FM7 vs. PCars 2 vs. GT:Sport

[McLaren]

The logic surrounding the arguments of FM7 continue to astonish me.

"If it wasn't shown at E3, it therefore does not exist in the game".

 

[breyzipp]

The logic surrounding the arguments of FM7 continue to astonish me.

"If it wasn't shown at E3, it therefore does not exist in the game".

Let's talk again in October

 

[bf3]

Reading some of the pc fans posts makes my days go faster,especially when they talking about unreleased games handling model and other features about nobody knows bar T10.Maybe i need to join Ian Bell chest beating mob so he can give me one of those crystal balls (which probably wull be buggy and wont do anything) ?
But hey - lets ignore people who drived all 3 games at E3 - SlipZtrEm and Jordan itself - and said about they experience and they prised FM7.I rather believe them than some unknowns.
Saying that GTS is improvement over GT6 is basically most funniest thing i read - while they both racing games,they are quite different categories,same applies to FM7.Im going to make it my signature-its THAT funny So much for racing game "expert" heh?
Calling 4K a fluff is another funny moment - would be nice to look how many game braking bugs will be in pc2 this time.I bet more than "ton of improvements"
BTW - T10 dont need to work on pad support for Forza engine - its ideal and cant be beaten and beats any racing game on any platform here easily.Some small companies must take a note how to do improvements,instead of talking about other devs and showing they insecurity.
Neither game gave much info in E3,some videos here,there,release dates - nothing new.
Xbox reliability issues?That sounds like another cheap shot

TokoTurismo & McLaren - i basically stopped reading that persons posts,there is nothing.Only when i want my day to start with laugh
I thought GTP got better after several years,people who used to post crap gone,but seems there is a new level of blindness and fanboyism.
Funny how Forza every year getting prise and awards,GOTY in racing,yet there are some "experts" who will keep saying otherwise just for the sake of saying.
Even GTS seems will be better than pc2 at the moment.
I will keep reading this thread only for

 

[Pillo-san]

Reading some of the pc fans posts makes my days go faster,especially when they talking about unreleased games handling model and other features about nobody knows bar T10.Maybe i need to join Ian Bell chest beating mob so he can give me one of those crystal balls (which probably wull be buggy and wont do anything) ?
But hey - lets ignore people who drived all 3 games at E3 - SlipZtrEm and Jordan itself - and said about they experience and they prised FM7.I rather believe them than some unknowns.
Saying that GTS is improvement over GT6 is basically most funniest thing i read - while they both racing games,they are quite different categories,same applies to FM7.Im going to make it my signature-its THAT funny So much for racing game "expert" heh?
Calling 4K a fluff is another funny moment - would be nice to look how many game braking bugs will be in pc2 this time.I bet more than "ton of improvements"
BTW - T10 dont need to work on pad support for Forza engine - its ideal and cant be beaten and beats any racing game on any platform here easily.Some small companies must take a note how to do improvements,instead of talking about other devs and showing they insecurity.
Neither game gave much info in E3,some videos here,there,release dates - nothing new.
Xbox reliability issues?That sounds like another cheap shot

TokoTurismo & McLaren - i basically stopped reading that persons posts,there is nothing.Only when i want my day to start with laugh
I thought GTP got better after several years,people who used to post crap gone,but seems there is a new level of blindness and fanboyism.
Funny how Forza every year getting prise and awards,GOTY in racing,yet there are some "experts" who will keep saying otherwise just for the sake of saying.
Even GTS seems will be better than pc2 at the moment.
I will keep reading this thread only for

I dont want to get involved it trash talking and such, but i thouhgt it was kinda funny hearing those words in bold in your quote.
Have you played forza with a wheel? If so then you should know that Forza is placed dead last, being passed by pretty much every car game out there. And if you defend it by saying, but it is so good with a pad, let me ask you this. Do you drive your irl car with a gamepad or a wheel? What should forza do especially great if it was a indeed a great car game worth of prices and awards?

