FM7 vs. PCars 2 vs. GT:Sport

[DeadHero]

It's still a really bold move of SMS to allow WMD to do this. On the opposite side, they could just as well do the same as Turn 10, keep everything silent and behind closed doors, have 100% control of what gameplay exactly is shown and make sure that such gameplay is shown as good as it gets. Turn 10 always builds the hype with fantastic looking video trailers but in the end after buying the game you start realizing how much it's similar to it's prequel and you feel a bit tricked by those trailers. Just watch some old trailers of FM5/FH2 and you know what I mean. They are masters in deception you know, the E3 trailer stating very bold "dynamic weather" but after the dust settles a few days later they tell you that it's on a selected number of maps only. Or all those fancy FH3 DLC trailers made with the developer build version (cars without drivers and hoods opened, people standing on parking lots), these are all things players cannot reproduce with the normal game. Of course all with the deceptive "all in-game footage", sure it's in-game footage... of the developer build yes.

Or drivers coming in and out of the Mazda LMP2.

Just the fact that all FM5 (2013) liveries and tunes are compatible with FM7 (2017) says enough already: there has been no real innovation in this game series over 4 years, period

About tunes and liveries compatibility, I can see why Turn 10 cares about it but, at the same time, I've also seen plenty of people asking for more options like windshield decals, stage 4 upgrades and different colors and rim sets for front/rear wheels (something that gained even more interest when Slap Train shared DJLime's video about it a few months ago). I don't think that adding more options is going to break something. As long as the older ones are still available, FM5/FM6 tunes, designs and vinyl groups should be safe.

 

[bf3]

@Northstar,McLaren,SlipZtrEm - was just wondering if you having fun with that T10/FM hater?
Not sure if he does same on GT:S threads,as its where he should be because those 2 game are in same category,FM are on its own
He posts stuff which is simply ridiculous,but hey - its not a bad thing isnt?
That said,i came here for another doze of laugh and he didnt disappointed me
Such drivel he posts makes me wodner if its secret Ian Bell account

 

[McLaren]

@Northstar,McLaren,SlipZtrEm - was just wondering if you having fun with that T10/FM hater?
Not sure if he does same on GT:S threads,as its where he should be because those 2 game are in same category,FM are on its own
He posts stuff which is simply ridiculous,but hey - its not a bad thing isnt?
That said,i came here for another doze of laugh and he didnt disappointed me
Such drivel he posts makes me wodner if its secret Ian Bell account

My issue is how fast I'd get called a fanboy if I went into the PCars 2 or GT Sport forums and only post about why I think Forza is better whilst being overly critical with the other 2. I know the members in those sections don't appreciate it.

 

[PJTierney]

It seems like every single thread in this section ends up turning into this. Someone comes in to a thread that has little or no relevance to PCars 2 and proselytizes about how amazing PCars 2 will be or how they're not buying FM7 because of PCars 2 or whatever.

Let's keep that out of other threads. Here is your place to come talk about how much better PCars 2 will be or how you're going to pass on FM7 because of PCars 2 or whatever. Let the other threads talk about their respective titles, and keep the FM vs PCars talk centralized here.

Fancy changing the thread title to something less "baity"?

• Forza Motorsport 7 vs Project CARS 2
• Forza Motorsport 7 vs Project CARS 2 vs Gran Turismo Sport

The thread's in a good spot now, not as much bickering as the reason for its initial creation

Soon enough I guess we can start making a comparison table of features etc.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

@Northstar,McLaren,SlipZtrEm - was just wondering if you having fun with that T10/FM hater?
Not sure if he does same on GT:S threads,as its where he should be because those 2 game are in same category,FM are on its own
He posts stuff which is simply ridiculous,but hey - its not a bad thing isnt?
That said,i came here for another doze of laugh and he didnt disappointed me
Such drivel he posts makes me wodner if its secret Ian Bell account

I don't know how to make this any clearer: disagreeing with someone else does not give you the right to resort to name-calling and insults.

Fix your attitude.

 

[bf3]

Nothing wrong with my attitude - there is something wrong with that person,who has such unhealthy hate towards everything with names T10/Forza - its very clear from his posts,and others started noticing that as well.
When person has nothing to say and here purely to make his trollish mark on daily basis (again-this was already noticed by others) it just proves he needs to change attitude.
See smiles in my post? They there for a reason
Again - McLaren summed up it perfectly if my English lags with explanation

 

[HighSeasHoMastr]

Fancy changing the thread title to something less "baity"?

