FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

[Nessy]

But really though... what would be the point?, as i can pretty much guarantee that the cars i find interesting, quirky, or even important, will most probably be Everything you hate about cars.

That's why i hate it when i hear: "It's all about the cars that people want to be driving and have an interest in", you may think you're speaking for everyone with that kind of statement... but you're not, i'm not saying that others don't share your opinion, just that you'd probably be surprised about the amount of people that share my opinion aswell.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Try me.

 

[Nessy]

Again... what would be the point, i'm just saying that i can, doesn't mean that i have too... TBH i'm feeling rather lazy at the moment, so maybe i'll do it a bit later.

 

[UKMikey]

VW Schwimmwagen in ten... nine...

I gotta admit Turn 10 are somewhat lacking when it comes to the tuk-tuk end of the market. Maybe as DLC, heh heh.

 

[Nessy]

^ May be slow as hell, but still a welcome addition... well for me anyway

 

[Scaff]

Now if you had said something like the Mazda AZ-1 Autozam I would be with you 100% (FM4 needs some Kei car goodness ASAP).

The Scwimmwagen however is just a waste of time for me.


Scaff

 

[Nessy]

Very short list off the top of my head (and in no particular order), of cars that aren't present in Forza 4... (will add to the list, when i can be bothered to):

Aston Martin V8 Vantage 99.
Alfa Romeo Duetto Spider 66 (i think) i prefer the shape of this 1.
Alfa Romeo 164.
Alfa Romeo 155 Touring car.
Caterham Fireblade.
Escort rally car
Fiat 500 (original 1)
Ginetta G4.
Honda S800.
Jensen Interceptor.
Lotus Europa.
Mazda Cosmo 110s.
Mazda AZ1.
MG TF.
Mini Cooper (original shape).
Ruf Yellowbird.
Ruf BTR (original shape)
Suzuki Cappucino.
TVR Grittith.
TVR 350c.

 

[Nessy]

Mazda AZ1 is 1 of my favourite cars ever.. aswell as the Cappucino (think that's how it's spelt).

 

[Patrick]

You can edit your post.

 

[Scaff]

Very short list off the top of my head (and in no particular order), of cars that aren't present in Forza 4... (will add to the list, when i can be bothered to):

Aston Martin V8 Vantage 99.
Alfa Romeo Duetto Spider 66 (i think) i prefer the shape of this 1.
Alfa Romeo 164.
Alfa Romeo 155 Touring car.
Caterham Fireblade.
Escort rally car
Fiat 500 (original 1)
Ginetta G4.
Honda S800.
Jensen Interceptor.
Lotus Europa.
Mazda Cosmo 110s.
Mazda AZ1.
MG TF.
Mini Cooper (original shape).
Ruf Yellowbird.
Ruf BTR (original shape)
Suzuki Cappucino.
TVR Grittith.
TVR 350c.

The problem with doing this kind of thing is that its so personal and you can almost always find interesting cars that are unique to each.

For example, the 155 Touring Car would be great in FM4, but for me the current Guiletta is missing from GT5 (and as I own one would be a must).

However a better example would be the Escort rally car, no way would I swap that for the Mk2 Escort and Escort Cosworth that FM4 has, both to me are far more worthwhile.

Its a game you can play with any title, what's arguably more important is the overall balance of cars in a title, and for me FM4 does that better than GT5, for others it will be the other way around.

GT5's list is too stuck in the older titles of the series for me, and didn't add enough new cars (i.e. 2010 and onwards) or interesting classics.

However if I were to combine both cars list in a single game, that would be ideal.