When I see your post I think that you are complaining about yourself

It is a game, relax

 

[-Fred-]

Let's talk again in October

I have a feeling we'll be talking in September instead.

Do you drive your irl car with a gamepad or a wheel? What should forza do especially great if it was a indeed a great car game worth of prices and awards?

It is a game, relax

Can you pause your car irl when you have to pee or if your nose itches? Or if you miss your exit on the highway, can you restart your journey?

It's a game, as you say. There are multiple ways to enjoy games.

 

[McLaren]

Let's talk again in October

Let's not. Your arguments have already been proven false; you chose to ignore them.

Waiting a few months won't give you any credibility with your well known bias.

 

[Northstar]

Let's talk again in October

Well, that may be a problem. You see, Forza and GT both come out that month, and since they'll both more than likely work at launch, I won't have time to troll around internet forums.

I'm not expecting anything world breaking with FM7, much to my annoyance that's not how T10 works. But on the other hand it's far less annoying than releasing a 🤬 game and following it up by throwing everything they can into the second one and hoping it's not another piece of 🤬.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I feel ya, breyzipp. I have played most racing games that have come out since the early 90s. I remember the high-speed track on the original road and track NFS, driving my yellow italdesign cala.

Not too well, since the Cala wasn't in the first game.

I get what you're saying in a way. The genre doesn't lend itself to massive shake-ups. FM7 is going to be largely similar to FM6, but with dynamic time/weather and more cars. PCARS2 is going to be largely similar to PCARS1, but with seasons and more cars. GT Sport is... well, that actually doesn't really work. It'll have massively less cars, and by all accounts will be a very different experience from GT6. It'll be pretty familiar for the iRacing crowd, though.

Which makes me think they all are now aiming at different things. GT Sport is looking squarely at that iRacing approach, and Photomode stuff via Scapes. FM7 has stepped into the role the GT franchise has used to occupy, offering an interactive automotive encyclopedia of a mountain of cars you can't get elsewhere. PCARS2 wants to really give you that feeling of being part of a race weekend, at any point on the calendar.

FM v4.3

C'mon, there are plenty of valid criticisms to be levelled at any of the racing franchises that are releasing this year, but saying stuff like this is just lazy.

Would you object to someone referring to SMS' upcoming title as nothing more than Shift 4?
Or that GTS is GT5.2 Remastered?

 

[DeadHero]

Yeah FM7 sure disappoints, not enough interesting content compared to FM6. Skipping the title for sure. Maybe 2 years later I'll be more exited for FM8.

Looking forward to FH4 though since I enjoyed FH3.

But first PC2, OMG the hype and anticipation!

Not sure about content (if you're talking about cars and tracks), but what has been shown so far didn't really impress me either. After putting many hours into this franchise, that "more of the same" feeling doesn't help at all. On the other hand, the Horizon series still feel fresh, so I understand why you're looking forward to FH4.

PS: Another pad video, courtesy of @Ak1504

 

[UKMikey]

Can you pause your car irl when you have to pee or if your nose itches? Or if you miss your exit on the highway, can you restart your journey?

Let's look on the bright side. At least he seems to have eased off on the idea that true racing games shouldn't even have a single player mode. Baby steps

Oh my, why are people still playing with AI/singleplayer when the world is out there open for you to play with other human players online.. who needs AI, let them dump it altogether so that they can concentrate on more important things in the game Komsi komsi( swedish baby talk/pet language for come come ) and join us in the lobbies instead, we need more online players, forget the AI

I just don't understand this "I don't use this part of the game that most other people enjoy using, why don't they take it out" argument.

 

[Brend]

.. but it is so good with a pad, let me ask you this. Do you drive your irl car with a gamepad or a wheel? What should forza do especially great if it was a indeed a great car game worth of prices and awards?



