FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Bogie 19th]

1:25...

Standard cars and GT5 still looks better.

So the verdict is Forza wins because it has a livery editor and the reasonably priced car top gear event??

What a joke.

Actually, Forza 4 looks better...but that video you posted showed many more reasons why Forza 4 won his review.

 

[Brend]

Actually, Forza 4 looks better...but that video you posted showed many more reasons why Forza 4 won his review.

>opinion

 

[cuco33]

The best looking standard in GT5 is not better looking than the worst looking car model in FM4.

I really hate this disparity in GT5 and I hope no other developer ever follows suit. They deserved all the flack they got for what they did.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Using a video that says "GT5's Standard cars look like a dog's breakfast compared to Forza 4's cars" is probably not the best argument for Standard cars. Just saying

(2:36)

That said, there are some disappointments with FM4's cars; the first-gen NSX taillights look awful and flat, for one.

 

[FuzzyFassbender]

Again, I pop in from time to time to check out this long running thread. Yes it it true, there are posts by Forza "fanboys" that wouldn't give the GT series any credit where credit is due. BUT, and this is a big but, there is no question Forza 4 is a great virtual driving/racing sim. This isn't just my "opinion", it is the consensus of many virtual racers and reviews. ANYTHING can be picked apart if put under a microscope but does that mean it's of less value. My wife is not perfect but I am not trashing her
You may "prefer" one virtual racer over another but when I see posts claiming bad graphics, physics, or this or that it is clear it's coming from those the need to put on blinders to only see what they want to see. It's sounds like school kid rants all over again. Get over it and enjoy what to own, or buy an Xbox and enjoy another great console virtual racing sim.

 

[Bogie 19th]

>opinion

Yes, in my opinion.

 

[HAL20XX]

That said, there are some disappointments with FM4's cars; the first-gen NSX taillights look awful and flat, for one.

I just noticed that the other day. I was actually really surprised to see how bad they looked.

 

[shadynader]

Again, I pop in from time to time to check out this long running thread. Yes it it true, there are posts by Forza "fanboys" that wouldn't give the GT series any credit where credit is due. BUT, and this is a big but, there is no question Forza 4 is a great virtual driving/racing sim. This isn't just my "opinion", it is the consensus of many virtual racers and reviews. ANYTHING can be picked apart if put under a microscope but does that mean it's of less value. My wife is not perfect but I am not trashing her
You may "prefer" one virtual racer over another but when I see posts claiming bad graphics, physics, or this or that it is clear it's coming from those the need to put on blinders to only see what they want to see. It's sounds like school kid rants all over again. Get over it and enjoy what to own, or buy an Xbox and enjoy another great console virtual racing sim.

👍

I think you are making too much sense to be posting in this thread.

 

[Brend]

Yes, in my opinion.

Just pointing out it looked as though you were making that sound like fact. 👍

 

[GTForzafan]

Well, isn't that curious ? A video that compares and highlights the pros and cons of the each game...

And people, stating that they are opinions ? Wait...
Someone using the poor excuse, of the " over the top" comment made by the narrator, is missing the whole point...
The standard car's in GT5 most of the times are awful...
And to even try to balance it, with some of the inaccuracies and worst models from forza's, it´s only to lose focus of the main issue....

Standards in GT5 are subpar, and not "standard" models for the current generation...
What is to discuss ? Why people try to arrange excuses, for something that is at plain sight... obvious
Standard models are conversions... from other GT series games...


Chariots of Fire, opinion ? Give me a break...
This kind of nonsense and defending of GT5 shortcomings, it's unbelievable...
So you're actually saying that converted models from PS2, PSP old Gt series compared to the forza models, it's a matter of opinion ?

When the game creator itself, recognized that standards are conversions, and gave that name to the core part of the vehicles of the game, and considered them "standard"
it's not a matter of opinion, but a fact....

And that user tizzla, didn't even listen to the conclusion... of that video
When analysing the two games, for the journalist, GT5 loses to forza 4, because overall forza's feels a better package, with more consistency...
Not because of livery editors or top gear's better implementation only...


Let's learn to deal with facts: Premium content of GT5 is unrivaled by forza's....
The main issue, it's the quantity of standard material in GT5...

Opinions are arguments about which is the best game, which has the better physics...
60 fps versus weather and frame rate issues....

 

[Da-Bomber]

Forza 4 cars look a ton better than gt standards. What are you people smoking?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Forza 4 cars look a ton better than gt standards. What are you people smoking?

Whatever it is, it must sell for an incredible sum or money with a very demanding volume, and must be one powerful substance.

I agree though Forza has some great things to offer, especially car selection, the cars that many of us wanted to see in this game (that still aren't in it) are in Forza.

