FM Vs GT - Discussion Thread (read the first post before you post)

  • Thread starter Scaff
  • 8,743 comments
  • 540,822 views
That's the thing Scaff, it's the other way around for me, as iv'e never experienced any problems with GT online (with lobbies of over 12 cars) or otherwise.

From what iv'e played of the Forza4 demo and from clips iv'e seen, the load transfer.. Does look improved, so i agree with you on that 1, with regards to tyre modelling... again it does look really good (the way they move around), but the only thing that puts me off about the tyre modelling... is, i seem to remember the same thing being said about Forza3's tyre modelling... things like "Forza3's tyre modelling is Perfect"... then, if that was the case, how on earth have they managed to improve upon it, if of course it was supposed to be perfect in the first place?... Again, will just have to try it out for myself once they've fixed the game.
I guess the same way people were saying that GT5 physics were "perfect" and exactly like real life and yet the changed them in GT5 and changed them yet again with a patch in GT5. What's with all the changes if GTP's physics were perfect to begin with. As in regards with FM3's tire model it was an mixture of different tires. A sum of what "the tire" would be but was no particular one manufacturer's tire. In FM4 the data comes straight from Pirelli.

In regards to the physics this is a graphical representation of how I feel about the physics.

6790546305_cea0bb3e28_b.jpg


The most important aspect , too me, is grip in a racing game. Too much grip is on the left, not enough grip is on the right. Perfect grip is, of course, real.
 
That's the thing Scaff, it's the other way around for me, as iv'e never experienced any problems with GT online (with lobbies of over 12 cars) or otherwise.

From what iv'e played of the Forza4 demo and from clips iv'e seen, the load transfer.. Does look improved, so i agree with you on that 1, with regards to tyre modelling... again it does look really good (the way they move around), but the only thing that puts me off about the tyre modelling... is, i seem to remember the same thing being said about Forza3's tyre modelling... things like "Forza3's tyre modelling is Perfect"... then, if that was the case, how on earth have they managed to improve upon it, if of course it was supposed to be perfect in the first place?... Again, will just have to try it out for myself once they've fixed the game.

Not me, when GT5 first came out I put it a little ahead of FM3. However, over my time with GT5 I came to realise everything wasn't quite what I thought. I realised they had 'fudged' the tyres to make them work and when FM4 came out that just leapt ahead of GT5. Particularly in suspension modelling and the tyre model.
 
Last edited:
That's the thing Scaff, it's the other way around for me, as iv'e never experienced any problems with GT online (with lobbies of over 12 cars) or otherwise.
You may want to have a read of this then....

https://www.gtplanet.net/complex-gt5-bug-causes-problems-for-online-racers/

...you may not have noticed it, but its been enough to cause the majority of the race series GTP host to be put on hold.


From what iv'e played of the Forza4 demo and from clips iv'e seen, the load transfer.. Does look improved, so i agree with you on that 1, with regards to tyre modelling... again it does look really good (the way they move around), but the only thing that puts me off about the tyre modelling... is, i seem to remember the same thing being said about Forza3's tyre modelling... things like "Forza3's tyre modelling is Perfect"... then, if that was the case, how on earth have they managed to improve upon it, if of course it was supposed to be perfect in the first place?... Again, will just have to try it out for myself once they've fixed the game.


Perfect by who's standard? I certainly don't recall T10 making any such claim.

The following however does help explain the differences:

T10
Tires:
In Forza, we’ve always focused on our tire simulation. As a result, we’ve struck up multiple partnerships over the years to get tire data. In the past, we’ve worked with Goodyear, Toyo, and Michelin. We also used reference data from the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). In past Forza Motorsport games, we even featured tire carcass flex, tire surface heat, as well as tire gas heat and expansion. However, the model was based on a combination of data from all of our previous partnerships. And we had to do fix-up on the data to make all of the different data formatting play nicely together.

For Forza 4, we took an entirely new approach to our tire simulation. This time, we threw all of the old data away and asked Pirelli to provide us with all-new data for everything. Pirelli did custom tests on a huge variety of tires to cover all of our cases—including tire width and height, compound, inflation pressure, heat, wear, sidewall height, load, angle, etc. We then changed our system to accept the real-world data directly and without any fix-up from us at all. This means that the tires in Forza 4 behave exactly as the Pirelli test tires did, even in complex situations where multiple parameters are changing rapidly.

