FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

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Da-Bomber
For me GT5 has its moments like no other. The first time Le Mans went into night during the race, I look up and see fireworks was one of coolest things I have ever seen in a racing game. I have not had that moment with Forza yet but I do hope to. Maybe that's what people mean with GT5 having a soul?
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Yeah, for me it was the transition to night on Nordschleife. Just INCREDIBLE how the sun sets behind the hills, how the instrumentation panel lights up etc. GT5 definately has soul imo. It's not something that can be measured scientifically- it's just there. It has moments that really do take your breath away. Sure, it has its faults but then so does every game.
 
And driving the F1 on Suzuka or Monza is also fantastic. I am looking forward to Spa so much! Including F1 cars is definitely a big Bonus. After all they are they fastest track cars on this planet. I hate the X2010 although. GT shouldn't waste time on fantasy cars.
 
Ryan81
Yeah, for me it was the transition to night on Nordschleife. Just INCREDIBLE how the sun sets behind the hills, how the instrumentation panel lights up etc. GT5 definately has soul imo. It's not something that can be measured scientifically- it's just there. It has moments that really do take your breath away. Sure, it has its faults but then so does every game.
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Of course it can't be measured because it doesn't have it...

Compared to Forza, Shift or any other simcade, no game is more clinical than GT.
 
FyreandIce
Of course it can't be measured because it doesn't have it...

Compared to Forza, Shift or any other simcade, no game is more clinical than GT.
Click to expand...
Sorry, but that is just the same kind of low level bashing FM4 gets by people who never played it before. Regarding the Nordschleife (and Ryan81 was referring to it) GT5 has 100x more soul than FM4. It has the correct layout, the 24h version, night& weather, so how can it be more clinical? How can you feel the soul of the track if Turn 10 didn't even try to make it accurate. I am pretty sure they can do it, because they did pretty well with other tracks, they just didn't care. This is what i would call missing soul.
To prove that the GT5 Nordschleife is not soulless just go to the GT5 Section on GTplanet. Count the number of ring threats there, enjoy the stories of peoples who have done the endurance races and share their experiences.
 
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azrael1965 gt5 has more soul in the accuracy of the real tracks....
But forza 4 has more soul in the car selection ....
The day and night cycles are very good....
The weather, specialy the rain, I choose the PGR series rain!
The devs already explained, why they chose that way! You don't agree, ok it's your opinion...
But the soul of any game, isn't only one feauture or one particular setting...
I could go with the analogy, of GT5 is souless with the standard cars, but that would be too low....
I Think that the accuracy of some tracks, isn't such a big deal....
Because you can have the Correct track, the graphics, the day and night cycle and even the weather, BUT What about the SOUND ?
I am pretty sure they can do it "better", they just didn't care.
See what i did here ?
The two games have shortcomings, but i was expecting a lot more of the GT series...
 
To get it right, I never claimed that FM4 is soulless. It's just nonsense that GT5 is. Both are fantastic games and which is superior is just a matter of personal preference.
 
Forza wants to give a wider experience, even now the autovista kinect experiences, they want to grab car enthusiasts, not only sim-like lovers...
GT lives with the fanbase that it conquered on the PS2 era, stuck in the past.
Sure it has brilliant moments, but if it wasn't the legacy, it would have been heavily criticized....
Many people bought PS3's waiting for this Game...
I trully believe that if GT5 wasn't exclusive, the backlash would be huge.....
People were desperate to have the game, when it finally launched the many shortcomings and cons, were neglected....
If was another game, without being a well established franchise, to offer a game like GT5 is, even today, with constant and huge updates, i think that wouldn't have been so peaceful....
 
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GTForzafan
Sure it has brilliant moments, but if it wasn't the legacy, it would have been heavily criticized....
.
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And it was heavily criticed and it still is. But so what? It is a one year old game and still there are 1000 people on a fansite like Gtplanet discussing it, right at this moment. In fast moving times like now that is a amazing feat for a racing game and no game in any category could achieve this if it was truly soulless.
 
