Formula 1 Eni Magyar Nagydíj 2012

[Blaze_409]

I never thought I would say this but I want to see Hamilton winning.

 

[CarolinaBlue704]

If the tires were not so fragile Hamilton would be in strong contention for the championship as his driving style is better suited to the tougher tires

I disagree. Hamilton was just leading the championship a few races ago after winning in Canada. McLaren's screw-ups and Hamilton's two recent DNFs are the reason he's basically out of the championship picture. Not the tires.

 

[FranciscoJR]

You have to make ur car work around the tires, period. You dont need to have the fastest car which btw i trully believe RedBull is the one to beat but if your car doesnt have the right setting to make the best use of the car, forget about it. Sauber proves to be the best car in terms of tires but team strategy just doesnt work at all and its drivers are still learning, no experience. Ferrari is doing something that others are struggling now, they understand the tires better now and have their car work better with the tires in mind. Alonsi has said that the car is 2 to 3 seconds faster and i trully believe it is. This could turn out to be another Ferrari and brigestone of the past, Ferrari/Pirelli. The teams better watch out.

 

[Ardius]

When I began following racing in the 50's, and since then, it is almost universal among drivers and motor racing correspondents that Juan Manuel Fangio has been held in the highest esteem. That was due not only to his pace and winning statistics, but also to his gentlemanly qualities, approach to safety and to the respect in which he held other drivers and spectators. As a consequence, he has been universally admired. (I have admired Jackie Stewart for these same reasons.)

Today, Fernando Alonso alone approaches that lofty standard. He does not push other drivers off the track like Schumacher, etc., and he does not whine and whimper into early retirements like Hamilton. He is truly today's most complete F1 driver. With his consistency of pace and finishing, and most of all in the calmness and strength of character he exhibits, he stands like a giant among pygmies, or a lion amongst jackals. But of course, as the great Graham Hill once ruefully remarked, it's always possible for a racer to go "from a gentleman to a twit in a fifth of a second".

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

Yes, gentleman that man:





Alonso is easily the best driver out there today. But a gentleman?

It is quite clear that Alonso is at the peak of his powers at the moment. He has matured as a person and now have the experience so judge his actions to perfection. He also doesnt seem to make any mistakes whatsoever anymore. When it comes to raw talent however I would rank the current drivers thus;
1. Räikkönen
2. Vettel
3. Alonso
4. Hamilton
5. Grosjean

And as complete racers;
1. Alonso
2. Räikkönen
3. Button
4. Hamilton
5. Vettel

I'd say:

Outright speed:
1. Vettel
2. Raikkonen
3. Alonso
4. Hamilton
5. Maldonado

Most complete package:
1. Alonso
2. Schumacher
3. Vettel
4. Button
5. Glock

 

[albteman015]

That ^ is why as a ferrari fan. I was very skeptical at first with him joining the team. Everything he does is for personal gain rather then for the team. Considering what he has done to Massa I was right but no one can take away his almost perfect racecraft.

 

[Ra1kkoneN]

I still find it strange to believe Ferrari kind of got rid of Raikkonen on the way they did it. It clearly didn't work out between them. I remember Raikkonen looked very bad in 2009, but I still believe they favoured Massa above Raikkonen in 2008 and 2009. After Massa's accident Raikkonen seemed to get much better results than before the accident happened. But I suppose it will always be a mystery what really happened at Ferrari in those times.

 

[Bye Ya]

Yes, gentleman that man:





Alonso is easily the best driver out there today. But a gentleman?

You act as if both incidents were unprovoked. Lewis was clearly a saint there, along with Petrov...?

 

[Ardius]

Does a gentleman react like that? I didn't suggest it was unprovoked, but I certainly don't consider a driver who flaps his hands about everytime he gets held up and who doesn't think twice about "getting his own back" a "gentleman".

Of the current drivers, I'd only consider Kovalainen and Button as gentlemen just because you almost never see these two getting angry on track and they've rarely ever pulled a dirty move. Maybe Pedro De La Rosa as well just because he's generally a nice man anyway.

I didn't even use Alonso's brake testing on Coulthard.

 

[PeterJB]

Does a gentleman react like that? I didn't suggest it was unprovoked, but I certainly don't consider a driver who flaps his hands about everytime he gets held up and who doesn't think twice about "getting his own back" a "gentleman".

Of the current drivers, I'd only consider Kovalainen and Button as gentlemen just because you almost never see these two getting angry on track and they've rarely ever pulled a dirty move. Maybe Pedro De La Rosa as well just because he's generally a nice man anyway.

I didn't even use Alonso's brake testing on Coulthard.