Just looking at graphs of the Pirelli data versus our Forza 3 data, there are several obvious differences. Unfortunately, I’m not permitted to expound on the data differences. As part of getting this level of access and partnership from Pirelli, we have to keep their data completely under wraps. From a gameplay perspective, these changes are most noticeable as you move load from tire to tire. There is a lot more nuance in the model than ever before.
Source - http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/underthehood2/


Scaff
 
You may want to have a read of this then....

https://www.gtplanet.net/complex-gt5-bug-causes-problems-for-online-racers/

...you may not have noticed it, but its been enough to cause the majority of the race series GTP host to be put on hold.
Scaff

Thanks for bringing this to my attention, honestly did'nt even know others were having online problems with the game, though iv'e never (knowingly) encountered any of these problems myself.

Also thanks for the other link... but you really didn't need to, as iv'e read it before, and regardless of what the Devs have written themselves (i mean, they can tend to be a wee bit biased can't they), i will reserve judgement until i play the full game once they've fixed the online aspect of it.
 
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, honestly did'nt even know others were having online problems with the game, though iv'e never (knowingly) encountered any of these problems myself.

Also thanks for the other link... but you really didn't need to, as iv'e read it before, and regardless of what the Devs have written themselves (i mean, they can tend to be a wee bit biased can't they), i will reserve judgement until i play the full game once they've fixed the online aspect of it.

Oh I'm more than realistic enough to know that dev's will not slate the game they are producing, however they would need to be rather bold to make up sources of information or to misrepresent the information those sources provided.

I'm also a little confused about how you are going to know that on-line issues that are not widespread have been fixed to your satisfaction?


Scaff
 
I'm also a little confused about how you are going to know that on-line issues that are not widespread have been fixed to your satisfaction?


Scaff

Uh?!... sorry but i don't understand the question.

Oh right.. i get you, you're referring to Forza4 aren't you.

The simple answer is.. i will monitor threads on the other site (Forza.net) to see what ground they're making, (about the only thing i can do really)... afterall, they appear to be making the effort to fix it... but as to when it will be fixed, that's uncertain at the moment... so i guess i'll just wait.

Another thing, How do we know that the problem isn't widespread?... there is no way of really knowing, though i'm pretty sure it must be fairly widespread... otherwise, would they really be trying to fix it?
 
Last edited:
6790546305_cea0bb3e28_b.jpg


The most important aspect , too me, is grip in a racing game. Too much grip is on the left, not enough grip is on the right. Perfect grip is, of course, real.

Despite being too linear, that is an interesting chart.

Of course, this being the internet, I must disagree. My 07' Corolla, which I can only guess has the equivalent of Comfort Medium/Softs, will understeer when I accelerate just a bit too heavy at around 20mph due to a lack of grip. If it had Racing Softs in real life (imagine that), it would not understeer.

In GT5, the FF cars around 132hp with Comfort Softs will handle better than my car ever would at this speed, so I assume that GT5 has too much grip (at least at this performance level).

Nevertheless, I cannot therefore determine whether the tire physics in GT5 or FM4 are realistic, nor can most anyone, because I don't own hundreds of sports cars nor can I compare them in real life, thus making any assumption of the reality of physics in simulators irrelevant. It must be what feels right individually, and while that chart seems right to you, it is different for me.
 
trombone
Despite being too linear, that is an interesting chart.

Of course, this being the internet, I must disagree. My 07' Corolla, which I can only guess has the equivalent of Comfort Medium/Softs, will understeer when I accelerate just a bit too heavy at around 20mph due to a lack of grip. If it had Racing Softs in real life (imagine that), it would not understeer.

In GT5, the FF cars around 132hp with Comfort Softs will handle better than my car ever would at this speed, so I assume that GT5 has too much grip (at least at this performance level).

Nevertheless, I cannot therefore determine whether the tire physics in GT5 or FM4 are realistic, nor can most anyone, because I don't own hundreds of sports cars nor can I compare them in real life, thus making any assumption of the reality of physics in simulators irrelevant. It must be what feels right individually, and while that chart seems right to you, it is different for me.

I've always been under the impression that GT5 has slightly more grip than it should as well. Even on cars like the GT-R, it feels too fast, and lap times are too quick, on sport hards. I've found comfort sifts, and sometimes even mediums, to be the best choice for realism. I really wish we'd get better tire name choices though.

But even looking past that, my main issue with GT5 after having played FM4 for extended periods of time, is the lack of weight in most of the cars. It manifests itself most noticeably during turn-in: it's far too fast, especially on stock cars. FM4's transition feels more natural, comparing to real life, as there's a real sense of weight to the proceedings. You become accustomed to the lightness after a bit in GT (I never noticed it prior to October), but for me, it's one of the biggest differences between the two.

Well, overlooking the obvious tire modeling advantages FM4 has, that is. I've been meaning to write a very thorough review comparing both, I should probably get on that!
 
