towards a single game, I just play the games and enjoy them for what they are or at least try."
Why the need to say this ?

blowsfishrulez...
GT5 maniac attention to detail ? In which matter ? The tuning ? The premium/ standard differences... not only in graphis but also in customization ?
To detail of "some tracks" ?
The attention to detail in some areas, is perfect.... but that's not the whole game. It's like someone already said, GT5 it's a game with oppposites, details to the maximum, and the lack of details...

"while my GT5's preference keeps me coming back every day and will be doing so for some time to come."

Why this is hard to post ?

 

[badeddy]

Here is my opinion comparing both games. First I would like the address the Nurburgring Nord argument. In FM3 my struggle with this track in particular was how they designed it along with the perception of speed within the game made the experience dull compared to gt5. I don't think that the problem was that the track was too wide but rather they made a narrow track and a wider than normal run off area on the sides of the track. This also affected how you view the track when driving because it gives you greater distance to see and so the corners aren't blind and you didn't get the seat of the pants experience and challenge you got from gt5s version. The other thing that helps Gt5 is there are more trees and background foliage so it helps aid this. With Forza 4 IMO this has been somewhat remedied because of the effect of speed being increased in the game. The track itself is just as narrow if not more so in this version and i really like how they added so much in the background. My only gripe with it is that the run off areas are still to wide in some parts of the track. Now that that's out of the way here is my comparison. on a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being best.
gt5 vs forza 4

1. Graphics:Gt5 gets a 9 forza 4 gets a 9.5. Honestly the deciding factor here is twofold some of gt5s tracks look poorly done to me. They seem to have spent more time on the nurburgring than any other track. Compare the top gear test track and look at the background buildings etc. While Gt5s track looks as good the backgrounds do not IMO. The second thing that gives Forza 4 the edge here IMO is that it seems to be more polished in every aspect but especially in the graphics dept.

2. Sound: Gt5 gets a 7 while Forza 4 IMO gets a 10. This category plays a huge part of teh overall experience of the game. Anyone who has ever visited a race track understands that sound is part of what makes motorsports so great. With Gt5 if you mod your car with the totally customizable transmission it makes every car sound as if it's supercharged while the engine sounds are already OK at best. Some cars sound like weed wackers to me. Tire squeel isn't that convincing to me as well. Forza 4 on the other hand nails the sounds and actually ups the bar with forza 4. The engine sounds are phenomenal, tire squeel is great and even the point at which the breaks lock up or you are at the edge of grip has the tire sounds perfect.

3. Tuning: GT5 gets an 8 while Forza4 gets a 10. This is really where Gt5 has me at a loss. The game is entitled the real race/driving simulator however there are no brake upgrades, Tires are limited in that you cannot increase width or diameter nor is their an option that lets you tune tire pressure, there are no engine or drive train swaps, Aero kits are limited and some tuning options are just plain generic ie engine mods include stage 1-3 and an ecu upgrade only. Forza 4 on the other hand has the nail on the head with a plethora of options for all categories. If you are going to advertise as the real race/ driving simulator please realize that the 3 most important areas of this in real life are BRAKES, TIRES, AND AERO but again this is just my opinion.

4. Painting: This category IMO is a no brainer. GT5 gets a 2 here while forza 4 gets a 10. First GT5 doesn't have a livery editor this should come in some form or another as standard on any racer even if you have preselected liveries for the cars. Next in GT5 why should I have to earn car colors to paint other cars with? If I go to an auto dealer they normally have several factory colors or i can go to a paint shop and pay for whatever colors i want. At the least GT5 should have done this. Forza 4 on the other hand has an incredible livery editor of which i have seen some of the most beautiful paint jobs and replicas made of real cars and in some instances they look better than the real cars. Also with Forza 4 you can now adjust the tints hues etc of any color you pick in the advanced options.

5. Physics: There was a day when GT5s physics were better than forzas but this day has passed. Both games are a tie in this category for me and get a 10. To me you can drive either of these games and be extremely happy with the physics model presented

6. Tracks: Both games have tracks that the other does not and so it's close in this category i have to give my vote to forza because all of their tracks look polished. So my vote here is GT5 gets a 9 vs Forza 4 getting a 9.5. Both games also have the ability to up the track count with dlc so this is why it is close.