 

[phillgt2002]

I don't think Forza's cars are bad looking sometimes I just think that it is the lighting.

 

[GTForzafan]

Some forza's models, are innacurate or took some liberties and don't respect the original model of the car...
The lighting in forza's 4 is much better.... but still unrivaled by the lighting of GT series

 

[Brend]

Chariots of Fire, opinion ? Give me a break...
This kind of nonsense and defending of GT5 shortcomings, it's unbelievable...
So you're actually saying that converted models from PS2, PSP old Gt series compared to the forza models, it's a matter of opinion ?

When the game creator itself, recognized that standards are conversions, and gave that name to the core part of the vehicles of the game, and considered them "standard"
it's not a matter of opinion, but a fact....

Hmm...Nah.

It's an opinion because there is no derived fact from a Youtube video showing gameplay. And where did I imply standards compared with Forza 4. I would appreciate not putting words in my mouth.

The user said F4 looks better than GT5, and we both know that it could go either way depending on car, track, scenery etc.

If we are going to play the standard card then I poise you this; How's that fictional Nurburgring track?

I know F4 looks better than most, if not all, GT5's standards.

 

[cuco33]

Some forza's models, are innacurate or took some liberties and don't respect the original model of the car...
The lighting in forza's 4 is much better.... but still unrivaled by the lighting of GT series

I always like to see the models that are wrong so I'd like to see which ones you are referring too. I've heard the 69 Camaro doesn't come with a vinyl top but just some quick google searching I came across a few 69 Camaros with vinyl tops. Some cars are modeled dependent on region so bumpers might be slightly more pronounced or stubbier as an example, likewise some lights might be different as well such as the VW Rabbit GTI. I'm pretty sure seeing all the pics of real Enzos alongside the Forza models in the past (FM3 to be exact) that there seems to be a slight difference in the nose and front but it's not all that bad and could be difference in angle or as mentioned variation in model year or region the car was built for. Nothing as bad as what PD did modeling a premium Audi R8 with the wrong engine in the bay, which as a VW/Audi fan I laugh at but I'm not really going to complain over. It's things like that when I laugh at people going to deep lengths on how PD are gods and pay so much attention to detail and whatnot.

 

[GTForzafan]

Chariots... he was contractiding tizzla...
With the sentence... Standard car and Gt5 looks better...


He was replying to that... by saying... actually forza 4 looks better...
So, i'm not putting words in anyone's mouth...

That's not an opinion, it's a fact...
Chariots of fire, your own argument about the Nurburing track... tells me all about you and what are you trying to achieve...
So GT5 and the Ring debate...
Are you really trying to compare, a accurate modeling of a track, with the standard cars issue ?
What's your point, besides useless discussion...
Tell me, doesn't GT5 has also, innacurate tracks... ?

So for you is a Card ? The standard issue... so let's balance it with the perfect Nurburing track for GT5 ?
Laughable... to say the least!
When more than 65% of the vehicles are standard.... comparing the tracks to the vehicles....
It's how should i Say.... nonsense... the usual nonsense

 

[Brend]

Chariots... he was contractiding tizzla...
With the sentence... Standard car and Gt5 looks better...


He was replying to that... by saying... actually forza 4 looks better...
So, i'm not putting words in anyone's mouth...

That's not an opinion, it's a fact...
Chariots of fire, your own argument about the Nurburing track... tells me all about you and what are you trying to achieve...
So GT5 and the Ring debate...
Are you really trying to compare, a accurate modeling of a track, with the standard cars issue ?
What's your point, besides useless discussion...
Tell me, doesn't GT5 has also, innacurate tracks... ?

So for you is a Card ? The standard issue... so let's balance it with the perfect Nurburing track for GT5 ?
Laughable... to say the least!
When more than 65% of the vehicles are standard.... comparing the tracks to the vehicles....
It's how should i Say.... nonsense... the usual nonsense

My point is each games have their own good and bad points in terms of looks, none is perfect and I don't think either is better than each other. Both are inconsistent...

 

[prymet1me]

GT5 inconsistencies outweigh the ones in Forza by a few pounds. And you can go into the GTP GT5 forum if you need a list.

 

[GTForzafan]

Chariots of Fire, trapped with a weak argument ?
So you are saying that Gt5 inconsistencies can be compared with forza's .. ?
So let's put it on a scale ? Shall we ?
It's not a balanced comparasion is it ?
By the way, it's not what you think, that would be your opinion... but using only the facts...
That was the discussion...
And the fact is that forza's downsides are much less, than gt5....
And I ask again, what was your point of using the Ring track accuracy, that wasn't the argument, was it...
It seems to me, that facing the obvious, you used the most common argument, when talking about GT5, people always bring the Nurburing track accuracy to the "rescue".
That wasn't the debate, was it ?
The debate was the standard material, and when GT5 offers more than 65% of standard converted material and tracks, if you want to specify, it's clear that forza's offering it's equally distributed....
And this doesn't change, even if the GT5 RIng is the accurate one....