• Forza Motorsport 7 vs Project CARS 2
• Forza Motorsport 7 vs Project CARS 2 vs Gran Turismo Sport

The thread's in a good spot now, not as much bickering as the reason for its initial creation

Soon enough I guess we can start making a comparison table of features etc.

👍

 

[breyzipp]

👍

Cool, now people who don't plan to buy PC2 instead of FM7 are allowed to post again.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Cool, now people who don't plan to buy PC2 instead of FM7 are allowed to post again.

Still waiting for a response to any of this.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Get GT Sport for your PS Pro like I will be. Then get Forza Motorsport 7 for your Xbox One X and Project Cars 2 for your Xbox One X like I will be. As a console gamer, I can't imagine it any other way.

 

[breyzipp]

Still waiting for a response to any of this.

I gave my opinion, you gave yours, end of story?

I read it all though in case you wonder. But too long to reply to.

 

[Northstar]

end of story?

That depends on how seriously you want us to take you.

 

[PJTierney]

Just a thought about release dates:

• On Xbox, Project CARS 2 launches just over 2 weeks before Forza Motorsport 7
• On PlayStation, Project CARS 2 launches about 4 weeks before Gran Turismo Sport
• On PC Project CARS 2 has no major competitor during its launch window.

On console, both of Project CARS 2's competitors are first-party titles, which typically launch with all of Sony and Microsoft's marketing push behind them.

While many of us have the freedom of time/funds to buy both games on a given console, there are also many, many people who will have to make a choice, and with the first-party titles being more "in your face" in terms of marketing I can see Project CARS 2 having a tough time.

That being said, Slightly Mad know that their game is more focused on the purists, and will likely be considered too challenging/complex for casual racers. The features they have added/announced play to that core group, so I can see the game having a dedicated fanbase no matter what platform it releases on.

However, on console it's going up against the 2 biggest racing franchises out there, who will suck up the majority of players. I predict that Project CARS 2 will do reasonably well in terms of sales, but will quickly have its multiplayer population drained by the first-party titles.

Thinking about this from my own perspective:

• Forza is my favourite gaming series (even moreso than Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid, games which I wrote my university thesis on), so there is a very high chance of me getting Forza Motorsport 7.
• My time with the Gran Turismo Sport Closed Beta confirmed to me that that title is exactly what I want out of an online racing environment, and the handling on controller is as close as a PlayStation title is going to get to Forza.

I'll likely put 500-1000 hours into each of those titles over the next 2 years. So where does that leave Project CARS 2?

Right now I don't see how that will fit into my gaming plans at all, as one can only dedicate so much time to "getting good" at a game and fully experiencing it.

If the game was coming out in August or after Christmas I'd be more willing to try it out, as there's enough of a gap between it and the first-party titles for me to fully explore and enjoy it. As it stands it is getting overshadowed by 2 brands that I have enjoyed for well over a decade each, that are coming out "at the same time".

I can only see myself picking up Project CARS 2 if it turns out to be a game where I can get all Achievements/Trophies in about 50 hours, which is a shame as in any other year it would be a near insta-buy (assuming it's all above board from a QA standpoint). I wouldn't like to pick it up "late" either, as that means I'm behind the curve in terms of competitiveness Online, and the Multiplayer population would have diminished anyway.

Im sure it'll be a good game, but the release timing has killed off my potential interest. Now I know how Titanfall 2 fans must feel

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I gave my opinion, you gave yours, end of story?

I read it all though in case you wonder. But too long to reply to.

Er, it's no longer than your original post.

You're taking T10 to task for something it can't reasonably do (this wave of WMD member videos). These are also people with money invested in the game — of course they are going to show it in its best light. In fact, I believe one of the main tenets of the relaxed rules about posting videos is that they do not show any known glitches. Is that not controlling what's out there?

The main issue I see here is you holding each developer to different standards. You lament T10 for not continuing to evolve the livery editor, and while FM7 has brought time/weather to the table, you dismiss it as a distinct non-innovation because it doesn't meet your own standards. You consider FM7 essentially the same game as FM5, despite it adding weather, improving the physics, bumping up the fields in a race by 50%, and massively increasing content. You consider PCARS2 a huge step-change, when it's added seasons (it already had weather), improved the physics, and increased content.