I know this thread was a lost cause a long time ago but I think people are totally getting this debate wrong. This is not about one game being great and the other being terrible. It's about discussing the features of two great games and having a preference. Ultimately it's about each person which is the best overall game. People get far too hung up discussing the individual details of each and using one particular thing that one game does better and claiming that as the reason their preference wins. You have to look at each game as a whole and base your decision on that. Both games win, one just wins a bit more.
 
Azrael aren't you forgetting something ? This is the 5th game of the GT series, many people invested on Prologue, being a "glorified demo"...
Do you really expect, anything else....?
I'm only saying, that the success of GT series was built in the PS2 era, now the name alone sells....
And PD knows that....
 
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MildAshers
I may have to play around on both games later and try to get some fair comparison shots from both.
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I have done this now, tried to make it as fair as possible, same cars, same colours, same tracks, same lighting conditions (where possible) and same angles (where possible). Left all photomode settings on default in both games.

Now I just need to wait for my dad to get home with all my USB drives to get at the GT5 photos :grumpy:
 
GTForzafan
Forza wants to give a wider experience, even now the autovista kinect experiences, they want to grab car enthusiasts, not only sim-like lovers...
GT lives with the fanbase that it conquered on the PS2 era, stuck in the past.
Sure it has brilliant moments, but if it wasn't the legacy, it would have been heavily criticized....
Many people bought PS3's waiting for this Game...
I trully believe that if GT5 wasn't exclusive, the backlash would be huge.....
People were desperate to have the game, when it finally launched the many shortcomings and cons, were neglected....
If was another game, without being a well established franchise, to offer a game like GT5 is, even today, with constant and huge updates, i think that wouldn't have been so peaceful....
Click to expand...

This is were you are wrong kind sir, it's exactly because of it's "Legacy" that it was criticized. GT5 was hanged with a noose when it came out, in recent months though that noose has been loosened.

GTForzafan
Azrael aren't you forgetting something ? This is the 5th game of the GT series, many people invested on Prologue, being a "glorified demo"...
Do you really expect, anything else....?
I'm only saying, that the success of GT series was built in the PS2 era, now the name alone sells....
And PD knows that....
Click to expand...

As always you are wrong, the success was built in the PS1 era, it then carried over to PS2 and subsequently PS3. If name alone is what sells GT i cant understand why it has sold past 5 million twice this generation. Infact last we heard GT sold 6.3 million in it's first month even though the so-called "Glorified Demo" sold 5 million. Success like that cannot be repeated if people are just buying because of name-brand, certainly not with the PS3's install base.
 
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GTForzafan
Mild ashers, i really want to see that....
Do you narrowed the cars to the premiums available on GT5... ?
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Yes I made sure to only use premiums for the fairest comparison, Aston DB9, BMW Z4 coupe and the Lexus SC430 GT500 Petronas are the cars I used. Tsukuba, Indianapolis and Suzuka were the tracks.

I did make an error with Suzuka, I had it in my head while on FM4 that GT5 Suzuka had sunset, dont know why. So I changed that from a track graphics comparison to a lighting comparison using sunset conditions at Le Mans for the GT5 shots.
 
The franchise started with the PSX era, but established itself on the Ps2 ERA...
The HUGE success was built in the PS2 ( Sony Golden Era) with GT3-aspec mostly and GT4 ( for me the best of the series)
Daverytimes, why bring sales to the discussion ? Even you, recognize that GT-Prologue was a beast, and it was in fact a "Demo".
Did i expect to see other numbers, on a well established franchise ? Not really .... Gt franchise has a large fanbase...
Now, about being criticized, the standard car issue and the cockpits, even with the update, if it was another game.... do you doubt that the reactions would be very different ?
I didn't say, i wasn't criticized, I've said that if it was another game, the criticism would be huge!
Don't fool yourself, name-brand is very important....
Look at the numbers :
Gran Turismo” (1997): 10,85 milhões
- “Gran Turismo 2” (1999): 9,37 milhões
- “Gran Turismo 3 A-spec” (2001): 14,89 milhões
- “Gran Turismo Concept Series” (2002): 1,56 milhão
- “Gran Turismo 4 Prologue” (2003) 1,35 milhão
- “Gran Turismo 4” (2004): 10,98 milhões
- “Gran Turismo 5 Prologue” (2007): 4,65 milhões
- “Gran Turismo PSP” (2009): 1,8 milhão

I concede that isn't only the name, but it's very important, in fact, the game has that "cover" to hide it's shortcomings.... the name alone
The defensive way, of fans like you, adopt when discussing the game, shows really that...