 

[HAL20XX]

One thing that's always bothered me is the fact that they're called standards. It makes it seem as though they were doing us a favor by adding premiums. To me it's more like the premiums should have been called standards and the standards called filler.

 

[Spagetti69]

One thing that's always bothered me is the fact that they're called standards. It makes it seem as though they were doing us a favor by adding premiums. To me it's more like the premiums should have been called standards and the standards called filler.

Nearly mate. I think I called it right back about a year ago.

The category is called sub standards.
Premium are standard models.

 

[azrael1965]

My favourite car the R8 LMS is actually a standard. Sure i would like to have it premium but i am still happy with it.

 

[Spagetti69]

My favourite car the R8 LMS is actually a standard. Sure i would like to have it premium but i am still happy with it.

Maybe they didn't have time to model that one?

 

[azrael1965]

Maybe, it really deserves a premium treatment, especially they even have a real life simulator featuring the R8 LMS.

But i think it's one of the better looking standards. Especially when photographed by a good artist.

 

[Brend]

Chariots of Fire, trapped with a weak argument ?
So you are saying that Gt5 inconsistencies can be compared with forza's .. ?
So let's put it on a scale ? Shall we ?
It's not a balanced comparasion is it ?
By the way, it's not what you think, that would be your opinion... but using only the facts...
That was the discussion...
And the fact is that forza's downsides are much less, than gt5....
And I ask again, what was your point of using the Ring track accuracy, that wasn't the argument, was it...
It seems to me, that facing the obvious, you used the most common argument, when talking about GT5, people always bring the Nurburing track accuracy to the "rescue".
That wasn't the debate, was it ?
The debate was the standard material, and when GT5 offers more than 65% of standard converted material and tracks, if you want to specify, it's clear that forza's offering it's equally distributed....
And this doesn't change, even if the GT5 RIng is the accurate one....

I already answered why I used the Nurb as an example? Why ask again. I don't like repeating myself so I'm not gonna do it.

 

[HBK]

I always like to see the models that are wrong so I'd like to see which ones you are referring too. I've heard the 69 Camaro doesn't come with a vinyl top but just some quick google searching I came across a few 69 Camaros with vinyl tops. Some cars are modeled dependent on region so bumpers might be slightly more pronounced or stubbier as an example, likewise some lights might be different as well such as the VW Rabbit GTI. I'm pretty sure seeing all the pics of real Enzos alongside the Forza models in the past (FM3 to be exact) that there seems to be a slight difference in the nose and front but it's not all that bad and could be difference in angle or as mentioned variation in model year or region the car was built for. Nothing as bad as what PD did modeling a premium Audi R8 with the wrong engine in the bay, which as a VW/Audi fan I laugh at but I'm not really going to complain over. It's things like that when I laugh at people going to deep lengths on how PD are gods and pay so much attention to detail and whatnot.

Some Forza 4 models really look weird. Of course it's always better to have a high poly model that looks a little off instead of a low poly model that looks accurate given its technical limitations. But I for one am not sure I know what to think. I mean, of course I prefer to have fully modeled customizable cars even if they sometimes look a little odd, and the 800 Standard cars "affair" is one of the biggest failures in the history of video games.

But yet, despite a lot of polygons, some Forza 4 cars look really not that good. And it's not just a matter of millimeter accuracy. You can clearly see some models look way better than others, and it's not just up to the original car design.

Then again many Standard models really look bad with textured windows/door handles/wheel arches/whatever. But I think it's just another variant of the "uncanny valley". Forza 4 models should look good because they display lots of polygons, yet some of look so off that they leave a really bad impression. With GT5 Standards, you kind of know and unconsciously "accept" the technical limitations and therefore they doesn't leave that impression on a car by car basis.

I mean, I think it's not perceived at the same level. Having 800 Standards leave some really bad impression about the game, but (with some rare GT1-import exceptions) each car looks about the same, very few cars really "stand out". In Forza 4, all cars are fully modeled, so that leaves a very good impression overall, but when you play the game, you can easily notice some cars have a much better/accurate modeling than others, so in the end it's not really a clear cut "Forza 4 is more consistent". It is on many levels, but despite having about the same number of polygons per car, the modeling quality tend to be a bit inconsistent.

If that ramble ever makes sense.

 

[cuco33]

Can you point out which models look really weird? Or show examples via images or explain which ones..