7. Weather and types of racing: GT5 shines here with rally, carting and dynamic weather changes as well as night racing so i give it a 10 here and Forza a 8 because forza does have options for races like the auto soccer, tag virus etc and in FM4 although we didn't get weather changes we did get various times of day. We are still lacking a rally option as well.

8. Online community, perks/ contests: The final category i put in a lump sum because it's all tied in. Gt5 gets a 5 in this category whereas Forza gets a 10. I think the problem with PD and Kaz is that he spends more time doing GT academy and being in the lime light than developing GT5 the reason i bring that up is because it is considered one of the perks and selling points of GT5 ie doing the time trials for gt academy quals in real life. You can also take a look at gt4 which was a much more polished game and was developed when there was no GT academy. GT TV was a decent idea but realistically if i want to watch real car videos I will go to youtube or buy the DVDs on my own. The last thing i want to do when playing a racing game is stop to watch car movies. Now with Forza 4 dropping we get GT5 2.0 with a better intro ( uhhhhh he should have spent the time and efforts putting more into the game to make it look like the intro than making another intro), Dlc coming but i doubt that it will be on the scale of Forza 4 with members getting 10 cars a month and more than likely extra tracks. This also brings me to another little detail Gt5 boasted about over 1000 cars but again only 200 were premium with the rest being ports from older gt titles with sub par graphics and no dash view. ( the new dash views in black shadows are horrible and imo a weak attempt at pacifying those who were disappointed by the lack of this option). I always thought that if Gt 5 had more online options and community that they should have done just what Forza is doing. Release a polished game with the 200 or so premium cars and then each month add more premium cars to up the count. Forza has it in my vote again with this category with unicorn cars, car packs dlc, track pack dlc, various types of racing online, Forza 4 brings back the ability to create public and private rooms and even if you are just wanting to hang out and be silly they have auto soccer, tag, virus etc. Also with auction house, car clubs ( which is my favorite perk), storefronts, community contest etc. The partnering up with top gear and auto vista with Jeremy Clarkson giving commentary is pure genius IMO. Forza wins in this category hands down.

These 8 categories are my opinion and score as to which game is better in it's category and why. It is my opinion that Forza 4 trumps GT5 in most areas and is overall a better and more polished product. Also considering that it took PD 6 years to release gt5 and what we got was a lot of empty promises imo vs the shorter time of turn 10 and we got exactly what they said we would my vote goes to Forza 4. the final total scores are.

GT5=7.5 vs Forza 4= 9.6 the scores were gotten by adding up all categories and dividing by 8.

this^^^^^

 

[Nigo]

I'm going to give PD the benefit of the doubt on this one and say they will get a better damage model in a future game. damage DOES play into realism i think, mechanical damage for sure, if i whack a wall at 60 mph I should know I did for the rest of the race. T10 pretty much has that down for the most part, I say give PD time

TIME ?
the hell with damages, in F2 in you have a bad collision you loose control of the car and you lose the race. It's a matter of gameplay, I don't think it has anything to do with technical reasons or licences
even T10 has been turning back a lot, collisions are way "nicer" in F4 that they used to be in F2

about graphics, I'd say Forza 4 is beautiful all the time, while GT5 could be extremely pretty OR ugly. Too many tracks and cars straight out of GT4
I think for the 2 last years the best looking racing game was Shift 1 (to be fair, it's not running at 60 FPS, but still), and now it's Forza 4

 

[PzR Slim]

this^^^^^

I think your marks for FM are a little high in some areas and your 10 for physics for both games is defo too high. And I'd also say GT edges it in terms of tracks, especially with the recent inclusion of Spa.

 

[badeddy]

I think your marks for FM are a little high in some areas and your 10 for physics for both games is defo too high. And I'd also say GT edges it in terms of tracks, especially with the recent inclusion of Spa.