And let us not forget crash-gate either.

 

[Bye Ya]

Does a gentleman react like that? I didn't suggest it was unprovoked, but I certainly don't consider a driver who flaps his hands about everytime he gets held up and doesn't think twice about "getting his own back" a "gentleman".

Of the current drivers, I'd only consider Kovalainen and Button as gentlemen just because you almost never see these two getting angry on track and they've rarely ever pulled a dirty move.

I didn't even use Alonso's brake testing on Coulthard.

Alonso's run at the championship ended in Abu Dhabi. We're not talking about any other ordinary, casual race. And he was being blocked by Petrov, who finished 13th?

And how is Lewis blocking Alonso on track to secure pole for himself really any different? I wouldn't call that gentleman behaviour in the slightest.


Crashgate was Briatore's doing, not Alonso's. He drove a perfectly legitimate race with or without the incident.

 

[gorsad]

Alonso's run at the championship ended in Abu Dhabi. We're not talking about any other ordinary, casual race. And he was being blocked by Petrov, who finished 13th?

Petrov finished 6th in that race, 1 place ahead of Alonso. Sure it potentially lost him the championship but Petrov had every right to fight for that position.

 

[Bye Ya]

Petrov finished 6th in that race, 1 place ahead of Alonso. Sure it potentially lost him the championship but Petrov had every right to fight for that position.

And Alonso had every right to be more frustrated than usual in the moment. After the race he spoke about the situation differently.

 

[Ardius]

Hamilton isn't a gentleman either, so what? That doesn't excuse Alonso from retaliating. A gentleman takes such things in their stride without having to resort to revenge.

While Alonso is certainly not the dirtiest driver out there, he can be quite ruthless and he doesn't go out of his way to be nice. He really doesn't express the the charateristics of a "gentleman" to me, and I reckon he really doesn't care to.
Not that it matters really, you don't need to be nice to good. The only place that matters is for the fans and sponsors.

I'm not trying to criticise Alonso here as I'm actually a fan of his on the track. But I can't agree with the comments that he's an example of a gentleman.

 

[Bye Ya]

The bias against him is what I don't get, and the way that people go about showing it with examples that have other drivers doing necessarily the very same thing.

 

[Ardius]

No one compared with Hamilton. Only you decided to take that one and run with it.

 

[Bye Ya]

No one compared with Hamilton. Only you decided to take that one and run with it.

It's not just that. Petrov may have been 6th in the race, but when it is the very last race of the season and you yourself (Petrov) are not even going to finish top 10 in the championship, yet you are blocking the guy who is challenging for the title, there's bias there if people say he had no reason to be angry at the guy. And there's also bias there to take a situation like hand waving and make a big deal out of it.

 

[SilverArrow]

It's not just that. Petrov may have been 6th in the race, but when it is the very last race of the season and you yourself (Petrov) are not even going to finish top 10 in the championship, yet you are blocking the guy who is challenging for the title, there's bias there if people say he had no reason to be angry at the guy. And there's also bias there to take a situation like hand waving and make a big deal out of it.

Your seriously suggesting in a RACE, Petrov should have let Alonso past?

 

[mu22stang]

I smell a British nose up in the air...

Plenty of "gentlemen" have flipped someone off in such frustrating circumstances. Was it right? Did it take away his status of "gentlemen", assuming he even had it or wanted it?

Who cares?

Even as Alonso leaves (only just enough) room for another driver to pass, he doesn't do it because of class. It's the same with the MAS pit lane maneuver. ALO passed him because MAS wasn't showing any sense of urgency. "This is F1, Felipe!" is probably what was in his mind as he swerved around. I doubt he was thinking, "I'm an a** hole and have no class. Get out of my way!"

These are grown men fighting for a World Championship, not penguins discussing the main course at a dinner party.

 

[Bye Ya]

Your seriously suggesting in a RACE, Petrov should have let Alonso past?

It would have been the gentleman thing to do. No, but there's no justifiable reason to cast Alonso in a bad light because the 12th place in the championship driver blocked him on more than one occasion and he waved his hands at him in frustration.

 

[SilverArrow]

It would have been the gentleman thing to do. No, but there's no justifiable reason to cast Alonso in a bad light because the 12th place in the championship driver blocked him on more than one occasion and he waved his hands at him in frustration.

I'm not trying to cast him in a bad light, it's one of few times that season he actually took his frustration out on someone. But there is no way in hell Petrov should have let him through, if he did he would have lost his race seat on the spot. I can't even think of a time or what would be going through someone's mind if they did that.

