FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[cuco33]

I meant most of them are consistent within themselves. Of course they stand out next to the Premium cars. That was not the point, because of course this point is not really open for discussion (even if, admittedly, while racing the difference isn't *that* visible, bar the lack of cockpit view).

I just meant most Premium are consistent, and most Standard are consistent. The same cannot be said of the Forza 4 car roster. Cars like the F40, some of the older NSXes, the S2000, man they really look bad. And it's not just a matter of super duper accuracy. They just look bad. I dunno, when you look at them, you can tell something is just not right.

And not, I'm not one of those freaks that can tell there's a two millimeter difference between the turn signal and the wheel arch. Some models are just painful to look at. Fortunately they are far from being the majority, but they still exist and are way too numerous for my tastes.

I won't even go into the many cockpit glitches like reversed mirrors and biased gauges, because admittedly most GT5 and FM4 dashboard are now basically unreadable during racing due to overdone HDR, and camera positioning. So that's a moot point.

And just to be clear, the whole Standard situation is in my opinion one of the biggest fiasco in video games history. Still, all GT5 premium all look shockingly good, and the same cannot be said of all FM4 models, even if, yes, I'm aware there more than twice cars in FM4 than there are premiums in GT5.

Even if I think that FM4 is a great game (and have stated it numerous times that FM3 is one of the greatest game I've ever played, right beside FM2), and think that GT5 is a bad game, I just can't ignore the fact that the overall quality of car modeling is far from being one of the strong point of the Forza series, whereas GT5 car modeling is top notch, even if Standard cars shouldn't have been included in that game in the first place.

This:

is what you see when racing in the Lupo cup. The jaggies in the rear hatch are noticed as you drive by them. Then some standards are done pretty decent lacking any major eye soar like these jaggies. Then the premium cars don't have any of these issues because they simply look stunning. Consistency... GT5 does not have.
Standard cars go from looking pretty good for being ports to just god awful. I've grown a passion for taking pics of cars during races and other modes, probably because I'm also an amateur photographer who loves cars and goes to motorsport and auto/enthusiast show events. When a car I like in GT5 is a standard, most of the times the issues in the models are just apparent and stick out badly.

What is it about the cars you mentioned that look bad? I keep reading, not just on here but on other boards, that some models look bad and no one really explains why. Just simply 'they look bad'. I'm not attacking nor defending. I'm interested in seeing the praises and the faults in both games and their models.

With all that said, when the stars are all aligned meaning premium cars in phototravel modes/'premium' tracks.. GT5 still looks better, looks photorealistic at times and the premium car models are modeled better with more detail. It's been said way too often but the standards are what take away from the premiums.

 

[trombone]

Remember the jump from PS1's GT2 to the PS2's GT3? The car count went from over 500 in GT2 to 180 cars in GT3. I was entirely expecting something similar for GT5 as it was the first full game on the PS3. My expectations for GT5 and GT6 were; first, a visual power show, then a content extravaganza in that order.
For GT5, we got a hybridization of those two concepts all at once. Over 1,060 cars (and counting), AND the best graphics on a console... just not always at the same time.

In my opinion, determining the better game comes down to an x-factor, which as far as I can tell, is determined by personal preferences and your own type of tolerance.
For example, if you can tolerate worse graphics at some times, you are then awarded with stunning graphics most of the time in GT5. If you can tolerate absolutely nothing and want everything consistent so that you don't notice the flaws, you'll prefer FM4, because it does everything "satisfactorily" but nothing truly "great" when compared to GT5's best work (which as I said is not present 100% of the time).

^Basically, one F1 driver finished 3rd every race this season(FM4), and another driver finished 1st most of the season but went off track in a spectacular fireball here and there(GT5). Who won the season? Depends on who you enjoyed watching more, which for me is GT5.

Now we're just waiting for the Sebastian Vettel of the videogame world that can win every race and stay consistent at it. 👍

 

[GTForzafan]

Your argument, show clearly your preference...
When someone says that in GT5, most of the times they have stunnig graphics... I can't take that poster seriously....
If he said that some of the content and vehicles are stunning ... i would agree...
You do know, that other people have the game, so why say sentences like that ?

And bringing the car count, into this discussion ? Really ? It's that really important, when more than a half are conversions from last generation e psp gt series games ?
Then you most also count the 150 skylines... and models variations, the tuned factory versions...