By your logic, any livery editor that the PCARS franchise includes down the road, so long as it doesn't match what's out there already, is a non-innovation.

Since the thread has expanded in scope, I'd also love to hear what you believe is truly innovative about GT Sport.

Thinking about this from my own perspective:

• Forza is my favourite gaming series (even moreso than Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid, games which I wrote my university thesis on), so there is a very high chance of me getting Forza Motorsport 7.
• My time with the Gran Turismo Sport Closed Beta confirmed to me that that title is exactly what I want out of an online racing environment, and the handling on controller is as close as a PlayStation title is going to get to Forza.

I'll likely put 500-1000 hours into each of those titles over the next 2 years. So where does that leave Project CARS 2?

Right now I don't see how that will fit into my gaming plans at all, as one can only dedicate so much time to "getting good" at a game and fully experiencing it.

If the game was coming out in August or after Christmas I'd be more willing to try it out, as there's enough of a gap between it and the first-party titles for me to fully explore and enjoy it. As it stands it is getting overshadowed by 2 brands that I have enjoyed for well over a decade each, that are coming out "at the same time".

Right now I can only see myself picking up Project CARS 2 if it turns out to be a game where I can get all Achievements/Trophies in about 50 hours, which is a shame as in any other year it would be a near insta-buy (assuming it's all above board from a QA standpoint).

Wouldn't the easier solution be to just get PCARS2 at some point in 2018 then? No matter how good the game will be on day one, it'll undoubtedly be even better after months of evolution, and likely cheaper too!

It's going to be very fascinating to see which titles people buy if they don't plan on getting all three. All three hit different things that appeal to me, so I don't see how I can hope to split my time between them.

 

[PJTierney]

@SlipZtrEm

Edited this in while you were responding:

I wouldn't like to pick it up "late" either, as that means I'm behind the curve in terms of competitiveness Online, and the Multiplayer population would have diminished anyway.

Unless I play a game purely for Single Player or local Multiplayer, I prefer to play it during the launch period as that's when Multiplayer is its busiest.

 

[breyzipp]

Er, it's no longer than your original post.

Haha yeah true but you still replied out of free will. But ok fair enough I'll quickly skim though both your posts and give my opinion on some things.

It's a unique move, but that's largely because PCARS is a unique proposition: it's crowd-funded.

So yes, allowing people with early access to do the advertising for SMS is a clever move: both GT and FM have the first-party bags of money to throw at advertising. And sim racers, arguably more than any other genre in gaming, crave "authenticity", so getting direct-feed footage over the same usual trailers is a good move.

There is the argument that it could over-saturate the market; that it won't feel "new" anymore by September. I'm not necessarily agreeing with that, but it is something that cropped up in some folks' thoughts on DiRT 4: the pre-release footage showed so much, there was nothing left to explore for some.

& You're not mentioning a very important aspect here: these are folks who have already put money into the game and therefore have a vested interest in its success.

uhuh, agree and agree But that crowd-funding for WMD2 is different than WMD1 though, I believe I even read in the long Ian Bell Q&A here that PC2 isn't even crowd-funded anymore or at least not as heavy as PC1. I don't know the ins and outs though as I'm not in WMD2 myself.
Note that SMS/Bandai Namco do have marketing budgets as well, but probably not the scope of MS/Sony.
I'm also curious how the remaining 2 months will be filled. All cars and tracks are known, gameplay videos are out. They have been doing their marketing very clever though with in Feb the ice racing reveal, April the Rallycross, May the Indycar license and June E3. I believe these "built by drivers" series were supposed to be 7 episodes so there is still stuff to come. And they could do so much more articles just on the game interface, career mode, manual pitstops etc. I'm sure it won't go silent towards release but I get your Dirt 4 point as I was following that game a lot as well 2 months before release.

...you're not going to suggest precisely zero of the footage from SMS hasn't been via unique developer tools either, are you?

Everyone does it.

True that, they all make shiny videos but still with the Turn 10 ones I have a feeling they are always a bit more fabricated. The SMS trailers don't show much more than fast segments of actually cars racing, you could argue that the fly-by camera is fabricated, but the rest looks like possible in-game footage. We don't see animated characters walking bold in style jumping dramatically in/out LMP cars for example.