Scaff

 

[MagpieRacer]

Very short list off the top of my head (and in no particular order), of cars that aren't present in Forza 4... (will add to the list, when i can be bothered to):

Aston Martin V8 Vantage 99.
Alfa Romeo Duetto Spider 66 (i think) i prefer the shape of this 1.
Alfa Romeo 164.
Alfa Romeo 155 Touring car.
Caterham Fireblade.
Escort rally car
Fiat 500 (original 1)
Ginetta G4.
Honda S800.
Jensen Interceptor.
Lotus Europa.
Mazda Cosmo 110s.
Mazda AZ1.
MG TF.
Mini Cooper (original shape).
Ruf Yellowbird.
Ruf BTR (original shape)
Suzuki Cappucino.
TVR Grittith.
TVR 350c.

Aston Martin V8 Vantage 99. Disagree
Alfa Romeo Duetto Spider 66 (i think) i prefer the shape of this 1.
Alfa Romeo 164.
Alfa Romeo 155 Touring car. Agree
Caterham Fireblade. Agree
Escort rally car Agree, but we can make our own version
Fiat 500 (original 1) agree
Ginetta G4. Agree
Honda S800.
Jensen Interceptor. Agree
Lotus Europa. Agree
Mazda Cosmo 110s. Disagree
Mazda AZ1. Agree
MG TF. Disagree
Mini Cooper (original shape). Agree wholeheartedly
Ruf Yellowbird. Agree
Ruf BTR (original shape) Agree
Suzuki Cappucino. Really?
TVR Grittith. Agree
TVR 350c. Agree

 

[Nessy]

@ Scaff

Exactly, that's why, although i started a list.. i don't really feel that compelled to finish it... i think i was just trying to make a point against those people who think that their opinion encompasses what everybody feels about a certain thing...

You feel that FM4 list caters better to your tastes.. which is great, where-as i feel GT5 caters better for mine... which is also great.

PS, Agree about combining them both.. not just car selection but a merge of both game's.. now that would be truly awesome, but i think we all know it's never gonna happen ... infact it's more likely that an unknown competitor would come out of nowhere (having poached key figures from each stable) and create a game that destroys both franchises. lol

 

[t.o.]

Aah tornado again. Long time no see. Still moaning about gt5 or have you finally moved on?

You don't need to play forza to see the vast design differences between the two developers. Well i don't need to anyway

I was gonna post my 2 cents on this but after I read the replies of the people ripping through you like prunes through an old man I decided to pass. But that highlighted point is a credibility killer. As of this point you just loss all of yours. That's a ridiculous statement to be honest. As much of a failure I feel GT5 is I'll probably still give GT6 a shot once it's been out for a few months and I get the word from TRULY non-biased people in here. But you WONT hear me talking about a game I don't own as if I played it.

Nice to see folks who haven't played fm4/played at friends still chime in here

Am I the only one that still goes back and forth between the 2 titles?

Just make that mental note of "credibility gone" when you see those forum names of these "experts" on a title they've never played. And a few hours at a "friend's house" is NOT playing in my book.
Unfortunately I don't go back and forth between the two. Which there was enough for me to but for my own sake there isn't.

The problem with doing this kind of thing is that its so personal and you can almost always find interesting cars that are unique to each.

For example, the 155 Touring Car would be great in FM4, but for me the current Guiletta is missing from GT5 (and as I own one would be a must).

However a better example would be the Escort rally car, no way would I swap that for the Mk2 Escort and Escort Cosworth that FM4 has, both to me are far more worthwhile.

Its a game you can play with any title.
Scaff

You mean the old "point out a few cars the other title doesn't have and wave it like a flag all the while knowing the other title has cars I'm creaming over that isn't in "my" game but don't bring that point up" game? lol. Yeah I know that game.

There are some cars in GT5 that I'd like to have in Forza for sure. I'd definitely want them in Forza so I can feel how they drive properly.

 

[MagpieRacer]

However a better example would be the Escort rally car, no way would I swap that for the Mk2 Escort and Escort Cosworth that FM4 has, both to me are far more worthwhile.
Scaff

Not to mention with some careful tuning and livery creation the Escort WRC can be spawned in FM4.

 

[Nessy]

Not to mention with some careful tuning and livery creation the Escort WRC can be spawned in FM4.