...It is a game, relax

You make a point about how you drive a car in real life and then immediately follow up with a point about Forza being a game.

You basically answer your own question, Forza Motorsport is a game, it should run great on the most standard input device used with the console.

You can't just decide that wheel support is a huge thing that matters for GOTY status when the vast majority of players don't even have access to a wheel. Great support for an additional peripheral does go a long way for us as fans but the point stands - Forza is the most decorated racing series in recent gaming, wheel support or no wheel support. To say it isn't worthy isn't true, in my opinion.

 

[PJTierney]

Just a thought about release dates:

• On Xbox, Project CARS 2 launches just over 2 weeks before Forza Motorsport 7
• On PlayStation, Project CARS 2 launches about 4 weeks before Gran Turismo Sport
• On PC Project CARS 2 has no major competitor during its launch window.

On console, both of Project CARS 2's competitors are first-party titles, which typically launch with all of Sony and Microsoft's marketing push behind them.

While many of us have the freedom of time/funds to buy both games on a given console, there are also many, many people who will have to make a choice, and with the first-party titles being more "in your face" in terms of marketing I can see Project CARS 2 having a tough time.

That being said, Slightly Mad know that their game is more focused on the purists, and will likely be considered too challenging/complex for casual racers. The features they have added/announced play to that core group, so I can see the game having a dedicated fanbase no matter what platform it releases on.

However, on console it's going up against the 2 biggest racing franchises out there, who will suck up the majority of players. I predict that Project CARS 2 will do reasonably well in terms of sales, but will quickly have its multiplayer population drained by the first-party titles.

 

[allsupratt]

Not too well, since the Cala wasn't in the first game.

Ah man! Your right! I had to look it up, it was NFS2 SE. Sorry it's been 20 years hahahaha

Apologies for the 4.2 crack. I'm just over everyone attacking people for their opinions. As I stated before I'm not looking for the better game. I just want a change for a while. One thing that is clear is all 4 of the new games coming out is they all look really good. I'll most likely have them all at one point..

And while I say nothing real has changed with FM7 it could also be argued that if they scrapped the game and changed it all. We would miss a lot of the old tracks/cars/physics.. I get that.

On a better note. I bought another (3rd) power supply for the Xbone yesterday. Ill get a PS4 closer to game launches in hopes for a special edition. Wouldn't that be awesome? A Forza 6 special edition xbone next to a special edition GT PS4.. hehehe.. Would that be blasphemy?

 

[Pillo-san]

You make a point about how you drive a car in real life and then immediately follow up with a point about Forza being a game.

You basically answer your own question, Forza Motorsport is a game, it should run great on the most standard input device used with the console.

You can't just decide that wheel support is a huge thing that matters for GOTY status when the vast majority of players don't even have access to a wheel. Great support for an additional peripheral does go a long way for us as fans but the point stands - Forza is the most decorated racing series in recent gaming, wheel support or no wheel support. To say it isn't worthy isn't true, in my opinion.

Of course I can decide that. I am giving you all my perspective on the matter and how the little bubble/part of the world I live in think when it comes to car games. A well functioning wheel support is important for a car game that tries to emulate/mimic how it is to drive a fast and expensive car on track/road. Sure a game can be controlled by what ever peripheral you desire but it is with a wheel it comes to its own, just like when playing an aircraft/airplane game you want a joystick to immerse yourself in the game. After all you are trying to emulate how it would be to drive/fly that machine irl. So a good wheel support is essential because if it is bad it will only ruin your fantasy/immersion.

A game can be fun and interesting even without good wheel support but then it is just a casual fun arcade game and should not make any claims about how "sim-like" it is, nor should it by defended by fans in that department because it is not that kind of game and that is obvious when you use a wheel. The thing is, even old gt4 is better then forza6/fh3 when it comes to how the game feels with the wheel and that game is ancient. But I am open minded and if they have fixed the wheel issue I cant think it will not do poorly in sales with people that think like me. It will sell like hotcakes anyways, after all it has taken up the mantle from the GT series when it comes to car collecting and all that, but if the wheel feeling is not drastically improved than what good is a car game if it sucks with a wheel.