Actually, the usual embargo time is about a week before a game's launch. In today's market, that's plenty of time to decide on pre-orders, I'd say!

Of course, there's also a bunch of footage taken from random people at every event that Forza appears at. That isn't the tight lid you're suggesting. Are people able to showcase every aspect of the latest developer build? Of course not — that's not available, because that's not how Microsoft/T10's business model is structured.

Even then it's all still maintained and controller by Turn 10 though. Looking at FH3 last year there was this Fulton playthrough with the dude from XBox On and then the day before release the Mechberg stream playthrough from the Turn 10 studios. There haven't been normal people streaming the game or making videos prior to release date on their home systems.

If you're correct, and Turn 10 coasts on the hype of the past, take a minute to ponder why that is. Like 'em or not, the Forza series has received consistently solid critical responses. Project CARS — and by extension, the Shift series — has a somewhat troubled history given the day one state of the game in 2015 on consoles. It was patched, sure, and it sounds like QA was a major focus of PCARS2. But it's completely understandable that some folks are wary.

Personally, I've never had too many problems with the game from a technical perspective. My main criticism with PCARS1 was the pad implementation on XB1. After buying the Complete Edition on PS4 a while back, I found it better, even more so once I borrowed @Wolfe's settings.

Agree 100% with both. And on the announcement event in Feb 2017 fixing those issues from PC1 (in PC2) was what was on top of the presentation list. SMS know very well they made a mistake with PC1, maybe underestimating the whole package a bit. But I honestly believe they learn from the past, Ian Bell even posted here on GTP when people were asking for a release date months ago that he would not announce a release date but would first want to make sure that all the bugs got ironed out. Sept 22 is already fixed a while ago now so I think SMS is confident they can get it all worked out in time.

You realize the tunes carryover strictly from a parts/settings perspective, right? And that an S800 tune in FM6 won't mean the car is an S800 in FM7 (or will even necessarily handle the same). I've transferred tunes from FM5 over to FM6 and wound up with wildly different cars. Yes, this means the underlying system is only an evolution of the previous one. That in itself is no bad thing, and huge sweeping changes just for the sake of huge sweeping changes is a horrible idea.

The livery carryover is a double-edged sword — one that PCARS admittedly dodges, since it doesn't even have a livery editor. I've been critical of the system in the past: it means there probably haven't been many changes, if any. But, livery design is a huge sub-community for Forza players, and I can see why T10 wouldn't want to force them to start over if it could be avoided.

Ideally, big changes could happen to the overall system without it necessarily meaning designs had to be scrapped. But T10 is between a rock and a hard place there. Luckily, it has one of the best livery editors in the genre, so that does help (though NFS of all games shows what could be improved).

Tunes and paints are upwards (backwards?) compatible between every Forza series on XBox One. Yes the PI value in the end will be different but all upgrade parts in the tune, all tuning sliders and settings are exactly the same. Nothing is changed, enhanced, innovated or improved, it's the entire same set of variables since Q4 2013 and into FM7 (and most likely FH4). One could argue that nothing needs to be changed, but IMO the handling model is more simplistic than PC1 or Assetto. One could argue if that's a bad thing. It's sure keeping the series stagnant in that aspect. What really annoys me personally in Forza is that transmission, ABS, ESP, TC are game-wide generic assist settings instead of realistic settings per car. If all those assists settings would have a "REAL" setting so that it would adapt to the car you are driving then it would already go a long way into making me want to play Forza again. If then the Modern GT Racing was split up in the real racing series (GT1/2/3/4/5/GT500/ST) that would be a second big step. I feel Turn 10 either doesn't care or thinks we don't care, I for one care A LOT about those things. Even if Forza is not a sim with sim handling, for sure its not too much to ask to at least have somewhat realistic racing conditions.
About livery editors then, there are some people in the Forza community that make some absolutely fantastic liveries but me, as an big fan of everything authentic, I don't use those. I which you could browse through my FM5/6 & FH2/3 garages and you will see that apart from some Turn 10 gifted cars I use all stock manufacturer paints and liveries. So a livery editor in PCARS... I wouldn't even want that since you start seeing too many fantasy liveries on track then, taking away that authentic feel. But again, in Forza I understand there is a big community for that.

Whoa there cowboy, ease up on the blatant sales pitch. A lot of us are curious about the game, we just don't subscribe to this "one or the other" mentality.