Of-course, you are correct in that it can be easily spawned, TBH i put that in the small list to make a very small point with regards to your list.. (ie: Forza has Escort Cosworth... GT doesn't), that's pretty much the only reason i put it there.

But as Scaff pointed out, whichever side of the argument you stand... it's really quite pointless, as everyone will have their own personal take on which they feel is best for them, and in my own opinion, i feel GT5 has the greater diversity in selection for my tastes compared to Forza... Yes, Forza has cars that GT doesn't, but the same can be said for GT, and i'm pretty sure GT5 has more cars that aren't present in Forza4...

I really don't have a problem with people preferring Forza's list (or handling) over GT's (though at the moment i prefer GT's handling.. have only played Forza4 demo).
But with regards to your statement: "Its all about cars that people want to be driving and have an interest in, GT5 for the most part fails on this most basic of things.".... i really couldn't disagree more.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

In regards to car lists, I think Forza covers the more casual gamer's interests better than GT5. This isn't faint praise - us fanatics are the minority, these games live and die by their casual gamer sales, not the hardcore, sim-rigged buyers.

FM4 balances old and new, road and race, and different sections of the globe more evenly than GT5, though, and I think that'd be why it does appeal more, to more people - GT's "advantage-cars" are mostly Japanese ones, while Forza's unique-between-the-two cars are more evenly spread from all over the world. Well, sort of - I don't think Forza has many unique Japanese models, the exceptions being ones made for other markets in mind (the TSX V6, the Civic Si's, etc).

I'm much like Scaff in that sense though - I miss the Kei cars when I'm playing FM4, specifically the Cappy and AZ-1. I also miss the '70 Galant, and the original Mini. That said, there's plenty more on FM4's list I miss whenever I load up GT5, especially taking into account the cardboard cut-out interiors of a lot of my favourites in GT.

 

[Vaxxtx]

Forza 4 has a better respresentation of cars. You are not cornholed into mostly Japanese cars.

FM4 has a better variety of performance cars. I am not just talking about Supercars, but even with the El Camino, and Dodge Omni, or GMC Typhoon, you have vehicles with some history of performance.

If you want to get real detailed, I would also compare FM4 cars vs GT5 premium cars only...since the standards should not have even been in a current gen game. So going that route, well FM4 has it.

The only reason I can see somebody liking the selection of cars in GT5 is if they are a hardcore older JP car lover with a serious love for the MX5 and Skyline.

One last thing, playing a game at the store, a friends house, a cousins, a neighbors, a demo, watching videos, hearing about it, etc. doesnt make you an expert of it. In fact if you dont own it, and give it some time, your opinion is lessened by a huge factor.

 

[tribolik]

Forza 4 has a better respresentation of cars. You are not cornholed into mostly Japanese cars.

FM4 has a better variety of performance cars. I am not just talking about Supercars, but even with the El Camino, and Dodge Omni, or GMC Typhoon, you have vehicles with some history of performance.

If you want to get real detailed, I would also compare FM4 cars vs GT5 premium cars only...since the standards should not have even been in a current gen game. So going that route, well FM4 has it.

The only reason I can see somebody liking the selection of cars in GT5 is if they are a hardcore older JP car lover with a serious love for the MX5 and Skyline.

One last thing, playing a game at the store, a friends house, a cousins, a neighbors, a demo, watching videos, hearing about it, etc. doesnt make you an expert of it. In fact if you dont own it, and give it some time, your opinion is lessened by a huge factor.

And if you dont own either??? arent you entitled to an opinion never the less? I dont own FM4 and my opinion is that it seems to be a better game... as for the standars/premium discution I could care less because I drive with the invisible car view (same as cockpit view but without the car, some call it bumper view but thats incorrect) and its nice to have a big variety of cars to choose from... and IMO there arent many japonese cars but there are few european and american cars... especialy race cars.