When all the stars are aligned, said another poster....
When you say, that most of the times you have stunning graphics, what are you trying to prove, besides your blatant preference and bias analysis...

When someone says that forza's does nothing trully great, well I think that he is on the wrong section...

 

[Vaxxtx]

Remember the jump from PS1's GT2 to the PS2's GT3? The car count went from over 500 in GT2 to 180 cars in GT3. I was entirely expecting something similar for GT5 as it was the first full game on the PS3. My expectations for GT5 and GT6 were; first, a visual power show, then a content extravaganza in that order.
For GT5, we got a hybridization of those two concepts all at once. Over 1,060 cars (and counting), AND the best graphics on a console... just not always at the same time.

In my opinion, determining the better game comes down to an x-factor, which as far as I can tell, is determined by personal preferences and your own type of tolerance.
For example, if you can tolerate worse graphics at some times, you are then awarded with stunning graphics most of the time in GT5. If you can tolerate absolutely nothing and want everything consistent so that you don't notice the flaws, you'll prefer FM4, because it does everything "satisfactorily" but nothing truly "great" when compared to GT5's best work (which as I said is not present 100% of the time).

^Basically, one F1 driver finished 3rd every race this season(FM4), and another driver finished 1st most of the season but went off track in a spectacular fireball here and there(GT5). Who won the season? Depends on who you enjoyed watching more, which for me is GT5.

Now we're just waiting for the Sebastian Vettel of the videogame world that can win every race and stay consistent at it. 👍

I disagree. When I payed GT5 it was bad most of the time (lack of cockpit, and mostly standard cars, damage, and sound) and good only sometimes (premium cars, the rare "ok" sounding car). Never at point did while I was playing GT5 did I think "this is great".

FM4 does plenty "great" imo. Sounds, damage, variety of cars, tracks, online, cusomization, physics, tuning, upgrades, rivals, leaderboards, all of that is great. I am not limited on what looks or plays good. The bad does not stick out as obvious as GT5.

 

[GTForzafan]

Vaxtxx, he is clearly a fan of GT5...
No one could say that GT5 most of the times has stunning graphics, without having a great bias opinion, what did you expect ?
Then he goes on, with his bias comment, and says that forza's does nothing trully great... compared to gt5....
Well, in customization, sound and community, it's obvious that gt5 falls short...

This isn't a opinion, when someone says that most of the times GT5 has stunning graphics, well painting a pretty picture, it isn't to turn it into reality...

When the standard content ( vehicles/tracks) it's more than half of the content of the game...
I can't accept sentences like he posted.... they contribute to nothing, maybe satisfying egos ?

 

[trombone]

Your argument, show clearly your preference...
When someone says that in GT5, most of the times they have stunnig graphics... I can't take that poster seriously....
If he said that some of the content and vehicles are stunning ... i would agree...
You do know, that other people have the game, so why say sentences like that ?

And bringing the car count, into this discussion ? Really ? It's that really important, when more than a half are conversions from last generation e psp gt series games ?
Then you most also count the 150 skylines... and models variations, the tuned factory versions...

When all the stars are aligned, said another poster....
When you say, that most of the times you have stunning graphics, what are you trying to prove, besides your blatant preference and bias analysis...

When someone says that forza's does nothing trully great, well I think that he is on the wrong section...

I would like to offer a rebuttal, but I think there are only ...two complete sentences in your analysis of my ...opinion. I... bolded the... text of your ...full ...sentences. Fyi: Ellipses ...aren't ...periods... and are annoying... to read...

I would also like to mention my lack of ownership of GT4 or GTPSP when the Skylines were over-represented. I don't notice the many Skylines now because they are mainly extra models in GT5 and can only add to the genuinity of the game rather than detract from it. There are only 64 Skylines in all anyway. Tehe! Explain why more is inferior. And yes, I do blatantly( big word ehh?) have a preferance to more.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I would like to offer a rebuttal, but I think there are only ...two complete sentences in your analysis of my ...opinion. I... bolded the... text of your ...full ...sentences. Fyi: Ellipses ...aren't ...periods... and are annoying... to read...

I would also like to mention my lack of ownership of GT4 or GTPSP when the Skylines were over-represented. I don't notice the many Skylines now because they are mainly extra models in GT5 and can only add to the genuinity of the game rather than detract from it. There are only 64 Skylines in all anyway. Tehe! Explain why more is inferior. And yes, I do blatantly( big word ehh?) have a preferance to more.