Very well, but it was just me expressing how I'm feeling.

reply 2 incoming...

 

[breyzipp]

You're taking T10 to task for something it can't reasonably do (this wave of WMD member videos). These are also people with money invested in the game — of course they are going to show it in its best light. In fact, I believe one of the main tenets of the relaxed rules about posting videos is that they do not show any known glitches. Is that not controlling what's out there?

About WMD2, see previous reply. About not posting videos with glitches, given the volatile nature of the PC1 day one situation and SMS now releasing a second new game, I think it's understandable. Heck the game is still 2 months in development polishing up and things like that. A video earlier this week showed a Monaco tunnel being completely wet on a rain race over there, and that starts leading a second life already on YouTube like "loooool is this live track 3.0 raining through tunnels???" when it's simply a known issue SMS will fix before release. Another bug I saw that accidentally showed up was the "slow down to 60 km/h pitlane speed" when the driver was doing just laps on that track, so the trigger line for that message was not in the start of the pitlane but on the track. If the criticality or state of the PC2 bugs has already come down to that kind of bugs (low impact) then I think after those 2 more months of polish the game will have a smooth release. But again, I was not playing PC1 since release (bought it aug 2015) so if the day one players are very sceptical about PC2 releasing and prefer to wait and see, by all means that's probably the best thing to do.

Sidenote - it's still better to let WMD2 players release gameplay footage with the notification to not display any bugs, than to not have anything released at all though. T10 now finally started with their car list reveal and hopefully next month we still get an FH3 DLC pack.

The main issue I see here is you holding each developer to different standards. You lament T10 for not continuing to evolve the livery editor, and while FM7 has brought time/weather to the table, you dismiss it as a distinct non-innovation because it doesn't meet your own standards. You consider FM7 essentially the same game as FM5, despite it adding weather, improving the physics, bumping up the fields in a race by 50%, and massively increasing content. You consider PCARS2 a huge step-change, when it's added seasons (it already had weather), improved the physics, and increased content.

By your logic, any livery editor that the PCARS franchise includes down the road, so long as it doesn't match what's out there already, is a non-innovation.

About livery editor, see previous reply.
About weather in FM, they are just running behind the industry. Only in 2015 did they bring night and day racing.... on some of the maps. Only now will they bring dynamic weather..... on some of the maps. And the most fun part about dynamic weather and endurance racing is also changing tyre strategies but so far no word that anything of that will be in FM7. I'm really curious how this entire dynamic wet/dry weather.... on some of the maps will work with just 1 generic compound. Will cars just ride on intermediates the entire race? We don't know. Since they want Forza to cater to all people, young and old, painters, photographers, tuners and racers I would not get my hopes up too high to see more than just 1 type of tyre on the dynamic weather maps, which would be missing the ball again IMO.

PCARS 2 is a huge step up yes. I should start placing a new feature list somehere so I can copy/paste from there.
> 187 cars at launch (PC1 had 65)
> livetrack 3.0
> snow/ice racing, dirt/mud racing, dynamic puddles, sun/shade influencing track temperature, car driving lines influencing driving lines. and yes, seasons to make the tracks/environment look different.
> manual pitstops, > animated pit crews
> formation laps, > cooldown laps
> improved car sound for all cars
> controller settings fineuned for each car individually
> improved tyre model (even animated tyre flex now)
> improved drivetrain model
> realistic car classes (no more GTE/GT3 together as PC1, no more weird LMP3 cars but real ones now)
> rallycross
> full 2016 indycar license
> 52 real geographical locations now in the game (PC1 had 35)
> race engineer
> improved controller interface
> ........ no doubt forgetting lots of stuff again
Seriously, you gotta admit the new feature list from PC2 over PC1 is way, WAY bigger than FM7 over FM6.

Since the thread has expanded in scope, I'd also love to hear what you believe is truly innovative about GT Sport.

The difference between GT:S and GT6 will also be MUCH bigger than between FM7 and FM6. Will I play GT:S? No, I personally don't like all the Vision GT nonsense and the fictional spec cars like rallying Ford Mustangs, plus the game has no dynamic weather (& diff. tyres) anymore and the track count is too low IMO. But if people are enthusiastic about it after playing the beta, by all means I'm happy for them.