 

[Vaxxtx]

And if you dont own either??? arent you entitled to an opinion never the less? I dont own FM4 and my opinion is that it seems to be a better game... as for the standars/premium discution I could care less because I drive with the invisible car view (same as cockpit view but without the car, some call it bumper view but thats incorrect) and its nice to have a big variety of cars to choose from... and IMO there arent many japonese cars but there are few european and american cars... especialy race cars.

First off I never said you couldnt have an opinion..everyone does. Point being without having spent some real time with it, your opinion does not hold much water. In fact, you may hate FM4. Probably not, but still.

If you are going to buy a car, do you want to hear about how it drives, from someone who has driver that exact car? How about someone who "heard" about it, and saw a youtube video of a person driving it? Who can tell you what it FEELS like to drive it more? Take it a step further...what if the car your looking at is a Ford, and the person who hasnt driven it is a hard core Chevy fan (driven a Chevy since birth, nothing else). Would you trust that persons opinion?

Its the same thing with some GT5 fans. Some have been "loyal" to a brand (played GT 1-5 and not much else) and has made them scared to step outside the realm. Might be with Forza folks too, and both are limited in their "opinions" of the other.

 

[PzR Slim]

In regards to car lists, I think Forza covers the more casual gamer's interests better than GT5. This isn't faint praise - us fanatics are the minority, these games live and die by their casual gamer sales, not the hardcore, sim-rigged buyers.

FM4 balances old and new, road and race, and different sections of the globe more evenly than GT5, though, and I think that'd be why it does appeal more, to more people - GT's "advantage-cars" are mostly Japanese ones, while Forza's unique-between-the-two cars are more evenly spread from all over the world. Well, sort of - I don't think Forza has many unique Japanese models, the exceptions being ones made for other markets in mind (the TSX V6, the Civic Si's, etc).

I'm much like Scaff in that sense though - I miss the Kei cars when I'm playing FM4, specifically the Cappy and AZ-1. I also miss the '70 Galant, and the original Mini. That said, there's plenty more on FM4's list I miss whenever I load up GT5, especially taking into account the cardboard cut-out interiors of a lot of my favourites in GT.

I'd agree with this but go a little bit further. If you take the average racing gamer or motorsports fan then I think the FM4 car list will be more appealing than the GT5 list just because of the range and the inclusion of many more modern cars. And I'd also say that the vast majority of racing gamers outside of Japan who have a Japanese car fetish, and I don't use that word in a derogatory sense, only do so because of the GT series. Most who are new to the series or haven't played the GT series at all just won't have had their eyes opened to that car culture. I would say most of those people would look at the GT5 list and be a little baffled by that section of cars whereas those who have a love of Japanese cars look at the list and really get off on it. So to service that niche market GT5 wins but to service the must larger market of general racing gamers or petrol heads FM4 easily takes it.

 

[Nessy]

Forza 4 has a better respresentation of cars. You are not cornholed into mostly Japanese cars.

The only reason I can see somebody liking the selection of cars in GT5 is if they are a hardcore older JP car lover with a serious love for the MX5 and Skyline.

One last thing, playing a game at the store, a friends house, a cousins, a neighbors, a demo, watching videos, hearing about it, etc. doesnt make you an expert of it. In fact if you dont own it, and give it some time, your opinion is lessened by a huge factor.

I agree that Forza4 (for many) probably has a better balance of cars in some respects... especially when appealing towards the more casual gamer in particular, it also appears to be a very good option if you're a hardcore USDM car lover, as in the same way that JP cars are represented in GT5, i feel the same can be said about Forza4 and USDM cars... but on a somewhat smaller scale in fairness.

With regards to valid opinions, although i don't believe your comment was specifically targeted towards me, (i have never claimed to be an expert on Forza4... or GT for that matter)... i will address it anyway, the best i can from my own perspective.

Iv'e played and owned pretty much every iteration of GT, iv'e also played and owned Forza1,2 and 3.. but have only played the Forza4 demo, and while i can appreciate what you're saying about not being able to judge a game, until you have actually owned and have played the game for a while... i still wouldn't wholly trust the opinion of those that have...