Why? I mean this is one of the more finer point I'm willing the vehemently debate with people. The past Forza's to me have been a snooze, well two wasn't that bad I guess for plain ol' xbox. However, FM4 has been great due to the fact that no one area or country is represented more than another, as in GT5 you have the overwhelming more than 60% of the cars are Japanese. With the first DLC that only increased. This is something Forza has beat GT5 at this time even with a little more than half the cars of GT at the moment.

Then you wage all other factors, such as the ability to make the car your own and not run into someone with the same looking car as yourself online. Or just parts that boost performance beating out GT5, as well as paint selections that you can make your own with out have to buy or wait for the paint chip. It becomes apparent to a casual car enthusiast and not someone that is stuck on a brand name (Gran Tursimo, Forza Motorsports or even Need For Speed) that the game with an equal content and not one sided content is more desired. If a person wants to drive every Skyline to come out of Japan, then GT5 is their game, if they want the main skylines but several other cars of differing make and country then FM4 is your game.


Yet I guess at the end of the day, you probably have a great love for Skylines and that's why your happy to see more, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it does seem to be a fringe group.

 

[azrael1965]

If a person wants to drive every Skyline to come out of Japan, then GT5 is their game, if they want the main skylines but several other cars of differing make and country then FM4 is your game.

I love F1 cars , but i can't drive them in Forza, after all they are the fastest cars in motorsport and the most exiting to drive in my opinion.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I love F1 cars , but i can't drive them in Forza, after all they are the fastest cars in motorsport and the most exiting to drive in my opinion.

I love them too, I'm glad Codemasters has a great F1 series thus far, as well as iRacing having a Williams model fit for a true simulator. Gee what great things! Also maybe the license is expensive or only exclusive to Codemasters now. The only reason PD got the two F1s is due to them being owned by Ferrari and Ferrari letting them use the cars on strict measures.

However, if you want to go out and buy GT5, slave through all that just to drive one or both F1 cars in the game...that's fine. Not to be mean, but common sense would tell me to go get a dedicated F1 game.

 

[azrael1965]

I love them too, I'm glad Codemasters has a great F1 series thus far, as well as iRacing having a Williams model fit for a true simulator. Gee what great things! Also maybe the license is expensive or only exclusive to Codemasters now. The only reason PD got the two F1s is due to them being owned by Ferrari and Ferrari letting them use the cars on strict measures.

However, if you want to go out and buy GT5, slave through all that just to drive one or both F1 cars in the game...that's fine. Not to be mean, but common sense would tell me to go get a dedicated F1 game.

Sure i got both F1 2010 and 2011 but they don't let me do what i like most, drive one of the fastest cars on the planet on the Nürburgring Nordschleife. Like they used to back in the 70s. But i would like to see some of the F1 cars of that era in GT5. maybe in a future DLC? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IfKptzLWck

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Sure i got both F1 2010 and 2011 but they don't let me do what i like most, drive on of the fastest cars on the planet on the Nürburgring Nordschleife. Like they used to back in the 70s. But i would like to see some of the F1 cars of that era in GT5. maybe in a future DLC?

Me as well, and sure they let you drive at the Nürburgring, it's the F1 version for the modern era

However, the point I was making is GT5 doesn't seem too fair when it comes to regions for cars especially when comapred to Forza4.

 

[cuco33]

I love F1 cars , but i can't drive them in Forza, after all they are the fastest cars in motorsport and the most exiting to drive in my opinion.

F1 being fastest cars in motorsports is debatable and depends on what exactly you define as being fast. Top speed? around a course? fastest acceleration? They might be, on the norm, pulling the fastest times around a circuit but that's usually because other car types have bigger restrictions. LeMans prototypes are very close in lap times and are subjected to more restrictions than the F1 cars. IndyCar has faster top speeds. F1 in my book has the best acceleration of all cars in motorsports. Add to that their light weight, high power, and aerodynamics and is why they normally go around a track the fastest. Still, F1 does not race around Nord, they race around Nurburgring GP and GT5 only has 2 stunning looking Ferrari F1 models and 1 fictional FGT. Great to have in the game but I'm of the camp that if I want a proper F1 game I'll get a proper F1 game. In the meantime I'll just enjoy taking out the F1 cars in GT5 whenever I feel the need to.