 

[Bye Ya]

I don't think he should have let him through. I'm just saying that given their respective positions in that championship, Alonso was understandably even more frustrated at being held up by a midfield car.

 

[Ardius]

It's not just that. Petrov may have been 6th in the race, but when it is the very last race of the season and you yourself (Petrov) are not even going to finish top 10 in the championship, yet you are blocking the guy who is challenging for the title, there's bias there if people say he had no reason to be angry at the guy. And there's also bias there to take a situation like hand waving and make a big deal out of it.

I used that more as an example of Alonso and his hand-waving antics rather than the exact circumstances. I couldn't find any videos of him doing it elsewhere but he certainly has done it a lot.

Point is, he's hardly a gentleman. Dotini went as far as praising his calmness and referring to Graham Hill...I personally think this is way over the top all things considered. The above examples certainly don't show a level of calmness. Of course its perfectly understandable to be frustrated with Petrov - but if we're talking about someone is so calm and such a gentleman I just don't see it in Alonso.

I smell a British nose up in the air...

Plenty of "gentlemen" have flipped someone off in such frustrating circumstances. Was it right? Did it take away his status of "gentlemen", assuming he even had it or wanted it?

Who cares?

These are grown men fighting for a World Championship, not penguins discussing the main course at a dinner party.

Indeed, which is why its not a negative thing for Alonso to not be a gentleman. It really doesn't matter for a racing driver. But Dotini did decide to praise Alonso in this fashion.
How dare I question the praise of Fernando Alonso, eh?

 

[CarolinaBlue704]

That ^ is why as a ferrari fan. I was very skeptical at first with him joining the team. Everything he does is for personal gain rather then for the team. Considering what he has done to Massa I was right but no one can take away his almost perfect racecraft.

What has Alonso done to Massa? Did he threaten to break Massa's legs if he dares to go out and race well? And please don't bring up Hockenheim, because Massa performed just as good during the 2nd half of 2010 as he did in the 1st half.

 

[Blaze_409]

I thought I should add my 2 cents.

No drivers made it to F1 the pinnacle of motorsport being a "gentleman"...

 

[TyrrellRacing]

For all we know two of the best drivers on the grid are sat in Force India's. Come to think of it, I can't remember any mistakes at all this season. Maybe Hulkenburg at the end of the British GP but apart from that ... Seriously hope either FI improve their car or they get a good seat as I feel they are largely being overlooked.

Alonso is the best driver on the grid in my opinion. The only driver on the grid consistently beating his team mate and despite what you may say, Massa is still a good driver. Doesn't mean I like him though and I certainly wouldn't refer to him as a gentleman.

I thought I should add my 2 cents.

No drivers made it to F1 the pinnacle of motorsport being a "gentleman"...

Have to disagree there, unless you're only referring to the current line up. Couldn't really argue as I haven't followed each individual step of the drivers today although I'm finding it hard to see Di Resta, Perez and Karthikeyan among others forcefully getting into the sport.

 

[Hun200kmh]

A bit OT, but related to the ongoing discussion ... and very interesting to read:

The big divide
http://thef1times.com/news/display/06511

 

[Peasantslayer]

For all we know two of the best drivers on the grid are sat in Force India's. Come to think of it, I can't remember any mistakes at all this season. Maybe Hulkenburg at the end of the British GP but apart from that ... Seriously hope either FI improve their car or they get a good seat as I feel they are largely being overlooked.

People forget that these drivers are roughly the best 24 for the job out of 7 billion people. If a driver is good enough to get into F1 then success from then on is down to luck, whether the car suits a driver and how good the team/car is.

 

[Blaze_409]

Thats Alonso for you. He will not tolerate a second driver who can hand his own a*$ to him .
Not that any joe can take it to Alonso but the Hamilton debacle was revealing of his personality.

 

[Blaze_409]

double

 

[RX-7_FD3S]

That ^ is why as a ferrari fan. I was very skeptical at first with him joining the team. Everything he does is for personal gain rather then for the team. Considering what he has done to Massa I was right but no one can take away his almost perfect racecraft.

I dont agree, Alonso is loved by all his team, except maybe his teammate, and I never saw any bad comments about Alonso by someone from his team, except during the Mclaren area but that's because Mclaren was supporting Hamilton. I agree that asking Ferrari to tell Massa to let him pass was a bad move and I dont like this kind of stuff. However he's a great driver and all the team is behind him, otherwise he wouldnt have 22 race in the points, specialy since he didnt and probably still dont have the best car of the pack.

I'm not an Alonso fan, I love the Mclaren boys but still you just can't skip what Alonso is achieving this year. It's trully amazing.