To me it's a great game, that tried to play to many "instruments" ...
That shows with the rally, the weather, the day and night cycles
Do you think that Kaz wanted to launch the game ? Or was it pressured to do it, by Sony.... ?
The game, shows that with the consistency that it lacks....
 
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It makes me wonder if GT5 was named "Go Go Race Super Fun!" and it was made with a vision by a guy named Donald, how many people would have purchased it, and how many people would still be calling it great?

I am guessing not as many. But because people think Kaz is something beyond human (no idea why), and because its called GT, that alone was enough to justify a purchase without thinking about it.
 
Sales should not be a factor into how good the game actually is.

First 3 GT games, 35 million sales (roughly)
First 3 FM games, 10.0 million (roughly)

Forza 3 was not exactly far behind GT5, 6.55 for GT5 4.89 for FM3.
 
Vaxxtx, that's the problem....
To some Kazunori is a God.... and GT a masterpiece....
Even with simple discussions, it's easier to say metacritic sucks, the reviewers are biased, that it's Microsoft evil Corporation, than to accept that maybe GT5 is a flawed game and incomplete. Or play the sales factor, because everything that sells very well, most be a gem... right ( Wii sports):P

Mildashers that's rough numbers, and knowing that 360 is a plataform choice for shooters, that's good numbers against the Huge franchise that is GT!
 
GTForzafan
The franchise started with the PSX era, but established itself on the Ps2 ERA...
The HUGE success was built in the PS2 ( Sony Golden Era) with GT3-aspec mostly and GT4 ( for me the best of the series)
Daverytimes, why bring sales to the discussion ? Even you, recognize that GT-Prologue was a beast, and it was in fact a "Demo".
Did i expect to see other numbers, on a well established franchise ? Not really .... Gt franchise has a large fanbase...
Now, about being criticized, the standard car issue and the cockpits, even with the update, if it was another game.... do you doubt that the reactions would be very different ?
I didn't say, i wasn't criticized, I've said that if it was another game, the criticism would be huge!
Don't fool yourself, name-brand is very important....
Look at the numbers :
Gran Turismo” (1997): 10,85 milhões
- “Gran Turismo 2” (1999): 9,37 milhões
- “Gran Turismo 3 A-spec” (2001): 14,89 milhões
- “Gran Turismo Concept Series” (2002): 1,56 milhão
- “Gran Turismo 4 Prologue” (2003) 1,35 milhão
- “Gran Turismo 4” (2004): 10,98 milhões
- “Gran Turismo 5 Prologue” (2007): 4,65 milhões
- “Gran Turismo PSP” (2009): 1,8 milhão

I concede that isn't only the name, but it's very important, in fact, the game has that "cover" to hide it's shortcomings.... the name alone
The defensive way, of fans like you, adopt when discussing the game, shows really that...

To me it's a great game, that tried to play to many "instruments" ...
That shows with the rally, the weather, the day and night cycles
Do you think that Kaz wanted to launch the game ? Or was it pressured to do it, by Sony.... ?
The game, shows that with the consistency that it lacks....
Click to expand...

Wouldn't be you if you didn't find a way to indirectly call me a fanboy. This was your statement
GTForzafan
Azrael aren't you forgetting something ? This is the 5th game of the GT series, many people invested on Prologue, being a "glorified demo"...
Do you really expect, anything else....?
I'm only saying, that the success of GT series was built in the PS2 era, now the name alone sells....
And PD knows that....
Click to expand...
You specifically said that the "name alone sells" and now you 'Concede"? all the while accusing me of bringing sales into the discussion when you yourself said "The success of GT". What do you think success entails in this business, if success isn't sales then i wonder what else it is.

GTForzafan
Vaxxtx, that's the problem....
To some Kazunori is a God.... and GT a masterpiece....
Even with simple discussions, it's easier to say metacritic sucks, the reviewers are biased, that it's Microsoft evil Corporation, than to accept that maybe GT5 is a flawed game and incomplete. Or play the sales factor, because everything that sells very well, most be a gem... right ( Wii sports):P
Click to expand...