 

[Earth]

FM7 v PCARS 2 v GTS is difficult because they all bring to the table something Im looking for

- FM7 has the massive quantity and quality car list I've always wanted

- PCARS 2 is the highly customizable deep racing sim I've always wanted

- GTS has the online career I've always wanted

All 3 are worth owning, but if I were to rank them it would go like this

1. PCARS 2 (PC version)
2. FM7
3. GTS

I've been wanting to build a PC for a few years now, hopefully it finally comes together this fall and I can get PCARS 2 and FM7 on PC

 

[Northstar]

Seriously, you gotta admit the new feature list from PC2 over PC1 is way, WAY bigger than FM7 over FM6.

It is indeed bigger, but at what cost?

T10 tends to do more gradual improvements in order to maintain a pretty good level of performance. This can and does get annoying at times, but on the flip side I've never had to wait on a patch just for a Forza game to be playable.

SMS on the other hand seems to be trying to cram even more things onto a foundation that was already shaky with PC1's load. If they've found a way to make the game run smoothly on consoles like it does on PC than great, it will change racing games forever, but until I see that it's hard to really get excited for it.

 

[McLaren]

The difference between GT:S and GT6 will also be MUCH bigger than between FM7 and FM6.

Citation required.

Because I was not aware someone on the forum already had the final copy of both games to share such a statement.

 

[Dsavage27]

I'm gonna laugh if T10 announces so many features that it fully defeats both PC2 and GTsport...you never know. The only downfall so far I see on forza 7 is the weather though it's way ahead of GTsport, it's nothing compared to project cars 2 fully dynamic system. The track roster though I was hoping it would be 40+ as long as they cut out a few of the boring, less used tracks from forza 6 and replaced them with more decent ones then I don't see too much of a problem. That's it though, I see forza 7 doing well in mostly every other area.

 

[FordGTGuy]

The difference between GT:S and GT6 will also be MUCH bigger than between FM7 and FM6. Will I play GT:S?

With the amount of stuff removed for GT Sport, I agree.

It is indeed bigger, but at what cost?

T10 tends to do more gradual improvements in order to maintain a pretty good level of performance. This can and does get annoying at times, but on the flip side I've never had to wait on a patch just for a Forza game to be playable.

SMS on the other hand seems to be trying to cram even more things onto a foundation that was already shaky with PC1's load. If they've found a way to make the game run smoothly on consoles like it does on PC than great, it will change racing games forever, but until I see that it's hard to really get excited for it.

It's not even worth arguing any more, if you bring up the clear performance reasoning they will just say that they never noticed performance issues.

 

[doblocruiser]

I don't own a XBOX anymore so my choice is limited to PCARS2 and GTS. With those choices in mind I would PCARS2 for its content and rich features and I would pick GTS for the brand Peugeot that is well presented.

If I would have owned a XBOX I still would choose PCARS2 over GTS and FM7. The carlist in FM7 is second to none but I prefer the more gritty feeling of PCARS2. I am sure all 3 will provide good fun it it will come down to what you are looking for. However GTS finds itself in the most troublesome situation because it seriously lacking content (tracks) and the less than average previous 2 itteratons. I find it great that PD is so positive about their new game but I can't see the reason behind it. 4 years of development, I would expect a killer first party game which wows me on all fronts but once more it "seems" a less than average package which would leave my list as follows:

1. Project Cars 2
2. Forza Motorsport 7
3. Gran Turismo Sport

 

[breyzipp]

It is indeed bigger, but at what cost?

T10 tends to do more gradual improvements in order to maintain a pretty good level of performance. This can and does get annoying at times, but on the flip side I've never had to wait on a patch just for a Forza game to be playable.

SMS on the other hand seems to be trying to cram even more things onto a foundation that was already shaky with PC1's load. If they've found a way to make the game run smoothly on consoles like it does on PC than great, it will change racing games forever, but until I see that it's hard to really get excited for it.

What cost? It's fantastic that so many new features make it into PCARS2, if it comes at a cost or not we will see September 22nd. Until then you can be damn right I will be very excited about all those features and I have every reason to be so.