Me personally, i'm the kind of person that would rather trust my own opinion on something, rather than take somebody else's word for it... i much prefer a "try before you buy" kind of method, (hence) me trying the Forza4 demo to judge for myself before i consider buying it... y'know.. kind of what you'd do when buying a car in real life for instance.. rather than listening to a so-called expert or listening to somebody who already owns the same kind of car. it makes more sense (to me) to test-drive the car for yourself, and unfortunately, i wasn't really bowled-over with the (test-drive) if you will, of the Forza4 demo...

Now whether you feel my opinion holds any water or not.. that's up to you really, you could well argue my opinion means nothing and holds no water, because i haven't played the full game.. let alone for a lengthy period, (for me personally, i tend to take Everybody's opinion with a pinch of salt).

Ultimately.. i probably will get around to (at-least renting, if not buying) Forza4 once they've truly fixed the online perhaps (games broke without it.. imo), to give it a more lengthy test-drive, but at the moment GT5 serves me well.. in my opinion, the cars that iv'e experienced in real life that are in GT5 feel spot-on (Honda Del-Sol, 2003 Honda S2000, and Fiat 500)... however the handling of those same cars in Forza3, left me feeling a bit disappointed to be honest, i guess i'll just have to find out for myself when i get around to Forza4, but at the moment i find it hard to believe that the handling of those cars in F4 will somehow surpass that of GT5's, though at best.. i can begin to imagine that maybe it will be on par, when comparing said cars in both games,

As the saying goes... Proof is in the pudding.

 

[HBK]

As much of a failure I feel GT5 is I'll probably still give GT6 a shot once it's been out for a few months

I'm with you on this one. I'm not planning to skip GT6, but I'm pretty sure I won't be getting it on day one. I might even consider to skip it depending of the game's reception.

Few games ever disappointed me so much that I won't be getting their sequel on day one (another example on this gen' is FF13). Even if I was expecting to be disappointed by some aspects (based on the info one with too many time on his hands can get by lurking around), I wasn't ready for the massive failure the game was on so many respects.

I think that's the lesson PD (and all other developers) should learn. If you screw up once, get ready to lose some sales on the sequel. No one is expecting games to be perfect, but GT5 has too many flaws to be considered even remotely acceptable. The game was a disaster on release, and still is to a degree after numerous and extensive patches.

Please, developers, don't do this to us again.

 

[PzR Slim]

I can see me pre ordering GT6 without a second thought. Don't get me wrong GT5 was a big let down but there have still been some great moments for example take and SLS around the ring with weather and change of time. And at the end of the day I used to spend the cost of a game on a night out and only have a bad head and weak urine to show for it! I'll still buy it because I'm still a GT fanboy, just one who has had his eyes opened by broken promises.

 

[PAWEL17]

In regards to car lists, I think Forza covers the more casual gamer's interests better than GT5. This isn't faint praise - us fanatics are the minority, these games live and die by their casual gamer sales, not the hardcore, sim-rigged buyers.

FM4 balances old and new, road and race, and different sections of the globe more evenly than GT5, though, and I think that'd be why it does appeal more, to more people - GT's "advantage-cars" are mostly Japanese ones, while Forza's unique-between-the-two cars are more evenly spread from all over the world. Well, sort of - I don't think Forza has many unique Japanese models, the exceptions being ones made for other markets in mind (the TSX V6, the Civic Si's, etc).

I'm much like Scaff in that sense though - I miss the Kei cars when I'm playing FM4, specifically the Cappy and AZ-1. I also miss the '70 Galant, and the original Mini. That said, there's plenty more on FM4's list I miss whenever I load up GT5, especially taking into account the cardboard cut-out interiors of a lot of my favourites in GT.