As has been mentioned a trillion times, Everyone in this site accepts that GT5 is a flawed game. No other site gave as much criticism as this site, i will cut you some slack because you are new.

Edit: And yes to some he is god, the same way Dan is god to some, and the same way Steve jobs was god to some. Unfortunately that's life, people will kindly kiss the buttocks of people they are in love with.
 
Oh man, GT3 A Spec, I remember buying that PS2 bundle, I used to LOVE that game! I almost bought ANOTHER PS2 to play GT4 until the First Forza came along and won me over with the car customization and the wide selection of cars and not just a sheer number of same type of cars.
 
Daverytimes
Wouldn't be you if you didn't find a way to indirectly call me a fanboy. This was your statement
Click to expand...

Did you forget a member of staff telling you this?

Sphinx
Play nicely please.
Click to expand...

Because I didn't and the staff do not take kindly to being ignored, that also goes for the first post of this thread which I strongly suggest you read again.


Daverytimes
No other site gave as much criticism as this site, i will cut you some slack because you are new.
Click to expand...
You don't get to cut anyone any slack and I for one have had enough of your belief that you speak for the site, that is not the case and the constant flame-bait and unwillingness to take on board the staffs requirements has just earned you a two day time out. In particular I find this a strange thing to say given that the member has been a member here for longer than you have.

Scaff
 
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GTForzafan
Azrael aren't you forgetting something ? This is the 5th game of the GT series, many people invested on Prologue, being a "glorified demo"...
Do you really expect, anything else....?
I'm only saying, that the success of GT series was built in the PS2 era, now the name alone sells....
And PD knows that....
Click to expand...

Actually the success of the GT series was built on the PS1 with the 1st GT game, not PS2 era. The name was set in stone as a premier title from as far back as the first release.

I saw you mentioned units sold in a later post. 10million in PS1 era was huge back then. Still is today but GT became popular from being the only game like it and being quite good. It continued on to other versions. Forza in my eyes was the first real franchise that competed directly with the GT franchise. No attempt from Codemasters or EA or whomever were able to compete to any level that GT was, until now with Forza.


With regards to reviews I don't hold it as the end all be all. I know some reviewers will have bias, others will favor arcade or sim-arcade games over sims but Metacritic takes into account all reviews. GTR, a top PC sim, received a score of a 1 (I kid you not) factoring in to the MC score and the reviewer compared it to NFS Pro Street (I kid you not). It is what it is. Most should actually try and play both games to see the pros and cons. You'll appreciate the pros more and won't neglect the cons. I love both franchises so I always play both (except for Prologues, their existence is blasphemy)
 
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That seems like a glitch related to the IBL they put in the game. The post above gave the perception the game is littered with glitches. I myself have not experienced any glitches so far.
 
That's a funny one. Have you tried downloading the DLC stuff, not purchasing but doing the DLC download so you don't see ghost/silhouette cars but the cars themselves?
 
azrael1965
Sorry, but that is just the same kind of low level bashing FM4 gets by people who never played it before. Regarding the Nordschleife (and Ryan81 was referring to it) GT5 has 100x more soul than FM4. It has the correct layout, the 24h version, night& weather, so how can it be more clinical? How can you feel the soul of the track if Turn 10 didn't even try to make it accurate. I am pretty sure they can do it, because they did pretty well with other tracks, they just didn't care. This is what i would call missing soul.
To prove that the GT5 Nordschleife is not soulless just go to the GT5 Section on GTplanet. Count the number of ring threats there, enjoy the stories of peoples who have done the endurance races and share their experiences.
Click to expand...
Except that's one track that PD did right. What's to stop me from saying T10 has "100x more soul" than PD because Laguna Seca or Road America are much more correct than some of the other tracks in GT5? How can you feel the "soul of Laguna" when it's represented as such a dreadfully boring track unlike FM4's counterpart? Or that T10 has "more soul" because they captured the sound & raw nature of the cars better than PD with 800 of them?

Though to be perfectly honesty, saying a game has "soul" is ridiculous, imo. I can understand a car or that, but it's a video game....
 

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