 

[breyzipp]

Personally I don't agree with the thought that a game without a wheel is by such an arcade game. You can play a game like Assetto Corsa or Project CARS with a controller from the in-car camera. You can also drive through the loop-de-loops in Forza Horizon 3 Hot Wheels expansion in chase camera view with a wheel. I hope you get my point. Personally I would never do the latter though, I really cannot stand chase cam with a wheel, that is the most bizarre combination for me.

What makes a game a sim or an arcade is IMO the entire immersion you get from the environment, the settings, the handling, the visuals, the camera, the sound, cars that can only be tuned but not unrealistically updated, etc... all that stuff. Poorly coded AI that cheats takes away from that, lagging multiplayer where players warp-jump take away from it. Fantasy liveries on cars take way from it. Yes a wheel does add more sim feeling than a controller but it's not a make or break factor IMO.

What personally contributed a lot to the sim feeling in PC1 for me the first time I played it was the helmet camera that looked into corners and the motion blur that comes with it. And there are WMD members on the PC forums that absolutely hate it. The racing calendar with it's race weekends also was a big deal for me, that was also the first time I came into contact with it after playing mostly GT and FM before. The race engineer that speaks to you through the headset, dynamic weather and the tyre strategy that comes with it. Championships with accumulating points from separate races, etc etc.

I think everyone has his own vision of what a sim is. And that vision also changes and adapts as you grow older, as you watch more motorsports on TV, heck probably when you have real life motorsport experience that will influence your vision of a sim as well.

And it also depends a lot on how well you know a motorsport. I came into contact and interested in rallycross via Dirt Rally and Dirt 4. I knew nothing about the sport aforehand but I watched 3 FIA WRX seasons already now. I had high anticipations for Dirt 4 since I knew the rules very well. And Dirt 4 did deliver in that aspect.

Project CARS 2 also comes with the full 2016 season IndyCar license but personally I'm not interested in IndyCar at all. So even if the game would not follow the IndyCar rules strictly, I would probably not even realize that. If I would be heavily into IndyCar, I would notice those things and it could take away from the overal immersion and sim-feeling for me. It's all about perception. That's also why people think Forza 7 is way better than Project CARS 2 (or why I think the opposite), all about perception.

 

[breyzipp]

Another thing where PCARS 2 (and even PCARS1) is miles ahead compared to Forza is all the options and customization in the menus.

For example: you want to adjust sound individually for your engine, opponent engine, pit engineering communication, environment, types, collisions track surface and all that? You can. Or 100% customization controller button mapping? You can. Turn off the helmet itself or motion blur effect or adjust how deep you look into corners in helmet camera? You can. Adjust the FOV individually for each camera type? You can.

 

[Northstar]

Another thing where PCARS 2 (and even PCARS1) is miles ahead compared to Forza is all the options and customization in the menus.

For example: you want to adjust sound individually for your engine, opponent engine, pit engineering communication, environment, types, collisions track surface and all that? You can. Or 100% customization controller button mapping? You can. Turn off the helmet itself or motion blur effect or adjust how deep you look into corners in helmet camera? You can. Adjust the FOV individually for each camera type? You can.

That's one thing that's always annoyed me about GT and Forza, especially when it comes to the HUD. I prefer only having the speedometer on screen and a rear view mirror/stage notes or lap/time counter when needed. Everything else tends to throw me off as I end up focusing too much on my time instead of just getting into a groove.

I must also say that the menu's are rather nice looking in PC2, SMS has done a far better job with the tile setup than T10 has so far (FM5 wasn't bad, FM6 is a cluttered mess, hopefully FM7 is better).