I disagree because in forza they have DLC tracks and even GTs dlc has issues even before it's released. Plus it really comes down to which tracks you like. Both games have good tracks but i have to go with Forza as there is much better online support, dlc etc. The physics i went high on because as console games go these two games are the best that's offered. I know that many compare them to pc sims etc but I don't. I think they are very close but in both games i think the physics are exceptional. I am learning how to drive in forza with all assists off and it is a blast especially with RWD setups.

 

[PzR Slim]

I disagree because in forza they have DLC tracks and even GTs dlc has issues even before it's released. Plus it really comes down to which tracks you like. Both games have good tracks but i have to go with Forza as there is much better online support, dlc etc. The physics i went high on because as console games go these two games are the best that's offered. I know that many compare them to pc sims etc but I don't. I think they are very close but in both games i think the physics are exceptional. I am learning how to drive in forza with all assists off and it is a blast especially with RWD setups.

What about Race Pro or Ferrari Challenge/Supercar Challenge?

 

[badeddy]

What about Race Pro or Ferrari Challenge/Supercar Challenge?

I really liked racepro but i hated the fact that there is no clutch. Ferrari challenge was good as well but im just running the field with Ferraris also F1 2010-2011 has great physics but again it's just F1 and it should have good physics if you are racing those cars. So while the physics in those games are good i think the games are a bit limited by being stuck with one type of car or again as in race pros case no clutch.

 

[Vaxxtx]

I think your marks for FM are a little high in some areas and your 10 for physics for both games is defo too high. And I'd also say GT edges it in terms of tracks, especially with the recent inclusion of Spa.

I dont agree. GT5 track list is decent but FM4's tracks are much better. More real world tracks always gt top vote in my book. Still both are far behind Shift2's tracks.

 

[badeddy]

I dont agree. GT5 track list is decent but FM4's tracks are much better. More real world tracks always gt top vote in my book. Still both are far behind Shift2's tracks.

I agree with you 100% plus how long has gt5 been out and they just now decided to do dlc. With Forza we will get DLC every month and I am sure somewhere in some of it will be some tracks.

 

[Steve23guy]

Ok, I wont go into the physics as other people have already mentioned why your comparision does not make sense.

I will ask where did you get information that PD was not allowed to use damage in past games? I heard this alot and never read anywhere anything about a license issue with damage. Also, what does that have to do with PD not implementing a decent damage model into GT5?

And finally, saying AI is 7/10 in GT5 and FM4 is beyond silly. Never seen AI more on rails and lifeless than in GT5. They are rolling chicanes, nothing more. FM4 AI isnt the best around, but its decent, and actually can put up a decent fight.

Your post is very biased. Just from the wording I can tell you are a GT5 fan. Not a bad thing, its your opinion, but at least dont act like you are not.

My score for AI is based on whats available that I've played on console, not in terms of what it could be. And i mentioned that they are lifeless (robotic). By rails I mean they are immovable objects, GT5's AI is stuck on a set path and does not care if you're in it. I gave them both an even score based on their flaws since each has different ones. As far as putting up a decent fight is concerned, I prefer realism over that any day. Last night for example. Racing in a pretty much stock 2003 M3, did a BMW race World Tour. all of our PP scores were equal give or take a number. yet the one M3 that was in the lead was able to just pull away from the pack like he had a rocket up his tail pipe.
I took the SAME pretty much stock M3 to the "events" and had several cars that would destroy it on the track "ford gt500, a few ferarri's and some other ones, the lead AI gave me a lil bit of a fight to pass, but once I did, it was over,I won the race by over 20 seconds with all assists off and difficulty set as the same....

I should have noted that I've always used a controller for my games, which may add to my frustration, but it does not effect anything considering the controller is used on both games. I cannot comment on FFB steering wheels and how they feel since I've never owned one.

How is my review biased because of my wording? It was a comparison, I could have flipped the titles around and it would not have made a difference, with wording like "while forza" or "while GT5" . Heck, I'm still playing F4 as we speak getting the hang of it still.

 

[Steve23guy]

I agree with you 100% plus how long has gt5 been out and they just now decided to do dlc. With Forza we will get DLC every month and I am sure somewhere in some of it will be some tracks.