 

[cuco33]

This is actually a better shot then I thought it was but here's that Oettinger equipped VW Corrado with the squished down VW emblem

In game when panning the camera while racing or in photo mode the VW emblem looks more squished down.

The car in real life w/the Oetty kit, you can see no VW emblem and it has the Oettinger badge instead

 

[dylansan]

Is it just me or is that the GT logo in the reflection where the oettinger plate should be?

 

[azrael1965]

F1 being fastest cars in motorsports is debatable and depends on what exactly you define as being fast. Top speed? around a course? fastest acceleration? They might be, on the norm, pulling the fastest times around a circuit but that's usually because other car types have bigger restrictions. LeMans prototypes are very close in lap times and are subjected to more restrictions than the F1 cars. IndyCar has faster top speeds. F1 in my book has the best acceleration of all cars in motorsports. Add to that their light weight, high power, and aerodynamics and is why they normally go around a track the fastest. Still, F1 does not race around Nord, they race around Nurburgring GP and GT5 only has 2 stunning looking Ferrari F1 models and 1 fictional FGT. Great to have in the game but I'm of the camp that if I want a proper F1 game I'll get a proper F1 game. In the meantime I'll just enjoy taking out the F1 cars in GT5 whenever I feel the need to.

Well, Forza doesn't have IndyCars either. And LeMans Prototypes are not slower because of restrictions, but because they have to endure 24h races. Try that with a F1 or IndyCar. F1 is the fastest because they have the most advanced aerodynamics, just like you said.

 

[Tornado]

I just meant most Premium are consistent, and most Standard are consistent. The same cannot be said of the Forza 4 car roster. Cars like the F40, some of the older NSXes, the S2000, man they really look bad. And it's not just a matter of super duper accuracy. They just look bad. I dunno, when you look at them, you can tell something is just not right.

I think there are Premiums that suffer from the same problem. For example, something about the C5 Corvette looks so far off that I personally think that (lack of polygons aside) the Standard looks better.

 

[cuco33]

Well, Forza doesn't have IndyCars either. And LeMans Prototypes are not slower because of restrictions, but because they have to endure 24h races. Try that with a F1 or IndyCar. F1 is the fastest because they have the most advanced aerodynamics, just like you said.

There are restrictions in all forms of motorsports. The LeMans prototypes have always yielded major restrictions especially the diesels continue to get hammered to 'level the playing field'. Audi, when running the gas R8s, even had a complaint for swapping out gear boxes too quickly.. lol. They even tried to screw Audi over by specifying the geometry of the injectors for their diesels but not so smart idea since the special diesel fuel they used flowed like gas, unlike conventional diesel. Instead of hurting, they actually helped. Prototypes like the diesels now have to have closed cockpits and they are all restricted. F1 used to be faster as well. Aerodynamics are sort of similar in tech between the F1 cars and the Prototypes. F1 gets the advantage of having adjustable downforce (DRS) which the Prototypes can't do. Indycar has faster top speeds.

 

[azrael1965]

There are restrictions in all forms of motorsports. The LeMans prototypes have always yielded major restrictions especially the diesels continue to get hammered to 'level the playing field'. Audi, when running the gas R8s, even had a complaint for swapping out gear boxes too quickly.. lol. They even tried to screw Audi over by specifying the geometry of the injectors for their diesels but not so smart idea since the special diesel fuel they used flowed like gas, unlike conventional diesel. Instead of hurting, they actually helped. Prototypes like the diesels now have to have closed cockpits and they are all restricted. F1 used to be faster as well. Aerodynamics are sort of similar in tech between the F1 cars and the Prototypes. F1 gets the advantage of having adjustable downforce (DRS) which the Prototypes can't do. Indycar has faster top speeds.

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8409
Quote:
LMP1 cars are consistently around 10-15 seconds a lap slower than F1 cars on the circuits they both use.
Silverstone:
2009 F1 Q2 time: 1:18.119
2009 LMS Pole time: 1.32.798
Nurburgring:
2009 F1 Q1 (Q2 was wet) time: 1:31.257
2009 LMS Pole time: 1:41.944'
And also in europe we usually believe that F1 has the best and most famous drivers. But that might not be true for the US market. I just think that it wouldn't have hurt if Forza had one or two F1 Cars as well, even if just for comparison to other car classes.