Edit: You apparently can toggle individual parts of the HUD in FM6, but it would be nice for more customization in the area you're addressing.

 

[Rob192005]

My two cent's is that I will simply buy every racing game going,no need for me to whine,if one game doesn't have this car or that track the other one will,I understand that not everyone can afford every game on every platform though.

 

[DeadHero]

Another thing where PCARS 2 (and even PCARS1) is miles ahead compared to Forza is all the options and customization in the menus.

For example: you want to adjust sound individually for your engine, opponent engine, pit engineering communication, environment, types, collisions track surface and all that? You can. Or 100% customization controller button mapping? You can. Turn off the helmet itself or motion blur effect or adjust how deep you look into corners in helmet camera? You can. Adjust the FOV individually for each camera type? You can.

The amount of options and stuff in this game is truly mind-blowing.

 

[breyzipp]

Please welcome the PCARS2 race engineer! Something the tuning newbies like yours truly will gratefully use a lot.

 

[RPM Bibblefish]

Please welcome the PCARS2 race engineer! Something the tuning newbies like yours truly will gratefully use a lot.

Nice, hopefully they've fixed the many, many, many bugs which ruined the first game that still haven't been resolved.

 

[PJTierney]

Please welcome the PCARS2 race engineer! Something the tuning newbies like yours truly will gratefully use a lot.

That's a good feature that more racing games need to make use of.

 

[Pillo-san]

To be honest, the more I see of PC2 the more it feels just like a improved PC1. Although I am always strucked buy how cool it looks when you drive in the dusk and night. But over all, I am more and more turned off by the more I see. All I really want is a game with pretty much all tracks from irl and all cars from irl and as realistic physic as possible, that cant be so hard accomplish, can it?

 

[breyzipp]

To be honest, the more I see of PC2 the more it feels just like a improved PC1. Although I am always strucked buy how cool it looks when you drive in the dusk and night. But over all, I am more and more turned off by the more I see. All I really want is a game with pretty much all tracks from irl and all cars from irl and as realistic physic as possible, that cant be so hard accomplish, can it?

It is indeed an improvement of PCARS1, but it is being improved in so many areas. The car list at launch jumped from 70 or something to almost 200, that is massive for a game that models the car's handling so detailed. Lots of tracks have been added. Rallycross made it in, ice racing made it in, Indycar got fully licensed. Multi-class racing got improved, this is to my knowledge the only game on consoles that does LMP1/2/3 and GT1/E/3/4/5 perfect, no unrealistic mixing of classes like Forza, Assetto or even PCARS1 did. And under the hood there are tons of improvements as well with livetrack 3.0, better handling with a revamped drivetrain and tyre model, better controller support. Career mode got improved, a race engineer made it into tuning, manual pitstops, penalties, formation and cooldown laps. The multiplayer area got improved with competitive racing licenses and a director feature. I'm probably forgetting a lot since the list of improvements is huge.

But each their own thing, if you don't like it then that's your choice. For me personally it's the most hyped serious racing game/sim ever.

 

[Pillo-san]

It is indeed an improvement of PCARS1, but it is being improved in so many areas. The car list at launch jumped from 70 or something to almost 200, that is massive for a game that models the car's handling so detailed. Lots of tracks have been added. Rallycross made it in, ice racing made it in, Indycar got fully licensed. Multi-class racing got improved, this is to my knowledge the only game on consoles that does LMP1/2/3 and GT1/E/3/4/5 perfect, no unrealistic mixing of classes like Forza, Assetto or even PCARS1 did. And under the hood there are tons of improvements as well with livetrack 3.0, better handling with a revamped drivetrain and tyre model, better controller support. Career mode got improved, a race engineer made it into tuning, manual pitstops, penalties, formation and cooldown laps. The multiplayer area got improved with competitive racing licenses and a director feature. I'm probably forgetting a lot since the list of improvements is huge.