I give it to Turn 10 for their smooth releases though (on consoles), hardly ever a problem. But if (smaller) problems occur they don't really get fixed soon either. I mean since the launch of FH3 there have been many problems with Forzathon events for more than half a year, how many times have we seen posts on the forum for a Forzathon event for car class X or Y and then also a list of "but it's not working for the following cars from this class"? I lost count to be honest. And let's not mention the fiasco either of gifting cars out that people can't use or delete due to the infamous "marketplace error" which only recently got fixed (I already bug reported that in October by the way).
And Turn 10 and their PC support reputation... hmmm.... They aren't saints either you know, masters of ignoring issues or only fixing them many months later. Even today the list of FH3 issues on PC is extensive, just check out their forum: https://forums.forzamotorsport.net/turn10_topics100_Support.aspx
But again, having played FM5/FM6/FH1/FH2/FH3 on XBox One myself, I agree with you that the XBox launches of Turn 10 / PlayGround games are usually really smooth and without issues. And where Turn 10 really shines IMO is giving their games a very high level of polish feeling.

Citation required.

Because I was not aware someone on the forum already had the final copy of both games to share such a statement.

I have played both GT6 and FM6 extensively in the past so I know very well what those games are and where their successors come from. There is enough information out there on what GT:S and FM7 will be when they release and it's honestly not hard to see that GT:S is a much bigger evolution from GT6 than FM7 is from FM6. But that makes sense as well since GT6 is a previous-gen console game from late 2013 so PD has been working at least 4 years on GT:S already.

I'm gonna laugh if T10 announces so many features that it fully defeats both PC2 and GTsport...you never know. The only downfall so far I see on forza 7 is the weather though it's way ahead of GTsport, it's nothing compared to project cars 2 fully dynamic system. The track roster though I was hoping it would be 40+ as long as they cut out a few of the boring, less used tracks from forza 6 and replaced them with more decent ones then I don't see too much of a problem. That's it though, I see forza 7 doing well in mostly every other area.

Just look at past Forza announcements, E3 is where the big bang happens and all the major features of the new game are announced. Sure around Gamescom and closer to release some minor things are still revealed (like mod cards for FM6, those were announced after E3) but those are not the big features. Let's face the music, 4K 60 fps HDR, dynamic weather (on some maps ), 300 driver suits, a restyled career mode and 700+ cars are the main features of the new title. And of course some things that are taken over from FH3 like the auction house and widebody kits but I think about everyone was already expecting that anyway.

I'm never a fan of cutting tracks, 30+ ain't bad if you look at some other games on consoles like Assetto Corsa or GT:S. Of course it's nowhere near the 60+ locations in PCARS 2. Turn 10 designs their map beautifully though (I absolutely love the scenery at night at Yas Marina with the hotel light animations even though every Forza fan seems to hate that map ) and having Mugello and Suzuka in sure is nice. But what absolutely irritates me are Turn 10's "in-your-face" measurements to deal with corner cutting. I mean the "slowgrass" in FM5 was annoying as hell, the fictional tyre barriers all over the maps in FM6 really take away from the immersion. What's next for FM7? Armco barriers on the inside of every corner? I mean can't they honestly leave the track as authentic as possible and fix the corner cutting issues in a normal way? About every other developer seems to manage doing that just fine without ruining the track itself!

For the record, even if Forza 7 would have full dynamic weather and time of day on all the maps, it would pretty much be useless without different tyre compounds as well. Changing tyre/fuel strategies in changing weather conditions is exactly the point of the dynamic weather system in the first place. I first came into contact with this type of gameplay in GT6 and it raised the bar of what I long for in a racing game quite a bit. I wouldn't have it any other way anymore.

 

[DeadHero]

About weather in FM, they are just running behind the industry. Only in 2015 did they bring night and day racing.... on some of the maps. Only now will they bring dynamic weather..... on some of the maps. And the most fun part about dynamic weather and endurance racing is also changing tyre strategies but so far no word that anything of that will be in FM7. I'm really curious how this entire dynamic wet/dry weather.... on some of the maps will work with just 1 generic compound. Will cars just ride on intermediates the entire race? We don't know.

Probably just like in Forza 6: rain tires on until the end of the race, even with dynamic weather. After all, the pit stops are once again handled automatically by the game, as showcased by AR12Gaming.

It's going to be very fascinating to see which titles people buy if they don't plan on getting all three. All three hit different things that appeal to me, so I don't see how I can hope to split my time between them.

I'm not interested in GT Sport, so my choice will be between Forza 7 and Project CARS 2 (just one, because work and family leave very little time for gaming). Right now CARS 2 tickles my interest more than Forza 7 for some of the reasons already mentioned by @breyzipp (proper multiclass racing, rallycross, environments that feel more alive et cetera). That being said, I'll keep my eyes on both in the following months and try to gather as much infos as possible before deciding which one I'm going to pick (probably not at launch).