I am going to try and do a comparison of gt5, prologue and forza 4 to see what kind of pros and cons are for all three my opinion at the moment is forza is put together better

I seem to feel like forza has it closer to the real thing

Mind you maybe prologue will change my mind
 
I wonder how soon we'll see a GT5 787B vs FM4 787B comparison in here as the 787B is coming to FM4 via February DLC :sly:

I think it sounds good, muffled but good, at idle in GT5 and I'm expecting it to sound phenomenal in FM4.

I also hope that T10 got the craziness sound from the Audi S1 they are including as part of this DLC and the R18 is more than welcome :)
 
Gotta admit, February's Forza4 DLC is looking rather tasty to say the least.. couldn't really care less for the other cars (in Feb DLC) but... Mazda 787B, Alfa 155 and Audi S1 are pure win, when i do (eventually) get around to acquiring F4, will most definitely be getting those cars, fingers are also crossed for the Lotus Cortina being made available at some point... (my uncle used to have a modified version.. blistered arches etc, back in the late 70's), have a lot of fond memories of that car.
 
Let me sum up this battle:

Graphics winner: Gran Turismo 5

Carlist winner: Forza 4

Damage model winner: Forza 4

Physics winner: Gran Turismo (close call)

Customization winner: Forza 4

Overall car enthusiast game: Forza 4

That's my opinion. GT has some room to fill...
 
Let me sum up this battle:

Graphics winner: Gran Turismo 5 *
* = 20% of game content


Carlist winner: Forza 4 *
* = debatable, more variations of motorsports in GT5 but in my book FM4 car list > GT5


Damage model winner: Forza 4

Physics winner: Gran Turismo (close call) *
highly debatable, I feel FM4 > GT5 in terms of physics


Customization winner: Forza 4

Overall car enthusiast game: Forza 4

That's my opinion. GT has some room to fill...

Fixed for truth. And you neglected sound (amongst other things) which in my book is very big for a racing game. :P
 
We if you want to go there then this is what i have to say. Well FORZA has their many cars, with unrealistic arcade style handling and animated graphics. And GRAN-TURISMO has its many cars, simulation/realistic handling, HD graphics, sponsored events ect. But not trying to start a FORZA vs. GT fight. And one of the main factors about GT5 is that it wasn't even finished before it was pushed out to be released. Not the makers and developers fault, it is the market for the game. The way i see this game is sort of like a full game bata. And i yes i am very satisfied with with GT5 and the whole series. I just hope they keep doing what they are doing. I just have to add this... LONG LIVE THE REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR

Quoted from the DLC vs thread.

I have strong doubts that this person has ever played a single Forza game let alone FM4.

I love how more realistic handling is considered arcade like handling. I doubt he has ever actually driven a real car in his life.

"animated graphics"?

What is this?

GT5 having "HD" cars? Again, lol. When ever I look at normal photomode cars from GT5 all I can see is the much lower poly counts. Granted, they would do that so they can render interiors on all cars that have them modeled (i.e only 20% lol) in race but I just cannot stand the strait edges when there should be beautiful curves.

The only time car models are comparable IMO is phototravel vs homespace and this is more a comparison of what locations are available seeing as how limited FM4s homespaces are.

Autovista is above and beyond anything GT5 can dream of.
 
ORPHANTHIRTY7
We if you want to go there then this is what i have to say. Well FORZA has their many cars, with unrealistic arcade style handling and animated graphics. And GRAN-TURISMO has its many cars, simulation/realistic handling, HD graphics, sponsored events ect. But not trying to start a FORZA vs. GT fight. And one of the main factors about GT5 is that it wasn't even finished before it was pushed out to be released. Not the makers and developers fault, it is the market for the game. The way i see this game is sort of like a full game bata. And i yes i am very satisfied with with GT5 and the whole series. I just hope they keep doing what they are doing. I just have to add this... LONG LIVE THE REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR

Are you for real?

GT5-fall-update-6.jpg



Ya... GREAT "HD" graphics. I guess the card board cut-out interiors count as DLC right? Well, Forza doesn't have those so you win that battle.

Animated graphics? I might be mistaken but is there any video game out there doesn't have "animated" graphics? I really don't know how to respond to this argument... "Not trying to start a GT5 vs Forza fight..." but let me just compare and contrast the two from my biased point of view...

Simulation and realistic handling? I guess because that's what it says on the cover art right? I would put a months salary on the fact you have either 1- never touched Forza 4 or 2- played the demo at a buddy's house with a controller. You certainly do not own it.