But each their own thing, if you don't like it then that's your choice. For me personally it's the most hyped serious racing game/sim ever.

In PC1 you could mix cars/classes as you wanted so I do not care that much about the multiclass what you wanna call it(improvement?). The tracks seems so far like they were in pc1, and even if there are more of them I still think that they are about the same as in pc1, with some new dirt/ice tracks as a bonus. Same with the car lineup, was it only 70 cars in pc1? I thought that pretty much the car list that we got for pc2 mirrored that of pc1 with some new ones. It does not feel as the car line up has improved significantly to me at least, but I have been trying to avoid to watch too much about pc2 because of the fact that I just get turned of the more I watch, maybe I am being saturated/filled by the content before it is released?

To be honest I prefer it to be more quiet and harder to come by some facts about the game just like forza is doing right now. Lets hope SMS drops a bomb on us that surprises us all, becasue how good it is I just cant be hyped at all...

I hope we can get access to GTS through the PSnow or what the service is called because I will not buy a console when at least two great title such as PC2 and Forza 7 will be available on pc.

 

[DeadHero]

To me, the car list seems to be greatly improved, with even more solid and meaty motorsport categories, almost perfect GT3/GTE lineups with many modern prototypes and top tier brands like Ferrari, Porsche and Lamborghini finally included. And let's not forget about road cars, one of the weak points of the first title. There are more of them this time, even from manufacturers that were overlooked, like Aston Martin and Chevrolet. Sure, race cars are still under the spotlight, but It's nice to have more sports/super/hypercars to play with.

About tracks, those are brand new:

• Autodromo Internacional do Algarve (Portimao)
• Autodromo Nazionale Monza Historic
• Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps Historic
• Circuit of the Americas
• Daytona International Speedway (+ Rallycross)
• DirtFish
• Fuji Speedway
• Hockenheimring Rallycross
• Knockhill Racing Circuit (+ Rallycross)
• Indianapolis Motor Speedway
• Lånkebanen Rallycross
• Le Mans Karting International Circuit
• Lydden Hill Race Circuit
• Long Beach Street Circuit
• Mercedes-Benz Driving Events Ice Track
• Rallycross of Loheac
• Red Bull A1 Ring
• Sampala Ice Circuit
• Sportsland Sugo
• Texas Motor Speedway
• Wildcrest Rallycross

Doesn't look too bad to me. Plus, all the ones in PCARS1 are coming back and some of them were redone or improved (not sure which ones, though).
The only thing that doesn't really impress me are the sounds. Some are quite good, others.. not so much, but I'll wait to see (and hear) what the final build has to offer, before having my final judgement on them.

 

[breyzipp]

About the sounds (and graphics), remember what we now all see is WMD members flooding YouTube with dozens of gameplay videos. Some might have poor quality settings on their PC to begin with, YouTube compression might further decrease the quality of sound/video as it's just normal people uploading videos and not Bandai Namco or SMS themselves. So that's why we end up with some things looking/sounding good, and others less good, resulting in a bit of an inconsistent feeling.

It's still a really bold move of SMS to allow WMD to do this. On the opposite side, they could just as well do the same as Turn 10, keep everything silent and behind closed doors, have 100% control of what gameplay exactly is shown and make sure that such gameplay is shown as good as it gets. Turn 10 always builds the hype with fantastic looking video trailers but in the end after buying the game you start realizing how much it's similar to it's prequel and you feel a bit tricked by those trailers. Just watch some old trailers of FM5/FH2 and you know what I mean. They are masters in deception you know, the E3 trailer stating very bold "dynamic weather" but after the dust settles a few days later they tell you that it's on a selected number of maps only. Or all those fancy FH3 DLC trailers made with the developer build version (cars without drivers and hoods opened, people standing on parking lots), these are all things players cannot reproduce with the normal game. Of course all with the deceptive "all in-game footage", sure it's in-game footage... of the developer build yes.