Well put(as always). I looked over the list myself. And i agree

 

[Vaxxtx]

I agree that Forza4 (for many) probably has a better balance of cars in some respects... especially when appealing towards the more casual gamer in particular, it also appears to be a very good option if you're a hardcore USDM car lover, as in the same way that JP cars are represented in GT5, i feel the same can be said about Forza4 and USDM cars... but on a somewhat smaller scale in fairness.

Me personally, i'm the kind of person that would rather trust my own opinion on something, rather than take somebody else's word for it... i much prefer a "try before you buy" kind of method, (hence) me trying the Forza4 demo to judge for myself before i consider buying it... y'know.. kind of what you'd do when buying a car in real life for instance.. rather than listening to a so-called expert or listening to somebody who already owns the same kind of car. it makes more sense (to me) to test-drive the car for yourself, and unfortunately, i wasn't really bowled-over with the (test-drive) if you will, of the Forza4 demo...

Ultimately.. i probably will get around to (at-least renting, if not buying) Forza4 once they've truly fixed the online perhaps (games broke without it.. imo), to give it a more lengthy test-drive, but at the moment GT5 serves me well.. in my opinion, the cars that iv'e experienced in real life that are in GT5 feel spot-on (Honda Del-Sol, 2003 Honda S2000, and Fiat 500)... however the handling of those same cars in Forza3, left me feeling a bit disappointed to be honest, i guess i'll just have to find out for myself when i get around to Forza4, but at the moment i find it hard to believe that the handling of those cars in F4 will somehow surpass that of GT5's, though at best.. i can begin to imagine that maybe it will be on par, when comparing said cars in both games,

As the saying goes... Proof is in the pudding.

I totally agree with everyone opinions not mattering as much until YOU try it, I am the same way. Ask most people and they will say Mass Effect, and Elder Scrolls series are great...I couldnt disagree more. But I am the minority.

Just FYI, I have not had any issues with running with my league online. 12+ people 4 heats, and I think out of 10 or so races, 1 person has lagged out (and he was a UKer).

And another FYI...FM3 physics are not even close to FM4. Night and day. Also if you want a more unbiased look at how much better FM4 physics are vs. GT5, (if more life like physics is what you are after), read FM4 vs GT5 physics on forzaplanet.net and pay attention of Scaffs posts.

I'm with you on this one. I'm not planning to skip GT6, but I'm pretty sure I won't be getting it on day one. I might even consider to skip it depending of the game's reception.

I think that's the lesson PD (and all other developers) should learn. If you screw up once, get ready to lose some sales on the sequel. No one is expecting games to be perfect, but GT5 has too many flaws to be considered even remotely acceptable. The game was a disaster on release, and still is to a degree after numerous and extensive patches.

Please, developers, don't do this to us again.

I am with you on this. I will take a look at GT6 but not at launch and not for a few months after.

 

[Nessy]

Just FYI, I have not had any issues with running with my league online. 12+ people 4 heats, and I think out of 10 or so races, 1 person has lagged out (and he was a UKer).

And another FYI...FM3 physics are not even close to FM4. Night and day. Also if you want a more unbiased look at how much better FM4 physics are vs. GT5, (if more life like physics is what you are after), read FM4 vs GT5 physics on forzaplanet.net and pay attention of Scaffs posts.

Just FYI, i'm a UKer, and have always had slight problems concerning the online for Forza2 and 3 (didn't venture online with the 1st), i changed my NAT settings for a more acceptable online play, which did help a bit, but i'd say about 25% of the time, it still lagged out... and from what iv'e read and heard about Forza4, the problems even worse now.... So for me, i still view it as being broken and until it's fixed, i really don't see any point of me purchasing it, as it's quite a large part of the game for me.

With regards to Night and day changes in physics... i tend to think you're maybe exaggerating a tad (imo).... don't get me wrong, you're in a better place to judge the differences than i am... afterall, iv'e only played the demo, and i admit i did find a difference, but although i did notice a difference in physics, i would have hardly described it as being Night and day (imo).