"LONG LIVE THE REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR" Yes, spoken like a 12 year old who owns nothing but a PS3 and GT.

But hey, at least you are enjoying your "full game bata."
 
The R26B is just about the only Rotary I know well enough to identify, and that's it: won't be able to judge pitch and sample blending until I've tried it myself... but, goddamn.

The idle and top end seem to be spot on.
 
GT:
-Snow race
-rally race
-dynamic weather condition
-night racing
-nascar
-f1 race
-graphism
-sound ( just compare it with forza after patch 2.02, you are all saiying that it's better because all cars sounds like a ferrari enzo)
-physic
-Driver suits
-number of cars ( a lot of standart car are good looking)
-detail of tracks like the nurburgring
-b-spec
-Better AI after patch 2.00
-Tracks editor
-better smoke effect

Forza:
-Better Tuning
-autovista (but only with some cars)
-drag racing
 
-sound ( just compare it with forza after patch 2.02, you are all saiying that it's better because all cars sounds like a ferrari enzo)

No. They are saying it is better because the cars don't sound like a bunch of pissed off Roombas. Many of them actually sound fairly close to how the cars in real life do, in fact.



Which, considering I'm doing a B-Spec race right now that has a Corvette that sounds almost exactly like my Blazer, is quite an improvement over what GT5 has.



This is not a thing that exists in GT5. You might as well say that GT5 has FIA GT car races because PD made up a bunch of GT1-esque cars and put them in the game.
 
Toronado
This is not a thing that exists in GT5. You might as well say that GT5 has FIA GT car races because PD made up a bunch of GT1-esque cars and put them in the game.

Yes formula ferrari 2007, formula ferrari 2010 and a formula gt ( not a real)
 
GT:
-Snow race - Unused in A-spec
-rally race- Unused in A-spec
-dynamic weather condition - which drops the frame rate to below 30fps
-night racing - - which drops the frame rate to below 30fps and has headlights that don't work as they should
-nascar - without actual NASCAR regs or races
-f1 race without actual F1 regs or races
-graphism - if you mean graphics then yes, with a premium car on a premium track nothing touches it, but that's a small percentage of the total
-sound ( just compare it with forza after patch 2.02, you are all saiying that it's better because all cars sounds like a ferrari enzo) - I have, it still doesn't compare
-physic - I will get to this in a minute
-Driver suits - Pointless in my opinion
-number of cars ( a lot of standart car are good looking) - and more are not and the interiors are nothing of the sort
-detail of tracks like the nurburgring - Yep the 'ring is better, but paying for Route X hurt
-b-spec - Pointless in my opinion
-Better AI after patch 2.00 - and still leaves a lot to be desired
-Tracks editor - nice and it will be interesting to see how it goes
-better smoke effect - which drops the frame rate to below 30fps and pixilates the hell out of cars

Forza:
-Better Tuning - and it works like the real world
-autovista (but only with some cars) - and is pretty but pointless
-drag racing - and is still not done right, but better than nothing

Now the main one of these I care about is the physics, so please take a look at this post....

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6469660#post6469660


... and recreate the second video clip in GT5 and then when you can't come back and tell me how GT5 still has the better physics engine.

Thanks

Scaff
 
I want to start off saying I'm not trying to compare the games or anything. I only own GT5 currently, but as soon as I have some spare money, I'll be getting an XBOX and Forza 4. I just have a question. Why can't the cars in Forza 4 have different wheel offsets, the 787 being an example?
 
There aren't actually a video wich compare GT5 sound 2.02 and forza 4 but GT5 is closer to the real life sound like a 458 italia
Forza in sound is a bit exaggerated but has a good v8 sound
 
Terronium-12
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XGFJK0Ch7E">YouTube Link</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQrS_EjuLZ0">YouTube Link</a>

My question to you: since when did the Aventador have a Gallardo V10, as heard in GT5?

In GT5 like in forza 4 there are good and bad sound, but if you take enzo or a veyron, the sound is better
But overall, the sound if you take many cars in the 2 games, you can see that with the many cars, GT is closer to the real life
 
In GT5 like in forza 4 there are good and bad sound, but if you take enzo or a veyron, the sound is better
But overall, the sound if you take many cars in the 2 games, you can see that with the many cars, GT is closer to the real life

Wait, are you saying the Enzo and Veyron sound more accurate (better is negligible as that denotes opinion) in GT5 than in Forza? As for GT being closer to real life with many cars... no.

The CT230R sounds better in GT5, but I'll tell you right that an Inline-4 does not sound like, once again, the Gallardo V10... which, ironically, sounds more like an actual Gallardo than the sample used for the LP560.
 

Latest Posts

Back