No, I rather have it the SMS way, I rather see dozens of videos of actual REAL gameplay by people who are not affiliated with SMS (but are just part of the WMD community and basically payed upfront to help test/feedback the game). But I'm sure that is something that MS / Turn 10 will never ever do, they want to keep complete control of what exactly is shown until release day. Surely the night before release date there will be a livestream but by then all potential pre-orders have been placed already anyway.

Turn 10 lives a lot on the hype of the past, even with content as little as what was shown at E3, even with DLC or pre-order car packs not yet known already a lot of fans buy into the hype and place that pre-order. That's all fine by itself as long as they keep these fans happy as well. I still buy into all this for the FH series since every game has a completely new map and that is IMO the core of that game. We went from Colerado to Southern Europe to Australia over 3 games. I can't wait to see what the new location for FH4 will be to be honest and yes that is one Ultimate Edition pre-order as soon as the game is announced and I like what I see. But the FM series? That went pretty stale from FM5 to FM6 to FM7 in my opinion. Just the fact that all FM5 (2013) liveries and tunes are compatible with FM7 (2017) says enough already: there has been no real innovation in this game series over 4 years, period. Meanwhile PCARS1 tunes (2015) will not be compatible with PCARS 2 tunes (2017) because the underlying handling and tuning model has been changed significantly. Each car that made it from PCARS1 to PCARS2 has had it's handling model updated, sounds have been improved and the controller settings have been tweaked for each car individually (on top of the game-wide handling improvements). That my dear friends is innovation, is taking a series forward and not living in the past.

 

[Northstar]

I rather see dozens of videos of actual REAL gameplay by people who are not affiliated with SMS (but are just part of the WMD community and basically payed upfront to help test/feedback the game).

Considering the mess that was PC1's launch it was probably the smartest move to lift the NDA this early. Even if it's all PC the more gameplay footage showing a great product the better for all 3 versions.

But I'm sure that is something that MS / Turn 10 will never ever do, they want to keep complete control of what exactly is shown until release day. Surely the night before release date there will be a livestream but by then all potential pre-orders have been placed already anyway.

Sadly that's just the way large developers are, they really don't make any move that isn't calculated (SMS was never this open during their EA period for instance).

Although in the case of FM7 I'm guessing they were expecting large reveals from SMS and PD shortly after E3 so they're waiting for the buzz from that to die down before doing their own reveals.

 

[McLaren]

Just the fact that all FM5 (2013) liveries and tunes are compatible with FM7 (2017) says enough already: there has been no real innovation in this game series over 4 years, period.

You pick the stupidest things to nitpick. Carrying over liveries & tunes is now a con; nah, we'd rather all our community content creators continuously start over from scratch.

Every time you post in this section, it's borderline trolling with the way you act as if T10 is the only developer guilty of the "tactics" you accuse them of, whilst you continuously ignore people like @-Fred- & @Northstar who point out to you repeatedly how PCars 1's reception went with south real quick with bugs & glitches, and show hesitation of diving into the brown hole face-first like you have....

There are already comments regarding the concerns about the gamepad controls and the AI within the videos you'd "rather see dozens of". You'd be the among the first to rake T10 over the coals if you saw any flaws in user-posted videos before the official release with the way you've already thrown the developer under the bus for the E3 presentation.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

It's still a really bold move of SMS to allow WMD to do this. On the opposite side, they could just as well do the same as Turn 10, keep everything silent and behind closed doors, have 100% control of what gameplay exactly is shown and make sure that such gameplay is shown as good as it gets.

It's a unique move, but that's largely because PCARS is a unique proposition: it's crowd-funded.

So yes, allowing people with early access to do the advertising for SMS is a clever move: both GT and FM have the first-party bags of money to throw at advertising. And sim racers, arguably more than any other genre in gaming, crave "authenticity", so getting direct-feed footage over the same usual trailers is a good move.