 

[430_Riviera]

> controller settings fineuned for each car individually

I keep seeing you mention this, what does it mean? Do you know what it means? Does it mean the settings are fudged to hide gaps in the physics engine?

For me, it's weird that each car has tweaked control input settings on an individual basis. To me it just makes it look like entering car data in the physics engine simply doesn't get the job done and they have to get in there and alter controller parameters manually. I'm pretty certain that although Forza's model maybe imperfect, the physics are genuinley based on the real life construction, weight, grip, aero and such characteristics being entered into the engine.

The engine not being able to replicate genuine handling would certainly explain the tragedy that was pcars1. If they have to alter controller settings to make the cars act like... Cars, then it don't bode well.

And before you ask, yes I am pro Forza, i love the game and it's many iterations. I also got stung by Pcars1 and fully distrust anything coming from the developers and *that engine* until it is proven not to be an absolute shower of poop.

Face it, Forza has an infinitely better track record and a much better rep than Pcars. What the developers did by crowdfunding and releasing a buggy mess, then very quickly move on to trying to crowdfund a second one left a bad taste in many peoples mouths. Whether or not they ended up getting bailed by a publisher or not in the end for pcars2, you have to believe they would have honestly tried to extort yet more cash from people based on fake promises and vapourware.

Pcars made it's bed, now it has to lie in it. It will be difficult for it to get out again, I'm certainly not the only person to feel like this.

 

[McLaren]

I have played both GT6 and FM6 extensively in the past so I know very well what those games are and where their successors come from. There is enough information out there on what GT:S and FM7 will be when they release and it's honestly not hard to see that GT:S is a much bigger evolution from GT6 than FM7 is from FM6. But that makes sense as well since GT6 is a previous-gen console game from late 2013 so PD has been working at least 4 years on GT:S already.

I was not aware T10 had fully released on the features of the game at E3.

Again, enlighten the rest of us of all the features FM7 will have.

BTW, your little statement about track authenticity is exactly the one sided bias you've been called out for. I can already tell you where PCars 2 is lacking on authenticity for COTA alone if you're gonna bitch and nit pick barriers.

 

[DeadHero]

I keep seeing you mention this, what does it mean? Do you know what it means? Does it mean the settings are fudged to hide gaps in the physics engine? For me, it's weird that each car has tweaked control input settings on an individual basis. To me it just makes it look like entering car data in the physics engine simply doesn't get the job done and they have to get in there and alter controller parameters manually.

Car data put into a physics engine and pad settings are two completely different things. Changing these values do not alter the physics model, just like choosing different FFB settings (for wheel users) doesn't affect it. These values have an impact on the way the game register the steering inputs (read: movement on the analog stick) and @IanBell said they've reworked the pad input filters in order to make it better. He also said they were influenced a lot by their "competitors": pretty sure one of them is Forza Motorsport, since the pad experience has always been good out of the box.

 

[Northstar]

What cost? It's fantastic that so many new features make it into PCARS2, if it comes at a cost or not we will see September 22nd.

We already know the cost though, the frame rate will be inconsistent. PC1 had a hard enough time trying to get 60FPS, so I have a hard time seeing PC2 not struggling in that area as well considering everything they're adding.



To you it may not be a big issue, but to me an inconsistent frame rate really hurts a game. I would much rather have a locked frame rate, whether it's 30 or 60 isn't a problem. Hopefully SMS will give us the option to lock it to 30FPS on console.

Until then you can be damn right I will be very excited about all those features and I have every reason to be so.

I'm excited as well, but I'm also being cautious about it. I'll certainly be paying close attention to how it performs on launch and make my decision than.

And Turn 10 and their PC support reputation... hmmm.... They aren't saints either you know, masters of ignoring issues or only fixing them many months later.

I haven't played the PC version of either Forza that's been released there so I haven't followed how well they work. Still, even with the 2 questionable releases they have a far better track record than SMS has.

 

[FordGTGuy]

While Horizon 3 on PC had it's problems, mostly seems to be due to the game being built for the memory system of Xbox One and just ported to PC.

Forza 6 Apex is a good release and Forza 7 is being built for PC.