T10 studios.. location USA.

PD studios... location JAPAN.


USA: No tsunami or earthquake.

Japan: tsunami and earthquake.

 

[McLaren]

T10 studios.. location USA.

PD studios... location JAPAN.

USA: No tsunami or earthquake.

Japan: tsunami and earthquake.

It was a devastating event, but I highly doubt for even a minute the current DLC content released was affected in any way by that earthquake.

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

...
I should have noted that I've always used a controller for my games, which may add to my frustration, but it does not effect anything considering the controller is used on both games. I cannot comment on FFB steering wheels and how they feel since I've never owned one.
...

That is exactly what I was going to ask...what type of controller were you using. And I see now that you were not using a wheel for either.
I don't think you can get a good feel for a "racing sim" with a controller. Yes, you can "compare" one to the other but you lose so much of what makes a racing sim - well, a sim? A controller just reduces a racing sim to more of an arcade game.
As far as your attempt to give an unbiased review, that is almost impossible. I too have raced many on the PC, PS3, and Xbox but that does not make my "opinion" a definitive answer to what every virtual racing enthusiast is looking for.
I don't "think" I am bias but I enjoy FM4 much more that GT5 but this statement will convince no one (I use a Fanatec CSR and Elite pedals on BOTH). The sum of all the parts, not any one feature, makes FM4 much more complete and up-to-date. Even if physics, car and track selection, graphics, and career modes were comparable (IMHO Forza 4 still better in areas) the menu system (so irritating!), lack of damage, lack of livery editor, and terrible car and crash sounds just make GT5 hard to play (for me!).

 

[badeddy]

It was a devastating event, but I highly doubt for even a minute the current DLC content released was affected in any way by that earthquake.

I agree 100% the sooner we stop making excuses for reality the sooner we will get a better product. I suppose the Tsunami and earthquake is also to blame for a lack of brake upgrade, tire tuning, sub par sound, a sub par clutch and all the many other issues that plague the game. I mean seriously it's getting ridiculous at what people are coming up with to support a sinking ship.

 

[azrael1965]

I agree 100% the sooner we stop making excuses for reality the sooner we will get a better product. I suppose the Tsunami and earthquake is also to blame for a lack of brake upgrade, tire tuning, sub par sound, a sub par clutch and all the many other issues that plague the game. I mean seriously it's getting ridiculous at what people are coming up with to support a sinking ship.

Which sinking ship? Sure i play Forza 4 now, but as someone else said i can already see the finishing line as well. Then it's back to GT5 and my beloved Nordschleife.

 

[Bogie 19th]

T10 studios.. location USA.

PD studios... location JAPAN.


USA: No tsunami or earthquake.

Japan: tsunami and earthquake.

Sad event, but not related to PD being late to give us consumers content.

That said, now that GT5 has been brushed under the rug by FM4, we all await GT6 with hopes for improvements.

 

[JDMKING13]

Beside the AI dodging the F40 this is a example why I love GT5 sound as a whole, the way the cars sound when passing the F40 sound so good in my opinion and different when in cockpit view. While FM4 did a way better job then 3, it still need some work the music didn't help either. 👍

Edit another cool thing is I don't have spa however I can still race on the track, and when the host is gone I am the new host. 👍

 

[Bogie 19th]

It's things like this when I play GT5 make me wonder if anyone at PD is actually testing or playing the game.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Beside the AI dodging the F40 this is a example why I love GT5 sound as a whole, the way the cars sound when passing the F40 sound so good in my opinion and different when in cockpit view. While FM4 did a way better job then 3, it still need some work the music didn't help either. 👍

You seriously think the sound is good in GT5? . Man sometimes I can see some points in GT5 favor, but when somebody says the the sound is "so good" , you just crossed into the imagination zone.

And are we really going to start posting those silly videos of AI? I mean really? Those have de-bunked on both sides of the fence. Stop grasping at straws man.

 

[Bogie 19th]

The sound in GT5 is horrible. Probably the worst sounds I have heard in a racing game this generation.