There is the argument that it could over-saturate the market; that it won't feel "new" anymore by September. I'm not necessarily agreeing with that, but it is something that cropped up in some folks' thoughts on DiRT 4: the pre-release footage showed so much, there was nothing left to explore for some.

Or all those fancy FH3 DLC trailers made with the developer build version (cars without drivers and hoods opened, people standing on parking lots), these are all things players cannot reproduce with the normal game. Of course all with the deceptive "all in-game footage", sure it's in-game footage... of the developer build yes.

...you're not going to suggest precisely zero of the footage from SMS hasn't been via unique developer tools either, are you?

Everyone does it.

No, I rather have it the SMS way, I rather see dozens of videos of actual REAL gameplay by people who are not affiliated with SMS (but are just part of the WMD community and basically payed upfront to help test/feedback the game).

You're not mentioning a very important aspect here: these are folks who have already put money into the game and therefore have a vested interest in its success.

But I'm sure that is something that MS / Turn 10 will never ever do, they want to keep complete control of what exactly is shown until release day. Surely the night before release date there will be a livestream but by then all potential pre-orders have been placed already anyway.

Actually, the usual embargo time is about a week before a game's launch. In today's market, that's plenty of time to decide on pre-orders, I'd say!

Of course, there's also a bunch of footage taken from random people at every event that Forza appears at. That isn't the tight lid you're suggesting. Are people able to showcase every aspect of the latest developer build? Of course not — that's not available, because that's not how Microsoft/T10's business model is structured.

Turn 10 lives a lot on the hype of the past, even with content as little as what was shown at E3, even with DLC or pre-order car packs not yet known already a lot of fans buy into the hype and place that pre-order.

If you're correct, and Turn 10 coasts on the hype of the past, take a minute to ponder why that is. Like 'em or not, the Forza series has received consistently solid critical responses. Project CARS — and by extension, the Shift series — has a somewhat troubled history given the day one state of the game in 2015 on consoles. It was patched, sure, and it sounds like QA was a major focus of PCARS2. But it's completely understandable that some folks are wary.

Personally, I've never had too many problems with the game from a technical perspective. My main criticism with PCARS1 was the pad implementation on XB1. After buying the Complete Edition on PS4 a while back, I found it better, even more so once I borrowed @Wolfe's settings.

Just the fact that all FM5 (2013) liveries and tunes are compatible with FM7 (2017) says enough already: there has been no real innovation in this game series over 4 years, period. Meanwhile PCARS1 tunes (2015) will not be compatible with PCARS 2 tunes (2017) because the underlying handling and tuning model has been changed significantly.

You realize the tunes carryover strictly from a parts/settings perspective, right? And that an S800 tune in FM6 won't mean the car is an S800 in FM7 (or will even necessarily handle the same). I've transferred tunes from FM5 over to FM6 and wound up with wildly different cars. Yes, this means the underlying system is only an evolution of the previous one. That in itself is no bad thing, and huge sweeping changes just for the sake of huge sweeping changes is a horrible idea.

The livery carryover is a double-edged sword — one that PCARS admittedly dodges, since it doesn't even have a livery editor. I've been critical of the system in the past: it means there probably haven't been many changes, if any. But, livery design is a huge sub-community for Forza players, and I can see why T10 wouldn't want to force them to start over if it could be avoided.

Ideally, big changes could happen to the overall system without it necessarily meaning designs had to be scrapped. But T10 is between a rock and a hard place there. Luckily, it has one of the best livery editors in the genre, so that does help (though NFS of all games shows what could be improved).

Each car that made it from PCARS1 to PCARS2 has had it's handling model updated, sounds have been improved and the controller settings have been tweaked for each car individually (on top of the game-wide handling improvements). That my dear friends is innovation, is taking a series forward and not living in the past.

Whoa there cowboy, ease up on the blatant sales pitch. A lot of us are curious about the game, we just don't subscribe to this "one or the other" mentality.