 

[Scaff]

Just FYI, i'm a UKer, and have always had slight problems concerning the online for Forza2 and 3 (didn't venture online with the 1st), i changed my NAT settings for a more acceptable online play, which did help a bit, but i'd say about 25% of the time, it still lagged out... and from what iv'e read and heard about Forza4, the problems even worse now.... So for me, i still view it as being broken and until it's fixed, i really don't see any point of me purchasing it, as it's quite a large part of the game for me.

UK based as well (and I will admit with a 20 meg fibre line) and almost zero issues with on-line, certainly less issues that GT5 has with lobbies of over 12 cars.

With regards to Night and day changes in physics... i tend to think you're maybe exaggerating a tad (imo).... don't get me wrong, you're in a better place to judge the differences than i am... afterall, iv'e only played the demo, and i admit i did find a difference, but although i did notice a difference in physics, i would have hardly described it as being Night and day (imo).

Prior to FM4 I have always rated the GT series as better (in terms of physics) that the FM series, 4 changed that for me and not in a small way. I will honestly say that FM4 is a total change from FM3 in terms of physics, in particularly suspension modelling, load transfer and tyre modelling.


Scaff

 

[t.o.]

Just FYI, I have not had any issues with running with my league online. 12+ people 4 heats, and I think out of 10 or so races, 1 person has lagged out (and he was a UKer).

You wouldn't be talking about the WRTCC series would you
That was a TON of fun. Especially with the custom liveries making it look like a real race and not a bunch of high school students stealing cars from the local auto dealer and running around a track.

UK based as well (and I will admit with a 20 meg fibre line) and almost zero issues with on-line, certainly less issues that GT5 has with lobbies of over 12 cars.




Prior to FM4 I have always rated the GT series as better (in terms of physics) that the FM series, 4 changed that for me and not in a small way. I will honestly say that FM4 is a total change from FM3 in terms of physics, in particularly suspension modelling, load transfer and tyre modelling.


Scaff

There's always going to be issues with online play between continents. Internet just wasn't built with this in mind.

I agree with the physics. FM4 is more than a small change over FM3. However, as I've stated before, I even believe FM3 to be closer to real than GT5 is. GT5 felt like driving on ice alot of the time.

 

[cuco33]

Just FYI, i'm a UKer, and have always had slight problems concerning the online for Forza2 and 3 (didn't venture online with the 1st), i changed my NAT settings for a more acceptable online play, which did help a bit, but i'd say about 25% of the time, it still lagged out... and from what iv'e read and heard about Forza4, the problems even worse now.... So for me, i still view it as being broken and until it's fixed, i really don't see any point of me purchasing it, as it's quite a large part of the game for me.

With regards to Night and day changes in physics... i tend to think you're maybe exaggerating a tad (imo).... don't get me wrong, you're in a better place to judge the differences than i am... afterall, iv'e only played the demo, and i admit i did find a difference, but although i did notice a difference in physics, i would have hardly described it as being Night and day (imo).

With a pad and with a wheel, especially after the patch, it is night and day difference from FM3 to FM4. The physics are great, not perfect but great in FM4 and I'm one who also puts it as being better than GT5. It feels more real to me what happens in Forza 4 than in GT5.

 

[Nessy]

That's the thing Scaff, it's the other way around for me, as iv'e never experienced any problems with GT online (with lobbies of over 12 cars) or otherwise.

From what iv'e played of the Forza4 demo and from clips iv'e seen, the load transfer.. Does look improved, so i agree with you on that 1, with regards to tyre modelling... again it does look really good (the way they move around), but the only thing that puts me off about the tyre modelling... is, i seem to remember the same thing being said about Forza3's tyre modelling... things like "Forza3's tyre modelling is Perfect"... then, if that was the case, how on earth have they managed to improve upon it, if of course it was supposed to be perfect in the first place?... Again, will just have to try it out for myself once they've fixed the game.