One in particular that I remember in FM4 is the VW Corrado w/the Oettinger kit. The grill looks a bit smooshed down leaving the VW emblem not being circular. There's some cheap chicken wire behind the grill and front bumper slots. The thing is that the VW Corrado in stock form (and other kits) looks quite good but the Oettinger kit looks like crap, at least the grill does. The grill doesn't come with a VW emblem, Instead there's a small area to place the Oettinger logo so clearly whoever modeled this kit did it on someone who tweaked the Oetty kit, at least the grill. I took pics in game because to me, as a big VW/Audi fan, it just looks weird. Sadly I didn't upload the pics to fm.net yet. Maybe tonight I'll show the real car vs the grill. Just 1 example but the factory car looks pretty much spot on.

Another issue in FM4 that I came across is the mk4 VW Jetta/Bora. I built a beast of a Jetta, swapping drivetrain and slapping a big turbo and whatnot. The car is just mad, and it's things like this on why I really am into this game. The instrument/gauge cluster in the dash though is for EU, not US/NA market, and shows km/h. That's not the problem. The problem is that the needles for speedo and tach are off. It's a bug I believe was in FM3 and carried over into FM4. It's strange seeing the tach pinned past redline and the speedo pinned past the top listed speed. The digital cluster you get in other views show the right speed/rev but in car the gauge cluster is just wrong. lol.

And I really disagree. Forza 4 is more consistent without even question. My personal pics I've taken in the game but GT5 goes from looking like the real thing like this:

and this:

and this:

and this:

Now granted the 1st 2 above are in photo travel mode which bumps things up even more but then the last 2 above are from race replay and still look gorgeous ans stunning... and then in the same game we get this type of quality:

and this:

and this:

All GT5 race replay as the 800+ standards are locked out of photo travel mode. This disparity in consistency isn't there in Forza. In Forza 4 every car has access to the same consistent quality from race replay quality:

to the extra bump up in homespace quality:

The ONLY time you see even better quality models is the select few in AutoVista mode. But that is outside the game really. Every car is modeled to the same level for the game, can access the extra bumps up in quality like homespace, etc.

 

[GTForzafan]

HBK, i don't really understand your point...
When you say that standard cars, really don't stand out, it's hard to take you seriously....
When most of them are conversions, even if they are accurately modelled, doesn't change the fact, that they stick out, like a sore thumb....
Every game has issues, and forza 4 has some models that have some errors and mistakes, this is a problem of the outsourcing, sometimes there are good results, but sometimes you don't...
About the bugs on the game, it's exclusive to forza's ?
Mind you, that the game has a shorter development time, compared to Gran Turismo 5, and this game also had HUGE updates, to fix the bugs and errors....
What i see in forza's 4 customizations, it's sometimes the cars looks akward....
Besides, i wouldn't expect modelling errors on standard cars, since they are converted cars from other gt series games...
But i would prefer just like you, my Old mini cooper fully modelled and not standard version...
That's what bother's me, the standard and premium models, don't respect some of the most iconic vehicles....
When GT tries to be a encyclopedia for car freaks, it's just weird to see the standards...
About the photos, show me a standard gt car in a BIG picture, and produce a good photo...

 

[HBK]

HBK, i don't really understand your point...
When you say that standard cars, really don't stand out, it's hard to take you seriously....

I meant most of them are consistent within themselves. Of course they stand out next to the Premium cars. That was not the point, because of course this point is not really open for discussion (even if, admittedly, while racing the difference isn't *that* visible, bar the lack of cockpit view).

I just meant most Premium are consistent, and most Standard are consistent. The same cannot be said of the Forza 4 car roster. Cars like the F40, some of the older NSXes, the S2000, man they really look bad. And it's not just a matter of super duper accuracy. They just look bad. I dunno, when you look at them, you can tell something is just not right.

And not, I'm not one of those freaks that can tell there's a two millimeter difference between the turn signal and the wheel arch. Some models are just painful to look at. Fortunately they are far from being the majority, but they still exist and are way too numerous for my tastes.

I won't even go into the many cockpit glitches like reversed mirrors and biased gauges, because admittedly most GT5 and FM4 dashboard are now basically unreadable during racing due to overdone HDR, and camera positioning. So that's a moot point.

And just to be clear, the whole Standard situation is in my opinion one of the biggest fiasco in video games history. Still, all GT5 premium all look shockingly good, and the same cannot be said of all FM4 models, even if, yes, I'm aware there more than twice cars in FM4 than there are premiums in GT5.

Even if I think that FM4 is a great game (and have stated it numerous times that FM3 is one of the greatest game I've ever played, right beside FM2), and think that GT5 is a bad game, I just can't ignore the fact that the overall quality of car modeling is far from being one of the strong point of the Forza series, whereas GT5 car modeling is top notch, even if Standard cars shouldn't have been included in that game in the first place.