- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
Ford planning LeMans Return + Ford GT revival
- Thread starter Slash
- 824 comments
- 74,529 views
- 4,543
- Bay Area, CA
- Zenith113
The diffuser is as aggressive as it is because aero is huge in Le Mans. The Mulsanne straight is where seconds can be gained or lost so low drag is desired. On the other hand, the last 1/4 of the track (Porsche curves) and the chicanes that punctuate the Mulsanne straight punish poor corner exit, so rear grip is desired.
The straights are why we don't see massive wings. The curves are why the teams still want low speed downforce. Normally downforce = drag so a balance must be achieved.
Diffusers are great because they provide good downforce with comparatively little drag. A wing with the same downforce would slow the car on the Mulsanne. Ford is trying to plant the rear tires through those chicanes and the Porsche curves while staying slippery for the straight. Smart move.
The straights are why we don't see massive wings. The curves are why the teams still want low speed downforce. Normally downforce = drag so a balance must be achieved.
Diffusers are great because they provide good downforce with comparatively little drag. A wing with the same downforce would slow the car on the Mulsanne. Ford is trying to plant the rear tires through those chicanes and the Porsche curves while staying slippery for the straight. Smart move.
- 11,802
- Marin County
I wonder what would happen if they opened up the Mulsanne again? I feel like high downforce would still be very critical as half the track is high speed corners, so I doubt the speeds on the big straight would be too much higher than they are now. I would love to see a full Mulsanne again.
- 14,656
- The UK
- JASON_ROCKS1998
- JR98 GAMING
I think it could be more a thing of safety. That long a straight at the speeds those cars could reach would be insane.
- 11,802
- Marin County
Well the LMP1 cars sure are extremely powerful, probably more powerful than C1 was back in the 80s. But they also have a LOT more downforce and drag. A C1 would be faster in top end I think. So if LMP1 couldn't exceed 215mph or so, then I don't see how it would be more dangerous than it is now.
- 14,656
- The UK
- JASON_ROCKS1998
- JR98 GAMING
But imagine a collision between two cars going 215MPH.
- 4,543
- Bay Area, CA
- Zenith113
I think the two chicanes in the Mulsanne are almost as important as the entire high speed section at the end of the track. Anytime someone hits traffic or messes up a corner exit at the chicanes they get left in the dust on the straight. If the chicanes were removed I think a big motivator for downforce would be gone. I wouldn't be surprised if wings came off some LMP1 cars.
- 11,802
- Marin County
My argument is that they are already doing that kind of speed. It might actually be safer if it was just a straight without the two major braking zones to cause the cars to bunch up.
- 14,656
- The UK
- JASON_ROCKS1998
- JR98 GAMING
Also, think about the teams trying to give cars less drag and perhaps trying to get their cars closer to 250MPH if the chicanes were removed.
- 11,802
- Marin County
I suppose that would likely happen. It would still be awesome to see a full Mulsanne at the 24 hours.
- 14,656
- The UK
- JASON_ROCKS1998
- JR98 GAMING
Remember those GT1 cars of the late 90's? Especially the CLK GTR, those things hit 240MPH! I get there are probably power and weight restrictors on the cars now (The GT1 cars had 650HP) but it would be easy for manufacturers to get carried away.
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
Without chicanes the speeds are higher and accidents like this become even worse. As it is, spectating along Mulsanne is almost totally forbidden due to the high risk of death in case of an accident.
- 14,656
- The UK
- JASON_ROCKS1998
- JR98 GAMING
This is the kind of thing that shouldn't happen again at LeMans. The chicanes must stay...
Without chicanes the speeds are higher and accidents like this become even worse. As it is, spectating along Mulsanne is almost totally forbidden due to the high risk of death in case of an accident.
- 15,381
- TRAPPIST-1g
- ProjectWHaT
Or we can have the teams require to create a car with more downforce and innovate in the aerodynamic category.
But the chicane way is definitely safer.
- 7,601
- Exorcet
- OE Exorcet
Having the full straight doesn't necessarily mean the cars have to do full speed. Rules are powerful. You could require the cars to basically drive around with airbrakes on, which would slow them down and also provide good defense against lifting off the track. Unlike wings, large billboard spoilers can work forwards and backwards. They would greatly increase turbulence, though they may take less of a performance hit than more efficient aero devices and you'll also tend to disrupt the natural lift that occurs over the driver's compartment.
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
Um dude...that was like 20 YEARS AFTER THEY ADDED THE CHICANES.
The Merc's in 99' were just an aerodynamic mess.
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
- 12,122
- Liverpool
- CARBOYXJR
That can't physically happen.
The CLR and one Porsche flip was due to the inherent stagnation pressure in GT1 cars at the time, because they put so much into the rake angle. That cars are a lot different now, not including the massive holes they have that allow them to alleviate any pressure that would cause such a flip.
Without chicanes the speeds are higher and accidents like this become even worse. As it is, spectating along Mulsanne is almost totally forbidden due to the high risk of death in case of an accident.
They really, really couldn't.
I like the chicanes, but they don't make top speeds any lower. All P1s essentially top out between each one.
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
Put it this way: without chicanes, speeds would be faster. If speeds are faster, accidents become worse. It's as simple as that.
- 12,122
- Liverpool
- CARBOYXJR
But as I said, the P1s top out between each chicane anyway, give or take 2/3mph. You would have no bigger accident than is possible today, and it wouldn't be an issue of taking off, rather getting tagged into the wall by a GT or P2 as you went in to approach Mulsanne. At 180mph (GTE or P2) or 210mph (P1), it'll hurt either way.
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
The gearing of the P1's maxes out at the chicanes, while they were originally for speed reduction, they're now adding zing to that part of the circuit. Take out the chicanes and they'd be on the rev limiter the whole way.
- 11,802
- Marin County
They might add some zing in terms of two additional brake/acceleration zones, but they also take a way a LOT of zing by eliminating the Mulsanne kink, which was an incredible corner. The long straight is a thing of the past. Only the Nurburgring's is left.
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
True, but in retrospect it's been gone since the late 70's so it's not like it's been a recent thing. And at the same time, the Ring's top class ATM is GT3, and since GT's are geared with only a 180mph (roughly) top speed it's not in danger of being broken up. Plus it has a massive run up a hill.They might add some zing in terms of two additional brake/acceleration zones, but they also take a way a LOT of zing by eliminating the Mulsanne kink, which was an incredible corner. The long straight is a thing of the past. Only the Nurburgring's is left.
- 11,802
- Marin County
True, but in retrospect it's been gone since the late 70's so it's not like it's been a recent thing. And at the same time, the Ring's top class ATM is GT3, and since GT's are geared with only a 180mph (roughly) top speed it's not in danger of being broken up. Plus it has a massive run up a hill.
The kink was still around in 1989
- 9,554
- Vermont
- catamount39
Alright but still. It's been a long time.
- 11,802
- Marin County
I mean, the corner is still physically there, it's just that it's more or less part of the second chicane, so it's not really a kink anymore.
edit: I think this is probably too much discussion that's only tenuously related to the Ford GT.
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- 15,381
- TRAPPIST-1g
- ProjectWHaT
Ford GT concept shown at the Detroit Auto Show having problems starting up. Obviously, it's only a concept so it doesn't matter if it has these problems, but its still cool to see it out and about.
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