 

[prymet1me]

Forza should leave F1 out unless they plan to have events and a full grid of different cars. Looking at the F1 game by code masters and the 2 real F1 cars and the fake F1 car in GT5 it seems there is a license thing with the F1 properties.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Forza should leave F1 out unless they plan to have events and a full grid of different cars. Looking at the F1 game by code masters and the 2 real F1 cars and the fake F1 car in GT5 it seems there is a license thing with the F1 properties.

Which is what I too told the user but they seem to think Forza can just put them in there.

 

[HBK]

There are restrictions in all forms of motorsports. The LeMans prototypes have always yielded major restrictions especially the diesels continue to get hammered to 'level the playing field'. Audi, when running the gas R8s, even had a complaint for swapping out gear boxes too quickly.. lol. They even tried to screw Audi over by specifying the geometry of the injectors for their diesels but not so smart idea since the special diesel fuel they used flowed like gas, unlike conventional diesel. Instead of hurting, they actually helped. Prototypes like the diesels now have to have closed cockpits and they are all restricted. F1 used to be faster as well. Aerodynamics are sort of similar in tech between the F1 cars and the Prototypes. F1 gets the advantage of having adjustable downforce (DRS) which the Prototypes can't do. Indycar has faster top speeds.

Very much, this. F1 cars are faster because they are allowed to. This doesn't detract from the achievement, of course. But still, one shall not forget to put things into perspective.

 

[azrael1965]

Which is what I too told the user but they seem to think Forza can just put them in there.

I still nothing wrong in a F1 car or IndyCar in Forza. What's the problem? The seasonal event with the FGT car in GT5 have been one of the best A Spec races i had for a while. And it didn't hurt iracing to have a single F1 car. And some people were willing to pay 35$ to drive in it.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I still nothing wrong in a F1 car or IndyCar in Forza. What's the problem? The seasonal event with the FGT car in GT5 have been one of the best A Spec races i had for a while. And it didn't hurt iracing to have a single F1 car. And some people were willing to pay 35$ to drive in it.

Dude...that's not the point, we are trying to tell you basic restrictions Turn 10 probably has like any other game out there. Since they probably weren't willing to pay or work with EA this time they lost out on having Porsche in the game. Now F1 is pretty much closed up license wise for Codemaster since it is the official F1 game. IRL and Indylights is restricted only to iRacing at the moment I believe. So with all this Turn 10 can't get new F1 cars or IRL cars cause they may not be allowed to have the licenses.

That is what we're trying to tell you. Oh and as far as one off original cars go...T10 isn't PD they don't make special original cars. PD seems to be the only ones that do that (they're great at it).

 

[Terronium-12]

More importantly, open-wheeled suspension mechanics aren't modeled. Knowing that, even if they were to do a custom Formula Forza car it'd require an extensive rewrite for both the suspension physics and the physics calculations themselves.

Lest we forget there would also have to be active suspension animations as well. All of that just for one car? No thank you.

Wait until they progress on to the next Xbox as they're fully aware the community wants open-wheeled cars.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

More importantly, open-wheeled suspension mechanics aren't modeled. Knowing that, even if they were to do a custom Formula Forza car it'd require an extensive rewrite for both the suspension physics and the physics calculations themselves.

Lest we forget there would also have to be active suspension animations as well. All of that just for one car? No thank you.

Wait until they progress on to the next Xbox as they're fully aware the community wants open-wheeled cars.

Exactly and if one needs an open wheel fix (a true open wheel fix), go out and get F1 2010 or F1 2011. They do a better job of allowing you to drive all of those season's f1 cars

 

[azrael1965]

Lest we forget there would also have to be active suspension animations as well. All of that just for one car? No thank you.

Wait until they progress on to the next Xbox as they're fully aware the community wants open-wheeled cars.

But it wouldn't be just one car, but one of the fastest in real life. I wouldn't care if it's a custom car, a IndyCar or a F1 car. Actually i don't like the X2010 at all, PD wasted their time with this fantasy crap.

Exactly and if one needs an open wheel fix (a true open wheel fix), go out and get F1 2010 or F1 2011. They do a better job of allowing you to drive all of those season's f1 cars

I got both F1 2010 and 2011. But to say the truth I don't enjoy them as much as GT5 or Forza 4. The games always give you the feeling the player doesn't own the car, but is only driving for a team. Sure that is realistic , but I just don't like it. And I don't like to drive vs AI drivers with real names. It's just stupid to even think about driving faster then Alonso or vettel even if it's just a game.
So I like to play the F1 races in GT5 more then the Codemasters F1 games. Also the feedback with the T500 RS seems a little better. But it's just a personal preference, I am no expert in F1 games at all.

 

[GTForzafan]

Trombone, your preference isn't for more, it's for GT5...
Your opinion can't be taken seriously, when you say that GT5, most of the times shows stunning graphics.
Everyone who has the game, knows that regrettably this isn't the truth...
Funny enough, that point you didn't even tried to rebate !
One more thing opinion, cannot be mistaken with the reality...
You can be convinced that GT5 most of the times offers stunning graphics, that isn't the truth...
So you have a tainted bias opinion...
Evey car fanatic, recognizes that the standards give a bad name to GT5....
But a fan of the GT5, will never recognize this, because more content is good, even if it's made of conversions of past generations...
Hell, i think many ps3 users, were so eagerly waiting for the game to come, that even if it came half developed, they would accept it without questions... ( wait, a minute that was what happened, in my own opinion) so I understand your point.

About your point of prefering more, makes me laugh... because you weren't given more, but the same cars converted of the past generation GT's, only to increase the number of cars...
In my opinion, standards are not more, but less...
Less options, less graphics, less sound effects, and finally last generation....
When a game with stunning graphics, shoves ps1 and ps2 textures, that's poor development decisions and when you look for the vehicle roster available, you see that PD, is stuck in the past, with it's wider range of japanese vehicles, and neglects the European and American cars.
You like Skylines ? Great... but forza's offers a much wider variety of cars....
And now you see Kazunori speech, who was previously against any form of DLC, now announces DLC .... SHOCKING
And with the fisrt DLC, being cars that you have already, and even more surprisingly JAPANESE cars, i Think you can count on another batch of japanese vehicles, and a lot of Skylines... for the following DLCS....

Hey, but it doesn't matter! More is always GOOD! Even if it's more of the same /s

 

[cuco33]

I'm not trying to knock on F1, I really like the Motorsport and the tech and drivers behind it. I just think that in some cases lms cars would beat an f1. Depends on track, conditions and restrictions. F1 generally pulls faster laps on tracks both have been to but la sarthe and its long straights would lean heavily on lms prototypes. I look at both f1 ans lms and see very different but very similar types of cars.
That said, I do like having the few f1 cars in gt5 but if I want a proper f1 game ill get a proper f1 game.

 

[goldiefx]

Hell, i think many ps3 users, were so eagerly waiting for the game to come, that even if it came half developed, they would accept it without questions... ( wait, a minute that was what happened, in my own opinion) so I understand your point.

thats not just your opinion i share it too as well as many others lol

in my opinion fanboys and greed ruined gt5, and if you read the IGN article, it kinda hints that the dlc will be more of what they put on in the first round of dlc. i.e stig barbie clothes and race modded cars and 2 tracks( imo the only dlc slightly worth getting)

I still think it funny to read this thread when alot of people are ignoring facts

 

[azrael1965]

I'm not trying to knock on F1, I really like the Motorsport and the tech and drivers behind it. I just think that in some cases lms cars would beat an f1. Depends on track, conditions and restrictions. F1 generally pulls faster laps on tracks both have been to but la sarthe and its long straights would lean heavily on lms prototypes. I look at both f1 ans lms and see very different but very similar types of cars.
That said, I do like having the few f1 cars in gt5 but if I want a proper f1 game ill get a proper f1 game.

I like Le Mans as well. Especially this years 24h was awesome , when the last surviving Audi won against the Peugeot numerical superiority. But yet if you see the drivers list, it doesn't have such a strong cast as F1. And it's Peugeot vs Audi and not, Red Bull vs Ferrari and Mclaren, even Manufacturers like Mercedes and Renault are struggling in F1. BMW, Honda , Toyota surrendered a few years ago. Sure I would prefer the proper F1 games if i was a true fan, but with age i have become a casual player. So I don't have the patience for training and qualifying anymore. I am still stuck halfway in my first career in F1 2011 and can't get enough motivation to finish it. Instead I play a few minutes of FM4 and GT5 for some cash and experience.